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What do you tow with

Posted By: gree2056

What do you tow with - 11/09/06 07:23 AM

So winter is here for many of us cat guys. It is time for meaningless discussion to keep us occupied until Feburuary when we try to get out and sail in colder temps than what made us put the boats away.
The question is what do you tow your cat with?

p.s. In the picture that I attached I had just towed my boat down a very muddy road, that is why it looks like crap.

Me personally I have a 98 Ford Explorer, it has a V-8 so it barely notices the 14 behind it. Also I have a rubber mat that covers the back and catchs any water or sand from boat parts. It is really the perfect vehicle for the job, decent mileage, lots of power, and the space to haul anything.

So there is the first post, what do the rest of you all use.

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Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 10:23 AM

Ford Focus 1.6litre. Not enough power to drive fast or pass other cars, but the speed limit is 80km/h with a trailer anyway so it does not matter.
Has just enough grunt to get us over the mountains with the Tornado rig behind it.
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 10:36 AM

Huyndai Tucson 2.0 diesel, very comfortable and plenty of power (for a european car anyway <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)
gree: how many gallons to the mile do you get with that V8?

Attached picture 89701-2005-Hyundai-Tucson-05803111990004.JPG
Posted By: C2 Mike

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 10:52 AM


2004 Holden Commodore SS. Gen III V8 for those moments when overtaking. The attached photo was taken last christmas in the middle of the Great Australian Bite after driving for around 20 hours on my way to Perth from Melbourne. My fuel bill was errr large!

Tiger Mike

Attached picture 89707-AustBite.JPG
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 10:52 AM

For the F18 sailors <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Posted By: wildtoy

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 10:56 AM

I've had to but a crappy 4 wheel vehicle to tow the mosquito which is a falcon. Im still trying to sought out a tow bar for my bike <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 11:35 AM

Subaru Impreza WRX - loads of grunt when needed, fun to drive when you get there and un-hitch. OK mPG on a long run, NOT good MPG when driving quickly

[Linked Image]
Posted By: arbo06

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 12:06 PM

Dodge Ram, quad cab

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Posted By: Robi

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 12:26 PM

Quote
Dodge Ram, quad cab
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Did you run over your hobie 20 like Trey did? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I drive a 1989, v6 smells like burning oil Jeep Cherokee. The car is old and warn out. The gas mileage is pretty good has enough power for the blade, trailer and accesories. Enough room inside for extra gear. I never wash it or rinse it. Its perfect! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: fin.

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 12:32 PM

Quote
. . . I never wash it or rinse it. Its perfect! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


Faded, red, '96 Toyota Tacoma!
Posted By: arbo06

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 12:36 PM

Someone else ran it over for me! A few years ago in Biscayne Bay, during a CABB race. 31' Monterey Cabin Cruiser T-Boned me while sailing with my son.

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Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 12:53 PM

My 97 XJ Jeep Cherokee Sport

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Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 12:55 PM

2000 Isuzu Vehicross. Tows the I20 at 100mph no problem. And can pull jeeps out of mudpits. More torque than you can shake a stick at.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 01:26 PM

One day <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
[Linked Image]
Posted By: WindyHillF20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 01:34 PM

Nissan Titan Crew Cab w/ Nismo go fast goodies and Rockford Fosgate sound pumping Sirius Octane.
Posted By: bsquared

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 01:57 PM

A very macho 2004 Toyota Sienna AWD minivan :-) Much better mileage non-towing; not enough torque to hold 5th gear with the boat, but plenty of power in 4th. Ditch the run-flats. Lots of room; take out the middle seats and fold the rears and big enough for two to sleep in. Great ski van too. Typical load for family vacation: Two adults, two kids, one H20, two bikes, one kayak, 3 boogie boards, big cooler, little cooler, fishing rods, beach chairs, beach umbrellas, luggage, big box of sheets and towels, video games, and that extra case of beer. It rides a tad low with all of that :-)
Posted By: PTP

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 02:02 PM

2001 Subaru "grocery getter" Forrester. 70+K miles. Manual. No balls, but gets it done. MPG bad for 4 cyc engine though. Struggles a littl up any grade pulling my 6.0 with all the gear BUT it made it to the keys and back last year so it has my stamp of approval.
Best part about it? The MFer is paid for.
Posted By: mikekrantz

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 02:02 PM

Ford E-350 van with turbo diesel. sorta overkill for the a-cat...
[Linked Image]
Posted By: flumpmaster

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 02:04 PM

[Linked Image]

'95 Fourwinds RV with 460 cu in V8 (7.5L). Banks headers, exhaust and cold air intake. About 9 mpg but traveling in style.

And for when you arrive and don't want to use a 27' RV as a run about:

[Linked Image]

This 50cc scooter sits on the trailer in between the hulls when travelling. Mods include a performance resonator exhaust (worth an extra 2mph) and pumping up the tires to max pressure (that also got another 2mph). Not very fast but a lot of fun <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Chris.
Posted By: pdwarren

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 02:07 PM

1.8T Golf. Anyone spot a trend between US vs European towing vehicles of choice? It's almost like petrol, sorry gas, is free over your side of the pond <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

http://www.formula16.org/component/optio...;g2_itemId=2683

(I don't normally tow it broken down)

Paul
Posted By: fin.

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 02:18 PM

Quote
. . .The MFer is paid for.


I have about 65k miles on the Tacoma, plan to drive it for 120k or until the doors fall off!
Posted By: Jalani

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 02:29 PM

An '92 3.2 V6 Isuzu Trooper LWB. We've had it from new.... It's old, dirty and dented but it's got loads of grunt, we can chuck all sorts of gear in the back and it just goes on and on and on and on.... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Linked Image]

Attached picture 89750-Trooper.jpg
Posted By: Keith

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 02:34 PM

I've had a run of old vans that I bought for next to nothing to do the job.

First was a 1977 Chevy 3/4 ton work van that had been converted (love that '70s shag carpet) that I bought for $75 and ran it for 10 years. Towed the Hobie-14 and 18 with that, had a lot of road trips to Indy and Summit Point as well, it ultimately rusted into a pile of dust - but that 350 v8 still had enough torque to pull down a house at 200k+ miles.

Pic is of my second old van - $400 from the Goddard Space Flight Center excess property auction. Bare bones vehicle if ever there was one.

Can be summed up this way - 1980 Dodge van, $400, 1979 Hobie-18, $1500, Blowing by racing yachts whose jib cost more than my whole rig, priceless!

My current vehicle is a 2000 Chevy Astro LT, $5000. I certainly went over my usual budget on this one! But, I needed something that would take a car seat now, and could work out for family road trips. 4.3 liter v6, pulls the cats with no problem, Pulls the F-27 pretty well, gets around 20 mpg highway (not towing).

Still have the old Dodge, great work van - anybody want to buy it? Good price...

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Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 02:34 PM

Practicality had a narrow vote over style. My current tow vehicle is a Honda minivan. I will say that it has a lot more space than my old SUV (Nissan Xterra), and with the double sliding doors, it's easy to get stuff in and out of. And yes, there is a carseat mounted in it now... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The other good things? About two thousand cup-holders, and extra sockets for televisions, blenders, etc.

Pulled a N20 with Galvanized trailer and overstuffed epoxy/wood box (= HEAVY) through the hills of south Georgia and got 22 miles per gallon (regular unleaded 87 octane)at 70 mph.

On the "Flats" in Florida during the summer (air conditioner on) cruising at 75 mph got 24 miles per gallon. Still had some "oomph" to pass a few cars, but I'm not an aggressive driver.

Without the trailer, gets around 26 mph highway.

Best mileage I got with the old Xterra pulling the same stuff was 19 miles per gallon. However, there was NO SPACE in the Xterra after loading all the luggage for a weekend trip with spouse and dog.

At $ 2.98 (USD) per gallon, the fuel savings did add up...
Posted By: Tom Korz

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 02:47 PM

03 Expedition [Linked Image] [Linked Image]
Posted By: Erez

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 03:25 PM

Jeep

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 03:45 PM

Neeeeeds custom hitch...damn it!

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Posted By: Keith

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 03:48 PM

Quote
Neeeeeds custom hitch...damn it!


Are you sure that car has enough power to pull a cat? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: NCSUtrey

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 04:13 PM

2001 Tahoe
-gets 13mpg with double-stacked N20's
Posted By: Rhino1302

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 04:24 PM

1993 Ford E350 Van with the 7.3L IDI diesel. No turbo, so it's pretty smokey going over the high passes. Three captain's chairs and a bench that folds out into a bed. State DOT surplus, and it still has the big amber strobe bar which makes me feel special.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 04:37 PM

Tornado Alive:

That is one HELL of a truck. I use a 2000 Ford Explorer XLT. Got 22 mpg coming back from Fla when I picked up Mystere 4.3. Get about 15-16 around town.

Doug Snell
Posted By: gree2056

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 04:39 PM

Someone asked what kind of mileage I get from my V-8 explorer, in town I manage about 16 or 17 with the trailor but on long trips I get around 25mpg. Granted I rarely drive over 70mph with the trailor and take it pretty easy.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 05:19 PM

2000 Explorer Sport Trac 4x4. It seats five and has a 4 foot bed. The bed is plastic so I can throw salty gear in it and not worry about the bottom rotting out.
Posted By: _flatlander_

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 05:21 PM

'89 Dodge Mini-Ram van converted to an electrical service van. Company had built in shelving and 6 drawers under a sub-floor, 10' conduit slot up the middle (under floor) great for tiller extension, tie down stuff. Sub floor a great bed for the inflatible mattress on those late night arrivals or when the ground is too wet to set up the tent. Ladder rack on top was used to carry a trailer when delivering the sold 18 to the regatta and double stacked the 16 to race. Really nice to have all the storage space for every sailing and camping thing we'd ever possibly need and leave it the van and out of site to boot. Got us through 4 to 5K miles of regatta adventures this summer.

The drawback? 12 mpg pulling a boat, 14 when not. It's got a 3-litre Mitsubishi V6 that is a total POS. Chasing fuel and ECM problems all summer.

The wish list? Honda Oddessy, 245 hp <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> [Linked Image]
Posted By: ksurfer2

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 05:44 PM

02 Tacoma V6 4X4. pulls I-20 no problem, and 4 wheel drive is great for pulling off beaches. Mileage is OK but goes downhill fast over about 65.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 06:08 PM

Good choice for your wish list, John. I will have to say that with the fold down rear seats, I was able to stow all of my sailing gear (clothing, pfd, harnesses, etc.), weekend apparrel (for me, wife and kid), all the child accoutrements (stroller, crib, highchair, bath, etc. etc. etc.) and still have the front and middle (reclining) seats clear for the kid, dog, spouse, etc.

The fact that the sliding doors have windows that go up and down (on both sides) is an added bonus..

Yes, I guess I am a closet mini-van convert... That, and they're $5,000 (USD) cheaper than the similar (cargo room) sized Expedition.

$5,000 is almost 1/3 of the cost for a new N20, so the savings is definitely something to consider....
Posted By: hobienick

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 06:38 PM

2001 1.8T VW Passat, 5 sp manual, 135K miles. I've been towing my cats since I bought it. Great milage without the roof rack and trailer. I get about 20 towing the TheMightyHobie18. I have loaded her up with a weeks worth of car camping gear, two bikes, two sea kayaks, and all of my tools to repair the boat. I can't seem to go over 90 mph when I do that. It does look funny towing a boat that is bigger than your car.
Posted By: sruffner

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 07:18 PM

1986 BMW 325e - approx. 25mpg on the highway with the boat. A great 6 cyl. with a fair bit of grunt.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 08:09 PM

[Linked Image]

Happily tows the F18 on a trailer at highway speeds.

and gets 38mpg around town.
Posted By: WindyHillF20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 08:13 PM

Is that a Peugot ( spelling )? It is obvious that the US loves big gas guzzlers. I think that car would fit in my truck bed.
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 08:20 PM

My "little" SUV gets 12mpg. Worse towing. Even worse towing fast. The price you pay for AWD and gobs of torque.
Posted By: DougSkinner

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 08:50 PM

1998 Dodge Ram 1500, 5.2 V8, 5 spd manual, K&N filter w/ cat back exhaust. The things got 210,000 miles on and gets 16-17 mpg whether its pulling a cat or not. Wish I had a new 4dr Jeep Wrangler. Kids are so expensive.
Posted By: ejpoulsen

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 09:32 PM

'05 Nissan Armada--9000+lb towing capacity, so I guess I could tow a whole F16 fleet with it...in the background on the photo...

Attached picture 89809-Picture067.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 09:49 PM

Quote
Is that a Peugot ( spelling )? It is obvious that the US loves big gas guzzlers. I think that car would fit in my truck bed.

Yeh its a Peugeot 206. note its petrol (gas) not diesel.
Posted By: fin.

Re: What do you tow with - 11/09/06 10:06 PM

Surprisingly, the Tacoma only gets about 17 mpg when towing. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: drbinkle

Re: What do you tow with - 11/10/06 12:09 AM

97 Toyota 4Runner (on loan from my crew/girlfriend) because I'm not cool enough to have a hitch on my car.

[Linked Image]

Attached picture 89832-awesomecar.jpg
Posted By: PTP

Re: What do you tow with - 11/10/06 01:20 AM

Quote
[Linked Image]

Happily tows the F18 on a trailer at highway speeds.

and gets 38mpg around town.


