worrell 1000 Question?

worrell 1000 Question?, What went wrong & was the money paid out?

I posted a race event that I am currently working on offering $234,000.00 In Cash Prizes, In the threads there was a mention of comparison to the worrell 1000 and that I should read up on it. While doing so, all I could find are numerous people stories of racing in the event, all positive, as well a really nice website on it all, that runs until I think if memory serves correctly 2001. As the reference in my thread lead me to believe something went wrong with the event, I would like to know more as to avoid any of the same mistakes.

I have a questions regarding a race where $1,000,000 in prize money was supposed to be paid out.
Was the prize money paid out for the worrell 1000 cat race?
What went wrong in this event if anything?
Is there a good link to find out more, on it all?
Does this event still happen or what has happened?

thanks, just wondering on it all?
http://ca.geocities.com/sail.2007@rogers.com

Start by doing a search on the forum here...

Oh man, I think people are so inredibly tired of talking about what happened but I'll get you started on your quest to find more information:



No. The race never happened. The entrance fees were never returned to those who paid up.


Well I guess nothing went wrong with it since it never happened. See point above.


Type in "Worrell 1000" or "That bastard still has my money" into the search engine on this site and you'll find plenty.


No, the tybee 500 has replaced it as the premier distance event on the east coast. http://www.tybee500.com

I'll bite....

Ok, there were two situations going on with the last scheduled Worrell 1000.

First the 1,000,000 dollar "prize"
The idea was that each team would put up 20k that would go into an "escrow account" (cough cough) and then be paid out to the top teams at the completion of the event. Do the math and you'll see that this required 50 teams to put up the cash. First... there are not 50 teams out there with a real chance to win the event, so how would you get them to put up the money?. Second, a team with a 20k budget is in the upper 10% of the racers, so for any team to come up with an additional 20k after their expenses... not gonna happen.

Now, the other issue.... this is a hot button topic.
Mike promised the teams; a new boat, a truck and two hotel rooms for the race. That's 13 days + 2 or 3 days before the race to get ready. Cost? Only 5k, a deal at twice the price (you know the old saying a/b sounding too good to be true). Sadly, all the sailors that ponied up the dough got swindled out of their money. I know quite a few had judgments against Mike, but... blood from a turnip.

I think he offered their money back at 150% towards the 2004 race, but as we all know that didn't and never was going to happen.

It's sad too b/c it was a great event. Nothing like two night legs, the north Atlantic and Cape Hatteras to put hair on your chest ;-) I'd do it again... with a better skipper and better dry suit.

thank you, for taking the time to explain this too me. The event did look good. Its a shame the event went this way, and the deposits were all lost.

thanks for your time on the subject will, it explains alot,20k is alot of cash to expend plus those added costs, you were speaking of. You would think that at some point prior this event, they would have realized thier error's, making an announcement that the race would not take place, and return the deposits made. I think that this posibly could have at the very least, salvaged the event for the following year. That way they could have gone back to the drawing board, sharpened thier pencils, corrected those error's. This is crappy

Ok, so from the threads I read here, I am concluding that it wasn't the race itself but, the trust placed into the race organizers, and thier mismanagement of funds acquired towards the event, followed by the loss of entrants fee's or the deposits made, that subsequently lead to its end.

So In this it would be very apparent, that I would have my work cut out for me, on my Own Event.
What if anything, would anyone suggest, that would guarantee those funds and or deposits?
would a trust account with a bank, suffice, whereby the bank would only release to organizers, thier part of those funds, once the minimum number of enterants were reached. The bank also would hold back all prize monies, as well releasing those prizes to those who win?

hello,
how did you come up with the # 234,000?

the best way to guarantee funds is to have the funds. most event organizers have the trust of the sponsors and racers, and the racer's organization. this is because most organizers want to do another event in the future.
there have been sailing events with the kind of prize money you mentioned, and the prize checks take weeks to arrive sometimes. i assume this is because some of the money must be transferred from the sponsor to the organizer after the event takes place. assumptions are often wrong however.

if you are looking to take large deposits from the sailors to use as prize $ you better be an awefully good sales person

That would be a reasonable conclusion if you were to accept that those who responded knew the whole story.

I salute your endeavour and look forward to the coverage.

The only real way to offer prize money is to get a sponsor to put the money up as part of the event, in return the sponsor gets publicity. The Newport regatta gave away Volkswagen leases this year as prizes, but the entry fee didnt increase to cover the prizes. Volkswagen ponied up the cash for the leased cars.

The entry fees should go towards expenses, not prize money.

My question is, why do we need prize money? We're not professionals, we do this for fun. Put on a good event and they will come.

Bill

We don't need prize money.

I race for the fun of it, and the pride of competing. I have a feeling that I'm not the only one. I'm still of the opinion that throwing money at our sport would lead to all kinds of bad things amongst competitors. I saw it happen in my previous ameteur-gone-pro sport, and I'd really not like to see it happen here.

To be honest I wont participate in a race where cash will be paid to the top finishers.

What am I going to do with cash? go and waste it? If I get a small trophy I will look at the trophy and remember the race and good times I had with friends and such.

IMO not a good idea.

You could always buy a bigger boat.

It would be nice if Rick and Mary where to collectively write a full narrative on this subject and have a permanent record of this once classic event on this site.

The good, the bad man, and the ugly truth.

Cash as a prize would draw more top teams, but turn off beginners and some of the weekend warriors. If the prize money came from the entrance fee, I imagine there could be some hard feelings and resentment as well. Many events offer prize money to the winners, but there is usually not much emphasis on it. The Volvo Champions race offer a substantial prize, but this is sponsor money.

