This can well be the case.

You know what would be the best setup in my opinion ?

Catamaranparts rudderblades, stocks and U-connector with the AHPC rod setup.

The AHPC supplied rod setup with stainless steel backing plates is just perfect. The handle (stainless steel tube at the end) is just the right size to allow for easy engaging of the rod setup and the head of the pin is rounded so it slides very easily into its locking hole even when the pin is not perfectly aligned with the hole. Also the heatshrink cover over the glass rod is very nice. Look good and takes care of all and any problems concerning glass rods. Also the dimensions are just right, You don't have to lean back far over the back of the boat at all.

Then the Catamaran parts rudder profile is the best so far in the F16 class. And it better be because it is used on quite alot of other boat types like the A's.

Personally I think the carbon stocks look cool, but the alu stocks are far more degradation (=UV and sandblasting) resistant and cheaper to produce. They weight as good as the same anyway. So again I must say that there doesn't appear to be any reason to make use of carbon cloth in the rudderstocks.

That would be my perfect rudder setup for the F16.

Wouter

I are sooo skeered of you guys.
Wouter, don't lump me in the group with Maugan...he's in a class by himself (hi Tad).
But...
Dying class? I don't buy that...
Tradewinds is the only regatta I've been to in the past year that had an F16 class. I've been to quite a few regattas (I put 45,000 miles on my vehicle last year due to them!).
Also, who says I only want to sail in a class? I not only sail the Nacra 20 in buoy races and distance races, but also on other badass runs. I like the boat for its power, handling, and sheer fun. I like to have a larger tramp, because the girl who gets on my boat isn't 4' tall... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Wouter, are you going to do Texel this year? I am...

The Marstrom system is a rod system, but an inelegant one.

I've got the AHPC rod system on my vintage Tornado and have sailed with the Marstrom system.

The Marstroms have an excellent section and weight and craftsmanship. However, keeping them locked down has been a nightmare. I expect they were adjusted properly, as they were bought second hand from Charlie Ogletree. They do use a rod hold down system, but with a delrin rectangle at the end of the rod and around the tiller to hold the rod down, and with a spring loaded catch with a delrin roller to hold the rod down. The problems we have had were with the hold-down catch not doing its job, and we've often resorted to tying down the arm with a velcro strap. Without the rod tiedown, the system is very easy to raise and lower.

The Marstrom foils also tend to crack at the "step" just below the rudder stock. Many at the nationals had this problem. It must be a real revenue generator for Marstrom, especially at their premium prices. Oh, and the left and right Marstrom rudders are not interchangable. You can't buy just one spare. :-/

In my experience, the Hobie system is painfully unreliable, and the foil quality has been poor. The Tiger foils have probably made a great leap this year, however, with the introduction of new foils from Mitch Booth. Still, the lock-down mechanism on my old boats made me hate-hate-hate them.

The AHPC system on my boat is very light, very simple, and very effective. The price is great. There is no slop whatsoever. The Taipan 5.7 foil, which I use, have a Tornado profile but the foil section is considered noncompetitive compared to the Marstrom in Tornado circles, but that's irrelevant to 99% of sailors.

I'm so impressed with the elegant AHPC foils that I'm dreaming of buying a Viper F16. The problems with the AHPC system are *very* minor: the rod hold-up hole stress plate is unnecessarily rivetted at the highest stress point of the tiller (where it meets the stock and is rivetted to it), and that's where my tiller broke when a guest skipper landed on it. The kick-up rod tends to roll-off the top of the round tiller arm as it activates, which makes me worry it might ever malfunction (but it never has). It can be a little fiddly locking down in the surf. And you must reach back and pull up the middle of the rod to unlock it.

But I happily tolerate these trivial details because the mechanism has been 100% reliable and take-your-breath-away light. Just holding them makes me dream of having an AHPC boat attached to them. If the viper is as well thought out as these foils, then it will be an awesome boat.

My source told me the Viper would be available at the beginning of this year. We'll see. Also, I heard from Robbie Daniel that the Capricorn F18 is the most completely assembled out of the crate of any boat he's seen, with most everything integrated in the front beam and pre-rigged. I expect the Viper F16 will be similar.