You win. I guess you would need a pretty large cat box on the trailer.
Posted By: bvining

Re: What do you tow with - 11/10/06 06:27 PM

Currently a 98 Dodge Intrepid, 225k miles on it 22mpg over the life of the car. the back seat folds down and can hold sails, booms, etc in the trunk and back seat.

It tows great, and I even forget I've got a boat on the back.

Anybody want to buy it? Its got the hitch, and its probably only worth $2000. I'm in the market for next car/truck. Now that gas is less than $2.25/gal, Im leaning towards the Toyota FJ

Bill

Attached picture 89915-bv_double_back.JPG
Posted By: bvining

Re: What do you tow with - 11/10/06 06:29 PM

another cool pic - doublestack - HT regatta 2 years ago in VA Beach.


Bill

Attached picture 89916-ss_long_2.JPG
Posted By: bvining

Re: What do you tow with - 11/10/06 06:35 PM

Anybody tow with a sports car?
Any 2 seater/ragtops?
Posted By: hobienick

Re: What do you tow with - 11/10/06 07:53 PM

I have seen an MG B pulling an H16 down the highway. I wish I had my camera then.
Posted By: Will_R

Re: What do you tow with - 11/10/06 08:03 PM

Guess I win the low mpg award.

2000 Chevy 2500HD 4x4, Crew cab, short bed, gas burner. 12 mpg with or w/o a boat at any speed below 80. I didn't buy it for the boat, I bought it for my three horse goose neck trailer to tow the two Thoroughbreds and Trakehner ;-)

Next truck? '06 or '07 Chevy 2500HD LT3 4x4 Duramax.

The real problem is that I don't even own a boat right now.... :-( First time in my life since I was 11 that this has happened! It's ok though, shopping for a J24 or I20
Posted By: RyanMcHale

Re: What do you tow with - 11/10/06 08:28 PM

I use this, '92 Dodge Stealth, Twin Turbo, All Wheel Drive, All Wheel Steering, I have NO trouble passing when I want to. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Attached picture 89925-TowCar.jpg
Posted By: Todd Berget

Re: What do you tow with - 11/10/06 08:52 PM

Wait a minute here... shopping for a J24 or I20???

this should be a no brainer - I20

why work so hard to go so slow and then have the risk of broaching and sinking. I know they have good class racing, but ouch... and the worst part is you aren't even gaining any accomodations for losing all that speed.

Sorry, had to do my part to try to grow the I20 fleet...
Posted By: Will_R

Re: What do you tow with - 11/10/06 09:53 PM

Well, my problem is that as the son of a boat dealer, I've always had a variety of toys to play with. Dad has a J80 that I've been trying to wrestle from him, but he won't budge, so... gotta have something, but I want more than one thing.

Since moving from S. AL to UT last year, I have not had a boat. I couldn't bring it b/c I had to move the horses, but it's the first time since I was 11 that I don't have a boat with my name on it.

I'm not looking for something and am using these thoughts.

I20 - would rather have. Don't have crew, nobody out here sails like we did in FL. Wife WON'T ever sail with me again. 6.0 killed her for sailing... anyway, I'd have to crew for her as she's not big enough. It's also not a boat to teach noobs on. Not to mention I will only sail skipper +1.

J24 - Faster than a J22. I spent a LOT of time on J's of all shapes and sizes before cats and still love the 22 and the 80. I can teach a group of my UT friends to crew and go out and terrorize the local fleet ;-). Also, it's cheaper than the other toys I want (Slipstream 7.15). Since dad is a North dealer, i can ge sails cheaper.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE cats and since converting in college always will, however... there is a LOT that can be learned from them and I attribute a huge chunk of my ability to my sunfish, my Star and other stuff I had/raced pre-cats. Sadly, I just think out here in UT if I want to race it's going to have to be a leaner.

When I move back to AL or FL, I'll be back on a cat full time.
Posted By: Mary

Re: What do you tow with - 11/11/06 12:11 AM

Quote
[Linked Image]

Happily tows the F18 on a trailer at highway speeds.

and gets 38mpg around town.


Scarecrow, what kind of car is that?
Posted By: mbounds

Re: What do you tow with - 11/11/06 01:43 AM

Quote
Anybody tow with a sports car?
Any 2 seater/ragtops?


I wouldn't exactly call it a "sports car", but it is a coupe:

[Linked Image]

1999 Volvo C70
150K miles, tows the double stack without too many complaints, but the gas mileage sucks - 15 mpg towing and only 24 without the boat(s). Mileage goes down drastically above 65 mph.

The best part is the Dolby Surround system that'll make your ears bleed if you're not careful.
Posted By: Mary

Re: What do you tow with - 11/11/06 01:54 AM

We can tow a cat with our little 1990 Honda Civic hatchback, but the problem with towing with a little car like that is more that the boat is wider than the car, and the wind keeps catching the bows and making the boat waggle back and forth -- sort of feels like the boat is trying to steer the car, if you know what I mean. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> So it would be the same with a little sports car.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What do you tow with - 11/11/06 05:10 AM

Mary:

Back when I started in 79 I use to tow my Hobie 16 with a Toyota Tercel. Can't get much less power than that. Engine is about the size of a sewing machine. Uphill was FUN!! went all over the state of Texas. But it got us there and started a GREAT hobby and way of life. 3 boats now and more to come.

Doug and Ashleigh Snell
Posted By: Mary

Re: What do you tow with - 11/11/06 01:20 PM

I have a Honda Odyssey (minivan, with automatic transmission). It gets 29-30 mpg on the highway with no trailer.

Every year I end up pulling a trailer loaded with boats from Key Largo to Ohio, over the mountains. With two Hobie Waves double-stacked (and a couple sets of beach wheels) the mileage goes down to about 23 mpg.

This past spring on my trip north I had THREE Waves on the trailer, kind of nested, so they were still like two high. But that extra weight brought the mileage down to about 19-20 mpg, and the transmission seemed to be really struggling, even on flat road with slight rises.

So I met up with Rick in South Carolina after he finished covering the Tybee 500, and we let the motorhome tow the boats the rest of the way to Ohio, because I didn't think the Odyssey would make it over the mountains with that load.

SO, my questions are:
(1) When towing, is it easier on your vehicle if you have manual transmission or automatic?

(2) What causes the decrease in mpg when you are towing? Is it the actual amount of weight on the trailer? I would think that once inertia kicks in at steady highway speeds on flat roads, the trailer would be irrelevant (but apparently NOT).

(3) Or is it the windage (drag) of the trailer and boats that brings down the mpg?

(4) Or does it have something to do with the size of the trailer wheels vis-a-vis the size of the vehicle wheels?
Posted By: Mark P

Re: What do you tow with - 11/11/06 05:56 PM

Here's my trusty 12yr old Toyota Hiace. The Cats behind are worth thousands more. The A on top of the F16 belongs to my friend who is in the picture below (left unfortunately) but I thought you might like the link between the photo's.

Attached picture 89974-0.jpg
Posted By: Frozen

Re: What do you tow with - 11/11/06 05:56 PM

Quote
Anybody tow with a sports car?
Any 2 seater/ragtops?


What about a Miata? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Just for the information of those who are comparing, American Gallons are smaller than Imperial (British/Canadian). Here is the conversion.
1 imperial gal = 1.2009 U S gals = 4.5446 Litres
1 USG = .8327 Imp. Gal = 3.7843 L.
10 Litres = 2.6425 USG = 2.2004 Imp. Gal.

From http://www.roadogz.com/productionoffice/calculate.htm
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: What do you tow with - 11/11/06 06:13 PM

Quote
SO, my questions are:
(1) When towing, is it easier on your vehicle if you have manual transmission or automatic?
Auto trannys have become a very good at power transfer so there is very little difference. I still prefer a manual as I’m an old guy who learned with one.

Quote
(2) What causes the decrease in mpg when you are towing? Is it the actual amount of weight on the trailer? I would think that once inertia kicks in at steady highway speeds on flat roads, the trailer would be irrelevant (but apparently NOT).

(3) Or is it the windage (drag) of the trailer and boats that brings down the mpg?
It’s a combination of the two. Inertia will be overcome by drag and wheel friction.

Quote
(4) Or does it have something to do with the size of the trailer wheels vis-a-vis the size of the vehicle wheels?
There’s a number of things to consider when looking at wheels. The larger the wheel diameter, the more energy to get it spinning. There’s also bearing and road friction. One thing that would reduce drag would be to make the tire and rim narrower but the trade off would be weight capacity.
Posted By: Mark P

Re: What do you tow with - 11/11/06 06:13 PM

I'll try again. It helps if you attach the right file!!

Attached picture 89978-ToyotaVan.jpg
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: What do you tow with - 11/11/06 06:43 PM

The vehicle in the bottom left picture is missing its backup lights.
Posted By: Mary

Re: What do you tow with - 11/11/06 06:52 PM

Quote
There’s a number of things to consider when looking at wheels. The larger the wheel diameter, the more energy to get it spinning. There’s also bearing and road friction. One thing that would reduce drag would be to make the tire and rim narrower but the trade off would be weight capacity.

Wow, I never thought about that before, but I guess that's why the tires on horse-racing sulkies are very skinny -- and on racing bicycles.
* * * * *
As far as wind drag, has anybody ever come up with a way to make the rig more aerodynamic for trailering?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: What do you tow with - 11/11/06 07:23 PM

Quote

Wow, I never thought about that before, but I guess that's why the tires on horse-racing sulkies are very skinny -- and on racing bicycles.
* * * * *
As far as wind drag, has anybody ever come up with a way to make the rig more aerodynamic for trailering?
Some road bikes use tires that are only 18 cm across. Really skinny but they still have to carry the same weight of the rider and bike so they may bulge out more where the tire contacts the road.

Removing the tramp might reduce drag.
Posted By: Andrew

Re: What do you tow with - 11/11/06 09:04 PM

Quote
1998 Dodge Ram 1500, 5.2 V8, 5 spd manual, K&N filter w/ cat back exhaust. The things got 210,000 miles on and gets 16-17 mpg whether its pulling a cat or not.

Same, but 4x4, only 132,000 mi and no kids. Also, AirRaid instead of K&N.
Posted By: Andrew

Re: What do you tow with - 11/11/06 09:09 PM

Quote
And for when you arrive and don't want to use a 27' RV as a run about:

[Linked Image]


Hey, Chris, that sure is a sharp-looking runabout! Oh, and the scooter is cute too.
Posted By: fin.

Re: What do you tow with - 11/11/06 10:12 PM

Quote
Quote
And for when you arrive and don't want to use a 27' RV as a run about:

[Linked Image]


Hey, Chris, that sure is a sharp-looking runabout! Oh, and the scooter is cute too.


What scooter?
Posted By: Joanna

Re: What do you tow with - 11/11/06 11:34 PM

My skipper should win for worst MPG's. He tows with a GMC motor home. It gets about 7MPG but sure makes the "camping" better. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: JoeLeonard

Re: What do you tow with - 11/12/06 12:08 AM

Ok...after towing double stacked N20's today for the first time, I'll chime in...because I think I should get a couple of awards....
I drive a Black 2003 GMC Sierra Denali with a 6.0 litre V8, AWD, and Quadrasteer (yes all four wheels turn). I love my truck for a lot of reasons...it just "goes" anywhere I want in any conditions, and does so with comfort and class....only one (major) flaw....you'll read in a moment. Sooo....IMHO...we're WAY up there on the "Cool" factor!! Picture (sorry I don't have one to share at the moment!) 2 gorgeous Nacra 20's stacked and flyin' down the hiway behind a beautiful shiny black truck that stands out against most other trucks all on it's own to begin with!!!

Now...for the bad part.....and all my Euro friends can get their rocks ready to throw!!! I definitely get the gas guzzler award. Normal (non-towing) MPG is 12.7 city/hiway combined 50/50, doing 85 on the hiway. Towing a single boat at 75 on the hiway...11.7. Now for the really bad news.....(Do the Euro's and Aussies have rocks ready with arms ****??)...Double stacked and only 65MPH down the hiway....a whopping 9.3MPG!!! And I'm starting a 1000 mile trip to Florida Monday!

I think I either need to buy an oil well...or start looking for a "less cool" tow vehicle!!

JL
(dodging the stones from across the pond!!)
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/12/06 02:47 AM

Yeah double stacked 20's is rough. We got 7mpg or thereabouts with Trey's truck with double stacked 20's on the way to tradewinds.
Posted By: Dlennard

Re: What do you tow with - 11/12/06 05:07 AM

Joe,
I even get better than that with a 35' RV weighing 19,500 lbs and pulling a double stack. I got around 9.5 mph on the trip up to the F18 Na's driving around 70mph. On the flat lands I can get 10 to 12 mph and better if going slower. My F250 gets around 15 to 17 towing at 70 mph.
Posted By: C2 Mike

Re: What do you tow with - 11/12/06 07:58 AM

Quote
I have a Honda Odyssey (minivan, with automatic transmission). It gets 29-30 mpg on the highway with no trailer.

Every year I end up pulling a trailer loaded with boats from Key Largo to Ohio, over the mountains. With two Hobie Waves double-stacked (and a couple sets of beach wheels) the mileage goes down to about 23 mpg.

SO, my questions are:
(1) When towing, is it easier on your vehicle if you have manual transmission or automatic?


Depends on the car. If it is underpowered for the load and constantly changing between the top two gears, a manual in 2nd top gear is probably the go. Holding an auto in 2nd top and making sure it has a cooler attached should be fine but don't run it at top speed for hours on end.

Quote
(2) What causes the decrease in mpg when you are towing? Is it the actual amount of weight on the trailer? I would think that once inertia kicks in at steady highway speeds on flat roads, the trailer would be irrelevant (but apparently NOT).

(3) Or is it the windage (drag) of the trailer and boats that brings down the mpg?


Whilst you are accelerating most you are fighting the weight at lower speeds and a combination as it increases. When you are cruising, it's mostly windage that is the problem. You are in effect driving with a big parachute out the back of your car.

Quote
(4) Or does it have something to do with the size of the trailer wheels vis-a-vis the size of the vehicle wheels?


Not with regard to MPG. I do like the idea of larger trailer wheels though. A 15" wheel will do far less RPM than a 11" wheel and thus your wheel bearings and tyres etc etc will give far less trouble.

Tiger Mike
Posted By: C2 Mike

Re: What do you tow with - 11/12/06 08:06 AM

Quote
(4) Or does it have something to do with the size of the trailer wheels vis-a-vis the size of the vehicle wheels?
There’s a number of things to consider when looking at wheels. The larger the wheel diameter, the more energy to get it spinning. There’s also bearing and road friction. One thing that would reduce drag would be to make the tire and rim narrower but the trade off would be weight capacity. [/quote]

IMHO the friction from larger dia wheel/tyre combo on a boat trailer would be virtually nil compared to that of overall wind-drag at 40+ mph. I think it would be a no-brainer in most cases.

Tiger Mike
Posted By: Mary

Re: What do you tow with - 11/12/06 08:55 AM

Has anybody heard of, or tried, air tabs? www.airtab.com

Attached picture 90022-airtabs.jpg
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: What do you tow with - 11/12/06 09:06 AM

My old tow vehicle..... Vintage Sports Car I guess

1977 Ford XC Fairmont GXL Coupe

Engine
351 ci Cleveland
2V Close chamber heads
4V Exhaust Valves
2V inlet Valves

Fuel
Methanol
Custom Nitro Methane Injection

Drive Line
Gear Box - Top Loader
Diff - 9 inch with 3.5 gears
4 wheel disc breaks
13 inch x 15 inch rear wheels (12 slot rims)
11 inch x 14 inch Front wheels (12 slot rims not pictured here)

Factory wind back sun roof.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: _flatlander_

Re: What do you tow with - 11/12/06 04:08 PM

Quote
When towing, is it easier on your vehicle if you have manual transmission or automatic?


Towing is easier on a manual tansmission. Most or some (well especially older vehicles) automatics will have a tendancy to shift in and out of overdrive more often than normal during towing, due to the additional drag and weight of the boat and trailer. Except in the case of larger vehicles with huge towing capacities, this heats up the transmission fluid more than normal operation. Check your owners manual for recommended towing practices. Some will suggest turning the overdride off (if function is available) or keeping the transmission selector in the next to highest gear (3 or 4). In either case this is preventing the transmission from making more frequent shifts.

A transmission cooler may be added by any competent mechanic and are available at all chain auto parts stores. The transmission fluid lines are routed to the front of the vehicle for cooling anyway making it a fairly easy modification that should cost less than $200. If you feel your vehicled is overworked, it's a fairly inexpensive insurance policy to have. Or, have your transmission serviced at the "Heavy use" interavals. Personaly we change the fluid more often.

Since the old days and "sport" vehivles were brought up...

Had great fun towing the spanking new '81 H16 with our '67 Camaro, 327ci/275hp. Wish we still had that little rascal. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Jake

Re: What do you tow with - 11/12/06 06:33 PM

1991 Shasta (McNasty)

[Linked Image]

Also use a scooter for local transport - '85 Honda 150 Elite - gets 72mpg and can sustain 60mph.

[Linked Image]

For local stuff where I've got somewhere to put my head...a 2000 Nissan 4WD crew cab Frontier that's gets a dismal 16mpg towing on the highway.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What do you tow with - 11/12/06 06:43 PM

Quote
Quote
[Linked Image]

Happily tows the F18 on a trailer at highway speeds.



and gets 38mpg around town.


Scarecrow, what kind of car is that?


Mary is a Peuguet 206 (already mentioned elsewhere.

With regards to the sports car question. I used to tow my A Cat with a Nissan NX (Targa top). People, your boats weight less than 3 adult passengers sitting in the back sit would. You don't need a big car to pull a beach cat.
Posted By: gree2056

Re: What do you tow with - 11/12/06 06:56 PM

Yeah, we don't need huge cars to pull our boats but....what about all the gear and stuff, plus gas is replaceable, right??
I am pretty happy with what I tow with, I can manage over 20mpg while still having an SUV with a V-8. I think I have the best of both worlds with my ford explorer.
Posted By: SteveT

Re: What do you tow with - 11/12/06 08:25 PM

I have a Ford F250 with the 6.0 liter diesel. I get about 15 m.p.g. on the highway with just the boat if I keep the speed at or below 75. I usually tow a 27-foot 5th wheel (maybe 8,000 pounds) with the boat behind that. It's reasonably comfortable and is a four-door so I can carry the family or crew and still have lots of room for gear. I drove it to Texoma and got 9.5 to 12.5 m.p.g. at 70 m.p.h. It has trailer brakes so control is really good, even with the train, and power is never an issue. I can go way faster than I'd ever want to with all that stuff hanging off the back and I can still pass pretty easily. Without anything on it, I get 21+ on the highway and 16 around town.
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: What do you tow with - 11/12/06 08:55 PM

I must agree with Scarecrow. You dont need a V-8 or even a V-6 to pull a beachcat. Not even over mountains.. My Ford Focus 1.6liters is sufficient even with a Tornado+tools/spares on the trailer and camping gear in the back. Milage is good even then. But I would not choose a french car for it, Scarecrow <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mary: Check http://www.peugeot.com/en/default.htm for more Peugeots.
Posted By: Frozen

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 12:35 AM

Automatic transmissions use about 5% more fuel.

My first car a Mercedes 200 (very used... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />) had a fantastic manual. It gave fuel mileages throughout it's speed range. Best mileage was around 30 mph or 50 km/h.

If there is a headwind, try driving at night as there is normally less wind. This will save fuel and make for a lot less road weave. Also less traffic. Also air is denser, so you have more power.

I have a question. I have never towed my Tiger on the highway but may be doing so next summer. How is it in the wind? Will be using a Toyota Rav4

Mary, the air tabs? www.airtab.com sounds like a great idea. At USD $ 2.50 each, you need 3 per foot, so for a van or truck the investment would be low. Just a matter of having to answer all the people who say... "whas dat?"
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 12:53 PM

Quote
I must agree with Scarecrow. You dont need a V-8 or even a V-6 to pull a beachcat. Not even over mountains.. My Ford Focus 1.6liters is sufficient even with a Tornado+tools/spares on the trailer and camping gear in the back.


So wait, my Mountain Dew bottle is 3 litres and your engine is only 1.6?

Yet again, people telling us that we don't need our big cars.

WE KNOW WE DON'T NEED THEM. WE LIKE THEM AND THATS WHY WE HAVE THEM.

I mean jesus, I drive a 2 door, AWD gas-guzzling SUV thats about as practical as a football bat and I love it to death. I baby it. I sing lullaby's to it at night to make sure it gets to bed ok. It takes $50 to fill it up, but guess what, every penny of it is worth it because my vehicle is part of who I am.

So yeah, I don't need a 3.5 litre forced induction V6 on 32"x12" tires, but I LOVE IT AND YOU'LL HAVE TO PRY IT OUT OF MY COLD, DEAD HANDS YOU COMMIE BASTIDS!

(last line embellished for effect)
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 01:45 PM

Yes yes, I hope you enjoy it just as much when your government buckle in to the pressure and triple the cost of gas, and put extra taxes on all fun cars. I would like to drive the same kind of car as you have, it would be great fun. But I can not afford it, and after some consideration, its not really neccesary either.


Quote
WE KNOW WE DON'T NEED THEM. WE LIKE THEM AND THATS WHY WE HAVE THEM.

So yeah, I don't need a 3.5 litre forced induction V6 on 32"x12" tires, but I LOVE IT AND YOU'LL HAVE TO PRY IT OUT OF MY COLD, DEAD HANDS YOU COMMIE BASTIDS!



Please grow up.
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 01:49 PM

Quote
Yes yes, I hope you enjoy it just as much when your government buckle in to the pressure and triple the cost of gas, and put extra taxes on all fun cars.


One word...... Methanol
It is now cheaper than fuel. Just don't get caught with it <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 01:53 PM

Hey Steve,

that technology is coming trough here in scandinavia as well (or better Ethanol?). Think about it, destilling your own fuel <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Should make for some really great parties if ethanol is used, but take care to lock your fuel tank.
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 02:08 PM

Quote
Please grow up.


Your tone rings of jealousy.

HAHA HAHA HA HAHAHA. Man I feel sorry for you.

Wait till they unveil the "Ford Excuse". 37mpg, soda can sheet metal, and the briggs and stratton v2 engine!

I'm in the market actually right now for a H2 SUT. I'll have big gas guzzler and small gas guzzler!

(fwiw, my fiancee drives a 2004 honda accord. Well, she DID until she hit a pothole and bent the frame on the stupid thing)
Posted By: Jake

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 02:50 PM

For the record, Maugan20 does not speak for all of us in the States.
Posted By: PTP

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 02:55 PM

Quote
Yes yes, I hope you enjoy it just as much when your government buckle in to the pressure and triple the cost of gas, and put extra taxes on all fun cars. I would like to drive the same kind of car as you have, it would be great fun. But I can not afford it, and after some consideration, its not really neccesary either.


Quote
WE KNOW WE DON'T NEED THEM. WE LIKE THEM AND THATS WHY WE HAVE THEM.

So yeah, I don't need a 3.5 litre forced induction V6 on 32"x12" tires, but I LOVE IT AND YOU'LL HAVE TO PRY IT OUT OF MY COLD, DEAD HANDS YOU COMMIE BASTIDS!



Please grow up.


I think gas should stay at, or get above 3$ a gallon. But me thinks we have had this discussion before.
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 02:57 PM

Quote
For the record, Maugan20 does not speak for all of us in the States.


Truely it is a sad day when even my close buddy Jake cannot see the latent sarcasm and over-the-top embellishment of my posts.
Posted By: fin.

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 02:57 PM

Anyone familiar with current tax law? Time was, gas hogs were getting favorable treatment. Maybe that will change and gas misers will get the favorable treatment.

And, what's the smallest car you could tow a beach cat with? Used to tow a H16 with a '78 Corolla.
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 03:03 PM

Quote
It takes $50 to fill it up, but guess what, every penny of it is worth it because my vehicle is part of who I am.

You will like it a whole lot less when you pay the gasprices we do overhere. ($6.48 for a gallon of gasoline(Euro95)).
Just so that i'm not making this up: http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9006568&contentId=7013213

Do your own math: Currency Converter

Misc. conversions: http://www.onlineconversion.com/

MauganN20: Just how much food does a troll need nowadays? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 03:10 PM

Since it wasn't apparent that my former posts were meant to be read with a fleck of humor (something thats severely lacking around here btw) here's how I really feel. And no, not every American agrees with me. We're all unique individuals with our own ideas.

1) I drive a gas-inefficient car because I can, and I like it.

2) I can afford to drive it until gas hits about $7 a gallon. Why? Because I work from home and my commute consists of walking to the coffee maker and back to my office.

3) I don't think the government should artificially tax gasoline. People forget that hard-working people like truck drivers, landscape workers, delivery truck drivers, etc depend on *AFFORDABLE* gasoline.

4) *AFFORDABLE* is a relative term. 100 years ago, $50 could buy you a house. Artificially plucking at the threads of the free market economy can have disasterous results. (FWIW, I think the minimum wage should be abolished as well) Gas prices naturally rising to $3 due to market forces is understable, and adaptable; prices naturally inflate over time.

5) I will not be pontificated upon by a snotty, "smartest guy in the room" foreigner who has little, if any idea what everyday life in America is all about. Respectfully sirs, if you want to drive smaller cars, by all means, have at it. But when you sit there and tell me that you hope people "wake up" and tax "luxury" vehicles you need to realize the implications on our economy/society beyond just taking behemoths off the road.
Posted By: NCSUtrey

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 03:16 PM

****. People drive what they want/can afford to drive. That's the way it is.
Off to the gas station now...
Posted By: Robi

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 03:25 PM

Maugan I totally agree with your statement regarding humor around here. Seems to me people dont smile very often here. Its funny because I was just thinking about this. People when sailing barely have fun. WHY? Why cant we have fun in the threads as well? What is the big deal?

