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Tradewinds regatta sharing a fleet .... #92795
12/20/06 06:27 AM
12/20/06 06:27 AM
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North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
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Tradewinds regatta, sharing a fleet with the with nacra-17's ?

The pre-registration listing for the Tradewinds regatta can be found here :

http://www.catsailor.com/registration/list-entries.php?regatta=86


Currently I see :

-1- Terry Back
-2- Todd Terrell (doublehanded)
-3- Tom Shannon
-4- Wilder Robles
-5- Pete Pollard (doublehanded)


And we know that Matt McD. said that the following teams will be there as well :

-6- Matt/Gina McDonald (doublehanded)
-7- Chuck Harnden
-8- Seth Stern


But in the registration I also see two singlehanded nacra-17's listed :

Bob Curry NI17R
Tom Leach NI17R


Shall we invite them to join us in a single racing fleet/scoring, racing first in wins ?

Afterall the handicaps are pretty close together :

Nacra F17 Uni spi NF17U ** 66.7 69.0 68.1 66.6 65.0
Formula 16 Slp spi F16 *** 65.2 69.3 67.5 64.4 62.3


It will be more fun for us and them and, a racing fleet of 10 boats is far more challenging and educational for all of us especially with mr. Curry being part of it. Also I think it to be a very good gesture towards the Nacra 17's, just as we have done with the FX-ones in UK and the A's in USA.

We always said that we are an open welcoming class and this seems like a perfect opportunity to show it again.

Also I think that dropping the two nacra 17's into an open (wastebasket) class with the single Dart 18, single H20, single H16, 2 Hobie 17's and 2 nacra 6.0's is neither fun nor fair to all of them. The spinnaker is just too much for any non-spi boat to correct out over. It seems the open class (non-spi) is large enough to make racing fun without adding the nacra 17's, so why not help everybody out a bit and invite the nacra 17's to our fleet. Also I think mr Curry will find more competition in our fleet then in the open class.

Additionally if the Inter-20's don't make class (likely) then I think we should consider inviting them as well. As a direct result Rick only has to start 3 fleets and can then really get on with doing alot of races. One F18 fleet, one F16+other spi boats fleet and one non-spi fleet. It also saves Rick some handicap calc work in the open class and we can go boat hunting ! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

But apart from the other boats I think inviting the nacra 17 is most attractive and important.

And we need to notify Rick well before hand.

So what do the Florida sailors say ?

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 12/20/06 06:32 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
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Re: Tradewinds regatta sharing a fleet .... [Re: Wouter] #92796
12/20/06 07:45 AM
12/20/06 07:45 AM
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fin. Offline
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If they want to start with us, great! But, they shouldn't have to give up their handicap.

Re: Tradewinds regatta sharing a fleet .... [Re: fin.] #92797
12/20/06 07:56 AM
12/20/06 07:56 AM
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Robi Offline
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If they want to start with us, they should use our handicap. That is how I see things. Also this is our midwinter nationals, what are we going to do if an F17 wins it?

Gotta ask the what if's.

I am not very fond on giving our flag to a NON F16 boat in a midwinter national competition.

I am for it if:
They use our rating, (one start, one number) makes life easier for RC as well. Like Wouter said, first in wins.
They forefit the chance to take the F16 flag if they win. (it will be hard to convince me otherwise)

Re: Tradewinds regatta sharing a fleet .... [Re: Robi] #92798
12/20/06 09:02 AM
12/20/06 09:02 AM
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Wouter Offline OP
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I should have been clearer on this, indeed.


The idea was to award the "flag" to highest F16 in the scoring, afterall it is an F16 midwinters.

But if a Nacra 17 wins then we'll have to fixed him up with something. How about the F16 sailors buying him drinks all evening and refer to him as "Ohh superior one, allow this FAD to adress you ...". That should be sufficient stimulus for them to crave first place.

Also the nacra's must accept racing us on a "first in" basis otherwise it is no fun and I really don't think Ricks will want to do handicap calcs for more then just the open class fleet. If the nacra boys won't accept that then they can go and race the Dart 18 and Hobie 16 in the open class fleet.

We're welcoming but not crazy.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 12/20/06 09:04 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Tradewinds regatta sharing a fleet .... [Re: Wouter] #92799
12/20/06 10:01 AM
12/20/06 10:01 AM
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Eastern NC, USA
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tshan Offline
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I think this should be a decision made by the US F16 Class Association. It is our first "organized" class function/regatta. It is the reason the class association was formed, right? I'll ping them via email and encourage them to voice their opinions.

I agree with all of your comments and that we should be seen as an open/inviting group - but I'd rather see the Class board give an opinion.

My rules would be:
1. Same rating, class racing.
2. No whining about racing against doublehanded boats.
3. Will NOT be the F16 Midwinters "official" champ if one of them wins.

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Tom
Re: Tradewinds regatta sharing a fleet .... [Re: tshan] #92800
12/20/06 10:27 AM
12/20/06 10:27 AM
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MERRITTISLAND, FL
Matt M Offline
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Being set up as a Midwinters this is a conversation that needs to be held off line with Rick and the race committee.

Rick has always run the old style start sequence and given we are singled out I am pretty sure his plan is to have a separate start for the F16's.

My preference would be to group all the boats of similar performance into a start even though scoring may be seaparate. Big competitve starts are not something very many of us get to be involved with very often, and I know is a huge detriment to me when I do get to a larger National level event.

Having Waves and the spin boats on the same line does not make sense, but the couple of I17's, F16s and F18s would be great. IMO it would be worth some lobbying.

Not to stir the pot Rick as I know you lurk out there, but some big fleet racing would be great to go with the Tradewinds party, because you are one of the few big attended events left.

Matt

Re: Tradewinds regatta sharing a fleet .... [Re: tshan] #92801
12/20/06 10:36 AM
12/20/06 10:36 AM
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Wouter Offline OP
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I fully submit myself to the autority of the US class association. I guess the rebel spirit in me got a little to enthousiastic.

So I move to declare my post as "feeling the water" that may lead to an official request to the US F16 class to consider making this invitation to the two nacra's involved official.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Tradewinds regatta sharing a fleet .... [Re: Wouter] #92802
12/20/06 10:49 AM
12/20/06 10:49 AM
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Eastern NC, USA
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tshan Offline
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I think you brought up a great consideration and I thank you for it. Keep up the flow of good ideas. I did not mean to be offensive in my reply.

I, personally, like the idea of inclusion and the open discussion about it.

I've asked the US Board to take a look at this thread and give their opinions.

We need to act fairly quickly, so that Rick can adjust his plans - if he needs to.


Tom
Re: Tradewinds regatta sharing a fleet .... [Re: tshan] #92803
12/20/06 02:14 PM
12/20/06 02:14 PM
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Spin boat start is good!

Rick, does that create any problems?

Bump ... [Re: fin.] #92804
12/23/06 04:03 AM
12/23/06 04:03 AM
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Wouter Offline OP
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bump ...


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Tradewinds Combined Start _ READ ME [Re: Wouter] #92805
01/02/07 07:36 PM
01/02/07 07:36 PM
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tshan Offline
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Ok, here is the deal as best we can describe it before final registration…

I let Rick know that the F16 Class would like to “share” their start with any/all low handicap boats, whether they are slotted to have their own starting slot or not. This would obviously include the Open Low group (currently made up of F17s, H20, N6.0s, ARC 21 and the N20s), plus any other Low Portsmouth fleet that want to start/sail in a larger fleet. If the N20’s make up a fleet (which they will probably do), then they are still invited to combine their start with us. Same goes for F18 and all the other similarly handicapped boats. Each fleet would then be scored out into its own fleet for fleet prizes. The overall scoring will be of interest to the Portsmouth committee for ratings purposes, as well.

The F16 class feels like this type of combined fleet start builds camaraderie across fleets instead of segregating everyone to their own areas of the race course. It’ll enhance the party, too – as sailors across fleets will have something to talk about, instead of focusing on a single set of competitors. It’ll also minimize the number of starts (hoping to get in more races) and give individual sailors more opportunity to mix it up on the course with other boats (it sucks to be in a six boat fleet and trail everyone around the race course with no hope of ever getting to yell STARBOARD!!)

Rick has agreed to the idea in principle and will include the Open Low fleet, but will not know the exact make up of the combined start until all the boats are registered. Obviously, any fleet can ask to be in their own start if/when they have the correct number of boats - but we want it known that the F16s are willing to combine with any other boat of similar sailing characteristics for the reasons listed above. Listen closely at the skipper’s meeting for the final roll call.

Thoughts? Opinions? Thoughts from the current Open fleet sailors, N20 sailors, F18 sailors? Anyone?

Last edited by tshan; 01/02/07 07:41 PM.

Tom
Re: Tradewinds Combined Start _ READ ME [Re: tshan] #92806
01/02/07 08:21 PM
01/02/07 08:21 PM
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fin. Offline
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I like it! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Fanatastic chance for someone to pick up bragging rights.

Re: Tradewinds Combined Start _ READ ME [Re: fin.] #92807
01/02/07 08:59 PM
01/02/07 08:59 PM
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Robi Offline
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Quote
I like it! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Fanatastic chance for someone to pick up bragging rights.
Or bashing rights.

Re: Tradewinds regatta sharing a fleet .... [Re: Matt M] #92808
01/03/07 09:26 AM
01/03/07 09:26 AM
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Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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What reason would a team not in your fleet have for engaging you tactically?


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Tradewinds regatta sharing a fleet .... [Re: David Ingram] #92809
01/03/07 09:46 AM
01/03/07 09:46 AM
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fin. Offline
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Gee, Ding, I dunno! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Who said anything about "tactics"?


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