I've got an AHPC boat attached to said foils; they do great workmanship. I got my Taipan new, in crates and it went together flawlessly. My concerns is that the Viper hulls are going to be made elsewhere and AHPC is making no attempt to come near F16 minimum weight.

No I'm not, but then again I've already done that a few times.

Besides, I'm skeered of you beating me while sailing a much larger boat !

Wouter

As you can see in the picture this issue has been solved with the carbon rudders. The hold-up bracket is now on the other end of the tiller near the connection to the crossbar.

Wouter

Well it is now known that Jim Boyer is no longer making any catamarans. He used to make those excellent quality Taipan hulls. In effect AHPC had to move shop to somewhere else. My hope is that with the capricorn F18 being build somewhere else from very early on that they have solved the infancy issues while doing that boat. Hopefully this will allow the Viper F16 to be done right first time around.

Still, the choses AHPC makes do add a little weight to the boat. They really believe that with the right design (hulls, beams and rig) the overall weight of the boat won't matter enough unless it is far away from the minimum. Experiences with the Capricorn and the much lighter Taipan 5.7 have taught them that, they say. I too would love to see the Viper at 107 kg ready to go, but even the standard Blade F16 doesn't get that low after a couple of year refining the design, pretty much they are 110 kg in standard attire. The special upgraded versions can get to minimum weight however.

AHPC hops to use the Capricorn F18 beams for the Viper F16 and thus get a very stiff platform. Greg had now put many many many years in optimizing the spinnakers and mainsails. Goodall yacht sails in confident that they have got the F16 rig just right now. Considering how the capricorns are doing in races they may just have a point there. Viper hull shape is said to have been upgraded with the experiences gained with again the Capricorn F18.

So this pretty much leaves the Viper F16 with only as drawback that it is not expected to be at the minimum F16 class weight. But neither is the spitfire (140 kg) and that is still a very fast design as shown by results in France and UK. So maybe Greg does have a point here, maybe being a little overweight doesn't hurt so much. And the Viper will still be noticeably lighter then the Spitfire.

I know the intended all-up-weight but I'm uncomfortable publizing it here without AHPC's concent. I personally would like to see just a few more kg shaved of it, but then again I'm not in doubt that it will be a bloody hard boat to beat despite its extra weight. If the hull is compensated in its displacement for this extra weight then the increase in drag could indeed be rather small indeed.

On the things I know I wouldn't write off this Viper F16. It will take a whole lot more for that to happen.


Wouter

What are you going to be sailing?

Any F16s planning to do it this year? I'd love to do it, but probably won't, unless I can happily coincide it with a work trip. It's a pretty expensive trip from the UK, otherwise.

Paul

Well I might be tempted to sail Texel if I can find an experienced crew who will pay half the costs.

Or when I find an experienced skipper with boat looking for a crew who will pay half.

But I can't do it on my own. Too expensive, too much hassle and too bloody crowded on the start line, in the surf and on the water.

But I really DON'T want to do it with an inexperienced crew or skipper. I gets rough out there during most years. And I don't have any spare money for boat repairs.

Wouter

I'm chartering a Nacra 20 for the race.

But seriously Trey, it is good to know that catsailors from all over the world, like you, come over to do this event.

It is certainly a honour that foreigners are seriously considering such a thing and making the expenses to do so.

I certainly do hope that it will be everything that you expect it to be.

I'm not joking here. I really do mean that. I wish you the best of weather and enjoyment.

Wouter

Hey, why don't you two sail Texel together?? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Rumor mill is starting already...

"Hey, did you hear? Trey and Wouter are sailing together at Texel!!!"

Wouter this is not possible because the rudders will not fit in the AHPC housing. The housing of AHPC is to narrow. But we are working on a carbon housing from our workshop, the plan is to have it ready mid 2007 .

Regards,
Hans

We are going to sail Texel this year too.

And we could sail together in 2008 ;-)
Mark your calendar!

Next year I'll be probaly without Beat Käsi, as he will be away for a year or so.