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nacra 450 vs hobie #95574
01/09/07 06:14 PM
01/09/07 06:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3
M
mikewi Offline OP
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mikewi  Offline OP
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M
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3
I have had a hobie wave several years and would like to move up a step in performance. I am in my early 50's, weigh about 215 lbs, usually sail solo on an inland lake, and do not race--just like to tool around. The Hobie Getaway and 17 seem a little big for a single person to right. On paper, the Nacra 450 looks about the right size. Nearest Nacra dealer is 10 hrs away, so I'm concerned about getting repairs. (Hobie dealer is 3 hrs away.) Anybody have any feedback on Nacras regarding reliability? Anybody with a 450 have any comments on performance and stability? Any other suggestions? Thanks

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: nacra 450 vs hobie [Re: mikewi] #95575
01/09/07 07:42 PM
01/09/07 07:42 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
MauganN20 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
MauganN20  Offline
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If I'm able to right the H17 at 170lbs, you could do it for sure.

Re: nacra 450 vs hobie [Re: MauganN20] #95576
01/09/07 08:21 PM
01/09/07 08:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,690
Seabrook, TX
DougSnell Offline
Pooh-Bah
DougSnell  Offline
Pooh-Bah
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Posts: 1,690
Seabrook, TX
Mike:

Keep the Wave and add this!! You will have a giant killer that is light to move:
http://store.catsailor.com/tek9.asp?pg=products&specific=jmnrkomnk0

Doug

Re: nacra 450 vs hobie [Re: mikewi] #95577
01/09/07 08:44 PM
01/09/07 08:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Dan_Delave Offline
old hand
Dan_Delave  Offline
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Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
I do not know if you are planning to buy a new one or a used one. If you are planning on a new one you make just consider getting a used Formula 16 instead. You do not have to sail it with a chute or even a jib and it is very easy for one person to right. I think that Rick has an ad for one at less than $9000.

A Nacra 500 performs about how a Hobie 16 does. I was just involved with a youth multihull clinic. We had a couple of Nacra 500s about 6 Hobie 16s and an SL16. I would guess that the 450 being about 2 feet shorter would perform more along the lines of a Hobie 14. I would say that is just barely a step above the wave.

What are you trying to accoplish with this purchase? For tooling around the Wave is a good boat. For more performance, non-racing of course, then...?

Another easily righted boat would be an A-Cat. Sometimes you can find them for under $10K and that is a ride!

Later,
Dan

Re: nacra 450 vs hobie [Re: DougSnell] #95578
01/09/07 10:11 PM
01/09/07 10:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 806
Toronto, Ontario
pitchpoledave Offline
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pitchpoledave  Offline
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Posts: 806
Toronto, Ontario
Isn't the whole hooter on a wave thing a case of 1 foot itis? Why not just get a f17, f16 or A class?

Re: nacra 450 vs hobie [Re: pitchpoledave] #95579
01/09/07 11:06 PM
01/09/07 11:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,690
Seabrook, TX
DougSnell Offline
Pooh-Bah
DougSnell  Offline
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Seabrook, TX
He says he sails solo and doesn't race. Why does he need a race boat? For a about $2200 he would have a fast boat he can handle and move by himself.

Just my 2 cents.

Doug

Re: nacra 450 vs hobie [Re: DougSnell] #95580
01/09/07 11:13 PM
01/09/07 11:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 902
Norman,OK
gree2056 Offline
old hand
gree2056  Offline
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Posts: 902
Norman,OK
The wave looks fun and with the Hooter it could be a blast. Isn't that wave a little slower than the 14? I bet with the hooter you would be smoking them and other small cats.


Once you go cat you never go back! Nacra 5.2 (Elsies)#1499, running an inter17 spin!
Re: nacra 450 vs hobie [Re: mikewi] #95581
01/10/07 01:30 AM
01/10/07 01:30 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
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ejpoulsen  Offline
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Posts: 1,037
Central California
The nacra 450 is too small for you. Instead, look at the nacra 500 (or nacra 5.0) or even a hobie 16; you could still right either. The nacra 450 hulls have less volume than the Wave (they're longer but narrow).


