I have struggled with releasing the Aussie ring for the last time. I have tried EVERYTHING that has been suggested (ad nauseum) for knot placement and mast turning etc. etc. etc. I am looking for the final solution and I'm thinking that is........ <Drumroll> A quick release snap shackle (Wichards 2 3/4" page 73 in the latest Murrays catalog).
My thinking is, there have been times when I just have to get that sail down fast and thus far I have been successful when I needed it most. I want this "quick release" as an insurance policy for those times when I want it down and I want it down N-O-W. Anybody tried putting one of these between the ring and the sail before? I'm picturing a lead line running down the mast with EMERGENCY written on a tab at the bottom. Haven't you had times when you want that sail down ASAP?

Thoughts?
Greg

Did you try using a regular shackle and getting rid of the twist shackle? This turns the ring fore and aft, naturally unhooked. To hook it you rotate the mast into the ring and pull the sail/ring down onto the hook. To unhook you simply lift the ring and POP, it's off. It's a very cheap and simple thing to try. It works perfectly for me. Never ever a failure, up or down - not once, not ever. Tampa is the lightning capital of the world and getting a sail down quick is a way of life. "Instant down" is a must.

I use the same trick for some years, works perfect

This is what works for me, for both the N6.0na and N20.

I use the set up that has the twist shackle, and the little hoop to tie the halyard to on top of the ring.

Tie the halyard to the little hoop using two half hitches. This is about as compact a knot as you can get, and I've not had any problem with the knot letting go. Any attempt to use a bowline has not worked - the knot simply gets in the way.

The sail raises and hooks fine. To get it down, I have found that it helps immensely to have somebody hold the clew of the main to the side opposite of the way you are rotating the mast. Sometimes you can time it to rotate the mast as the sail is swaying to that side, but it is much easier if somebody simply holds the clew of the sail.

When we first got the N20, it had the halyard ring with the little hoop in the ring and offset. It was virtually impossible to lock and unlock the sail - it was worse than my old Hobie-18, and I consider that to be the Grandaddy of PITA mainsail raising and lowering. Replacing the setup to the above mentioned rig makes this an almost one-person and fail-safe operation, lots less cussing.

Greg,

What is the diameter of your ring?
Originally I had a 2" ring (Nacra F18, 2005), and it was really difficult to release the main. I also tried everything, finally I changed the ring to an older style one, diameter 3", and it is ok.

I'm using the Murrays Aussie Ring with the loop in the inside of the large ring offset (see picture attached). The inside diameter is 2 1/8 inches.

I'm THIS close to rigging a Bosun's chair to hoist myself up to release the bleedin' sail!!!

Please pardon the colorful language.

Greg

Sorry for pointing this out Greg - but you've got the ring rigged wrong!

The halyard should pass through the offset eye, then tie a figure of eight stopper knot in it. The shackle goes onto the headboard of your mainsail with the knot facing AWAY from the mast.

You'll find that rigged this way it'll work as designed.

Just to be sure everyone understands the process:

1. Attach halyard ring to top of sail with knot facing away from mast
2. Pull the sail up until you hear/feel the ring latch onto the hook
3. Pull the sail down so that it is locked on the hook before attaching the downhaul

To unhook:
1. Remove the downhaul (optional but it makes the process easier IMO)
2. Pull the sail up hard while the boat is head to wind
3. Rotate the mast as far as possible (experiment to find which way unhooks the halyard easiest)
4. Release the halyard while holding the mast rotated
5. Pull down on the sail while still holding the mast rotated
6. Once the sail starts to move you can let the mast centre itself.

Just add something to jalani’s post if you pull the halyard from the mast base in the direction that the mast must be rotated to release the sail there is no chance of it rehooking because it is already rotated.

Matt

Except that on most NACRAs and Prindles the halyard exits the mast and goes through a block attached to the crossbeam, essentially the angle you pull from has no effect on the mast rotation.

I don't believe I've ever used the type of ring shown, so perhaps I'm completly wrong but I suspect the idea is that the offset internal hoop is used to force the ring over to one side. In other words, since the hook is on one side of the mast, the idea is to get the ring shifted over to that side of the mast to make it easier to hook. That said, when you initially set the thing up, you have to make sure that when the shackle is connected to the sail and the knot is facing away from the mast, the ring will be forced to the hook side of the mast (i.e. the knot faces away from the mast and is on the non-hook side of the mast). Again, I've never used this ring, but this would be my assumption. Personally, I use a plain ring with just a small hoop on top for the halyard, the shackle is not welded to the ring- it works fine on my TheMightyHobie18 and H17. I think the biggest trick to getting the sail down is 1) make sure the boat is into the wind. 2) make sure you keep the mast rotated until the ring is below the hook.

sm

I have never tried it, and have not had much trouble with my sail either. I was just thinking this through, and I think it is a bad idea. once down the sail would not go back up (you might jiggle the ring loose but maybe not and that was the problem you started with) the only emergency I can think of is a violent storm coming in fast and you want to drop the sail, however a gentle capsize might work too or just pulling every flattening string on the boat. So I would learn to wiggle jiggle and finesse your ring to get your sail down. I would hate to be in the ocean with a sail on the deck and no way to hoist it back up. (without capsizing the boat)

Let's recap.
So far, I've been told.........
1. Tie as small a Bowline knot as possible. The Nacra Handbook recommends this one.
2. Tie two half hitches.
3. Tie a figure 8 stopper knot.

