Announcements
New Discussions
Polar Diagrams for beach catamarans?
by Frank N. 05/04/22 07:38 PM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
worrell 1000 Question? #87934
11/02/06 12:50 PM
11/02/06 12:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 65
east coast canada
S
sail2007 Offline OP
journeyman
sail2007  Offline OP
journeyman
S

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 65
east coast canada
worrell 1000 Question?, What went wrong & was the money paid out?

I posted a race event that I am currently working on offering $234,000.00 In Cash Prizes, In the threads there was a mention of comparison to the worrell 1000 and that I should read up on it. While doing so, all I could find are numerous people stories of racing in the event, all positive, as well a really nice website on it all, that runs until I think if memory serves correctly 2001. As the reference in my thread lead me to believe something went wrong with the event, I would like to know more as to avoid any of the same mistakes.

I have a questions regarding a race where $1,000,000 in prize money was supposed to be paid out.
Was the prize money paid out for the worrell 1000 cat race?
What went wrong in this event if anything?
Is there a good link to find out more, on it all?
Does this event still happen or what has happened?

thanks, just wondering on it all?
http://ca.geocities.com/sail.2007@rogers.com

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: worrell 1000 Question? [Re: sail2007] #87935
11/02/06 01:19 PM
11/02/06 01:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
veteran
Keith  Offline
veteran

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Start by doing a search on the forum here...

Re: worrell 1000 Question? [Re: Keith] #87936
11/02/06 05:57 PM
11/02/06 05:57 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
MauganN20 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
MauganN20  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
Oh man, I think people are so inredibly tired of talking about what happened but I'll get you started on your quest to find more information:

Quote
Was the prize money paid out for the worrell 1000 cat race?


No. The race never happened. The entrance fees were never returned to those who paid up.

Quote
What went wrong in this event if anything?

Well I guess nothing went wrong with it since it never happened. See point above.

Quote
Is there a good link to find out more, on it all?

Type in "Worrell 1000" or "That bastard still has my money" into the search engine on this site and you'll find plenty.

Quote
Does this event still happen or what has happened?

No, the tybee 500 has replaced it as the premier distance event on the east coast. http://www.tybee500.com

Re: worrell 1000 Question? [Re: Keith] #87937
11/02/06 06:03 PM
11/02/06 06:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Will_R Offline
old hand
Will_R  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
I'll bite....

Ok, there were two situations going on with the last scheduled Worrell 1000.

First the 1,000,000 dollar "prize"
The idea was that each team would put up 20k that would go into an "escrow account" (cough cough) and then be paid out to the top teams at the completion of the event. Do the math and you'll see that this required 50 teams to put up the cash. First... there are not 50 teams out there with a real chance to win the event, so how would you get them to put up the money?. Second, a team with a 20k budget is in the upper 10% of the racers, so for any team to come up with an additional 20k after their expenses... not gonna happen.

Now, the other issue.... this is a hot button topic.
Mike promised the teams; a new boat, a truck and two hotel rooms for the race. That's 13 days + 2 or 3 days before the race to get ready. Cost? Only 5k, a deal at twice the price (you know the old saying a/b sounding too good to be true). Sadly, all the sailors that ponied up the dough got swindled out of their money. I know quite a few had judgments against Mike, but... blood from a turnip.

I think he offered their money back at 150% towards the 2004 race, but as we all know that didn't and never was going to happen.

It's sad too b/c it was a great event. Nothing like two night legs, the north Atlantic and Cape Hatteras to put hair on your chest ;-) I'd do it again... with a better skipper and better dry suit.

Last edited by Will_R; 11/02/06 06:06 PM.
Re: worrell 1000 Question? [Re: MauganN20] #87938
11/03/06 12:30 AM
11/03/06 12:30 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 65
east coast canada
S
sail2007 Offline OP
journeyman
sail2007  Offline OP
journeyman
S

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 65
east coast canada
thank you, for taking the time to explain this too me. The event did look good. Its a shame the event went this way, and the deposits were all lost.

Re: worrell 1000 Question? [Re: Will_R] #87939
11/03/06 12:47 AM
11/03/06 12:47 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 65
east coast canada
S
sail2007 Offline OP
journeyman
sail2007  Offline OP
journeyman
S

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 65
east coast canada
thanks for your time on the subject will, it explains alot,20k is alot of cash to expend plus those added costs, you were speaking of. You would think that at some point prior this event, they would have realized thier error's, making an announcement that the race would not take place, and return the deposits made. I think that this posibly could have at the very least, salvaged the event for the following year. That way they could have gone back to the drawing board, sharpened thier pencils, corrected those error's. This is crappy

Re: worrell 1000 Question? [Re: sail2007] #87940
11/03/06 01:22 AM
11/03/06 01:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 65
east coast canada
S
sail2007 Offline OP
journeyman
sail2007  Offline OP
journeyman
S

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 65
east coast canada
Ok, so from the threads I read here, I am concluding that it wasn't the race itself but, the trust placed into the race organizers, and thier mismanagement of funds acquired towards the event, followed by the loss of entrants fee's or the deposits made, that subsequently lead to its end.

