Catsailor.com Suggestions on Cat?
Posted By: JamesCarl Suggestions on Cat? - 10/03/06 08:01 PM
Hey everyone, I am really interested in getting involved in catamaran racing. But I don’t have any experience on them, I have only sailed cruising monohulls. Could anyone recommend a good boat I could purchase (I like fast:)? I have friends that sail in the area so I don't really want a single hander. I am also 6'5" 190lbs and 22 years old so I wouldn't mind a boat that might a little harder to learn on cause I'm ok with getting thrown off in the beginning. Thanks everyone.
Posted By: Rhino1302 Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/03/06 08:13 PM
Where do you live? If you want good competition, you should find out which boats are being actively raced in your area.
Posted By: Dan_Delave Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/03/06 08:35 PM
At 190 you are already limited on the boats that you could sail competitively. I am 190 and sail Formula 18s. The other choice you have is a Formula 20. The 18s are a way larger participation world wide. If you are in Florida or the Great Lakes then the Formula 20 (Inter 20) may be a fine boat. You do need to know who your competitors are and sail the boat that they are on or you may not see any racing.
Later,
Dan
Posted By: Robi Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/03/06 09:19 PM
Sorry but the I20 class in FL is on a serious decline Dan. F18 and now F16 and the usual Hobie 16s is where the action is at.
I weigh 180-185 and usually race my f16 uni-rigged. Although I prefer SLOOP. At a 190lbs weight you will need an extra light crew.
But the most important question here is what Rhino said, where do you live?
Posted By: JamesCarl Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/03/06 10:23 PM
I live in NC in the Raleigh area.
Posted By: bvining Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/03/06 10:30 PM
190 is a good weight for an ACat.
Posted By: Dan_Delave Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/03/06 10:43 PM
Bill:
I think this may be the clue.
[color:"blue"]From: JamesCarl
Could anyone recommend a good boat I could purchase (I like fast:)? I have friends that sail in the area so I don't really want a single hander.[/color]
JamesCarl:
In NC I think that the Formula 18 would be a great choice for you! There must be some good deals on boats (f18s) in the area right now as it seems that there are so many sailors that have bought or a ready to buy boats.
Later,
Dan
Posted By: tback Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/03/06 11:04 PM
NCSUtrey (username) on this forum lives in Raleigh/Durham area. You can find him at
www.teamvelocity.com.He might be able to help you with local knowledge about boats for sale and which are racing competitively.
Posted By: F18OxJ Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/04/06 01:25 AM
Yeah, I would definitely go with a F18. A high tech boat that will keep you learning for years and a great growing competitive fleet in the southwest. You also have a good choice of used and new boats available for purchase.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/04/06 01:54 AM
If you can't find a good used F18, I would look for a used I-20. It would handle you and ANY crew you wanted to put on it.
Just my opinion,
Doug Snell
Posted By: Jake Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/04/06 02:11 AM
James,
You are in a pretty good spot. There is a large active class of F18's in NC, SC, and GA and a slowly growing I20 fleet in the same area (Robi - they are NOT dead but are only shifting demographic slightly). FL is not far away for a lot of spectacular racing. There are several competitive F18 and I20 sailors around you.
You didn't mention what kind of budget you are looking at. A decent used F18 is going to go at least $8k and above. Same goes for an I20. There are a ton of other options in older classes too.
Posted By: Robi Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/04/06 03:31 AM
[quote(Robi - they are NOT dead but are only shifting demographic slightly). FL is not far away for a lot of spectacular racing. There are several competitive F18 and I20 sailors around you.[/quote]Jake, I never said DEAD. There are good ammount of sailors by me true. All three Castrol I20 sail in the same club I sail in. Kenny Pierce as well. I am a mortal walking upon superstars! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
I20s down here are mostly doing the distance stuff now. Around the cans, the I20 is on a decline.
Posted By: JamesCarl Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/04/06 03:44 AM
Thats around what my budget is. Where do you think the best place to look for a used F18 is?
Posted By: Dlennard Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/04/06 03:50 AM
Where is Trey when you need him. I have a F18 for sale in Wilmington NC (see add in the classified section 2005 Nacra).
Mike has it listed for sale.
Posted By: MauganN20 Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/04/06 12:37 PM
You just missed out on two I20's fo sale in Raleigh :P
(I just happened to get one)
and our website is
www.velocitysailing.com(not teamvelocity)
Call Trey Brown to get the skinny... 919.302.0880 He's definitely the one to talk to.
