Racing with the monohulls this weekend and they want to score the multi's PHRF. I guess because thats what their software can handle. Anybody know where to find PHRF numbers for cats?

Hi,

This is a simple conversion I would use, but please do not let them try to score (or even compare) the results with the monohulls!



PHRF = 8.65 x D-PN - 550



where D-PN is the USSA non-wind-corrected Portsmouth from

(http://www.ussailing.org/portsmouth/tables02/tables02mh.asp)



This makes the original Olympic Tornado (63.7 D-PN) approximately 1 second/mile PHRF

A Hobie 16 (76.1 D-PN) approximately 108 sec/mile,

A Gemini 3000 (82.9 D-PN) approximately 169 sec/mile



This is my own concoction, which took me some time to develop so I'll take any blame, so long as it's only amongst the multihulls! Note, the 550 comes from the PHRF conversion from time-on-time, versus the time-on-distance formula: TCF = 650/(PHRF+550) The other part is an attempt to convert the multihull Time Factor (D-PN) to the PHRF world TCF. I'd like others to look at this and challenge it. We need a good system to agree upon so we can show up to some of these PHRF races (and have them show up in ours)!



Good Luck



Steve Bellavia

Hobie FX-One, Beneteau First 265

ELI PHRF Handicap Council

US SAILING has a page dedicated to this...



http://ussailing.com/phrf/TOT.htm

Thanks! This should help. We are doing a single-handed race with a wide variety of multi-hulls. Primarily just an excuse to go sailing.

Hi Paul,



Sorry it took so long to reply, but thanks for the URL from USSA.



This web page by John Collins, however, is simply a method to convert time-on-distance PHRF to Time-on-Time PHRF. I am still unaware of any system that converts the USSA Portsmouth for catamarans to PHRF, so that they can race at these typically monohull attended events and still be scored with the same software. I've been using my formula and it seems to work OK (for now)



Thanks again!



Steve

I believe local-racing groups assigns PHRF ratings. So if you are interested competing with the monohulls you will need to have your boat rated by your local handicap administrator, you must contact the fleet that assigns the handicaps for your area to obtain a handicap. Here's the link to the directory http://ussailing.com/phrf/phrfcon.asp They will not convert any other rating system. Good Luck

Hi Steve



I just raced the monohulls this weekend. We started 6 miles further back and 30 minutes sooner and I passed all of the boats( 220+) going to weather over the next 30 miles. The boats that I beat were the A0 PHRF boats with negative PHRF ratings.of -35 or so. If I had used a rating of 1 sec per mile... and they owed me time... they would never let us race again. The Supercat 22 of Roger Holmes was about 10 minutes behind me and followed 10 minutes later by three A0 boats and then a well sailed F31 tri.



Has your conversion been working in shorter races up there in decent breeze?



Take Care

Mark

What's the point of racing against mono-slugs??? It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Where's the challenge?



David Ho

TheMightyHobie18 1067

making converts....

If you can find an active offshore multihull fleet in your area, you can work in between their ratings. For example, all the F-boats have Portsmouth numbers. Florida Offshore Multihull Association has a website with PHRF numbers. My H20 fits in between F-25C and F-28R in Ports, giving me something in between their -15 and +30 PHRF numbers; say 6-8. I've done two "races" where I had a number in the 50's, given some formula type-conversion; what a gift :-) One of the races was against F-28Rs; don't know where they got it but they were using 66! Unfortunately its hard to find PHRF/Portsmouth links for boats faster than the F-boats; not enough of 'em to get either PHRF or Portsmouth. I think you could "guess" a number of negative 50-60 for a Tornado or Inter 20. If the wind is light, the big boats will kill you going dead downwind with chutes, especially if there's chop. Upwind in ANY wind (8+), you can walk away unless they're 50 feet or more. Mark, looks like these numbers are actually close for what you and Harry did last weekend (his number would be real close to the H20 of 6-8). Chris

I have been racing Daddio (RC-27) in PHRF now for a few years. We started with the conversion at the US Sailing site, which resulted in a rating of +6 I think. Each chance I get I drop the rating to something more reasonable. It is now at -90 and I can still kick the crap out of all of them if the wind blows more than 12 kts. The -90 's sweet spot is around 5-12 kts in smooth water. Offshore in waves and light wind conditions make the -90 nearly impossible to sail to.



