even using bungee- rudder expensive, crossbar expensive, tiller extension expensive, rudder gudgeon expesive, tearing transom out of one hull expensive.
I think the mainsheet system can take the strain. The sheeting in of the main should turn the boat to windward (ideally, of course)

I wasn't thinking of a direct pull, it would have to go back to the transom with a simple stopper that only allowed the rope to be pulled far enough to turn the rudder so that there was no strain on the items you mentioned.
regards

Those are not the kind of shackle that releases under load. Here is the type you need. http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d6000/e4603.asp

I'm not sure about these but they look like they would work also. http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d6000/e4603.asp

Either one could be really hard to release in a life threatening situation.

Personally I used my chicken line as my safety line. We always hooked in after every tack or jibe. You are unhooked on each tack and jibe which is somewhat dangerous in an ocean race.

Ask Mike Beurlien about the time he had to swim a couple miles to shore during the W1000. That had to be fun. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Mike Hill
www.stlouiscats.com

Something you may want to consider is a quick release based on the Skydiving system. This system is very reliable and releases easily. It utilises a quick release pad ( to avoid accidental disconnects ) and can be activated from any attitude.

Here is a very detailed explanation http://www.dropzone.com/gear/articles/The3RingWhatItIsAndHowIt.shtml

I am very familiar with it and it has saved my skin on more than one occasion.

We release them all the time under large loads, though not under water. They are easy because all you do is pull the lanyard. We also have the other type of shackle you mention on the spin head, but you need a marlin spike to release them.

So based on the feedback there are 3 options I see.

1. Nothing. Hope you can hold on to a line or swim, but you won’t break your back. You could easily dislocate your shoulder.
2. A short tether that keeps you so close to the boat that you can pull yourself back on if you fall off. It would need to have a good quick release.
3. A long tether that pays out so you have a second to “get ready to water ski.” It would need to have a good quick release.

I mostly sail solo. TheMightyHobie18 and viva 27. This is a subject that concerns me greatly. I've been dumped several times but luckly always with crew. When I'm solo these are some of the things I've tried.

1. a light bunge that will hold the helm over. no hands on the tiller the boat will round up or down. obviously there is a draw back there.

2. a big wave surfboard leash. with a quick release pin. draw back is it clutters the deck. You will be dragged. don't where the cuff on your foot you will drown.

3. spinlock harness system. v27, probally the safest cumbersome to move about the deck. i needed to rig "runners" lines port and star to clip into to get forward and aft.

4. In a jam. Heavy seas "Sea of Cortez" Tie your self to the boat useing a french bowline around you and your shoulders with a slip knot to the boat.

I know all of these have drawbacks. I'm very intersested in this conversation and ideas.

story: sorry "gary" we were out on the viva 27 ripping along about 15 kts under reacher. then spash no gary. by the time i got the reacher dowsed and the boat turn and back up wind to gary almost 15 min had gone by. I threw gary a line i got him to the side of the boat. A little bit of hypo had already set in and it very difficult to get back on the boat.

Many lessons were learned that day. Here's are a few of the main ones.

1. always dress for full imersion in the elements.
2. have a very well thought out plan.
3. be aware at how fast our boats really are. seconds mean a very long distance to back track to.

Lets all stay safe out there.

I have a quick release on my safety line and it can hang up.
If you want to do it right, use this kind.



And here is the best one I've seen so far:


Kite surfing is where to look for these things.

Thanks for retrieving me Brad, but since you brought it up I should say that you have fallen off of my boat twice as many times as I have fallen off of yours.
GARY <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Ok, I just remembered one day I was sailing and I had this idea. I kind of forgot about it until 30 seconds ago.

I was thinking of a canister mounted on the rear beam with coiled stretchy and floating line in it. In the middle of the line there is a sea anchor. The rest of the line is feed through the sea anchor hole and is attached to an end cap for the canister. You are attached to the end cap by some line (with a quick release) as you fall off the canister opens pulling out some line then the sea anchor then some more line.

What do you guys think?

We are looking at small amounts of money and 2 holes in the beam

Again my boat rounds up very quickly up or down so I am not as afraid as most of you of being dragged for an extended period.

Matt

In fact i think i fell off your boat twice in the same sail once. and thanks for coming back to get me. POINT MADE

We used to use a similar quick release to release our Hang gliders from the tow trailor and also from the towline during tow. They were an excellent choice for that application as the towlines were always under a positive and one directional strain. Actually as time progressed the rings evolved into strings/small webbing. My experience with this concept goes back to the early 90's so I am not sure what is used now. We also had a quick (weak link) release which was a piece of string that was designed to break at a certain strain, to prevent the tow rpe from breaking the glider from pulling too hard. It is a system which has to be seen to construct..

I am not sure that this system would be appropriate to a sailboat situation as the tether is never under strain till you need it, and the strain could come from any direction whilst sailing as you are always running around diving under the boom to the other side hooking trapwires, grabbing stuff. When you fall off there is nothing to say that you would be lined up properly as you might end up with your feet pointing at the boat or away or sideways. Also the rings would be wide open to getting tangled in things and the quick release pad system that I recall was simply a piece of Velcro. Since positive strain had to be on it to verify that it was hooked up properly and it was a finicky thing to set up each time I suspect that with cold fingers it would be a bear to install while sailing. Also if the release was close to your body it could prevent the rings from flipping to release, so you would have to have it away from the body ad then what happens if you are being hauled feet towards the boat? You would not be able to reach the release unless you had a long string which would then create problems with it catching on stuff whilst sailing an accidentally releasing whe you least expect it. Since the release is a string it could get hooked in something whilst sailing and release and you would never know till you needed it <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

It seems to me that no matter what idea you run with there is going to be logistic problems.

I am being the devil's advocate here and really I am not familiar with the latest versions of this release.

I thought of using a horse catch as a release but the manufacturing tolerances on them is not very high. We used them initially on the gliders but got rid of them quickly as they were un reliable.

Most sail shops have quick release shackles with a pin on them attached to a string. They seemed like a good possibility. They were discussed in another thread by Captaindave in the 14/16 forum.

Maybe a remote might be an idea <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. When you fall off you hit the remote and it releases a sea anchor.

Thanks everyone for some great information based on experience. I've been using the snap shackle on my mainsheet for three years and like it. Just have to remember to unhook it when coming into the beach and jumping off ha ha. That always makes quality entertainment for the shorebirds. With what I've seen here I will definately upgrade to the better snap shackle. The loads on the A-CAT are pretty low compared to you guys on the BAHBs (big butt heavy boats)so no problems so far with this set up.

Gary - I will be in SoCal Nov 17,18,19 and I think I should examine your system whilst sailing about the Pacific ocean, eh?

Brad - Did I meet you at the Statue of Liberty race this summer? Gary will probably be too busy for sailing so maybe we should take your Viva out for a spin, eh?

Hit me with a PM if interested. Thanks. Ed

Have you fallen off the boat while hooked into the mainsheet? If so, what happened? Where is the shackle connected to? Your spreader bar?

My experience with tethering:

I typically use a chicken line with Prusiking knots, and clip to them with a snap shackle lashed to my harness. In a capsize, the cheap 1/8" line failed at the lark's foot knot where it connected to my harness spreader bar, so I ended up disoriented in the water anyway. Thankfully, the skipper at the time had the presense of mind to grab the mainsheet and swim a few feet and grab me before we were separated.

I've noticed that small diameter line has a tendency to *NOT* release from snap shackles under load, because it can get fouled on the fat tip of the release arm of the snap shackle. For this reason, I plan to fair the arms of snap shackles, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

Instead of standard Prusik knot, I use a helical knot: Just wrap the small line around the large 5 times and secure the ends with a bowline. This knot is secure enough that climbers use it. It is also captive so it cannot come off (unlike the standard Prusik) and is easily repositioned when load is removed (unlike the Prusik). The disadvantage is that it moves so easily when there is no load that it tends to wash toward the back of the boat.

