I'm getting quite concerned about how much it would cost to participate in the Global Challenge. I know that the majority of the organising is currently underway but in my opinion the whole event is too long for just eleven races, two days of measuring? (which you'll have to pay for). The charges for measuring either boat or sails or both haven't be dissclosed yet. Plus you have to be a fully paid up member of the F16 Association (didn't know there was one yet in Europe) How much will that cost?
So taking into account the above plus travel, accommodation and living costs for the duration of the event, which is likely to attract 20 boats isn't looking too appetizing to me or my wallet.
I'm sorry to be so negative but I'm sure it could have been staged in such a way as to cost a lot less. By all means keep it Abroad but it should only take 3 days to run 11 races. Measuring could be carried out by non paid volunteers over the duration of the event and not prior to it, and the waiver of F16 membership fees for all participants of the event are just some ways of reducing the financial burden.
We are still a small Class in a big pond and I'm getting the feeling that the 'Global Challenge' is being taken out of the general F16 context.
Don't get me wrong I hope the Regatta is a big success for both the organisers and competitors but I hope in the future reference will be made to this thread and the following Global Challenge will be made more wallet friendly.

According to Notice of Race, you would only need to pay a fee for measurement if you don't have a certificate and the Chief Measurer wants to charge a fee...Get measured before you go.

It looks like the only measurement to take place is weighing and checking the certificates, which doesn't appear to require a measurement fee...and shouldn't require a fee.

One week seems pretty short for an 11 race regatta, especially when long distance travel is considered.

Will not a measurer charge a fee to do this ?

I wouldn't of thought so, wouldn't it just be part of the class registration fee. Admittedly I haven't much experience with the measurement process, was very young when doing previous boats, but it would seem a bit rich for a class measurer to charge for their services, it is a volunteer position afterall...isn't it? Maybe I've got it all wrong.

There was no charge to measure and stamp new sails at the last nationals I participated in.

There are charges in the UK to measure an F18.

I don't know how much experience you have with international races but when you need to check all boats if they are according all F16 rules than we did take 60 minutes per boat as an average time to check in and check the boats,sails,mast, mast tip weight (stamps need to put on etc etc ). We are thinking about 20 to 30 boats for this moment because you have to calculate with something. This means 20 to 30 hours of measuring in 3 days and not everybody is coming in forehand for example you can arrive on Sunday 11th and leaf on Friday 17th. The chief measurer is doing all the effort for free he doesn.t get paid for this which is normally not to way to do.
If your boat is not measured at all when you come to event than you have arange something with a measurer and i think you have to pay for that but as you can see in the NOR you have to talk than with the chief measurer about the costs. When you measure the boat in the UK i think it is cheaper and it is a one time issue.

The thing is that everybody wants the F16 class to be an international high developed class with the status of an international class and what the F16 Governing Council is doing is everything pre pairing for that status. In the beginning the class is small and it looks that you shooting with a big gun at a small target but when the ball starts rolling and you don't have it good set up than the troubles really are starting.
You are saying that the event is out of the F16 context but when you see the total program than the whole idea (also input from the sailors in the forum ) is to get a social and sportive event which is in line with what the F16 sailors are asking for with the lowest possible costs.

What also can be done from the UK is that the costs for the ferry are pretty high is to contact one of ferry companies and see if they are willing to sponsor the trip costs or a part of it and when they are saying that the want so advertising on the website or on the beach than this is no problem.

But if your wallet don't let you go to the event is a pitty but you can be a bit more positive because the organisers are doing there best to get it done as cheap as possible is.

Hans,



This is a great idea in theory, but the companies want to see a tangible benefit for their sponsership. We would be much better to try and organise this before the event is announced and make a more formal approach from the F16 association as "we" can then offer the (for example) "The P+O Nedlloyd F16 <insert event name>". IMO, we as an association would be better to approach companies for sponsership as we have more clout than individuals doing this. I'm assuming it is to late for this summer, but maybe it is worth investigating for the 2008 event (talking of which do we have any outline plans for even a approx location)

There are F-16 measurement certificates?
How do I get my boat measured without going to the Netherlands? I am sure the guys building boats in Finland also would like to know. What does it cost to have your boat and sails measured?

Having your gear measured in big/prestigous events is a good thing. Much better than hard feelings and controversies after the event starts. How thorough the measuring should be is something that should be left to the measurer. For one-off boats, a full measurment is the only way to know the boat complies and race fairly. For well known production boats, a quick check of the sails and bowsprit length might suffice. Weighting all boats, especially well known production boats, sound like a bit of overkill, but if it is deemed neccesary.. However, extending the event for two days for measuring is tough on us with families and a rather long way to drive, if that is what the NOR say. For the Tornado europeans and worlds, I can see the need to measure everything, but not for the first F-16 Global Challenge.

EUR100 for one-up and EUR140 for two up is about EUR100 less than what we pay for the big Tornado events. What can be pondered is wether it is worth the money, but it is a bit premature as we dont know what we will get for the money yet.




That is interesting. I tought the F-16 as a class wasn't that hung up on getting international status with ISAF? What's the advantage of getting this status (thread hijack..)? In my view, the F-16 class already is an international highly developed class (not intending to be offensive here Hans, I truly think so of the F-16 class, unless we are speaking of two different things )

Hi all,

just a word in support of the organisers.

This is not a European event this is a world event, I would not travel all the way from Australia for a 3 day event, what if there is no wind or too much for a couple of days. You can't expect people to travel such a long way for such a short time.

Meausurement wise, you must remember that this is the first event, there is a lot to go through and those travelling from a far would probably like to spend some time getting the bugs out in those first two days anyway, after all you don't have to come to both days. Obviously the expectation is that you need to organise local measurement before you leave, if this has a cost involved it is up to your local F16 group I would imagine. In OZ this does not normaly have a cost attached, but only your locals would know.