Posted By: Todd Berget Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/04/06 12:55 PM
Glad to hear you want to come over to the dark side!!! Based on your size (and since you are talking about racing), I would lean more towards an I20. This also depends a bit on who you think you'll be racing with most of the time. F18's competetive weight is around 330 total. I20's can take considerably more weight. I weigh 210 and usually sail with my wife. even she and I combined are too heavy for an F18, and it gets worse when i have my buddies crew (then i'm pushing 400 total). Definitely best to give Trey a call. He can give you a good idea of what else is in the area. It would be even better if you could get out on one of each as well (and Trey might be able to hook you up with a ride). Good Luck!!
Posted By: waterbug_wpb Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/04/06 02:35 PM
Not having sailed an F18, I can only vouch for the N20, which I find to be the best for heavier crews. I am 180, my crew is 190, and we were on the lighter side of some of the teams we raced (and occasionally lost to!)
That being said, there is a rumor that it takes a bit more "beef" to handle the cordage on the N20 (spin sheet, main, etc.) but in my conversations with those that have raced both F18 and N20, I think that is just a rumor.
For example, I believe the spin halyards are of similar diameter, and yanking the spin up/down on both boats can get hard on the crew. Spin sheet loads aren't much different, unless you're sailing an F18 with the small sail plan (which you wouldn't with your combined crew weight).
The F18 fleet is growing on the buoy circuit, but I haven't seen tons of them in distance racing. There are a few F18 owners who used to (or still do) own N20s, and are just chasing the rock stars as they move from fleet to fleet. Most of them were sailing the 5.5s before the N20 if memory serves. It's kind of a cyclical thing.
Whichever boat you decide on, know that they are built strongly, well laid out, and parts / service are readily available. You will have plenty of fleet racing in either group (if you are okay with driving to regattas), and there are top notch sailors all around.
Posted By: hokie Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/04/06 04:02 PM
Hi James I am in Raleigh as well and just got a catamaran after racing on monohulls quite a bit. I still plan on racing monos but wanted something more convenient since traveling to New Bern and southern chesapeake gets tiring.
I looked at the F18s and think they are great but decided against because 1. I really couldn't afford it (especially if I wanted to race) and 2. I didn't want to scare my girlfriend too much. I decided on a nacra 5.0 that had been sitting in a barn for most of its life.
I won't pretend to know the cat racing scene but I do know that on lake Jordan and Kerr Lake they race Isotopes. However, they aren't really rough water boats if you plan on going to the coast often.
I would contact both Trey (he is in raleigh and his name on this site is NCSUTrey) and Dan (he is in Va Beach and his name on this site is DanBerger). They both always have or know of a few used boats. I almost purchased a decent Nacra 5.7 Dan told me about.
Posted By: NCSUtrey Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/04/06 08:02 PM
You rang?
Get an I20. F18s are for weenies. The I20 is the most bad *noodle* boat I've ever sailed on, and you won't be disappointed...I've got a brand new one sitting in my driveway, and can hook you up with one as well...call me.
(919)-302-0880
Posted By: Jake Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/04/06 11:03 PM
You rang?
Get an I20. F18s are for weenies. The I20 is the most bad *noodle* boat I've ever sailed on, and you won't be disappointed...I've got a brand new one sitting in my driveway, and can hook you up with one as well...call me.
(919)-302-0880
Alrighty now...that was across the line. Apparently there are a lot of "weenies" in this area and the "weenies" outnumber the I20 sailors by a pretty large margin. And to think, I stood up for you a few posts back.
Posted By: NCSUtrey Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/05/06 12:08 AM
Notice: Jake Kohl is the only F18 sailor that is not a weenie. Previous comment did not in any way apply to or around Mr. Kohl. That is all.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/05/06 12:21 AM
Posted By: hobie1616 Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/05/06 12:36 AM
Posted By: MauganN20 Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/05/06 01:13 PM
I think there have been funnybone removal procedures going around :P
Posted By: Wet1 Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/05/06 04:03 PM
You ****s are making me want a N20... if there were one for sale in CT I would probably buy the damn thing now. Stop it! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Chris9 Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/05/06 04:38 PM
Hmmmm....http://new-england-catamarans.com/hot.html
"2004 NACRA (INTER) 20
In excellent condition, stored indoors in winter. Raced one season then only sailed a few times. Carbon mast, spinnaker with snuffer system. Daggerboards, rudders and sails in great condition. Includes an almost new galvanized trailer with cradles and a sail tube and new Cat Trax (used once). Located in CT. Asking $12,000."
Dooit, Dooooooit, you won't regret it.
Posted By: Wouter Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/05/06 04:47 PM
The question presents itself of why so many "great I-20's" deals are on offer at this particular time.
If it is such a great boat and class shouldn't there be a shortage of second hand boat ?
I rest my case.