The important thing is to not deprive any of the monhull sailors of their trophies. That will definitely turn them off. We sail in our own class sometimes and forego any trophy just to have a chance to show off. So far it has resulted in one Hobie 33 team at our club buying an RC-27 to race next year.



If we all are very courteous and don't whine, we can dispell the rumors most keel boat sailors beleive are true about multihulls and their skippers. Don't wear your wet swim suit or shoes in the club house, buy stuff from the bar and don't sneak off to your car to grab beer out of your trunk. Compliment the monohull sailors and don't always talk about how much faster your boat is than theirs.



All of these things will not only get you invited back, but will have them lining up to sail with you at the next race.





Pictures of Daddio in PHRF

HI Rob

you wrote

The important thing is to not deprive any of the monhull sailors of their trophies. That will definitely turn them off. We sail in our own class sometimes and forego any trophy just to have a chance to show off.



I agree.... we were supposed to start with the cruising muilti's and use their handicap system.... however.. they decided at the last minute that the rules were written as Catagory 4 off shore and while we were welcome to race we would have to meet all of the requirmenents. Last year... this was not an issue, and the winds were 5 knotts with lots of chop. We took the class gun but did not correct out.



you wrote:

If we all are very courteous and don't whine, we can dispell the rumors most keel boat sailors believe are true about multihulls and their skippers. Don't wear your wet swim suit or shoes in the club house, buy stuff from the bar and don't sneak off to your car to grab beer out of your trunk



I agree again... we need to be very aware that the beach culture is not appreciated at the yacht club. As the number of active racers declines... racing against the monohulls is still a race AND they are running the event.



If you are rating -90 with the RC 27... what would be a good estimate for a Tornado with a chute --50 or so??



Take Care

Mark

Maybe this is something NAMSA could look into. NAMSA could represent all multihull sailors by getting the PHRF handicap administrators to assign handicaps to all US Sailing listed multihulls. Then we can all be first back to the bar, but I’m sure the corrected times will be disappointing.

Sail Fast

Jon

Rob - Are you going to the RTI? Did you sell Daddio?



Steve.

P19+spi 969/162

Jonr,



GREAT IDEA!!! we'll work on it!

Hi Mark,



In answer to your question:

"Has your conversion been working in shorter races up there in decent breeze? "



It certainly does NOT work if you try to score the multihulls against the mono-slugs. (See my first post). For example, every Wednesday we (about 40 mono's and 1 to 5 cats) race 6 miles around an elliptical shaped island. In general, the cats finish in about 40 minutes, the mono's a little over an hour. If you do the math, that's over 200 sec/mile faster than the fastest mono, usually a J-80 which rates about 120. That would make the cats -80.

The reason I use my formula is the "cross-over" boats. That is the boats that are sort of racer-cruiser multi's, like the F-27, Stiletto, etc. These boats have somewhat of an "established" PHRF from places like FOMA, yet they also have Portsmouth Numbers (USSA). What my formula does is retain the corrected time relationship per the USSA numbers, while not deviating too far from the FOMA numbers. (A stock F-27 is nearly the same as my FX-One at D-PN 70.4, while the FOMA PHRF is 60 - my formula converts 70.4 to 59 - pretty close to FOMA) It is NOT (have I said this enough - sorry) intended to rate the multi's against the mono's.



Does that make it any clearer?



Steve



P.S. I agree 110% with everything Rob Lyman said. All cat sailors sjould read what he wrote and then take an oath or something to follow it.



P.P.S - Jake & JonR - Having NAMSA look into this is an excellent idea - see, these forums do promote good stuff!



P.P.P.S I look forward to workng with you over the Winter regarding USSA multihull numbers

Too many other commitments this year. I hope to be back next year.