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: nacra 450 vs hobie [Re: mikewi] #95582
01/10/07 02:47 AM
01/10/07 02:47 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
I would put a roller-furling Hooter on the Wave. It makes it a whole different boat in the lighter winds that predominate on a lot of lakes in the summer. I would also install a traveler track for the mainsail, and add the optional trapeze (just for fun in heavier air). <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: nacra 450 vs hobie [Re: Mary] #95583
01/10/07 03:26 AM
01/10/07 03:26 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
W
warbird Offline
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warbird  Offline
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Bay of Islands, NZ
For the cost of that re fit he could get a Hobie 17 and then sell on the Wave.

Re: nacra 450 vs hobie [Re: warbird] #95584
01/10/07 03:50 AM
01/10/07 03:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Well, the Hobie 17 is probably heavier to move around and harder to right and takes a lot longer to rig than a Wave.

Plus, I don't know where he sails, but if it is on United States midwest or northeast inland lakes, summers have notoriously light wind, and ANY boat is going to be slow and boring. If that is the case, he is going to want a hooter on the Hobie 17, too.

Plus, his weight won't particularly affect boat performance with the Wave, whereas it probably will with the Hobie 17, which has a lot less buoyancy.

And at his age, the Hobie 17 might be a little more athletic than he wants -- is he going to want to trapeze off the wing if it is windy? Especially when he is solo sailing and probably pretty much alone out there on the lake as far as other sailors watching out for him?

On the other hand, in lighter air, the wing is more comfortable seating for us older folks -- I have thought about putting some kind of lawn chair on my Wave. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by Mary; 01/10/07 03:59 AM.
Re: nacra 450 vs hobie [Re: mikewi] #95585
01/10/07 04:54 AM
01/10/07 04:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,479
Thailand
Buccaneer Offline
veteran
Buccaneer  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,479
Thailand
All three ARE RIGHTABLE under the right conditions. At 215 the 4.5 will be the only one of the three you could right in all conditions without the use of a bag.

The 450 is also bullet proof and most of the parts are ronstan (readily available and cheaper then Hobie) and itís simple to repair fiberglass. The 450 like the 5.0 both have very good handling characteristics.

The Gateway is the slowest of the three and made from plastic similar to the wave so itís also the heaviest of the three as well. Advantage of plastic being impact resistance and not weight and speed.

The H17 is the fastest and most powerful of the three and uses center boards so will tack/ turn easier but youíll need to bring along a righting bag as itís heavier with a longer mast then the 4.5 (the N5.0 is actually lighter then the H17).

Buoyancy wise the 450 was approved in AUS for up to four persons. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />




Quote
I have had a hobie wave several years and would like to move up a step in performance. I am in my early 50's, weigh about 215 lbs, usually sail solo on an inland lake, and do not race--just like to tool around. The Hobie Getaway and 17 seem a little big for a single person to right. On paper, the Nacra 450 looks about the right size. Nearest Nacra dealer is 10 hrs away, so I'm concerned about getting repairs. (Hobie dealer is 3 hrs away.) Anybody have any feedback on Nacras regarding reliability? Anybody with a 450 have any comments on performance and stability? Any other suggestions? Thanks


"House prices have risen by nearly 25 percent over the past two years. Although speculative activity has increased in some areas, at a national level these price increases largely reflect strong economic fundamentals." Ė Ben Bernanke Ė 2005
Re: nacra 450 vs hobie [Re: mikewi] #95586
01/10/07 10:33 AM
01/10/07 10:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
veteran
Keith  Offline
veteran
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Here's two that nobody has mentioned, but I've always thought about for just your purpose (single handed fun sailing):

Taipan 4.9 uni
Nacra/Inter 17, regular or R

Both boats have a great level of performance for the single handing sailor. Both boats can handle taking an extra person along for a ride. Both boats have the option of using a spinnaker when you're ready to try that (believe me, once you do you'll be hooked).

Nacras are pretty darn reliable. Most things you may need a dealer replacement for could be shipped to you.