I drive a Twin Turbo charged V6 500+ all wheel horsepower vehicle as well. I get around 12mpg because of all the stuff I have done to it (I am into cars as well) oh but I dont tow my boat with it YET! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 03:28 PM

Quote
For the record, Maugan20 does not speak for all of us in the States.


I believe he speaks for all younger, male, unmarried, no kids, "living-life-to-the fullest", extra cash, advertising influenced people in the US.

More power to him! It will make my fuel futures contracts go up... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

As of late, ethanol still takes more "energy" (in the form of fertilizer, tractor fuel, processing energy, etc.) to create than it delivers. There is work to reduce the energy input, through more efficient ethanol fermentation.

Also, without subsidies, it is still more expensive than gas

There is no widespread distribution infrastructure, either.

It is unlikely we will run out of fossil fuel in our lifetime, so the urge to change the system is largely ignored by consumer nations.

Is China developing ethanol? Their energy needs are skyrocketing, and they'd stand to benefit most from starting "fresh" with alternative energy strategies.
Posted By: Robi

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 03:30 PM

Maugan (Tad) is a DINK.

Same here.

*waits till someone asks what a DINK is <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 03:34 PM

I went from DINK and a N20 to OIOK and no boat.

If I were OIFK, I could get gub'ment cheese and subsidies for the boat payments.

Here's to social services!
Posted By: Jake

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 03:35 PM

Quote
Quote
For the record, Maugan20 does not speak for all of us in the States.


Truely it is a sad day when even my close buddy Jake cannot see the latent sarcasm and over-the-top embellishment of my posts.


If it was there...sorry - I'm speed reading since being out of touch (on honeymoon) for all of last week and I missed the sarcasm.
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 03:36 PM

Quote
Maugan (Tad) is a DINK.


I've been called worse :P

For the record, I'm getting married in June, so, that profile is largely true. However I don't watch TV except for sporting events so the effects of advertising are slim to none.

I admit though I do fall for flashy box marketting products from time to time. I can't tell you how many FRAM oil filters I bought before I found out they were rubbish.
Posted By: PTP

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 03:37 PM

AHHH Yes, I am a DIN1K and can, thankfully, afford the gas as can Maug evidently. It is just hard to wave that in the face of people who pay 2-3 times as much for gas.
Posted By: blockp

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 03:41 PM

Look at the posts flood in on this one <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just curious. On that side of the pond, what do your service workers drive to their job sites (builders, roofers, plumbers, landscapers, general handyman, etc)?

I drive a ford f150 supercrew. It does get used as my tow vehicle, but the real reason I own it is because I own a number of rental properties that I do maintenance on. I also have a wife, 2 kids, 2 dogs and a cabin a few hundred miles away from home. I tried doing the trailer thing for years by always putting a hitch in my audi 4000’s, 200’s and a4’s. I generally put on about 40k miles a year on my vehicle, my wife puts about 10k on hers.

I hated paying for the extra fuel when it’s just me in the car commuting to my day job (70 miles round trip), but the small size of the car when going north, or trying to pull a trailer load of lumber or sheetrock to a rental was just too impractical. I bit the bullet and bought a truck to handle the jobs. It costs me more at the pump, but it saves me time and that’s worth more than the extra I pay at the pump. I always have my “trailer” with me now. Besides, it’s tough to find a snow plow to fit my other vehicle, Audi a6 avant (although it’s certainly more capable in snow than my truck <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ).

To Maugans point about artificially taxing fuel. If you artificially tax me on the fuel to drive my truck to and from my apartments, guess what… I’m not going to pay that extra tax, I’m going to pass that cost onto my tenants who are paying me to keep their place livable and under good repair. Follow that chain of events and see what happens to the economy in 10 years. Can you say recession?
Posted By: Robi

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 03:46 PM

ahhahaha You guys have no idea what DINK means?!!? Niether did I at first.
Double, Income, No Kids
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 03:47 PM

And...

One Income, One Kid (OIOK)

One Income, Four Kids (OIFK)... Where's Timbo? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 03:48 PM

Quote
To Maugans point about artificially taxing fuel. If you artificially tax me on the fuel to drive my truck to and from my apartments, guess what… I’m not going to pay that extra tax, I’m going to pass that cost onto my tenants who are paying me to keep their place livable and under good repair. Follow that chain of events and see what happens to the economy in 10 years. Can you say recession?


From the horses' mouth.

I swear I want to pull my hair out by its roots when someone advocates a "sin tax" on gasoline. Its as if these corporations are just going to bite the bullet and say "oh well, I guess we'll absorb theses costs."

Just imagine what your grocery bill would be like to feed a typical family of 4 on top of having to pay for that gas? You think that trucking company is just going to say "well we feel bad for you Mister Grocery store, so here's your usual bill even though we're paying 3 times what we used to for fuel. Have a nice day."

Actually, I'm a SINK, since I'm paying Kate's medical school bills and she has no income at all.

Posted By: PTP

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 03:56 PM

Quote
Quote
To Maugans point about artificially taxing fuel. If you artificially tax me on the fuel to drive my truck to and from my apartments, guess what… I’m not going to pay that extra tax, I’m going to pass that cost onto my tenants who are paying me to keep their place livable and under good repair. Follow that chain of events and see what happens to the economy in 10 years. Can you say recession?


From the horses' mouth.

I swear I want to pull my hair out by its roots when someone advocates a "sin tax" on gasoline. Its as if these corporations are just going to bite the bullet and say "oh well, I guess we'll absorb theses costs."

Just imagine what your grocery bill would be like to feed a typical family of 4 on top of having to pay for that gas? You think that trucking company is just going to say "well we feel bad for you Mister Grocery store, so here's your usual bill even though we're paying 3 times what we used to for fuel. Have a nice day."


Gas prices should gradually rise to 4-5$ a gallon. Everyone was worried that the economy would "collapse" when gas got above 3$ and it didn't.
Better a gradual rise then BLAM gas hits 7$ a gallon because we are in a battle with China for limited imports.
Remember when gas was getting really "expensive?" The oil companies made record profits. I would rather that be a tax than for the oil companies who are clearly price gouging.
Posted By: blockp

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 04:00 PM

Quote

Just imagine what your grocery bill would be like to feed a typical family of 4 on top of having to pay for that gas? You think that trucking company is just going to say "well we feel bad for you Mister Grocery store, so here's your usual bill even though we're paying 3 times what we used to for fuel. Have a nice day."


Yup, if it costs me more to provide my service, it's going to cost you more to receive my service. That's just the way it is.
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 04:05 PM

Quote
Remember when gas was getting really "expensive?" The oil companies made record profits. I would rather that be a tax than for the oil companies who are clearly price gauging.


As if what the federal government is doing ISN'T price gouging? Even worse, if you decide you don't like the price of your taxes you go to jail! Better yet, what return on investment do I get with the federal government? Unless 100% of it goes to military spending, I'd argue that I get NOTHING out of it. (State taxes are another story, where I get roads and infrastructure)

As for the gas getting "expensive" this last go-round, it was in direct correllation to the price of crude oil. I fail to see how the direct relationship between the price of crude and the price of fuel amounts to "price fixing". Have you stopped to think that maybe the oil companies are just selling more fuel? It IS a very inelastic commodity yaknow.

As for EVIL oil companies, more power to em. Making money hand over fist... so so so EVIL. OHhhh how they should be despised!
Posted By: blockp

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 04:11 PM

Quote

Remember when gas was getting really "expensive?" The oil companies made record profits. I would rather that be a tax than for the oil companies who are clearly price gouging.


Did you forget that when fuel went over 2.50, every shipping company and airline was adding a fuel sur-charge to their invoices?

Do you think that just because there's a luxury tax on fuel, the oil companies are going to quit meeting their profit margin? So, let me get this right... on top of the oil companies margin, you want uncle Sam to take a bigger cut than he already is. I don't understan how that is going to help anything?

Maybe explain the concept to me so I can see the light.
Posted By: pdwarren

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 04:19 PM

Quote

5) I will not be pontificated upon by a snotty, "smartest guy in the room" foreigner who has little, if any idea what everyday life in America is all about. Respectfully sirs, if you want to drive smaller cars, by all means, have at it. But when you sit there and tell me that you hope people "wake up" and tax "luxury" vehicles you need to realize the implications on our economy/society beyond just taking behemoths off the road.


Wandering way off-topic, what is interesting is just how big the cultural difference is between the US and Europe on this point. Cost of petrol here is several times what it is in the US and yet we're talking about further taxing it under the banner of "green taxation". The implications for this for our economy and society are very much the same as for yours (how do you think we shift stuff around?), yet it's now something that UK (and I think most European) voters will now consider. The economy doesn't "collapse", it just adapts to the increased cost.

By European standards, I consider myself an un-green petrol-head (I also own a petrol-hungry and totally unnecessary sports car, which I often drive just for the sake of it), and yet when I visit America I see the level of wasteful consumption as genuinely offensive to my European values.

The fact that MauganN20 will pull his hair out when someone suggests a sin tax on your side of the pond is just a testament to how big the cultural divide is. Over here, it's something that's viewed as increasingly necessary.

I really would like to believe that us Europeans are just a bunch of wet greenies, that the environmentalists have got it wrong and that there really is no problem with our current level of consumption and pollution. But after a few decades of greenie-bashing and denial, consensus over here is increasingly that that's just not the case.

So you are you guys going to "catch-up", or have we really got it all wrong? Time will tell, I guess.

Paul
Posted By: pdwarren

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 04:27 PM

Quote

Just curious. On that side of the pond, what do your service workers drive to their job sites (builders, roofers, plumbers, landscapers, general handyman, etc)?


Ford Transit is standard: http://www.ford.co.uk/ns7/transit/-/tv_intro_4/-/-/-/-

2.2L or 2.4L Diesel engine. These things are quite comfortable doing 90mph on the motorway, which is as fast as I really need my plumber to go...

Quote

To Maugans point about artificially taxing fuel. If you artificially tax me on the fuel to drive my truck to and from my apartments, guess what… I’m not going to pay that extra tax, I’m going to pass that cost onto my tenants who are paying me to keep their place livable and under good repair. Follow that chain of events and see what happens to the economy in 10 years. Can you say recession?


Sure, if it's done excessively. If it's done more gradually, you find that suppliers such as yourself become more sensitive to how much fuel they use, because that becomes a more significant cost in the service you provide. In order to be competitive, you need to be more efficient.

Paul
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 04:38 PM

Quote
The fact that MauganN20 will pull his hair out when someone suggests a sin tax on your side of the pond is just a testament to how big the cultural divide is. Over here, it's something that's viewed as increasingly necessary.


Well, I'm admittedly very extreme on the matters of governmental involvement. I'm of the opinion that government should butt out of a lot of things such as welfare, education, healthcare, and "pet projects".

Quote
So you are you guys going to "catch-up", or have we really got it all wrong? Time will tell, I guess.


I'm still trying to figure out just how an additional tax on the lifeblood of the American economy is going to help anyone?

Quote
Cost of petrol here is several times what it is in the US and yet we're talking about further taxing it under the banner of "green taxation".


The cultural divide here, is not over gasoline. Its over the role of government and its authority to alter an economy. Personally, I'm not willing to give that power to any pencil-necked dweeb in Washington, regardless of his/her party affiliation.

Europeans are generally being taxed at what we consider obscene and downright criminal rates. Unlike the generally socialist nature of Europe, we like having direct control over where our money is spent. Over there, apparently you think that government knows best how to spend your earned income. Over here, government is the LAST place I'd want to put the trust of my money. Adding a tax to something as critical as fuel prices to further an agenda that I think is bogus to begin with isn't something I can exactly stand behind.

Quote
So you are you guys going to "catch-up", or have we really got it all wrong? Time will tell, I guess.


You say this as if you believe that socialist style taxation is an evolution of government, whereas I see it as a deficiency. You get offended at our "obscene consumption" well I'm offended at the "obscene elitist attitude" that is drooled down upon us "ignorant" Americans on an almost daily basis.
Posted By: PTP

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 04:39 PM

Quote
Quote

Remember when gas was getting really "expensive?" The oil companies made record profits. I would rather that be a tax than for the oil companies who are clearly price gouging.


Did you forget that when fuel went over 2.50, every shipping company and airline was adding a fuel sur-charge to their invoices?

Do you think that just because there's a luxury tax on fuel, the oil companies are going to quit meeting their profit margin? So, let me get this right... on top of the oil companies margin, you want uncle Sam to take a bigger cut than he already is. I don't understan how that is going to help anything?

Maybe explain the concept to me so I can see the light.

If one has the money to pay for gas for a car that gets 12 MPG, then there shouldn't be a problem with them paying for the "surcharge" for the extra money companies have to spend to get crap from a-b.
My point is that in order for the sh-- to not REALLY hit the fan (gas jumping from 2$ to 6$) then gas prices should rise, whether oil companies want to take that money or taxes I don't necessarily really care (however, Tad, your wife's income when she is a doc will likely largely come from the federal gov in the form of medicare payments).
Aside from the clear "thread drift" Tad, you said you don't mind the fed gov spending money on defense. My salary is paid by the gov (USAF) but what has the defense department done for you lately? And besides, I'm am not the biggest fan of having to travel all over the world trying to manipulate foreign goverments or killing their citizens in the name of 2-3$ gas.
Posted By: PTP

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 04:43 PM

Quote
Quote

Just curious. On that side of the pond, what do your service workers drive to their job sites (builders, roofers, plumbers, landscapers, general handyman, etc)?


Ford Transit is standard: http://www.ford.co.uk/ns7/transit/-/tv_intro_4/-/-/-/-

2.2L or 2.4L Diesel engine. These things are quite comfortable doing 90mph on the motorway, which is as fast as I really need my plumber to go...

Quote

To Maugans point about artificially taxing fuel. If you artificially tax me on the fuel to drive my truck to and from my apartments, guess what… I’m not going to pay that extra tax, I’m going to pass that cost onto my tenants who are paying me to keep their place livable and under good repair. Follow that chain of events and see what happens to the economy in 10 years. Can you say recession?


Sure, if it's done excessively. If it's done more gradually, you find that suppliers such as yourself become more sensitive to how much fuel they use, because that becomes a more significant cost in the service you provide. In order to be competitive, you need to be more efficient.

Paul

thanks for saying that better than me <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 04:47 PM

Quote
Wandering way off-topic, what is interesting is just how big the cultural difference is between the US and Europe on this point. Cost of petrol here is several times what it is in the US and yet we're talking about further taxing it under the banner of "green taxation".
I watch the Tour de France religiously every year. I’ve noticed in the last two years that people who camped in tents along the route have been replaced by walls of recreation vehicles (I believe they’re called caravans in Europe). Has the price of fuel stabilized or dropped or is the economy doing so good that the fuel expense is no longer a consideration?
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 04:48 PM

Quote
(however, Tad, your wife's income when she is a doc will likely largely come from the federal gov).


So?

I'd rather she be paid by her patients out of their own pockets and privately owned, non-government subsidized insurance companies.

Thats not relevant to this conversation <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Quote
salary is paid by the gov (USAF) but what has the defense department done for you lately?


It upholds one of the tenants of the founding documents. I'm paraphrasing here, but...

The government shall collect taxes for the purposes of establishing a common defense and general welfare for the people.

The military also kills people and breaks things that belong to organizations that would kill me if they had the opportunity. Well worth the price of admission in my book.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 04:48 PM

If I tow a Hobie 20 with a Fort GT, at what speed will the boat and trailer become airborne?
Posted By: Hans_Ned_111

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 04:51 PM

Why should we tow the boat we also can carry it with a car
Regards,
Hans

Attached picture 90165-07a22d90.jpg
Posted By: blockp

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 05:04 PM

First, sorry to anyone reading this thread looking for hints on what to pull their cat with <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But the different view points are quite interesting to me and I’d be happy to move this to a new thread.

Quote

Sure, if it's done excessively. If it's done more gradually, you find that suppliers such as yourself become more sensitive to how much fuel they use, because that becomes a more significant cost in the service you provide. In order to be competitive, you need to be more efficient.

Paul


Point well taken and understood. To make a point, I was being extreme by mentioning the “R” word. Economies don’t just gravitate towards a recession and once in one, barring extreme circumstances (war, etc), the general economy will naturally come out of it and stabilize (even it the “new” economy is based on trade).

Quote
The cultural divide here, is not over gasoline. Its over the role of government and its authority to alter an economy. Personally, I'm not willing to give that power to any pencil-necked dweeb in Washington, regardless of his/her party affiliation.

Europeans are generally being taxed at what we consider obscene and downright criminal rates. Unlike the generally socialist nature of Europe, we like having direct control over where our money is spent. Over there, apparently you think that government knows best how to spend your earned income. Over here, government is the LAST place I'd want to put the trust of my money. Adding a tax to something as critical as fuel prices to further an agenda that I think is bogus to begin with isn't something I can exactly stand behind.


Agreed. I don’t want the government to force me to run my company efficiently, I want the apartment owner across the street to force me to be efficient… or in my case, because I am a numbers guy and keep a close handle on my buildings, I am generally able to undercut the apartments around me while offering better services. I stay 90-100% full, when others are complaining about 50-60% occupancy rate. Why should the government dictate how I get materials from one building to another. Should they also force me to use a specific plumber or appliance repairman too?
Posted By: PTP

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 05:09 PM

My main point is that if only market forces are allowed to affect gas prices then given the limited production/refining the cost will change drastically- which would be worse than if it were brought up slowly.
Later,
lets go sailing...
Posted By: blockp

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 05:14 PM

Quote

If one has the money to pay for gas for a car that gets 12 MPG, then there shouldn't be a problem with them paying for the "surcharge" for the extra money companies have to spend to get crap from a-b.

But you're not just adding the fuel surcharge to the people who can afford to pay for a vehicle that gets 12 mpg. Even the person who rides his bicycle to work is going to be forced to pay more for his plumber when they need work done.
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 05:18 PM

blockp: will you be my running mate?

Paul R. Nelson can be our campaign real estate agent <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: blockp

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 05:19 PM

Quote
My main point is that if only market forces are allowed to affect gas prices then given the limited production/refining the cost will change drastically- which would be worse than if it were brought up slowly.
Later,
lets go sailing...

Oh, here we go, picking on the underprivileged again <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Just because it's all nice and warm down in florida, doesn't mean it's that way in Wisconsin <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I'd love to go sailing, but I just covered and stored my boat until it thaws out again. So, when do you want company <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: blockp

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 05:23 PM

Quote
blockp: will you be my running mate?

Paul R. Nelson can be our campaign real estate agent <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Oh, I could never... you know, I really don't like to become involved in any sort of politically charged conversations and such <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: pdwarren

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 05:33 PM

Quote


Well, I'm admittedly very extreme on the matters of governmental involvement.



We've actually got more in common than you'd think. I'm generally in favour of reducing the size of our civil service because I believe that such "public" institutions are a fabulously inefficient way of doing things.

But the fact is that the government is going to tax you, and if you believe that they won't be devicive in how and where they tax you, you're kidding yourself. Right now in Europe, taxing petrol is looking like more of a vote winner than the traditional game of taxing the rich.

Quote

I'm still trying to figure out just how an additional tax on the lifeblood of the American economy is going to help anyone?


Increasing tax on gas doesn't necessarily mean an increase in the overall tax burden. If your politicians are anything like ours it probably will do, but that's a separate issue... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Quote

Europeans are generally being taxed at what we consider obscene and downright criminal rates. Unlike the generally socialist nature of Europe, we like having direct control over where our money is spent. Over there, apparently you think that government knows best how to spend your earned income. Over here, government is the LAST place I'd want to put the trust of my money. Adding a tax to something as critical as fuel prices to further an agenda that I think is bogus to begin with isn't something I can exactly stand behind.


In general, I agree with you, and I'd like to see less government involvement. Free capitalism solves many problems well, but not all: and unless you'd advocate zero taxation, I think you'd agree with me.

Quote

Quote
So you are you guys going to "catch-up", or have we really got it all wrong? Time will tell, I guess.


You say this as if you believe that socialist style taxation is an evolution of government, whereas I see it as a deficiency.


Not at all. A cultural shift on environmental issues doesn't have to imply a change to government involvement. It could just as well happen through capitalism if consumers were to start demanding "greener" products. Of course, if that happened your government would try to cash in with its own "green" products (i.e. green taxes). Contributions to this thread suggest that this shift isn't going to happen any time soon.

And European voters are increasingly saying that they don't trust capitalism to sort it out fast enough.

Quote

You get offended at our "obscene consumption" well I'm offended at the "obscene elitist attitude" that is drooled down upon us "ignorant" Americans on an almost daily basis.


I'm not sure how to respond to that constructively. Have I said or even implied that Americans are ignorant?

Paul
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 05:36 PM

Is that picture from the Netherlands, Hans? Norwegian police would go bonkers if they encountered something like that on the road <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />



Tad, I understood that the last line of the post that made this thread ignite was an attempt at humour. But I did not think it was especially funny. Growing up with the Soviet Union in your backyard during the cold war, serving three years in a first line armoured unit and later working together with people from eastern Germany and other USSR countries tend to give you a bit of perspective on communism. First post and later argumentation comes across as a blind eyed justification for keeping your lifestyle. Knowing that we both are going to see large changes in our environment due to global heating and increasing amounts of Co2 in the atmosphere is not much fun. What you say sounds very much like the typical hardcore right-wing PR I see in american media daily.

We europeans dont want to force you to change your lifestyle, but the free market and clima changes will. We are just now beginning to see the effects of market economy and consumer demand in China. India is coming online as well, and other contries are following suit. The oil market is growing every day, and we have perhaps already seen peak oil (I dont know about peak oil, I think those theories are too radical). Either we come up with some new ways to fuel our cars, or transportation will become very expensive in a while. Methanole is one way around it, as is bio-oil. Here in scandinavia we have lots of woods, so they are researching ways to quickly produce methanole and ethanole from wood. This might be a good solution for a densely populated area with economic cars like scandinavia, but you in the U.S have a real problem coming with your car pool and mentality. Efficiency is good, both in cars and boats.

It will be a sorry day when we can't get our oil based mylar sails anymore and must go back to flax or cotton. (this was for you Robi <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 05:38 PM

That last line, to me, read like "American's need to catch up to Europeans" which is what I referenced as the elitist attitude.
Posted By: pdwarren

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 05:50 PM

Nope - there was another option. Either we have a serious environmental crisis looming, in which case I think it is the case that America is behind Europe in dealing with it (just take the average of engine sizes mentioned in this thread). Or Europeans are over-reacting.

I can't believe how much of a tree-hugger I sound like...

Paul
Posted By: Rhino1302

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 07:03 PM

The US gas tax is essentially a "user fee" for the highway system. Revenues from the federal tax go into the "highway trust fund" and every five years (or whenever congress gets off its lazy butt) congress passes a "highway bill" (now known by cool acronyms like ISETEA, TEA-21, SAFETEA-LU) which allocates those funds to State DOTs and pork-barrel projects (like the famous "bridge to nowhere" in Alaska).

The point being that the US gas tax was not intended for environmental purposes or to change behavior. It's a way to fund transportation projects.

Maybe the european taxes had a different purpose, or european voters have accepted a gradual change in scope more willingly than US voters.
Posted By: Will_R

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 07:26 PM

Ok, I've sat, I've watched the train wreck.... now... guess I'll jump back in.

I personally drive my guzzler b/c I have three horses weighing 1,350, 1,100 and 1,200 (still growing) lbs. If I didn't, I wouldn't own the thing. I like being one of the biggest vehicles on the road, but... The real problem is all the "soccer moms" who drive them as status symbols. I actually need my truck, most ppl don't.

Next, Maug if you think that fuel taxes are such a waste, realize that the majority of that money goes to two things. Infrastructure (roads) and cleanup for fuel related incidents. If you go to most gas stations, there is a sticker that tells you how much tax was put on your fuel and breaks it down between fed and state. The state gov gets HUGE quantities of money for road projects from the federal gov. That is part of the reason that we have the speed limits we do. If a state wants to set it's own at 90mph, they can, however they forfeit all the fed subsides for their road maintenance. Also, the cleanup of fuel spills is big business and much needed. If you knew what was sitting under the ground of the majority of gas stations in the US, you would be SHOCKED. Personally what pisses me off is social security and welfare, they can tax the gas. I would MUCH rather see that money go into my 401k to support me latter than into a bottomless hole where I will never see it again. Also, I have heard rumors of taxing hybrids at a higher rate b/c they are not "paying for their use" of the roads like the rest of us.

Last, REAL hot button issue. I work for a HUGE defense contractor, we make environmental software for the DoD. I do nothing but air emissions work now. You want to get some people riled up my office, bring up global warming. Let me sum it up, man-made global warming is a CROCK OF SH*T!!!. If you believe in it, explain to me how a gas that makes up ~2.5% of the total "greenhouse" effect has caused the change that we see? Let's also consider that humans only emit ~3.4% of the TOTAL CO2 emitted into the atmosphere. A good link that sums a lot of data up.

http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/

It's not us that is causing this.

Off my soap box.
Posted By: fin.

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 07:29 PM

Quote
That last line, to me, read like "American's need to catch up to Europeans" which is what I referenced as the elitist attitude.


<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Twister

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 07:40 PM

Regarding human influenced global warming being a "crock of ...” .
As a scientist, my only comment to this stupid remark, is research what you are talking about before making such a ridiculous claim.
Posted By: Will_R

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 07:44 PM

Did you read the link? Do you know I'm an engineer? I did the research, I can't tell you the massive quantity of documentation I've read. Al Gore is a dip sh*t and the only think inconvenient a/b his movie is that it pisses me off every time I hear something a/b him or it...
Posted By: Robi

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 07:47 PM

So what was this thread about again? Gas? politics? SUVs SUTs? Maugan or our EU brothers?

Talk about serious sidetracking!
Posted By: Twister

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 07:48 PM

Al Gore may be a dip sh%%, but human induced global climate change is real. Has your research against this been published??
Posted By: Will_R

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 08:02 PM

Read this:
http://www.oism.org/pproject/review.pdf

Not published:
http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/Cosmic_rays_and_climate.htm

Then, mix a little of this: http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/stp/SOLAR/solarda3.html
with some of that: http://web.dmi.dk/solar-terrestrial/space_weather/

This one is great, he says "If global warming is caused by CO2 in the atmosphere then does CO2 also cause increased sun activity too?"
http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/tempCO2_vs_solwind.html

Oh and back on target, my 3/4 ton Chevrolet does a great job with the boat <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: jbecker

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 08:07 PM

I tow with a 1994 Subaru Legacy wagon. Works better on the highway with a good tailwind, but it does what I need and handles beach sand pretty well too.

As for JunkScience.com, try getting your information from sources that involve actual science instead. Source Watch on JunkScience.com
Posted By: MartinRF

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 08:31 PM

2 litre, 4-banger Honda:
http://hem.bredband.net/b262106/Boat/trailer.html

/Martin
Posted By: Banzilla

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 08:34 PM

Is this 3 in a row on topic?

93 F150 302 4x4 ex cab BLACK
Posted By: Will_R

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 08:34 PM

You may not like junkscience.com, but he didn't create the data only grouped it in a concise way. I've read much of the underlying research from which he built his pages from. I can understand it b/c of my education, many cannot.

There is money and power in global warming, that's why it's at the forefront like it is. The only thing that we know and nobody will admit to is that we don't know the whole story. It's getting warmer and WE DON'T know why, however we do know that we are coming out of an ice age and that temperatures were much warmer in the past than they are now. A gas that makes up ~0.035% of the atmosphere is minor in comparison to water vapor when you let at the spectrograph of absorbencies of light. Water vapor accounts for ~95% of the "greenhouse" effect.

And for the EU being so far ahead... As of last year, 10 of 15 were well behind on meeting their Kyoto goals with only Sweden and the UK being on track. The rest of the countries have INCREASED their CO2 emissions. Heck, Canada alone was up 23+% since Koyoto. They all talk a good game.....

"We have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we may have. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest."
-Stephen Schneider (leading advocate of the global warming theory)

"Researchers pound the global-warming drum because they know there is politics and, therefore, money behind it. . . I've been critical of global warming and am persona non grata."
-Dr. William Gray
(Professor of Atmospheric Sciences at Colorado State University, Fort Collins, Colorado and leading expert of hurricane prediction)

Sorry for the OT, but... GW is a serious pet peeve of mine
Posted By: Twister

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 08:42 PM

96 1.8L Mazda 626. Tows the F18 fine, better downhill with a tailwind.
Replaced it wit an 07 Caliber SXT 1.8L but haven't got a hitch on it yet.
Posted By: blockp

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 08:56 PM

Wow! I go to a couple lousy meetings and look what this thread has turned into.

I am not well enough informed on the GH and GW issues so I am not about to get into that mess.

Seeing all of these small cars mentioned just reminded me that my brother pulled his '67 larson 18' "ski" boat with his mitsubishi spider eclipse.

Now that was a sight. We had to power up the boat to help the car pull it out of the launch <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Dermot

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 09:03 PM

2000 Subaru Legacy 2 Litre Saloon. Plenty of power for towing. AWD great for grassy camping areas, boat parks etc.

(It seems a shame to guzzle and waste our oil supplies which are finite and took millions of years to accumulate.)
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 09:11 PM

Global Warming? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/05/nosplit/nwarm05.xml

If someone had the audacity to actually read my post, I said that I don't mind taxes that support certain things LIKE ROADS AND INFRASTRUCTURE AND DEFENSE.

I think I'm going to go back and talk to my cat.
Posted By: Jake

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 09:17 PM

Quote
Al Gore may be a dip sh%%, but human induced global climate change is real. Has your research against this been published??


I would probably put a check mark in the "undecided" column when it comes to the causes of global warming. However, there is a ton of evidence that such climate swings are commonplace when you look outside our perceptual micro-time-line and beyond our modern carbon-dioxide producing capabilities. Even as recently as the middle-age there is plenty of evidence that the earth was in a Little Ice Age. Certainly it stands to reason that a similar natural change could swing us to a warming trend. I do tend to get a little suspicious when people ignore or choose to argue away such indisputable evidence when talking about global warming. Now that it's a high level political quagmire, I believe less of what I hear about it than ever before.

We still don't have a very accurate (rather...agreed upon) way of measuring "the earth's mean temperature" which makes it difficult to look at a chart showing 2 degree rise and get excited about it. Take a look at this chart (which is a little confusing since it puts the current period on the left) that goes back to about 9500 BC. Chart
Posted By: Dermot

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 09:18 PM

Quote
If someone had the audacity to actually read my post, I said that I don't mind taxes that support certain things LIKE ROADS AND INFRASTRUCTURE AND DEFENSE.

Audacity <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 09:20 PM

play on words. Holy smokes do I have to use Oxford english around here? (pdwarren is an exception ok?)
Posted By: Mary

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 09:36 PM

Is this thread an example of "road rage"?

Apparently, "global warming" should join religion and politics on the list of forbidden subjects among friends and relatives. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: jbecker

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 09:48 PM

Heck, I figure all this GW, GM, and PO stuff falls under the "meaningless discussion" clause of the preamble to the question in the initial post for this thread. For some, these topics have a direct relation to their choice of towing vehicles. For others, obviously not. It's interesting to see what people in different parts of the world think on these subjects. It's also interesting to see what counts as a credible source. Sometimes I think the internet has made it harder to separate fact from opinion. On the other hand, it sure makes it easier to find background information on most sources if you are willing to look.
Posted By: Dermot

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 10:30 PM

Quote
Is this thread an example of "road rage"?

Apparently, "global warming" should join religion and politics on the list of forbidden subjects among friends and relatives. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I think that it's just a bit of "End of Season Frustration" rearing its ugly head. I had my last 2 races and derigged for the Winter yesterday <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Bandit

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 10:36 PM

Pulsar 1.6 ltr Auto.. Works well for towing and the horse power is OK but it needs Man Power if it backs too far down the boat ramp where its good at building twin sand castles.
As for global warming the car does have Air Con... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Mary

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 11:34 PM

At the beginning of the movie "Borat," in a Kazahkstan village, an automobile is towed by a horse, one horsepower.

So, if all the vehicles in the world were towed by horses and we had 150-horsepower and 250-horsepower, would the damage to the atmosphere be worse from the generated methane from all those horses than from gas and diesel? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: gree2056

Re: What do you tow with - 11/13/06 11:51 PM

I have bad news for you, Horse power actually doesn't equal one horse. I learned about it in physics, it is something like 1 horsepower actually is something like 1/8 or a horse.
It is just a relative number, calculated by how much a horse could pull for 8 hours at a certain speed.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 12:50 AM

Quote
At the beginning of the movie "Borat," in a Kazahkstan village, an automobile is towed by a horse, one horsepower.

So, if all the vehicles in the world were towed by horses and we had 150-horsepower and 250-horsepower, would the damage to the atmosphere be worse from the generated methane from all those horses than from gas and diesel? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
As it turns out cow flatulence is a big contributor to global warming. On average, they produce 542 liters of methane per day.

See http://rucus.ru.ac.za/~wolfman/Essays/Cow.html
Posted By: PTP

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 01:43 AM

Read "State of Fear" by Crichton. Yes, he writes a lot of pulpy type stuff, but he researches the hell out of his books. He does a good job of summarizing the evidence about GW, etc.
Posted By: _flatlander_

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 02:32 AM

Quote
Quote
Is this thread an example of "road rage"?

Apparently, "global warming" should join religion and politics on the list of forbidden subjects among friends and relatives. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I think that it's just a bit of "End of Season Frustration" rearing its ugly head. I had my last 2 races and derigged for the Winter yesterday <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Ya, you know what? This time last year the water temperature was 15 degrees higher than it is this year and I for one am pissed!!!!

Global warming my a$$ <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: drbinkle

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 04:16 AM

Thanks for throwing this thread way off topic Tad. Some of us were actually interested in what people tow with. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Clayton

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 02:19 PM

[/quote]

Gas prices should gradually rise to 4-5$ a gallon. Everyone was worried that the economy would "collapse" when gas got above 3$ and it didn't.
Better a gradual rise then BLAM gas hits 7$ a gallon because we are in a battle with China for limited imports.
Remember when gas was getting really "expensive?" The oil companies made record profits. I would rather that be a tax than for the oil companies who are clearly price gouging. [/quote]

For the un-initiated... If a company makes a GP of 5% on $1M thats $50K if the same company sells $50M at the same profit margin 5% thats $2.5m the margin is the same. Is that price gouging? Obviously you don't run a business... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

What happens in the times when your total sales fall lower? Oh, wait, those people you gave breaks to will give you some extra money... right?

Clayton
Posted By: Clayton

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 02:26 PM

Quote
Why should we tow the boat we also can carry it with a car
Regards,
Hans


Now thats interesting! How do you get it up there??

Clayton
Posted By: Frozen

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 03:00 PM

Quote
Why should we tow the boat we also can carry it with a car
Regards,
Hans


Do you have a side view picture Hans? I carried my H14 on the roof of my Toyota Sienna but it was dissasembled.
Posted By: Frozen

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 03:16 PM

Quote

Knowing that we both are going to see large changes in our environment due to global heating and increasing amounts of Co2 in the atmosphere is not much fun. What you say sounds very much like the typical hardcore right-wing PR I see in american media daily

Either we come up with some new ways to fuel our cars, or transportation will become very expensive in a while. Methanole is one way around it, as is bio-oil. Here in scandinavia we have lots of woods, so they are researching ways to quickly produce methanole and ethanole from wood. This might be a good solution for a densely populated area with economic cars like scandinavia, but you in the U.S have a real problem coming with your car pool and mentality. Efficiency is good, both in cars and boats.


Rolf I remember seeing an article in a US based magazine (Mother Earth News) years ago about a guy who put a wood stove in the back of his pickup. The wood stove was damped down so it would smoulder. He then ran the smoke into his engine and voila wood running his truck.

I don't remember the details but apparantly if my memory serves me (it frequently doesn't) this idea was spawned in the Netherlands or Holland back sometime around WW2 probably due to oil shortages.

Not sure of details, however where there's smoke...... there's some American drivin down da 'ighway.... . <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Brings a whole new meaning to smokin along the highway... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Canadians also pay a high fuel tax. We haven't died of starvation yet. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Interestingly I was just in Atlanta GA last week (lovely spot, incredibly friendly people) and I was shocked that food in the grocery stores was pretty much the same price as we pay in Canada and yet in the winter our food comes from the US. In other words it is trucked to us a long way. Economics is not as simple as some would like to make it...
Posted By: Jake

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 03:20 PM

Quote


Rolf I remember seeing an article in a US based magazine (Mother Earth News) years ago about a guy who put a wood stove in the back of his pickup. The wood stove was damped down so it would smoulder. He then ran the smoke into his engine and voila wood running his truck.


I saw one of those on TV a couple of weeks ago - it wasn't even remotely reliable, could only get up to about 30 mph, and was getting about 2 miles to the lb of wood chips.
Posted By: Frozen

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 03:26 PM

Quote
Quote


Rolf I remember seeing an article in a US based magazine (Mother Earth News) years ago about a guy who put a wood stove in the back of his pickup. The wood stove was damped down so it would smoulder. He then ran the smoke into his engine and voila wood running his truck.


I saw one of those on TV a couple of weeks ago - it wasn't even remotely reliable, could only get up to about 30 mph, and was getting about 2 miles to the lb of wood chips.


Jake,
What kind of vehicle?
Posted By: WindyHillF20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 03:38 PM

Back on topic. I pulled my 16 around in the early 80's with a 1974 MG Midget. I'm not sure about the gas mileage but it burned a quart of oil every 100 miles or so. Great little car but hard to get in and out of, I'm 6'2". The Titan gets 18mpg whether towing or not. My work is construction related and a truck is necessary.
Posted By: Frozen

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 03:54 PM

Quote
Back on topic. I pulled my 16 around in the early 80's with a 1974 MG Midget. I'm not sure about the gas mileage but it burned a quart of oil every 100 miles or so. Great little car but hard to get in and out of, I'm 6'2". The Titan gets 18mpg whether towing or not. My work is construction related and a truck is necessary.


Where did you put the tow hitch? I tried to make something for my Miata but I ran out of time. Was thinking about attaching something to the spare tire in the trunk. I only have to tow my H14 about a mile.
Posted By: Jake

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 03:58 PM

I seem to recall that it was an isuzu trooper ... but it had an open bed...probably was something like a Geo Tracker or Amigo instead.
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 04:21 PM

Go Troopers! I love those ugly bastards!

Just heard on the XM radio that Ford is unveiling the F450. Bigger and badder than the F350.

dude on the radio went "OOOOOOHHHH RAH FORD!" at the end :P
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 04:35 PM

Quote
Interestingly I was just in Atlanta GA last week (lovely spot, incredibly friendly people) and I was shocked that food in the grocery stores was pretty much the same price as we pay in Canada and yet in the winter our food comes from the US. In other words it is trucked to us a long way. Economics is not as simple as some would like to make it...
If you want a food price shock come to Hawaii. We pay what's politely know as Island Tax on everything. Thank (insert your favorite deity here) for Costco!!
Posted By: WindyHillF20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 05:12 PM

It was welded to the frame and attached at the bumpers. This one had chrome half bumpers on each side of the license. I tore second gear out doing this. Didn't pull it far at one time 200 - 300 miles at most.
Posted By: _flatlander_

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 05:29 PM

Quote
Where did you put the tow hitch? I tried to make something for my Miata but I ran out of time. Was thinking about attaching something to the spare tire in the trunk. I only have to tow my H14 about a mile.


I took the spare tire out of my son's Hyundia Scoupe. Measured and cut two pieces of 7/8" x 1 5/8" metal framing to traverse this flat area fore and aft. Cut two more to match and then drilled holes and bolted these together sandwiching this rather flimsy floor pan in between. I then attached a 1 5/8" square piece to accept the smaller size receiver(class I/II). I drilled holes and through bolted in to the trunk, just to make sure. Also used 1 1/2" fender washers at all holes. Dabbed a little caulking at the holes. Had to cut a notch out of the rear bumper/pan. It works for him towing the 16 the four miles from the storage yard to the ramp, but remind him constantly to take it easy and don't go over 45. Tell him scary stories about trailers passing cars and how easily fiberglass turns to splinters.
Posted By: Mary

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 05:35 PM

I have an entry for the smallest car ever towing boats (although not a catamaran):

Back in the '70's, a friend of ours, Jim Hirtreiter, had one of the original Hondas that came to this country. It was about the size of a rollerskate (well, maybe 9 feet long). Jim and Rick White towed two Lasers behind that thing from Akron, Ohio to Wichita, Kansas to sail in the Laser Nationals.

Rick says it was probably pretty funny seeing them get in and out of the car, because Jim is 6'4" and Rick was 6'2". Sort of like one of those little cars at the circus where a bunch of clowns climb out of it.

ALSO, back in the early 1980's we had a Volkswagen diesel pickup truck with a cap on it for going to regattas (sleeping in the back). That got 60 mpg without a tow, and dropped down to 40 mpg towing a Hobie 18. Only problem was we couldn't get it into 4th gear when towing. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Frozen

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 05:44 PM

Quote
If you want a food price shock come to Hawaii. We pay what's politely know as Island Tax on everything. Thank (insert your favorite deity here) for Costco!!


In Canada we have a similar tax... called the GST or "Gouge 'n Screw Tax... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Clayton

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 06:01 PM

Things we did in the '80s to sail. A guy in our club towed his H16 to the beach one weekend hitched to his MAC truck (18 wheeler tractor). Talkin about overkill. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I use a 2005 F150 supercrew w/5.8 ltr V8 when I have to tow, of course my cat is a Stiletto 27 and the rig is aro 3000# loaded.

Clayton
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 06:31 PM

Quote
Quote
If you want a food price shock come to Hawaii. We pay what's politely know as Island Tax on everything. Thank (insert your favorite deity here) for Costco!!


In Canada we have a similar tax... called the GST or "Gouge 'n Screw Tax... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
The Island Tax is due primairly to transportation costs. The shipping companies have been sucking the islands dry for, well, forever.

On top of that we also have a General Excise Tax of 4%. It's used in place of a sales tax. On the surface this looks pretty good until you discover that every time goods change hands, manufacturer to wholesaler to retailer to consumer, the GET hits. To add insult to injury, Oahu County just increased theirs to 4.5% to pay for a transit system. As just about everything passes through Honolulu, the Neighbor Islands get to share in the cost of something we'll never use.

But hey, we live in Hawaii! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Frozen

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 07:14 PM

Quote


But hey, we live in Hawaii! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


You know I visited Hawaii years ago and when I got home a friend asked if I had applied for a job while there. I looked at him with a look of horror... I was havin so much fun windsurfing etc that I had not even thought of it. Every so often I think of that moment and a little tear forms.... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Keith

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 08:50 PM

I'll add further to my tow vehicle description from before. Yes, I tow with a 2000 Astro, but I bought that vehicle used for just that purpose (towing, loaded down road trips, getting large crap from Home Depot).

But I don't use it for commuting. For that I picked up a Mazda 3 5-door. In fact, another reason I got the Mazda was that I could carry all my sailing crap for the weekly racing that I used to drive my old van for, further reducing the need to drive the bigger vehicle. I don't even need to take out the child seat to do so. While the Mazda is not a mileage king, it averages around 30 mpg for the driving I do, has great utility, and is fun to drive. In other markets it is rated for towing, for some reason in the US it is not, however hitches are available and when it's out of warranty I'll probably get one. It's got enough power and brakes to tow a cat.

I can afford the gas of a larger car, but some reason adding dollars to somebody else's bottom line to drive to work and back isn't something I feel like doing. I'll spend my gas dollars somewhere else.

I like cars - I work on them, know about them, and am a card-carrying member of the SCCA. I'll have other cars that get crappy gas mileage and go too fast, but I won't waste them on the daily commute.

So, anyway, another option - a vehicle for towing, and a vehicle for commuting. Both don't have to be new with payments. Works well if you don't need the truck for work.

Taxes and gas - if I understand it right, the gas tax hasn't gone up in MD since '87. There is a shortage of money to work on road projects. Because everybody is paranoid about even hinting to raise taxes, they are coming up with creative ways to fund road improvements. The ideas are centered around toll roads with higher fees to access the extra lanes, with the control of the roads and toll collecting turned over to private companies (most of them offshore). I for one, would gladly pay more in gasoline taxes to avoid that.
Posted By: fin.

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 08:59 PM

Well said!
Posted By: Jake

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 09:01 PM

Bonnie and I have been eye-balling and planning on a Mazda3 hatchback in the near future. cool.
Posted By: Robi

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 09:33 PM

19 pages and still growing strong.
Posted By: Keith

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 09:54 PM

Here's mine. If you want a little more oomph using a little more gas (if you can keep your foot out of it) - check out the new MazdaSpeed 3.

Attached picture 90352-P4130077sm.jpg
Posted By: Will_R

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 10:02 PM

Quote
Just heard on the XM radio that Ford is unveiling the F450. Bigger and badder than the F350.

dude on the radio went "OOOOOOHHHH RAH FORD!" at the end :P


Hate to do this to you, but.... The 450-550's have been out for a couple of years. (They make a 650 and 750, but it's a medium duty truck) I saw one at a horse show a couple of months ago. Looked like a 350. Same engine and tranny, just a little heavier running gear. I didn't like Fords to start with, but that 6.0 TD was enough to confirm my next purchase as a D-max.

http://www.fordtrucksonline.com/new-ford-f550-truck-specs.htm
Posted By: Tornado

Re: What do you tow with - 11/14/06 11:33 PM

Do I win some sort of prize <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

[Linked Image]
Posted By: bvining

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 12:02 AM

Mike,
Hows that thing tow?

Was the hitch custom? or did you get a aftermarket hitch for the mini?

Bill
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 12:29 AM

Apparently this new F450 is being badged as a light duty truck along the lines of the 150, 250 or 350.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 12:39 AM

Quote
You know I visited Hawaii years ago and when I got home a friend asked if I had applied for a job while there. I looked at him with a look of horror... I was havin so much fun windsurfing etc that I had not even thought of it. Every so often I think of that moment and a little tear forms.... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
If you want to work in the construction trades or hospitality field them Hawaii wants you. The unemployment is about two percent. The employment section of the paper is huge for the area it serves. The down side is the cost of living is high. Primarily food and housing.

The price of buying a house or condo has stablized and is starting to drop. I'm buying a condo for my disabled son and was able to bid the price down $20K. The bozo selling agent actually said there was a flurry of activity and she was going to reject our offer. We didn't call back and she caved with an hour left on the offer. Apparently there was a late afternoon warming trend. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 01:16 AM

Quote
Do I win some sort of prize <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
You should! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: SteveT

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 02:57 AM

WillR's right. It's just the running gear and gear ratios that get beefed up/changed in the Ford "F" series. The key is the motor. If you're going to tow anything heavy on a regular basis, diesel is the only way to fly. As for pulling just a beach cat, you can do that with almost anything on four wheels if you stick it on a light enough trailer. However, once you start to push the engine, fuel mileage dives. I used to tow with a Ford Ranger (4-liter 6-cyl with a five-speed). In any kind of headwind, the mileage would drop to 12 or 13 mpg or lower and even in perfect conditions I never got better than 15. My F250 with a 6.0 liter diesel gets 15, or 16 with just the boat in almost any conditions and will get 20 or more on the highway bare-assed (the truck, not me). The Ranger only got 18 mpg on the highway. Plus, the power and wieght of the Diesel makes the boat feel like nothing.
Posted By: Tornado

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 04:36 AM

The Mini Cooper S is a great tow rig...I used to tow this setup with a Rabbit GTi...at ~115 hp, 1.8l (normally aspirated) and with softer suspension, the VW struggled but could do the job. The Mini has only 1.6l, but it's supercharger brings out 162 hp. The car also has a very stiff suspension, so the Mini's bow does not point to the sky! It can do 70-80 mph, even up steep inclines (if I shift down to 5th anyway).

Mike.

Quote
Mike,
Hows that thing tow?

Was the hitch custom? or did you get a aftermarket hitch for the mini?

Bill
Posted By: grob

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 07:24 AM

I can fit my entire 5m (16ft) Cat inside a car, in this image hulls are inside and rig is on the roof.

[Linked Image]
Before

[Linked Image]
After

for entire sequence see http://www.fourhulls.com/ and click on assembly

Gareth
Posted By: gree2056

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 07:41 AM

Okay, so that is a new idea, could something like this be used to get younger people who don't have room for a full cat into sailing. I mean, I am sure that you loose some performance but it looks like it could be fast and fun.
Posted By: grob

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 10:43 AM

Quote
Okay, so that is a new idea, could something like this be used to get younger people who don't have room for a full cat into sailing. I mean, I am sure that you loose some performance but it looks like it could be fast and fun.


Thats the intention, we have been developing it over the last 3 years, every year we say we will be ready to sell next year!

You are right in that you do lose some perfromance in the mid speed range (4-8 knots) due to increased wave drag, but we are working on that. One of the major benifits is the massivly increased for and aft (pitchpoll) stability, as you have so much volume in the corners. You can sit on the bows sailing downwind. So it makes it a very safe family boat.

Gareth
Posted By: fin.

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 12:02 PM

Something noteworthy for all you "gas hog" guys!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15715744/?GT1=8717 Note that the article doesn't mention the word "cheap"!

While I'm at it. It looks like the Tacoma is going away. I need something more fuel efficient for work and I'm not willing to keep two vehicles. So what do you guys suggest? Cheap, dependable, fuel efficient with light towing capacity. My first choice would be a Hummer, but. . . <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Clayton

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 01:50 PM

Quote
Do I win some sort of prize <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

[Linked Image]


Yep! I like those cars!

Clayton
Posted By: Eric Anderson

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 01:53 PM

I have been towing the last few years with a Subaru Forester. It has been running around 30 mpg when it is clean (i.e. no boat and roof racks removed) Mileage drops to around 24 towing an iceboat trailer and around 21-22 towing an A cat.

What I find most interesting is that just adding Thule roof racks to the cat costs about 2 mpg

I drive about 30,000 miles per year of which about 20,000 miles is traveling to sailing or iceboating events. The Subaru does a lot better on gas then the Toyota tundra it replaced

What was a real shocker was traveling to Europe last winter to go iceboating. Almost all of the hard core ice boaters drive diesel cars. I spent a week driving in a large diesel BMW hatchback~7 series equivalent. I figured out what we were getting in gas mileage after the trip. Overall it got around 50 mpg. About ½ the distance we drove we had 11 DN Iceboat masts strapped to the roof rack. Most of the driving took place between 90 and 150 mph depending on the country. The drag from the masts reduced our top speed from about 240 kph down to about 224 kph.
In contrast I rented a car to get back from Bremen to Frankfurt to go to the airport. It was a 3 series BMW hatchback (gas) with no roof racks. I burned 104 liters (~ 25 gallons) =160$ going 400 Kilometers ~250 miles. That car only went about 215 kph. (Piece of [censored])

My conclusions are the euro diesels are very efficient, quiet, accelerate well, and start just fine at ~ -15°C (the coldest it got in Sweden while we were there). I would think long and hard about getting a VW Passat when I need a new Car

Cheers,
Eric
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 02:03 PM

Quote
I would think long and hard about getting a VW Passat when I need a new Car


Ancedotal, I know, but my little sister has a 2005 VW Jetta, and its a giant POS.

As for efficency, the Diesel Golf can get 72mpg. Thats better than most hybrids. Thankfully the US has updated their diesel laws to allow these kinds of cars into the country soon.

(something about the sulfur content in the US Diesel wouldn't work on these cars)
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 02:09 PM

You're right. US now requires highway cars/trucks to use low sulfur diesel. Kind of like when they switched to unleaded gas. The cars can use low-sulfur, but it does cause increased engine wear from what I understand.