For some Volvo CR videos:
http://www.fly-tornado.de/bilder/videos/tornado_wmv.wmv
http://www.volvocars-aktionen.de/vcr/rueckblick2004_video.html


Personally, I dont think we need more agression and 'will to win' on the race course. There is plenty of testosterone going around as it is <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
When it comes to prizes, I like useful items like gloves, blocks etc. or something from the sponsors. The "traditional" prizes we have won, like engraved glasses/mugs etc. started out at the back of a cabinet. Now my wife have put them in a cardboard box and put the box in storage. It will be fun looking at them the next time we relocate, but it's the preparations, competition and good memories from the event thats the real motivation to go to events, at least for us.

Robi, you would have to win first (doh!) If you do win some cash though, I'll be glad to waste it for you (me).

Personally, I'm not opposed to prize money. The quible and cheating happens anyway even without it. HOWEVER, I don't think many of our existing race managements (speaking very generally) are tight enough to handle the responsibility that comes with cash payouts, rules, and proper penalties.

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Us mortals cant afford big boats <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> OUCH! hahahaha What ya gonna do for the Alter cup my man? Better get used to this little rocket. I can lend you mine if you lend me yours <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
What is why I said what I said. I am going to leave empty handed <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> No money fo me = no fun. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

The $234,000.00 in prize money

The event is a high stakes race, meaning that yes the money comes from the enterence fee's paid. This is why it is important to enshure a system or manner of collecting the funds, that each enterant or sailor would be comfortible with, enshureing them that if the minimum number of enterants were not achieved by a certain date, that any funds (deposits) paid would automatically be returned back to those that entered.

my thoughts on how I propose to do are as follows, so if anyone see's a problem with this method, I would like to have your thoughts as to why there could potentially be a problem, as well any solutions or recomendations you have.

1st Interested enterants only notify of thier intent to Race providing all details of the series they wish to race in and for what period (series)....NO money nor deposit

There is a minimum number of enterants required for the race to happen, so knowing this the number of interested parties collected will be higher than the number actually needed.....to account for those who do not follow through, or change thier minds.

If by a predetermined date more than enough interested enterants have expressed interest we continue to No.2

No.2 the deposit, this would be sent direct to the bank where the event trust is set up, not to the organizers of the event. A predetermined date is established on the collection of it, meaning simply that if the required number was not achieved by the time and date established here, the bank would simply return the funds to those they recieved them from. One thing to note here is, when the interested parties express thier interest in the event, they did so by filling out a form, this inturn gives them a reservation number a placement number, so when the above takes place (required numbers achieved) a notice is sent to these enterants for thier deposits (twenty percent, balance due in the same manner several weeks prior the event)they will have 72 hrs to do so upon thier notification date, if they didn't, then the next reservation in series is notified, and so on. This is so that funds collected are not held for any legnth of time should the race not achive its minimum number, thus monies being promptly refunded at 100%.
the link is where the form is if you wish to see it.
http://ca.geocities.com/sail.2007@rogers.com/index_files/Page1241.htm


3rd If the proper number is achieved the event is held.

On sponsor's there are prizes and awards etc. here too, they are over and above the cash prizes,this works like any other event.

Sail2007,

I'm being perfectly honest here - but I'm unable to locate your actual name or anyone's name with this organization on your website. Even if I had the interest and/or the money there is very little chance I would put it up entrusting an organization that is so clouded. For all we know, you could be a person that has had legal issues with something like this in the past or, heaven forbid, this could even be a scam. Before I sent anyone $2800 I would certainly want to know who was behind it and what reputation they have.

The fact that nearly $250,000 is expected and the website for the event is hosted on a free and public Geocities account leads me down the road of further concern since nobody's real name need be associated with the domain registration. For that level of sport, one would at least expect that the event would have it's own domain name.

You're asking for a lot of faith from your competitors.

So, how much is the “vig?”

How much of the entry fee goes towards expenses?

What’s your cut?

Have you done any forecasting on what the expenses will be?

Do you have an organization in place to execute the pre-sail, sail and post-sail activities?

Who are you? When talking about $234,000 of other people’s money you’d be much more believable if you could spell entrance, ensure, entrant, comfortable, ensuring and entrants. Did you ever live in B.C. and were involved in Australian imports?

Problem #1: The race is on U18's, not on catamarans. Im already bored.

I have a file drawer filled with the chronicles of all of the most recent series of Worrell 1000's. But, the only person who knows the truth about the demise of this event is Mike Worrell. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I have several theories about this, but not one of them includes Mike Worrell deliberately trying to defraud people or destroy the race that he loved so much.

Jake said:
And than Hobie1616 Said:

And I was ready to send in my entry fee <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sounds like an obvious scam to me. Catamaran sailors must have a reputation for gullibility. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Okay, I finally found the web site for the race. Yes, it is for monohulls. So let them be gullible.

If there is prize money, it should come from sponsors, not from the participants.

LMAO WTF! MONOHULLS FTL Sail2007 GTFO

and yes that is a full sentence hahaha

The idea of prize money (or professional races) has been tried several times in cats and each time without success. If I recall, it was Randy Smyth (could beat an RC 27 with a bathtub) that so aptly put it when he opted not to sail, "I don't want to take money from my friends."
Rick

Robi, I would not dare to try to translate that "sentence." <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Not to beat a really dead and rotting horse, but I have to agree with Mary. The theory that MW would purposly scam a bunch of sailors out of maybe, $150,000 and in the course of doing this destroy the race he started 20 years ago, kill off his main source of income and simultaniously destroy his family name is preposterous.

Do other details really matter? The overall picture is pretty clear: Mike Worrell screwed up, found himself without the funds to put on the event or repay the competitors or other debtors, then compounded the problem by unilaterally (the way he did everything) pulling the plug just days before the start.

Not long ago Mike contacted me and wanted me to write a story about a comback he was planning (and wanted final editing rights to the story, which I would not give him). He wouldn't provide clear details, but the implication was it involved a Hollywood-based television producer and a reality TV show. Obviously this never got off the ground.

Thankyou Jake,
very good points, and I do thank you for you honest feelings on it all. My Name is Mark J. Daggett, the site is on a free server and it was simply put up, as a temporary site until the other site is completed (taking into account such things as feed back like you have done here), in order to get the information out there to the public, to generate in basic the interest on it all. I will from this feed back add another link on the site so that information you stated will be there. Thanks!

rolf thanks I enjoyed what you wrote here on the lower half of your post.

I have placed alot of thought when designing the race, as to tring to make it as fair as possible to multiple skill levels, the testosterone levels etc. such as corporations entering so called dream teams etc. as well professionals entering and trying to dominate the event etc.

Trying to make it basic here but in short:
the Corporations, all race against one another
the Pro's if any enter, all race against each other
there are 2 of the series set aside to accomodate this.
then everyone else, all the rest...

Now yes, the best from each series will go on and eventually meet that pro-team or that dream team, but my thoughts on this is that by that point they should all be of the same caliber of sailor. For me personally, I would love to win my series, inturn racing against a known great, what a win it would be, or atleast, I hope that I would make good competion anyways.

I also understand your points on the volvo race etc. sponsored by the lets say, the big leagues. Its one of the reasons for planning this one out. The best way to answer you on this one, simply is go and try and get in on one. It simply does not happen. Not to mention the boat and where it come from?

The resentment is also a large one, this one I cannot control. So all I can do on this, is state that a person should expect to loose or that its not a race to place your mortgage on. Its a high stakes event, that if you do not win 1,2,3 in your series than you've just lost a big chunk of change.

Thanks for you good input..

thank you john for those words of support...

MauganN20

No I agree for many probably the majority, the way events are run are fine the way they are, the weekend races etc. also the awards and prizes are terrific too.

What I am proposing to do here is far from attempting to replace the manner in which events are held today. My Intent is only offer another option for those who would like to take it all to the next level.

well journeyman,

thanks for the input but really unshure what this means, made me laugh though

OBXGator
newbie

I too think this would be a good thing.

thanks jake for your input, its useful.

How much of the entry fee goes towards expenses? all money over and above the prize money is slated towards the expense factors, as well the unforseen factors.

What’s your cut? This I would suppose would simply be anything left, if at all after all prize payouts and all other associated costs are paid, following the event.

Have you done any forecasting on what the expenses will be?
The answer is to this is simply yes & its alot.
Do you have an organization in place to execute the pre-sail, sail and post-sail activities?
Again Yes, several for each series, on each day, more info will be on the new site as to exactly who, but what is important at this time is "participants", that are interested in actually attending the event. If those numbers are not there than neither is the event. Again the reason no money is asked for, No not even the deposit, simply those who would attend.
Who are you? When talking about $234,000 of other people’s money you’d be much more believable if you could spell entrance, ensure, entrant, comfortable, ensuring and entrants. Did you ever live in B.C. and were involved in Australian imports? lol, why are some people so big on spelling, its only a thread not a contract. if U think this is bad spellin, u should c me in a chat session. I am only tring to respond quickly to posts here. As for BC yes, Austrailian imports No, and nothing wrong with an aussie....good people rank right up there with newfoundlander's

lol funny,
No thier U20's and there fast.
No disrespect to all you cat guys and gails out there, the thread was a question on the worrel 1000, so what better place to go than to the pro's on it thats you guys. Ask a cat sailor about a cat event.
Now whats a waterskier do when he wants a little more of a challenge, yup he drops a ski. So drop a pontune...hey this was only fair....to each thier own myfriend.

This too was my thought mary when I read of the worrel event on the web.
My thoughts are that he spent deposits before the numbers were there to support it, or used them in that lawsuit that was launched. I wasn't all that keen on its structure,from what I have been told. The million dollars is Cool, but probably reaching for the sky.

Pretty quick in Judgement don't you think! you stated obvious scam? I find this interesting considering that I was only asking for knowledge of the worrell 1000, followed buy a request for input, as to how enterence fee's could be collected and protected for the racer. As well any ideas or contributions others had, to make this event better etc.

Vague responses. Conclusion? Avoid.

Uh, I guess this isnt a good time to talk about my idea for a race without sails...you know...any boat can enter. We all start upwind of the finish line, no paddling allowed althought you could scull your rudders...

I figure big fat people with billowing clothes and a lot of windage will win it...

I only need y'all to put up, say $ 10K apiece to put it together. See, its lots cheaper if I cheat you than one of these big money guys....

Never mind.

Nowadays any post asking for money in the Net smells like a scam.

If you want to collect money and don't want it to look like a scam, the financials of your sailing event must be reliable, verifiable and easy to understand.

You smay ask for deposits in an escrow account in a bank, provided that the rules governing the account are well prepared.

Alternatively, you may use a reliable trustee. A well reputed treasurer of a well reputed yacht club or fleet is a strong candidate. Unknown people are not eligible - and that probably means you.

By the way: I would never send money to anyone writing in English with more mistakes than I do. Those mistakes are too simmilar to those found in scams. Find an educated adult to help you. find a fleet or yacht club to help too.

Ok, simply put I happen to be quite Educated, I do not however place much stock, value or worth in a misspelled word or even a few, as apparently some do, maybe I should, but I do not. It is not an easy task to take the necessary time to read and understand in the run of a day, multiple posts, emails, letters questions, what have you. Then sit down and respond to each one individually, promptly etc. Now combine that with your own agenda, Dailey routine of work, planning an event, making calls, contacts meetings etc. Now don't forget to include your family in there somewhere. Ok I thought about this, I am sure its the information and rapid reply that's important, not whether or not a word is exact or not.

thanks for the feedback on the other items you wrote of, I will keep that in mind upon setting things up at the bank. When I do so, I will post exactly how the trust account will work, taking into account all concerns, suggestions and feed back. Also, before there is any requirement for a deposit etc. There first must be enough Interested teams to support the event. No money is required until I at least have that, then the decision will be made to, carry it all out, not before. If or when this takes place those funds will go not to me, to a trust set up with a recognizable bank it will be that bank who will make payment of the prize. Any documentation as to this agreement to the bank, will be downloadable on the web site, complete with contacts numbers etc. I hope that this method will be satisfactory to all concerned, if not and there needs to be more done, than now would be the time for those suggestions on it.
thanks

I believe I can speak for most of the members of this forum. Your credibility here is questionable at best. You talk of big payoffs but don’t have the wherewithal to establish even the most rudimentary organization to run a bare bones regatta. You’ve milked this forum for information that is basic knowledge for any YC or fleet RCC. You claim that you’re “quite Educated” but discount the value of proper spelling. You continually claim that no money will be required until enough interest is generated but your freebie web site demands a credit card number. And, on top of everything else, your proposed regatta is sailed on monohulls.

Let’s summarize. No credibility, no organization, no money, no knowledge and, no multihulls. You’ve come to the wrong place. Find a monohull forum for your daydreams. They may be more receptive but don’t hold your breath.

Ouch. Well stated, and right between the eyes. I like this guy.

Now, I got this email this morning from a guy in Nigeria who has $ 20 million to run a race, and only needs me to give him my banking details and I can be a partner....

Who needs cash prizes? We have T-Shirts, Ye Olde Lawn Chair and Busch beer, not to mention all of the "good people" that we are blessed with.

Cash would just suck the fun right out of the whole deal. It would be great for a few........

I have been doing a little research. And I have also been in e-mail contact with Mark Daggett, who seems sincere and now seems to be able to spell. (Did somebody else write that one post for him?) I have told Mark that I am very skeptical about this whole thing.

On Mark Daggett's web site he clearly says, at the very beginning of the description of the event that, "The event will consist of 12 sailboats 'one design' donated for the event period by our official manufacturer."

So I e-mailed the manufacturer, and he says this is not so. The manufacturer is not involved with this event, although he is trying to help Mark locate boats that could be used in the event.

That seems iffy to me, since only 200 Ultimate 20's have been built and 160 of those sold in North America. Sounds like at the very least 12 current U20 owners would have to agree to give up use of their boats for an entire sailing season and relocate them to Lake Petitcodia. This seems doubtful, even if Mark pays substantial charter fees to the owners of the boats for all of the 11 or 12 regattas in the series.

Anyway, Mark now claims he did not say that the manufacturer would be supplying/donating the boats. But the statement is still right there on the web site. (Again, maybe there is more than one person involved.)

A BIG item of concern is that Mark says he plans to sail in the event himself. I think this is a MAJOR conflict of interest for the organizer of a high-stakes money regatta. Figure it out. I have done the math, and you can do it if you care.

Also I have done a lot of research about this "lake" that they are going to use for this series. Google "Lake Petitcodia".

After these last few replies I am interested to see what this guy has to say.

"adios" comes to mind..

He might not want to come back...

Mary, I Googled the Lake you put up but only found a recommended spelling "Petitcodiac" which is a river with a "recreational head pond" called Lake Petitcodiac. It's also known as the "Chocolate River" because of the water color and is one of the few rivers that actually has a tidal wave with the incoming ocean tide. It sure doesn't sound like a terrific place to sail - but it leads me to believe that it's not really a scam because certainly someone could dream up something better than that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petitcodiac_River

So its about sailing a monohull, in muddy waters up in Canada. Not really into monohulls unless its a sports boat, I dont like muddy waters and Canada is too cold for my blood.

[quote]I believe I can speak for most of the members of this forum. Your credibility here is questionable at best. You talk of big payoffs but don’t have the wherewithal to establish even the most rudimentary organization to run a bare bones regatta. You’ve milked this forum for information that is basic knowledge for any YC or fleet RCC. You claim that you’re “quite Educated” but discount the value of proper spelling. You continually claim that no money will be required until enough interest is generated but your freebie web site demands a credit card number. And, on top of everything else, your proposed regatta is sailed on monohulls.

excuse me but, no credit card number is asked for on the form, only what means you intend to pay with, should you decide to carry it through, that's it that's all. As for the other statements here, just let me say that at the top or in the beginning as it were, the question posed was for information and knowledge on the Worrall 1000 Cat race. Who would know best on this issue, cat sailor who raced in this, or monohulls.......exactly

Just a note here
The lake is not known as the chocolate river, the river is, the lake is feed from 2 rivers as well a reservoir that supplies the Cities drinking water.

The photo you have posted here is on the wrong side of things, the photo is that of the river, not the lake. The tide does not enter the lake, rather the other way around, the overflow from a spillway enters the river.

Mary,
If an organization, manufacturer, supplier etc. were assisting you, would you not also give them that credit.
Lets assume these boats are there, they are, and I did not use math to achieve this.
Lets also make an assumption the money is there to carry the event through, it simply is, if the participants are. This is where that math come in.
Lets also count on my racing in this event should it take place, again it is dependent on the number of participants.
The race is governed by a body of race officials, none of which I Know, applying the racing rules of sailing, the boats are "One design" meaning exact in every respect, and issued to participants by way of a draw on the first day of the race.I am only organizing the event, to make it happen, others will make up the board to apply it. there is no conflict of interest all is equal in every respect.

I wish to thank everyone for their answers, suggestions as well comments to my Re: worrell 1000 Question? It has been most helpful. Should anyone wish to add something they feel would make this event better, please do I will be looking for those suggestions. In doing so please keep it constructive and useful.

There’s a difference between donated and assisting. In this case, the manufacturer is trying to locate owners that will charter boats for an extended period. As someone who claims to be “quite Educated” you should know the difference. Your failure to use the proper description takes another bite out of your credibility.

You make a number of assumptions. Boats, money, participants, etc. When you’re asking people to pony up a large sum of money for a blue-sky event then assumptions just don’t cut it. Assumptions are the mother of all screw-ups.

With the proposed scope of your blue-sky event, how can you even think of competing? I’ve run a number of weekend events with an excellent staff to support me and never got my tootsies wet (except for the time I fell off the committee boat). Is the fix in?

Race officials? Others will make up the board organizing the event? Who are they? If you haven’t got them lined up and organizing then you’re almost a year behind. You appear here on November 2 to start asking questions about a big money event that’s suppose to start in six or seven months and expect anyone to believe it’s for real? Do you have permits for the venue? Do you have insurance? Do you have anything except a freebie web site with a bunch of half-truths? Inquiring minds really want to know, if for no other reason, the entertainment value.

Not willing to comment on sail2007 or his event (because I don't know him), but to answer the question of why he's here talking to cat sailors. Its because I sent him here.

He was plugging his event in the sportsboat section of sailing anarchy, and someone bought up the Worrell. When no one was forth coming with more info, I recommended that he should come here and ask cat sailors about a cat event.

The event wasn't so well received over there either...

Sailing Anarchy Thread

Mark, I hope that the things I have brought up will help you in planning and organizing, because they are the kinds of things that other people will also ask to determine the credibility of both you and the event.

Specifically in terms of you participating in the event, my question would be: Will there be a rule that does not allow any team to participate more than once in the elimination rounds?

For all we know, you are a hotshot sailor who is going to clean up on this financially -- or at least be able to use some of the regatta registration money to make it possible for you to pay to participate in enough of the elimination events to get into the finals. Or maybe even ALL of the elimination events even AFTER you have qualified, just so you can win the smaller prize monies, too.

And even if you DO make a rule that everyone can only participate once, since you are the organizer and are able to decide what teams are going to be in the various eliminations, it would be easy for you to decide to schedule yourself in an elimination that has a bunch of "losers." You know what I mean?

Just something to think about, that other people might think about. That is why I said it is a conflict of interest for the organizer to be sailing in a money regatta. And that is why I said, "Do the math."

Sounds like a good deal to me -- let other people pay my entry fee into nine regattas.

As I have already said, I think you are sincere in your mission, but you have a long way to go to establish credibility. And I know I am not helping much.

Those SA guys don't hold back. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Fascinating thread on SA. Especially the responses to the criticisms.

sail2007, hmmm, mw? Is that you?

TRYNG TO SEE IF THERE IS ANY LINGERING INTEREST?

Probing, checking....

I can spelle

sail2007,
I'm curious how you're going to get your hands on 12 U20s. Abbott Boatworks has had a waiting list of people that have already paid deposits on new boats. How are they going to have time to make 12 before your event?

As for getting other U20s, I know quite a few U20 sailors and very few of them would be willing to give up their boats for an entire season.

I thank you for your comments scarecrow, as well the referral to this site, it for the most part has been most helpful.

Yes Mary,
Many of these things that both you and others have posted, have been most constructive, helpful and useful, in continued planning on this event, and organizing it in a manner that hopefully in the final draft will be satisfactory to those who enter. You are most certainly correct when you state, it will be the kinds of things asked and requested of me, this was one of my reasons in continuing with this thread when it changed from the question I originally asked, to picking apart my own event, changes are already in progress on it, thanks to feedback found on this terrific site.

In review of the stats to date from this site on the Question I originally asked: worrell 1000?
1359 persons visited the post on your site
67 including all my posts responded with their thoughts, opinions, feedback, concerns, assistance of knowledge, suggestions etc.
some 667 persons to date from this site visited mine to at least check it out, to form their own thoughts or interest on the event.

There is more but in short, this at least tells me there is a interest in this type of event, but for the most part those interested want more concrete, credible details and assurances, prior to taking a few minutes to fill out a form, even if that form is nothing more than saying, hey I would attend, reserve me a place. I do intend to provide this and much more.

Mary you asked
Specifically in terms of you participating in the event, my question would be: Will there be a rule that does not allow any team to participate more than once in the elimination rounds? Yes, this is a good rule, your point is well noted, and I will include this in the "official notice of race", once it come out.

Yes I do know what you mean, It is impossible for me to decide who my elimination race opponents are, I am simply unable to decide who races where and in what eliminination round, for the following reason. The reservation form on the site Is for planning purposes for the racer, as well lets us know who is interested in attending. To explain what happens here is this, when filling out the form you are required to check off an eliminations round date, this you would pick based on your own life schedule, now what happens when you complete and submit (it only submits if all fields are entered) this form, is a reservation number is issued back to you on the eliminations round you choose (not me) if by chance the maximum number of racers is achieved (12 entrants per eliminations) you will receive a request to do one of two things, stay on that date in the reserve, overflow or to choose within 24 hours a different date, the reason for the 24 hrs is that it protects that persons rights, of first come first served.
Ok so why a reserve or overflow? anticipating a question here
The reason for this is due to no money being required at this time and that the event must have the 120 entrants to proceed with the race, nothing under nothing over.
ex. Say we have 120 interested persons wishing to attend, they filled the form received their reservations, all looks great, until January or February rolls around and the interested parties now have to pay a 20% deposit, this they will have 72 hours to do. After the 72 hour period we move along to the next number in that overflow for that eliminations in the series the numbers were received. But with no overflow to replace those who do not follow through, change their minds, or can't make it for whatever reason, this leaves a problem as its 120 or none. The last thing I want to do Is collect 20% from people having them send it directly to a bank trustee, the issuer of the prizes, and have to go back to him and ask him to return everyone money, having to cancel a event due to cancellations. Oh just a note I will be racing in the first eliminations, I am not any kind of known pro, but I am a good sailor, love the sport, competition and a challenge. I can say 3 years running I am the best my lake has to offer, at least until beaten in our annual challenge, should any of my local competition come across this.

Mary you said,
As I have already said, I think you are sincere in your mission, but you have a long way to go to establish credibility. And I know I am not helping much.
Yes, I trust you are right on this, it is only my hope to overcome this, and establish the required credibility, I thankyou, its all good

No just someone who asked a question on it, to understand it all better.

That's great, but no boats = no race. I've heard the builder is not capable of producing all of the boats you need before the event. Where are the boats coming from?

My two cents:

- Organizer should not be involved in the racing activities. It must be clear that you are not involved in the way the races are run or who is selected for what.

- Entry fees should not be used for primary prize money. The only exception could be a "50/50 prize" given to a random finisher to encourage everyone to enter. A 50/50 prize would mean that one randomly selected entrant would win 50% of the total entry fees upon completion of the regatta. Since entry fees for regattas around here are usually less than $50, doubling the fees to $100 for a weekend would garner about $1,000 for some lucky entrant (regardless of what finish position), and still leave $1000 for the race organizers to cover expenses. The big prize money from sponsors would be given out separately based on finish position.

- Clear, understandable accounting and budget tracking available to all competitors, sponsors, etc.

- Escrow account tracking and guidelines for distributions, contributions, etc.


I agree that prize money isn't what brings me out to an event. It's the other sailors, the venue, my schedule, and the other things to do (for non-sailors) at the event.

thanks for your two cents, it will be clear, as it will be the bank handling the funds portion, I will talk more with them on the best ways of doing this. As well the way of relaying the information to all involved.

You do not seem to know enough about what you want to do. It was a good idea to ask around in Internet groups but if you plan to do something outside your area of expertise, it is advisable to hire professional help. Your chances of success are directly related to the reliability, experience and quality of those involved.

A sailing event is a rather complicated act to put together. It is for this reason that most regattas are produced by clubs, fleets or associations, with plenty of infrastructure, employees, funding, experience and sailing contacts.

Marketing is important as well and spelling correctly is part of it.

If you want to do it right, hire a pro and associate your race with a club, fleet, etc. If you want to do it your way, be prepared to fail.

Sailors, sailing equipment and sailing events make a complex and difficult market, but you can still make a small fortune producing races, building boats, making sails, etc. - just start with a big fortune.

And if the scam was a possibility, forget about it.

I'm sorry to say that you are not going to have any luck organizing an event like this. The only people interested in the event would be the top two or three teams that might actually win the event. The rest of the teams would not be interested in making donations to the top team.

The only way an event like this could work is if a sponsor were to provide the prize money. Then the entrance fees would be reasonable and people would be interested in entering to win the sponsors money.

Mike Worrell had been running the race for more than 20 years prior to his attempt to change his event. Worrell no longer participated in the race. While he was charging 5K he was planning on providing about 5K worth of value to each entrant.

This is totally different from what you are planning. I'm afraid to tell you that you won't be getting any interest from the sailors with the event you are planning.

You're right
no boats = no race as no participants also would = no race

The only thing I am prepared to state at this time on these boats is that they will be. The exact details on it I will release, once I fully have it clear myself.

These details will be released prior to any actual registrations or deposits being requested, from anyone.

What you herd is also right, this manufacturer is not capable of building the 12 required boats, they do have other comitments and obligations, that I am sure.

thank you on your suggestion

good feed back, yes all those you spoke of suggesting I involve, I do intend to involve. including the association and or associations. Each will do thier part when necessary, as necessary.

My suggestion is.....land big tightle sponcer and try to ask Wurld Match Race Toor some questions.

I swore at the outset, to myself, that I wasn't going to post on this thread. This is especially hard for me as pathetically bad spelling is, to me, like a red rag to a bull! This is especially true in the context of this particular thread.

Anyhow, I can't stop myself any longer. The more I've read (on here and SA), the more convinced I am that MJD hasn't a snowball's chance in hell of making this 'dream' work.

To mount such a series, in a place that noone ever seems to have heard of as a recognised sailing venue, without the megabucks backing of a major sponsor in the Volvo/Rolex league AND without acknowledged experts in this field to advise and guide is nothing short of some little wannabe indulging in his own private wet dream, but in public.

I am of the view that discussing this further on this forum, entertaining (in a car smash kind of way) as it is, is a complete waste of everyone's time.

Go away, little man!

well Mr. Secretary, F16 Governing Council, I thank you for your so called waste of time, by posting in this thread you swore you would not post in.

These sponsors are coming in nicely, I have no worries here, anything they put up for prizes will be over and above, thanks!

While I am thinking of it, what type of post party celebrations, or any personal new ideas that would be of interest? what would you like to see go on should you be in a town or city, on an event for a one week period?

How about hosting it in a nice "warm" location? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> The Keys would be nice. But, alas, as I am just a regular sailor I won't be putting up money to fund the prize for the "hot shots". I normally look at the entry fees to be a donation to the "Sailing Clubs" that will host the event.

I believe that we read this and post because its a slow day and like mentioned before, its like passing a car wreck, you like/want to see the carnage.

Clayton

The next one could be held in the keys, should this first one be a success. But in order for that to happen you would have to win this one first, the winner selects where the next host city will be.

How important to you if at all is video coverage, on board cams etc. One thing I thought of including at a sponsor's local venue of nightly events, were to each day have race highlights and interviews put together, and put up on large screen. What are you thoughts and opinions on this?

were you to actually pull off the race, then yes, video is a must.

Check out the video coverage on tybee500.com done by Mister Brian Karr and his vagabond groupies.

Thanks, and yes I have been in contact with brian.

I cant help myself.

CS: Had to delete the graphic.., it was too large and made reading the thread difficult.'
Rick

OK, but have you asked the Toor any questions?

If you can't get enough U20s for this race, why not try the MacGregor 26X? It's probably the perfect boat for this kind of race...

fourth or fifth mode?

First to fif mode wins intire pot, after subtacting all expenses incured!

If I were to ask, what kind of questions do you think I should ask of the world match race tour derik?

I kind of have my heart set on the U20, I like its design and the look of it in the water, although I myself have not even set foot on one. I like the storey behind the U20, the enthusiasm of it owners and clubs. This boat fits well with this race.

Not to get me wrong here, MacGregor 26X is a nice looking boat, but it looks more a cruising boat. The U20 seems more favorible to this compitions needs.

sorry rhino posted the reply to you in a reply to keiths

I think the Mac26x is the way to go, I mean it goes like 20 something. There is no way an U20 can come close to beating it around the racecourse. The Mac can fit more people who can pay the entry fee too! What's up, you own a U20 or something? Making it easy for youself to win the cash money?

Absolutely! You could alternate laps under sail and under power! You can also award style points if somebody waterskis! Frank! Are you out there? Help us on this one!

No as I said in another post already, I have not even set foot on a U20. You said the mac26x did 20 knots? I can't see the boat hull design I was looking at, of the magregor boat achieving that speed. post the link to what mac26x you were looking at on here, so I may go look at it again.
In anycase this boat is 6 feet longer in size than the boats needed. As well, to begin to make contacts all over again would put my schedule on this race way off track.

Power?

"No as I said in another post already, I have not even set foot on a U20."

As we understand it, you are setting up a high profile race on boats you don't know anything about nor even sailed on; with sponsors you don't have, on a lake no one has heard about and expect money from people you don't know to supply the prize?

Down here we call someone like that "coullion".

Clayton

This idea is so lain brain it blew up the SA forums.

Check the picture, you'll understand...

In all seriousness - one way to help establish your credibility is this:

Please list your resume with respect to sailing.

For example - tell us the boats you have sailed on and in what capacity.

Tell us what events you have competed in, in what capacity (crew/skipper), and what your results were.

Tell us what events you have helped plan and run, and what capacity you acted in.

Tell us what sailing organizations you belong to, and whether you have held any office in those organizations.

Tell us whatever business or organizational experience you may have, and how you think it relates to the task at hand.

Help us help you.

ps - if you follow my idea on the Mac 26x, you might get a sponsor from an outboard manufacturer in addition to the boat manufacturer!

No on the magregor 26 x, its U20 I am satisfied with sponsor's already in-line.

I will get the answers to those other questions you asked, I will have to come back to it after.

The Mac 26x bit is a joke, son, a real knee-slapper...

The other stuff isn't. Tell us about you.

The folowing was asked in an interview from another publisher, you may or may not be interested, but I will post it anyway.

I was the following questions from a publisher at a different site, asked the organizer a few questions: whether the prize money would solely come from anticipated entry fees or other sources, how many entries did they need for his event to occur, what got this idea started, and whether they have you done other events. Here was the reply:

The Prize money is generated through the registration fee's, also included in those fees are other related costs to hold the event. Over and above the Main prize amounts already stated, there would be other Prizes very good ones we expect, as we are currently seeking sponsors for the event. They are not currently apart of the info packet I sent of course, as they are not yet secured or completed, once all is in place they will be apart of the on-line sailing site, that will be set up for those who have expressed an interest in competing in this event.

Being a sailor, racer, competitor myself, I have sailed boats ranging from 16ft - 45ft and everything in between, (although I have not sailed the boat I intend to use for this event) as for my own boat it was built in Lunenburg NS and is called a Falcon 16 made by Macvey yachts in 1965, we boast 3 of the classics in our fleet, and race them each year, No worries these are not the boats that will be used for this event. I have experienced some pretty awesome weather in the Atlantic Ocean, and in the lake where I intend to hold the event (I am the undefeated champ on this lake, and my marina has dubbed me commodore of Lake Petitcodiac 3 years running). Each time I race in a sailing event, I think of what could be done different to make it better. Spending endless hours carefully thinking out this event, trying to foresee any problems that could arise, then thinking out solutions etc.

I asked myself, what would I like to see in a sailing event? What is the one thing that would attract me to it, and make me want to be apart of something like this?

The answer to the second question was simple Money & Prizes.

As for the first one it gets more complicated, I thought to myself, it would have to be an fair, equal playing field, before I spent my dollar on it. Meaning each boat would have to be exactly the same "One design", that it would have to based on skill of seamanship, Captain & Crew.

Being a fan of the America's cup and the history involved, the 100 Gunies cup of old schooners etc. I thought, imagine if one could race against one of these great modern day names in sailing, whom have earned their sailing history. But then faced the reality that the average everyday sailor would never get the opportunity to do so. I also believe that given the chance, sum of these average everyday sailors could and would win over the pro's. My hope here is that maybe these same pro's would have an interest in my sailing event, thinking it were easy money and register. If this happens they are first restricted to one of the series held for all pro, two of which, the best two will advance, meaning that no average sailor would meet a pro in competition until the 70 finals, at this point the competitive average guy would be a most worthy opponent. Not guaranteeing here that any Pro's will attend the event, but just-in-case a provision has been made here. What a challenge this would be, and imagine winning, ( I hope I get to the 70 finals should they show, or not show, laughing here)

I would like to hold this race every 2 - 4 years if a success.

I thought it would be interesting to allow the inaugural Competitors themselves come up with the Cup name. Still thinking on this.

I also thought that, I would have to want to know, how many boats would I have to beet to win my money back (break even point). The answer to this by the way is 9 (nine) boats, as in your elimination round 12 boats race, finish in 3rd place overall in your series of nine races against these same boats and you win your money back.

You asked, how many entries to make it happen? 120 is the goal. If less I have to take out my calculator, scratch my head, reassess, sweat, stress and make a well-informed decision.

I also thought what if I received more? The answer to this is simply again, first come 1st served on both the choosing of elimination dates (pro's restricted to one series date) as well the registration. This is the reason for knowing in advance who intends to compete, as (2) two separate dates for registering (60 on each date) will be sent in advance to them, and its on these days registrations will occur in the order they are received. Adjustments for time zones will be calculated to ensure all a fair chance.

I though if I were to go overseas and race or even on the other coast would I need to arrange for a boat or sail my own there, this would weigh heavy on my decision. The answer on this is no the boats will be supplied. As well as a training day for you to become familiar with it and your chosen crew.

To answer your next Question: have I done other events? yes not on this scale though, and for the most part a participant. But I have a great desire, want, positive attitude, and more help each day, not to mention 3 cities around me.

I hope that I answered your questions, if you have more email me anytime at either email address.


MJ Daggett

Close, but break it down in specific answers to the specific questions listed before.

Is this the right Falcon 16? Falcon 16

Cheers.

Is that from Foghorn Leghorn? My kid hears all the time:
I say, I say BOY. . .

http://webpages.charter.net/eagle91/Replies/Foghorn-Leghorn.jpg

Would costumes get extra style points? Will there be a water balloon battle event?

Do you really want to summon HWSNBN?

I was thinking of costumes and paintball...

Hmmm, Halloween IS over I guess...

Let's see, given your genetic disposition towards beer, then this might be your kid!

Paintball it is!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Foghorn it is!!! You win the first round of prizes!

BTW... Just in case anyone is paying attention on the subject line "Dailey video coverage?" should be "Daily video coverage". Dailey happens to be my Irish sirname and is no affiliation to this event. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Clayton

Costumes, paintball, and water balloons. Why wouldn't you want to be affiliated?

Yes kieth, I really apreciate the questions at hand, and will post those answers to them. I would like to try and find the exact dates as to when they have taken place. I only posted the interview, as I thought it might be of interest or helpful, I haven't responded to those questions you asked as of yet, as I had to leave for work. I will get them up as soon as I can...
Also: the link you gave me is right for the falcon, try this one it should bring you to mine.
paceship web site

[/quote]Would costumes get extra style points? Will there be a water balloon battle event? [/quote]

Hey, always up for a good idea to make the event more memorable. I tell you what, put you idea in detail of it all on here in a post. And we will see the response on it all...we'll go from there

would you believe me if I said, that's how we spell it in Canada.

In all seriousness - one way to help establish your credibility is this:

Please list your resume with respect to sailing.

Tell us the boats you have sailed on and in what capacity.
Boat type: Positions: Location:

Hobbie cat 16 Crew Trim Lake petitcodiac

Races: None just sailing
Falcon 16 Captain Trim & Sail, Foredeck, Helm Lake petitcodiac, Northumberland Straight
2003's Tri-Comunity Marina's Petitcodiac Lake Yachtsman's Cup Challenge Lake petitcodiac
2004's Tri-Comunity Marina's Petitcodiac Lake Yachtsman's Cup Challenge Lake petitcodiac
2005's Tri-Comunity Marina's Petitcodiac Lake Yachtsman's Cup Challenge Lake petitcodiac

CS 22 Captain Trim & Sail, Foredeck, Helm Lake petitcodiac
Races: 2006 won against my own boat with this, my son had mine but I am sure it doesn't count for much, the trophy was a beer

Mirage 26 Crew Trim & Sail, Foredeck Northumberland Straight, North Atlantic
Races: Evening races mostly finished 1st a few times

Tanzer 28 Crew Trim & Sail, Foredeck, Helm Northumberland Straight, North Atlantic
Races: Shediac to Summerside race on three occasions, Shediac to Charlottown race twice, All around the island race twice
Results: Mostly middle of the pack, within the top 7 after time corrections, boat is a cruiser but we were happy with the results, this was years ago and I cannot rember the Dates sorry. Finished well in the Last all around the Island race, many boats dropped out of this race on the atlantic side, due to Heavey weather from some hurricane or tail end of a hurricane, that rolled up from the south, this was nasty, my only expirience with sea sickness. It was either that year or the year after, that this event was no longer held.

Ranger 29 Crew Trim & Sail, Foredeck, Helm Northumberland Straight, North Atlantic
Races: None just Pleasure sailing, Planned on racing this boat in 2006 but it did not happen

C&C 30 Crew Trim & Sail, Foredeck Northumberland Straight
Races: 2006 Shediac to Summerside race Finished second in our class
Races: 2006 Summerside race week finished 3rd overall, after having to drop out due to loss of helm control at the start of the last race.

Bruce & Roberts
29.9 ton Steel ketch 45ft Captain & Crew Trim & Sail, Foredeck, Helm, mizzen Northumberland Straight, North Atlantic, Newfoundland crossing
Races: None just pleasure sailing

[/quote]

would you believe me if I said, that's how we spell it in Canada. [/quote]

NO

That's like spelling Rolex with two "l"s.

I have a sinking feeling that watch I just bought may not be worth much...

Give him a break. He always spells petitcodiac right, and I had a very hard time with that -- kept putting in an extra "t."

And then there was the dyslectic devil worshiper who sold his soul to Santa.

I was just visiting your site Keith very nice, great idea on the Portsmouth calculator.

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...93&an=0&page=0#Post89693 Prize Money Banking Draft

Thanks, I haven't kept things up to date that well this year - have content and pictures that need to go up. I always like the Portsmouth calculator, before SailWave started giving the time you needed on the course to win the calculator was a great way to see what you neded to do the day after a race.