Re: nacra 450 vs hobie [Re: Keith] #95587
01/10/07 11:02 AM
01/10/07 11:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,690
Seabrook, TX
DougSnell Offline
Pooh-Bah
DougSnell  Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,690
Seabrook, TX
Mike:

If you go 17 route. I will show you how to make it fast and fun in heavy or light air.

Doug
dsnell4 at houstom dot rr dot com

Attached Files
95947-MeandAsh.jpg (52 downloads)
Last edited by DougSnell; 01/10/07 11:09 AM.
Re: nacra 450 vs hobie [Re: Buccaneer] #95588
01/11/07 11:43 AM
01/11/07 11:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3
M
mikewi Offline OP
stranger
mikewi  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3
Thanks for all the replies, it's appreciated. When I compare the 450 to the Wave I see a boat that is 2 ft longer, 1 ft wider, weighs 280 lbs vs. 245, has jib blocks on the front beam instead of the tramp, and a portsmouth rating of 77.5 vs 93.4. A big jump for not much weight or size. The 500 is another 2 ft longer, and weighs 340 lbs. The Getaway is 390 lbs. I do remember a post by Danno where he had a leak in a hull on his 450. That concerns me. The rotomolded hulls on the Hobie have been darn near torpedo proof. I do wonder how much less bouyant the 450 is. On my lake there are some lowrider 16's when 2 good size adults are aboard. BTW another poster mentioned NACRA's "uninspiring" website. Amen to that! Thanks to everyone for your input.

Re: nacra 450 vs hobie [Re: mikewi] #95589
01/11/07 11:49 AM
01/11/07 11:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
veteran
Keith  Offline
veteran
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
We had a fellow in our club racing a 500 - very nice little boat, and worked very well for him both single and double handed. I would tend to try to go as large as you can and still be comfortable with moving it around.

Out of the boats I've had, the NACRA hulls have been the best.

Re: nacra 450 vs hobie [Re: mikewi] #95590
01/11/07 02:23 PM
01/11/07 02:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
If you want a rotomolded boat that also performs like a true beach cat then the best options are to found here.

Dart 16 (standard)

Dart 16 (X-version)

The Dart 16 X versions looks alot more modern and it probably a quite pleasant and performant beach cat.

The pricing is very acceptable as well, as so far I can compare them to EU pricing for nacra's and hobie.

I think this Dart 16 X-version should have been the youth boat over the SL16 if ISAF had actually followed their own design goals as defined during the youth selection proces. The difference with the SL16 ? Rotomolded hulls.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 01/11/07 02:26 PM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: nacra 450 vs hobie [Re: Wouter] #95591
01/11/07 02:33 PM
01/11/07 02:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
veteran
Jalani  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Quote
If you want a rotomolded boat that also performs like a true beach cat then the best options are to found here.

Dart 16 (standard)

Dart 16 (X-version)

The Dart 16 X versions looks alot more modern and it probably a quite pleasant and performant beach cat.

The pricing is very acceptable as well, as so far I can compare them to EU pricing for nacra's and hobie.

Wouter


I suspect the Dart 16X is Laser's knee-jerk response to the announcement from Topper of the new Topaz 16C, designed by Yves Loday and Rob White, which coincidentally is also available in two versions of similar spec to the two Darts. Surprise, surprise! They're the 16C and 16CX! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

The main difference is that the 16C looks more modern and is claimed to be nearly as fast as a Spitfire according to one of the salespeople on the Topper stand at the London Boat Show.


[Linked Image]

The fast version is the one in the background.

Attached Files
96124-Topaz16C.jpg (50 downloads)

John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: nacra 450 vs hobie [Re: Jalani] #95592
01/11/07 04:17 PM
01/11/07 04:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 168
San Diego
H
hokie Offline
member
hokie  Offline
member
H
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 168
San Diego
I think 340lbs for the Nacra 5.0 might be an overestimate, I have heard that they are more like 320. The Nacra feels very lively when sailing and is much stiffer than a getaway. These other roto boats may have improved.



Re: nacra 450 vs hobie [Re: Jalani] #95593
01/11/07 07:08 PM
01/11/07 07:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


The only letter missing is the "F" <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
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