Wouter
Posted By: Wet1 Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/05/06 04:52 PM
Chris,
If they had a smiley beating the crap out of another smiley, I'd be posting that right now! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Todd Berget Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/05/06 05:15 PM
Hmm.... check the classies on this very site. A 2000 in Mass. for $8500. come on, you know you want it.
Wout, given the number of I20's built, there is actually a fairly low number of second hand boats for sale. I know, cause I was looking for one a while ago. Now, i'don't want to get into a debate about one class being better than another (especially since I'm the first to admit the flaws of an SMOD class), but if you are a heavier person that wants to race double handed, this is really the best option in the US right now (or going on a serious diet, but i don't consider that a great option).
Posted By: Chris9 Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/05/06 05:23 PM
Thanks, you made my day! pst ..... its a great boat!!!!
Posted By: Wet1 Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/05/06 06:02 PM
The question presents itself of why so many "great I-20's" deals are on offer at this particular time.
If it is such a great boat and class shouldn't there be a shortage of second hand boat ?
I rest my case.
Wouter
While I've given a lot of thought to a F16, my weight suggests I look elsewhere. I was 225 lb. (102 kg) this morning. For single handing this might work on a F16, but for doubles I'd need to find a dwarf to crew! I like the idea of something like the I20 because it gives me the freedom to grab just about anyone for crew.
Racing isn't the only use for beach cats. The reality is most people use their cat more for recreational usage than for racing (certainly my plan anyway). The I20 also allows me to bring the chick out w/o as much concern with pitchpolling, plus it offers more room on the tramp for other activities. I haven't PP my H16 yet with her on the boat, but I can tell you it would be the last time she got on the boat if it were to happen with her on it! I want to keep sailing a 'positive' experience for her rather than having her associate sailing with being violently beaten up then ending up in the water for all of those hungry sharks to attack her (you know the deal...). I certainly don't have to keep her interested in sailing, but it sure keeps the door open for spending more time on the boat. Not to mention this is how I'm trying to justify spending $12k for a used rinky-dink beach cat! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Wet1 Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/05/06 06:08 PM
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
pst ..... its a great boat!!!!
A**hole! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Banzilla Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/05/06 06:15 PM
maybe you could use this one
Posted By: Todd Berget Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/05/06 06:56 PM
huh?? you guys must have sailed with Chris before?
Posted By: Dan_Delave Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/05/06 07:01 PM
Wet1:
Something like this?
Posted By: waterbug_wpb Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/05/06 07:01 PM
Which begs the question....
what is the ratio of "for sale" boats to total produced boats in the F18, N20, and F16 fleets? Does a high ratio necessarily mean it is a "dying" class or platform?
I believe there are more than 500 boats produced in each of the F18 and N20 classes, right? Would that give any statistical weight to this answer?
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/05/06 07:18 PM
Posted By: sailwave Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/05/06 07:24 PM
Posted By: pitchpoledave Re: Suggestions on Cat? - 10/05/06 10:02 PM
What? Stop trolling you dork.
Posted By: Wouter I made a joke guys ! - 10/05/06 10:23 PM
I made a joke guys.
I wasn't pushing the F16 line here at all.
I would say that he should look for an inexpensive nacra 5.7 or 570 before going to a full I-20.
Wouter
Posted By: MauganN20 Re: I made a joke guys ! - 10/06/06 03:54 AM
While I20s may be being bought and sold, the Alter Cup boats went FAST from what I was told.
Plus, as long as there aren't orphaned I20's sitting on the beach with nobody to love them, I'd say they are holding their own quite nicely.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb Re: I made a joke guys ! - 10/06/06 04:19 PM
Word!
Posted By: Wet1 Re: I made a joke guys ! - 10/07/06 02:16 AM
You guys are brutal! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Wet1 Re: I made a joke guys ! - 10/07/06 02:17 AM
the Alter Cup boats went FAST from what I was told.
Please excuse my ignorance, but what were the Alter Cup boats? Was there a special version of the I20 with the AC name that I missed, or are you referring to the F18?
Posted By: mike220 Re: I made a joke guys ! - 10/07/06 02:28 AM
Boats from the alter cup.
Just had to say it, especially with a topic like "I made a joke guys"
Posted By: NCSUtrey Re: I made a joke guys ! - 10/07/06 04:07 AM
This year's Alter Cup was on Nacra/Inter 20's. Where have you been, under a rock?
Posted By: Wet1 Re: I made a joke guys ! - 10/07/06 04:36 PM
Yep, sorry I don't follow these things closely.
Posted By: NCSUtrey Re: I made a joke guys ! - 10/07/06 05:41 PM
James Carl still hasn't contacted me...you out there James?
Posted By: drbinkle Re: I made a joke guys ! - 10/08/06 01:13 AM
Somebody must have told him about you. Last I heard he was in VA Beach buying a boat from Dan. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />