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Bowsprit that pivots #86245
10/06/06 11:23 AM
10/06/06 11:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline OP
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waterbug_wpb  Offline OP
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Naples, FL
Explain the advantage of this on larger cats/monos. The sprit pivots so that the clew is more to windward of the centerline of the boat, correct?

Will this affect sail trim or cut of the sail? Will it affect the trim of the other sails that would be up at the time?

Is this setup designed for more speed, deeper angle, or both?


Jay

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Re: Bowsprit that pivots [Re: waterbug_wpb] #86246
10/06/06 12:25 PM
10/06/06 12:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
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Keith  Offline
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Pivoting the bowsprit to windward allows deeper angles at a better speed, particularly in lighter or heavier air (where there is less benefit from sailing hot angles).

Pivoting the bowsprit to leeward allows the spin to flown at higher angles in lighter air.

Re: Bowsprit that pivots [Re: waterbug_wpb] #86247
10/06/06 12:25 PM
10/06/06 12:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 195
Straight Outta Hell
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Boudicca Offline
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Straight Outta Hell
It would help as you build apparent wind, you can run deeper.

I think.


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Re: Bowsprit that pivots [Re: waterbug_wpb] #86248
10/06/06 02:42 PM
10/06/06 02:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Besides the already mentioned advantages of pivoting to windward to sail deeper angles downwind, pivoting to leeward increases the airflow between mainsail and headsail, providing more power.


Luiz
Re: Bowsprit that pivots [Re: Luiz] #86249
10/09/06 03:39 PM
10/09/06 03:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline OP
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waterbug_wpb  Offline OP
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Naples, FL
So, why don't beachcats have pivoting poles?


Jay

Re: Bowsprit that pivots [Re: waterbug_wpb] #86250
10/09/06 03:58 PM
10/09/06 03:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 133
The Netherlands
Kennethsf Offline
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The Netherlands
I had the same question a couple of months ago[do a search], the general[?] openion on this forum was that the time for adjusting is not compensatet by the fact that you can run deeper

Re: Bowsprit that pivots [Re: waterbug_wpb] #86251
10/09/06 05:08 PM
10/09/06 05:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 975
South Louisiana, USA
Clayton Offline
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Clayton  Offline
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South Louisiana, USA
Don't you have enough to do already? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We've discussed this also on the Stiletto forum. The top performers agree that the time spending trying to adjust the pole is well overcome by keeping the sail in trim and going fast for the angles you can sail. The difference in speed is not worth the effort. Of course there are/will be those that will dis-agree but in our class they are not out in front! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

JMO

Clayton

P.S. I have neither, the spin and reacher flies off the bridle... still trying to catch up!

Re: Bowsprit that pivots [Re: Clayton] #86252
10/09/06 05:37 PM
10/09/06 05:37 PM

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On the big boat we set the pole angle 90 degrees to the apparent wind. This means if you start bringing the pole back you are going to have to let your apparent wind go. Am I missing something here? I could never see the point in that, unless it was very light wind. Like 0-1 beaufort, in which case you might argue for wing on wing over pole adjustment.

Matt

Re: Bowsprit that pivots [Re: ] #86253
10/10/06 08:45 AM
10/10/06 08:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
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Keith  Offline
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Annapolis,MD
Again, where I have seen this mentioned with people actually working out a system is with the Corsair/Farrier tris.

They find that when racing against keel boats in the light and heavy stuff the keel boats flying symmetrical spins beat them.

In the light air the tris with asymms are sailing faster, but not fast enough to justify the extra distance, and the keel boats just straight line the course.

In the heavy air, you start to bump up against the speed capabilities of the boat making the extra distance just extra distance, and again it's better just to run deep.

Your choices are to carry a symmetrical spin in addition to the asymm sail, which most fly from the bows without a traditional pole, or rig lines to either articulate the pole to windward or leeward or move the tack of the asymmetrical sail between the pole and the windward or leeward bow.

You can also fly an symmetrical spin much higher if the tack is let off. On bigger cats or tris the sail might even be tacked to the leeward hull for light condition upwind work.

Some of this might be worth trying for distance racing, but for the conditions most people race in for bouys you're most likely going to be faster with the asymm used as always.


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