As for cost, I challenge anybody to have it cost more than from OZ but that is our choice, what you get for living in the best place in the World <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Entry cost is well within the realms of what I would expect for a World event, under $200 Aus. for one up. National events in OZ can cost that much, so seems reasonable to me. Less would be good, as I don't know where all the money is going to come from yet <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />, but such is life <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

I thank the organisers for going to all the effort to get us this far <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />. There is certainly nothing that would put me off coming in what has been organised so far.

Regards Gary. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi All,

The official F16 measurement form will be on the F16 website very shortly from now. It should be on the website already but there is some delay of private work what needs priority.
About the event program, it is on the event website (www.f16worlds.zandvoortonline.com) there you can see the sailing and social program.
On this website there will be all related event information available, the site will be updated any moment there is some news, info, etc etc.
If you need some more specific info please PM or send a mail to hansklok@formula16.org, i am sure i can inform you.
For the Aussie people it is maybe intersting to contact me because there is a container coming this way already around that time.

Cost for measuremwnt in the F18 class is not all that high. The price charged goes direct to the Association, not the measurer.

The price is used to cover the cost of measurement decals, certificate and any other expenses. The measure can and will ask for you to reimburse him for any travel expenses.

As for Entry fee, the F18 Worlds are charging $400 per head for the event.

Hope this puts it in perspective.

Hans,
I am curious about the same thing as Rolf is: WHY do you want the F16 to become an ISAF International Class?

And if you DO want it to become an ISAF class, why are you holding an international championship at this point? Won't that hurt your chances of ever becoming an ISAF class?

Since you are going ahead with this "Global" Challenge, I figured it was because you were NOT interested in ISAF international class status.

Just confused. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Hi All,

I am not saying that i want the F16 to become member of ISAF but an International class with that status, this means that the organisation of the F16GC and National organisations needs to have a structure.

The event name is Global Challenge and not worlds or worldchampionship, the Global Challenge is just a name to have no conflict with the ISAF.
So there are no ghosts or strange things happening, but when there is no structure in the total international organisation the class will fall apart that has been sheen in earlier try outs of others classes. The only classes who survived the first time where classes who had a good structure from the beginning on.

On this moment the F16 class sailors don't want to be member of ISAF ( as far as i know) but they want to sail internationally event. So the Global Challenge is one of these events.

Thanks Hans, both for the notice about the measurement form and the event program. The clinic and the whisky tasting session is something I really look forward to. EUR140 sounds like a very good deal when that is included. Good thing my crew has reached legal alcohol consuming age <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

More importantly. Who can measure F-16's? Will a boat measurer from our national sailing assoc. be able to run a valid measurement?

The OFFICIAL F16 measurement form will be available in the next week or so. It has been finalised by the Governing Council and the measurer's guidance notes are currently being prepared. I would like the form to be available for download from the F16 website - Paul?

The guidance notes and the Excel spreadsheet for measurers will only be available to appointed measurers.

In the UK, Simon Longstaff (Scooby_Simon), will be the measurer and will be receiving his forms and notes shortly. He and the other measurers, when appointed, will need to devise a scale of fees for measurement ranging from sails only through to a full boat measurement and certification. The class fees for certification and registration have yet to be set (at the AGM in August). Those boats that are mesured in this year will undoubtedly benefit from the present loose structure.

In Holland, Piet Saarberg, Chief Measurer to the F16 class will deal with mesurement and will also rule on queries from National Measurers.

I would recommend that all F16s get measured as soon as an option is available in their home State/Country. If you wait until the Global Challenge you'll need to contact Piet well in advance and be prepared to arrive early. I am not able to rule on whether boats could be dispensated to race pending measurement during the Championship week but I guess it is something that could be considered by the Council if there is a general consensus on this forum....

Further to Hans post in respect of the delay in publishing the Measurement Form, I'll own up now and say that it is down to me. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I had an exam yesterday that I had been preparing for and it just had to take priority. Well, it's out of the way now so I've got a few days to deal with F16 items and then I'm off to sunny California on Sunday to see Paul.

So to those people who have been impatient for the form - sorry!

Just to go back to the costs (Sorry) I have just worked out the approximate sum I would have to budget for to participate at this event. 8 Days in Holland plus travel and entries works out at £1,851 or if my maths is correct 2,131 euros. Which = £168/race or 254 euro's. Just as a comparison if you traveled from Holland to enter the Nations Cup your average cost per race would be £75 or 113 euros. Just under half the price and more scheduled races.
Just to throw a spanner in the works I could participate in the Aruba Regatta (including flights, container and accommodation) for the same amount as it would cost to go to Zandvoort?
Don't get me wrong I can understand where Gary is coming from in regards traveling long distances for short events but lets be honest how many non Europeans are going to turn up with their Cats.

Mark, that is a lot of money. Not that I dont believe you, but it would be interesting to see a rough breakdown of the sums. I recon about 1/5th of that will get me to Zandvoort, pay for the camping (we'll live in a tent and make most of the food ourself) and take us back again. I am not taking deprecation on the car, car insurance etc. into the equation with that sum.
Is the ferry really that expensive? Where is the big money going? Not trying to be clever, but if this is going to cost you EUR2100, the EUR100 entry fee is a relatively minor sum. But it do add up of course..

If I had to choose between Zandvoort in August and Aruba in November, it would not be hard to decide <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

That's interesting. I have never seen a regatta analyzed before in terms of cost per race.

Guessing at between 3-500GBP for the Harwich -> Hook return ferry for starters !