Especially hiking downwind, with one foot in the rear strap, and with the helical knot adjusted to pull aft, and the trapeeze and spin sheet pulling forward, the security is amazing. I've had a rogue wave wash completely over me and sweep the skipper (sitting forward of the rear beam) overboard.

--

I used life lines a bit in the Great Texas 300. These are tubular webbing with an internal bungee to take up some slack, carabeener at one end, and snap shackle at the other. The carabeener is attached to a center hiking strap attached to the tramp. These work suprisingly well as long as the skipper and crew don't change positions, and you don't get any lines wrapped around your body. They must be long enough to go out on the wire (7' stretched). Frankly, I'd feel more secure clipped to the main sheet/traveller, but that's not an option for the crew.

--

On the GT300 boat, the skipper used standard Prusiking knots with small caribeener on the end, which we clipped to the trapeze *ring* (not to ourselves). This felt very secure, and when 1 was on the wire, he could use one forward and one aft for added security. When two were on the wire, we could use crossing lines to secure us as a pair. It worked very well, but you must remember to release them before going in. The long Prusik knots also made it possible to secure oneself when not on the wire, though it is ackward to escape during a capsize. I definitely agree that one should only be connected to the boat with a single snap shackle (or similar), which can release easily under load. A problem with clips on the Prussik knots is that they tend to beat up the boat when not in use, unless you clip them to something.

--

My personal opinion is that I will only use lifelines when I'm in a distance race sailing far from any chance of rescue, or if the water is too cold to survive immersion indefinitely. (I dress for immersion, and carry a VHF, GPS, flares, and drinking water on my person.)

Hi Matt. What happened? In heavy air crashes its hard to remember what happened between the "oh shucks" I'm going to crash and finding myself in the water but in the end I simply did not get far away from the boat. Other than the nuisances mentioned below I've never felt retricted or endangered by using this method.

I've had some pretty good "get offs" with this set up. A couple of pithpoles, a high side (upwind capsize) when a forestay broke and a couple of slow and easy wild thing gone too far roll overs. I have the ring of the shackle on the sheet and clip the opening end to the shoulder strap of my PFD. After a capsize I make sure I have a good grip on the boat and then I release.

I tried the snap shackle down by the spreader bar but it kept the sheet too close to the hook for my liking and too much tangling with the feet. Up high on the shoulder strap is better for me at keeping it out of the hook but it still finds its way there sometimes. I check that the hook is clear pretty often. The sheet does tend to get wrapped aropund the feet more often than without the shakle, something else to get used to and keep clear. One good thing is that even if I drop it the sheet is always with me as I move around the boat.

With regard to Prusik knots and clips, David Lennard came up with a system to use the prusik knot but use a short lanyard with a stopper ball on the end of it on your spreader harness. Instead of a clip, you just slip the open loop of the prusik over the stopper ball and put a little tension on it. They stay in place remarkably well and are easy to get out of even under tension.

Our version of this is to tie the short lanyards with stopper balls to the trap ring. Downside is that there is more crap hanging off the trap gear.

I've used a surfboard leg rope ankle strap attached to the traveller rope, I can release the ankle strap velcro under load and the cat ends up capsized when I fall off. Tricky to remain untangled while tacking and gybing. I sail a one up, light weight, unspinnakered cat. Falling off the side and pulling the traveller on may have no effect on aircraft carrier type cats.

Darryn
Mosquito
1704

Here s a link to a Prusik knot.

http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/prusik.htm

I used this at Jake's suggestion and it works really well. I tied the stopper ball to the trap ring rather than on my harness then put the ball through the loop of line that was attached to the chicken line by the prusik knot. It kept Robi and I on my boat going through CRAZY chop at the entrance to Pensacola channel. (This was nice because my wife was sailing on a tri at the same time and said she saw a couple sharks in the water.)
I thought about using two balls attached to a fore and aft knot but tried just one and it certainly works well enough.