So In this it would be very apparent, that I would have my work cut out for me, on my Own Event.
What if anything, would anyone suggest, that would guarantee those funds and or deposits?
would a trust account with a bank, suffice, whereby the bank would only release to organizers, thier part of those funds, once the minimum number of enterants were reached. The bank also would hold back all prize monies, as well releasing those prizes to those who win?

Re: worrell 1000 Question? [Re: sail2007] #87941
11/03/06 03:09 AM
11/03/06 03:09 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 307
maui
jollyrodgers Offline
enthusiast
jollyrodgers  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 307
maui
hello,
how did you come up with the # 234,000?

the best way to guarantee funds is to have the funds. most event organizers have the trust of the sponsors and racers, and the racer's organization. this is because most organizers want to do another event in the future.
there have been sailing events with the kind of prize money you mentioned, and the prize checks take weeks to arrive sometimes. i assume this is because some of the money must be transferred from the sponsor to the organizer after the event takes place. assumptions are often wrong however.

if you are looking to take large deposits from the sailors to use as prize $ you better be an awefully good sales person

Re: worrell 1000 Question? [Re: sail2007] #87942
11/03/06 08:12 AM
11/03/06 08:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
Quote
Ok, so from the threads I read here, I am concluding that it wasn't the race itself but, the trust placed into the race organizers, and thier mismanagement of funds acquired towards the event, followed by the loss of entrants fee's or the deposits made, that subsequently lead to its end.


That would be a reasonable conclusion if you were to accept that those who responded knew the whole story.

I salute your endeavour and look forward to the coverage.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: worrell 1000 Question? [Re: jollyrodgers] #87943
11/03/06 11:11 AM
11/03/06 11:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
veteran
bvining  Offline
veteran

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
The only real way to offer prize money is to get a sponsor to put the money up as part of the event, in return the sponsor gets publicity. The Newport regatta gave away Volkswagen leases this year as prizes, but the entry fee didnt increase to cover the prizes. Volkswagen ponied up the cash for the leased cars.

The entry fees should go towards expenses, not prize money.

My question is, why do we need prize money? We're not professionals, we do this for fun. Put on a good event and they will come.

Bill

Re: worrell 1000 Question? [Re: bvining] #87944
11/03/06 11:15 AM
11/03/06 11:15 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
MauganN20 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
MauganN20  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
We don't need prize money.

I race for the fun of it, and the pride of competing. I have a feeling that I'm not the only one. I'm still of the opinion that throwing money at our sport would lead to all kinds of bad things amongst competitors. I saw it happen in my previous ameteur-gone-pro sport, and I'd really not like to see it happen here.

Re: worrell 1000 Question? [Re: MauganN20] #87945
11/03/06 11:36 AM
11/03/06 11:36 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Robi  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
To be honest I wont participate in a race where cash will be paid to the top finishers.

What am I going to do with cash? go and waste it? If I get a small trophy I will look at the trophy and remember the race and good times I had with friends and such.

IMO not a good idea.

Re: worrell 1000 Question? [Re: Robi] #87946
11/03/06 11:43 AM
11/03/06 11:43 AM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



You could always buy a bigger boat.

Re: worrell 1000 Question? [Re: ] #87947
11/03/06 12:14 PM
11/03/06 12:14 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 41
O
OBXGator Offline
newbie
OBXGator  Offline
newbie
O

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 41
It would be nice if Rick and Mary where to collectively write a full narrative on this subject and have a permanent record of this once classic event on this site.

The good, the bad man, and the ugly truth.

Re: worrell 1000 Question? [Re: ] #87948
11/03/06 12:26 PM
11/03/06 12:26 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Cash as a prize would draw more top teams, but turn off beginners and some of the weekend warriors. If the prize money came from the entrance fee, I imagine there could be some hard feelings and resentment as well. Many events offer prize money to the winners, but there is usually not much emphasis on it. The Volvo Champions race offer a substantial prize, but this is sponsor money.

For some Volvo CR videos:
http://www.fly-tornado.de/bilder/videos/tornado_wmv.wmv
http://www.volvocars-aktionen.de/vcr/rueckblick2004_video.html


Personally, I dont think we need more agression and 'will to win' on the race course. There is plenty of testosterone going around as it is <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
When it comes to prizes, I like useful items like gloves, blocks etc. or something from the sponsors. The "traditional" prizes we have won, like engraved glasses/mugs etc. started out at the back of a cabinet. Now my wife have put them in a cardboard box and put the box in storage. It will be fun looking at them the next time we relocate, but it's the preparations, competition and good memories from the event thats the real motivation to go to events, at least for us.

Re: worrell 1000 Question? [Re: Robi] #87949
11/03/06 12:27 PM
11/03/06 12:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Quote
To be honest I wont participate in a race where cash will be paid to the top finishers.

What am I going to do with cash? go and waste it? If I get a small trophy I will look at the trophy and remember the race and good times I had with friends and such.