Jalani, I have NO PROBLEM being told what I'm doing is wrong. I just don't see what type of knot I use to connect it will make a difference unless it interfers with the shiv which it doesn't. Also with this diameter halyard and the size of the hole on the ring I think a stopper knot will pull right through. (maybe not.) I'd love to see a picture, if anyone has one.
I really appreciate the help beating this into my brain guys. It's not my ONLY problem but it's my current one.

Greg
P.S. I agree that using the Emergency Blow approach would leave you without a method of re-hoisting and that's bad.

>Greg
>P.S. I agree that using the Emergency Blow approach would
>leave you without a method of re-hoisting and that's bad.

Not that I think using the quick-release is a good method (personally, I'd just get the hook working right), but if you did use it, you'd have thin lanyard running up the mast to your snap shackle. If you did emergency release the sail, you would just use the lanyard to pull the ring down - of course you'd still have to get the ring off the hook before doing this <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

sm

Greg, I agree that intuitively it shouldn't matter which knot you use if it doesn't interfere with the sheave BUT in practice I've found that it DOES matter. I used to use a small bowline and had no end of problems (this was with a Tornado). Then Reg White told me to use a stopper instead. Problem solved!! Ever since I've used the same setup on all my cats and never had any issue with it.

Thinking about it, I guess that because the halyard exits the ring on one side (nearest the mast) it forces the ring to fall AWAY from the mast more readily.....

Have had no problem hooking or releasing the main on TheMightyHobie18 or H20 AFTER we started using Matt Miller's technique as described

"Also, be sure that the knot tied to the ring is very low profile. A long bowline knot will hit the mast head before the ring gets to the hook. If the ring has a small loop at the top... The line should be passed through the loop and a small knot tied. The knot (when ring and shackle are afixed to the sail) should be facing the mast. This tilts the ring closer to the mast. Then (before attaching halyard shackle to the sail) spin the haylard 3 or 4 times clockwise (looking down on the shackle). This "pre-loads" the halyard line and causes the ring to swing back towards the hook. Keep the boat into the wind and hoist. Should lock easily. To release... fully release the downhaul and outhaul. Partially feed the sail up the luff track. Hoist with the halyard to the top till it stops, hold... rotate the aft of the mast base to starboard, hold the mast rotated, ease the halyard a few feet before releasing the mast. Lower the sail."

I was having a hard time getting my ring to come off the hook lately. So I have tried a bunch of things with the knots. I like the double hitch with stopper knot thingy the best, which is what the previous owner had setup. I think my whole problem was the friction created by the luff rope and the battens and not the knot to begin with. Once I McLubed the luff and the slot of the mast it was much better. The downhaul even works now!

You are in uncharted territory for most users (including myself) with that Aussie ring...but I agree that the knot you have on there now is probably working against you. I'm telling you, although they all do have some tricks, the stock Nacra hook and ring works well. From my 6.0NA to the three I20's I've frequented to my F18 (same system on all), I've never had to try more than three times to get the sail unhooked each time (usually no more than two attempts).

Two things I think you should try: A) watch what is happening with the ring and hook with a pair of binoculars or B) get an onsite opinion from someone who's likely dealt with the same system for a while.

John,
I'm giving it a try tomorrow with the stopper knot. I'm also bringing binoculars so I can watch what is going on "up there". If it works, you'll be my new best friend. I'm coming over to the UK this fall and the first few pints are on me!
Has anyone else noticed the number of contradictory ways this has been explained. Matt Millers instructions say the knot should face the mast. All the others say face away from the mast. I've never heard the twisting of the halyard mentioned before.

HOW ABOUT AN ELECTRO-MAGNET THAT RUNS ON A TRACK WITH A REMOTE CONTROL TO RELEASE IT?

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Seriously, Thanks guys for all your suggestions. I'll keep trying and report back what finally works.
Greg

The binocs are a great idea, I've done that a bunch to see what's up.

On the NACRAs the hook is centered over the track (unlike the Hobies that are off to one side), and I found that the rings with the loop inside and offset constantly jammed when trying to raise the sail because invariably the halyard would end up on the opposite side of the hook from the offset loop (if that makes any sense), and it would just jam and not hook. Moving to the ring with the loop centered and on top has solved that - using the two half hitches makes it irrelevant as to what way the knot is facing, although a stop knot would make things more compact.

Bottom line - you may end up trying elements of all the suggestions to come up with what works for you and your boat.

Also, make sure the sheaves are in good shape, and that your halyard is not of stretchy material.

I've used the Fig of 8 knot as per John on all my boats and it works fine, but I've found that on the 17 I dont have to have a fig8 knot.

The reason a Fig of 8 helps (when the knot is to the back) is that when you pull the haylard, the ring not only lifts, but the top of the ring is actually pulled away from the mast as the rope going tight pulls THRU the eye and not up.

Difficult to accuratly explian, but the F8 know will help.





Another tip is to also bend the hook a little at the tip to port or Stbd and then turn the mast the other way as this also makes it ewasier to get off.



Another tip as above is to pull down on the clew at the same time to assist the hook coming off..



also, another top, is the hook at the top of the mast too long (compare with others before changing)