IMO not a good idea.


Robi, you would have to win first (doh!) If you do win some cash though, I'll be glad to waste it for you (me).

Personally, I'm not opposed to prize money. The quible and cheating happens anyway even without it. HOWEVER, I don't think many of our existing race managements (speaking very generally) are tight enough to handle the responsibility that comes with cash payouts, rules, and proper penalties.


Jake Kohl
Re: worrell 1000 Question? [Re: Jake] #87950
11/03/06 12:39 PM
11/03/06 12:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Robi  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Quote
You could always buy a bigger boat.
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Us mortals cant afford big boats <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> OUCH! hahahaha What ya gonna do for the Alter cup my man? Better get used to this little rocket. I can lend you mine if you lend me yours <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Robi, you would have to win first (doh!) If you do win some cash though, I'll be glad to waste it for you (me).
What is why I said what I said. I am going to leave empty handed <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> No money fo me = no fun. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Re: worrell 1000 Question? [Re: jollyrodgers] #87951
11/03/06 01:18 PM
11/03/06 01:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 65
east coast canada
S
sail2007 Offline OP
journeyman
sail2007  Offline OP
journeyman
S

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 65
east coast canada
The $234,000.00 in prize money

The event is a high stakes race, meaning that yes the money comes from the enterence fee's paid. This is why it is important to enshure a system or manner of collecting the funds, that each enterant or sailor would be comfortible with, enshureing them that if the minimum number of enterants were not achieved by a certain date, that any funds (deposits) paid would automatically be returned back to those that entered.

my thoughts on how I propose to do are as follows, so if anyone see's a problem with this method, I would like to have your thoughts as to why there could potentially be a problem, as well any solutions or recomendations you have.

1st Interested enterants only notify of thier intent to Race providing all details of the series they wish to race in and for what period (series)....NO money nor deposit

There is a minimum number of enterants required for the race to happen, so knowing this the number of interested parties collected will be higher than the number actually needed.....to account for those who do not follow through, or change thier minds.

If by a predetermined date more than enough interested enterants have expressed interest we continue to No.2

No.2 the deposit, this would be sent direct to the bank where the event trust is set up, not to the organizers of the event. A predetermined date is established on the collection of it, meaning simply that if the required number was not achieved by the time and date established here, the bank would simply return the funds to those they recieved them from. One thing to note here is, when the interested parties express thier interest in the event, they did so by filling out a form, this inturn gives them a reservation number a placement number, so when the above takes place (required numbers achieved) a notice is sent to these enterants for thier deposits (twenty percent, balance due in the same manner several weeks prior the event)they will have 72 hrs to do so upon thier notification date, if they didn't, then the next reservation in series is notified, and so on. This is so that funds collected are not held for any legnth of time should the race not achive its minimum number, thus monies being promptly refunded at 100%.
the link is where the form is if you wish to see it.
http://ca.geocities.com/sail.2007@rogers.com/index_files/Page1241.htm


3rd If the proper number is achieved the event is held.

On sponsor's there are prizes and awards etc. here too, they are over and above the cash prizes,this works like any other event.

Re: worrell 1000 Question? [Re: sail2007] #87952
11/03/06 01:41 PM
11/03/06 01:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Sail2007,

I'm being perfectly honest here - but I'm unable to locate your actual name or anyone's name with this organization on your website. Even if I had the interest and/or the money there is very little chance I would put it up entrusting an organization that is so clouded. For all we know, you could be a person that has had legal issues with something like this in the past or, heaven forbid, this could even be a scam. Before I sent anyone $2800 I would certainly want to know who was behind it and what reputation they have.

The fact that nearly $250,000 is expected and the website for the event is hosted on a free and public Geocities account leads me down the road of further concern since nobody's real name need be associated with the domain registration. For that level of sport, one would at least expect that the event would have it's own domain name.

You're asking for a lot of faith from your competitors.

Re: worrell 1000 Question? [Re: sail2007] #87953
11/03/06 02:12 PM
11/03/06 02:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific....
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
hobie1616  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific....
Quote
The $234,000.00 in prize money

The event is a high stakes race, meaning that yes the money comes from the enterence fee's paid. This is why it is important to enshure a system or manner of collecting the funds, that each enterant or sailor would be comfortible with, enshureing them that if the minimum number of enterants were not achieved by a certain date, that any funds (deposits) paid would automatically be returned back to those that entered.
So, how much is the vig?

How much of the entry fee goes towards expenses?

Whats your cut?

Have you done any forecasting on what the expenses will be?

Do you have an organization in place to execute the pre-sail, sail and post-sail activities?

Who are you? When talking about $234,000 of other peoples money youd be much more believable if you could spell entrance, ensure, entrant, comfortable, ensuring and entrants. Did you ever live in B.C. and were involved in Australian imports?


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 17 guests, and 89 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
toomanyhulls, madina9900, johngava, badcatsailor, wehnet
8119 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,395
Posts267,036
Members8,119
Most Online1,650
Sep 10th, 2019
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1