I am not as concerned with engine size as I am for brake and control issues. Who cares if I get 0-60mph in two days as long as I can stop in time to avoid someone, or control the trailer in a crosswind on a wet road. Unfortunately, good braking and steering usually are combined with a big engine (gas hog)

Didn't the old VW Rabbit diesel get about 45 mpg? I drove one a few times in the late 80's and it was a no-frills little zippy car. Of course, this was compared to my "Big Daddy Mac" Chevy Chevette.... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Frozen

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 02:15 PM

Quote
I can fit my entire 5m (16ft) Cat inside a car, in this image hulls are inside and rig is on the roof.


Do the sails move in unison? They look like windsurfer rigs.
Posted By: Keith

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 02:23 PM

Quote
Quote
I would think long and hard about getting a VW Passat when I need a new Car


Ancedotal, I know, but my little sister has a 2005 VW Jetta, and its a giant POS.

As for efficency, the Diesel Golf can get 72mpg. Thats better than most hybrids. Thankfully the US has updated their diesel laws to allow these kinds of cars into the country soon.

(something about the sulfur content in the US Diesel wouldn't work on these cars)


US emission standards require a cleaner diesel formulation and cleaner running engines. Car companies are working on this, as are the oil companies. Some of the newer formulations for diesel actually start with natural gas instead of oil.

The potential for diesel engines is high (witness Audi at LeMans), and diesel/electric hybrids are another great thing on the horizon.

Another problem for diesel passenger cars in America is that a lot of people remember the absolute crap that Detroit put out in the 70's for diesel passenger cars. Fortunately those memories are starting to fade.
Posted By: Frozen

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 02:47 PM

Eric

I had a Diesel Rabbit back in 1978 when they first came out in Canada. It got around 60 mpg <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> (Imperial gallon which is about 20% bigger than an American Gallon)

It was a dog on the highway <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> especially when it had a few miles on it. It would smoke like crazy <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> when accelerating to pass on the highway. I cannot imagine getting it up to even 150 KPH (93 mph)

Had a few wierd problems. When condensation formed on the windows it would drip down to the fuse panel and eventually it would corrode the steel fuse posts and then the corrosion would run and short out the next fuse item which would create interesting "ghost in the Machine" sort of stuff. You'd be driving along when suddenly the horn would blast for awhile and then the wipers would dance for awhile. Apparently some people had the starter operate while the car was parked in gear with disasterous results.

Then one day I had happen what I had read about. I was cruising down the highway when it started to accelerate on it's own. The family was aboard and I was confused about what was happening. I took my foot off of the pedal but it was on auto-accelerate. I then put the brake on but it was determined to accelerate to destruction and I had to press very firmly on the brake to get it to stop. Had I not done this I would have had a diesel bomb. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

You see what was happening was that the extremely high compression ratio in the engine (and other reasons) had damaged the rings. This allowed the pressure from combustion to blow by and theoretically this should vent out the crankcase vent to the atmosphere. But the crankcase was vented to the intake to keep emissions down and when you got the right conditions the frothing oil in the crankcase vented out the crank vent into the engine. So now since diesels run on oil, it didn't need the accelerator to get fuel. Voila, Rabbit Cleared for Take off.. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

They no doubt fixed the fuse problems as they probably got sued, but the other problem I have not heard of since.
Posted By: _flatlander_

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 02:54 PM

Quote
Didn't the old VW Rabbit diesel get about 45 mpg? I drove one a few times in the late 80's and it was a no-frills little zippy car. Of course, this was compared to my "Big Daddy Mac" Chevy Chevette.... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


A co-worker of mine owned a 1979 model Rabbit diesel. He commuted 52 miles, each way, and used exactly 2 gallons per day. He was by no means a lead foot.

It's most interesting that fuel efficiency of vehicles has been proven all over the world for 60 years (including manufacturers familiar to US such as Ford & GM) and only after government regulations has mileage of the US models changed.
Posted By: PTP

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 02:54 PM

Quote
Eric

I had a Diesel Rabbit back in 1978 when they first came out in Canada. It got around 60 mpg <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> (Imperial gallon which is about 20% bigger than an American Gallon)

It was a dog on the highway <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> especially when it had a few miles on it. It would smoke like crazy <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> when accelerating to pass on the highway. I cannot imagine getting it up to even 150 KPH (93 mph)

Had a few wierd problems. When condensation formed on the windows it would drip down to the fuse panel and eventually it would corrode the steel fuse posts and then the corrosion would run and short out the next fuse item which would create interesting "ghost in the Machine" sort of stuff. You'd be driving along when suddenly the horn would blast for awhile and then the wipers would dance for awhile. Apparently some people had the starter operate while the car was parked in gear with disasterous results.

Then one day I had happen what I had read about. I was cruising down the highway when it started to accelerate on it's own. The family was aboard and I was confused about what was happening. I took my foot off of the pedal but it was on auto-accelerate. I then put the brake on but it was determined to accelerate to destruction and I had to press very firmly on the brake to get it to stop. Had I not done this I would have had a diesel bomb. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

You see what was happening was that the extremely high compression ratio in the engine (and other reasons) had damaged the rings. This allowed the pressure from combustion to blow by and theoretically this should vent out the crankcase vent to the atmosphere. But the crankcase was vented to the intake to keep emissions down and when you got the right conditions the frothing oil in the crankcase vented out the crank vent into the engine. So now since diesels run on oil, it didn't need the accelerator to get fuel. Voila, Rabbit Cleared for Take off.. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

They no doubt fixed the fuse problems as they probably got sued, but the other problem I have not heard of since.

I learned about that problem figuring out the diesel engine in my old Catalina 27. Supposedly the only way to stop the engine when it runs away like that is to clog the air intake. Never did "run away" though...
Posted By: Jake

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 03:38 PM

Quote
It's most interesting that fuel efficiency of vehicles has been proven all over the world for 60 years (including manufacturers familiar to US such as Ford & GM) and only after government regulations has mileage of the US models changed.


But it really hasn't. They're still building the same cars and the domestic manufacturers openly admit that they failed to recognize the demand for smaller, more fuel efficient, cars and they really don't have any attractive models in this area. There are really few attractive options if you want a car that can do better than 40mpg. Even the available hybrid's payback is not justifiable for the upcharge vs. the fuel savings.
Posted By: fin.

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 03:56 PM

Quote
Quote
It's most interesting that fuel efficiency of vehicles has been proven all over the world for 60 years (including manufacturers familiar to US such as Ford & GM) and only after government regulations has mileage of the US models changed.


But it really hasn't. They're still building the same cars and the domestic manufacturers openly admit that they failed to recognize the demand for smaller, more fuel efficient, cars and they really don't have any attractive models in this area. There are really few attractive options if you want a car that can do better than 40mpg. Even the available hybrid's payback is not justifiable for the upcharge vs. the fuel savings.


I would guess that is because it is cheaper to add "assumed" value to their products through the power of advertising than by R&D. How many Ford, Chevy and Chrysler commercials do you see compared to Honda and Toyota?

There is a reason car companies spend so much money on advertising.
Posted By: jbecker

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 04:09 PM

Quote
Something noteworthy for all you "gas hog" guys!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15715744/?GT1=8717 Note that the article doesn't mention the word "cheap"!


Interesting article. While debunking peak oil they claim that oil production will peak in 20-25 years! Seems like the only difference between the authors and the strawman theory that they are debunking is the date of the peak. Another look at the CERA study: Congressional peak oil caucus responds to CERA study

Smaller vehicles do just fine towing beach cats. I have had no trouble with crosswinds or braking with my old Subaru wagon. The four wheel drive helps a bunch in marginal conditions, and I tend to run wider tires than stock which also helps. You lose more in highway mileage than a big vehicle because the boat sticks out into the airstream more. With a big truck, the boat is mostly in the wind shadow of the truck.
Posted By: SteveT

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 04:13 PM

Quote
Even the available hybrid's payback is not justifiable for the upcharge vs. the fuel savings.


And you can't tow with them without killing the mileage. I'm looking forward to the day that smaller diesel trucks are available in the U.S. The better torque from the diesel and increased overall performance from turbo makes them an excellent overall choice. In addition, bio-diesel fuels are a great option as an interim alternative to gas while the world comes up with something even better. I've burned bio-diesel in my truck and felt no noticable change in performance and it even smells a little better.
Posted By: grob

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 04:49 PM

Quote
I've burned bio-diesel in my truck and felt no noticable change in performance and it even smells a little better.


mmm smells like chips <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />, Here in the UK many people illegelly run there diesel cars on chip fat bought from the local supermarket, this "fuel" does not suffer from the high tax associated with the stuff that comes from the pumps. This has become such a problem that supermarkets were asked to report people buying large quantities of cooking oil.

Quote
Do the sails move in unison? They look like windsurfer rigs.


Yes they are windsurfing sails and they can move indepentantly.

Gareth
Posted By: Mary

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 04:49 PM

This is sort of the opposite of towing behind a small car where the hulls stick out into the airstream behind the small vehicle. But possibly the end result is the same. And I think it is relevant to the topic.

I think I mentioned this a long time ago on a similar thread about towing, but here goes again.

Rick and I have towed many thousands of miles using a motorhome -- all over the United States, Mexico and Canada.

Towing behind motorhomes can be a big problem because of all the turbulence coming off the flat back of the motorhome. We have so far broken two trailer tongues towing cats behind a motorhome. In both cases the trailers had long, straight tongues without triangulated stiffening arms, and I think this is an important factor.

The turbulence behind the motorhome would cause the trailer to oscillate back and forth and eventually break the tongue.

The scary thing about it is that the tongue breaks behind where the chains hold the trailer to the vehicle. So when the tongue breaks, the trailer is on its own.

That's why I am thinking that maybe those "Airtabs" would work on the back of a motorhome to decrease the turbulence for the trailer.
Posted By: grob

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 04:53 PM

Although many people illegelly run there diesel cars on chip fat bought from the local supermarket,I don't advocate this on modern diesel cars as it does the fuel system no good at all.

Gareth
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 05:05 PM

Quote
Towing behind motorhomes can be a big problem because of all the turbulence coming off the flat back of the motorhome. We have so far broken two trailer tongues towing cats behind a motorhome. In both cases the trailers had long, straight tongues without triangulated stiffening arms, and I think this is an important factor.

The turbulence behind the motorhme would cause the trailer to oscillate back and forth and eventually break the tongue.

The scary thing about it is that the tongue breaks behind where the chains hold the trailer to the vehicle. So when the tongue breaks, the trailer is on its own.

That's why I am thinking that maybe those "Airtabs" would work on the back of a motorhome to decrease the turbulence for the trailer.
Turbulence may be only part of the problem. You should also look at weight distribution on the trailers. Try moving the center of gravity forward or backwards to see if the oscillations change in frequency or stop. You may also want to look at moving the axle on the trailer.

If you do decide to modify the air flow you may want to consider a solid mud flap type panel or even one of those broom things that extend across the back of the RV below the rear bumper. That should reduce or eliminate air coming up off the rear of the RV and lifting the trailer.
Posted By: Mary

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 05:31 PM

Sorry. I did not want to hijack this thread, because it is not about trailering; it is about what vehicle you tow with. I was just interjecting the motorhome into it as a tow vehicle and some of the safety problems related to towing with a motorhome.
Posted By: Banzilla

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 05:34 PM

Quote
Sorry. I did not want to hijack this thread, because it is not about trailering; it is about what vehicle you tow with. I was just interjecting the motorhome into it as a tow vehicle and some of the safety problems related to towing with a motorhome.


Strange, I thought it was about global oohh wait, never mind.
Posted By: Mary

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 05:46 PM

Okay, but nobody has yet talked about motorhomes, and I know lots of sailors use them for towing their boats to regattas.
Posted By: hobienick

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 05:53 PM

When looking for a tow vehicle, as mentioned by other, small cars are fine for beach cats. Major things to consider are the maximum GVW for the car and manual vs. auto tranny.

The GVW will indicate the ability of the car to stop the weight of itself and the trailer. A 5 passenger car full of people and baggage has to stop about the same weight as a 5 passenger car with only the driver and a medium sized beach cat.

Transmissions. I like manuals on cars for towing as I do not worry about overheating them as much as I would with an auto. With the auto you are constantly demanding more power for the extra weight which heats up the oil faster. And, you are probably going to be shifting gears quite often which wears out the tranny much faster. You also have more positive control with the manual.

Just my 2 cents.
Posted By: Mary

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 06:25 PM

I don't trust automatic transmissions. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: mbounds

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 06:25 PM

Mary - the trailer occilations behind the motor home are caused by vortex shedding in the slipstream behind the motorhome.

A cool movie of the flow behind a square body (=motorhome) can be found here.

Aluminum trailers are particularly susceptible because, in addition to being light, they are flexible. When the tongue flexes too much, too many times, it breaks from fatigue.

The cure is to make the tongue stiffer. Trailex has done this over the years, but I attach my sailbox to the toungue, making it a structual part of the trailer to help stiffen it up.
Posted By: Mary

Re: What do you tow with - 11/15/06 06:34 PM

Quote
Mary - the trailer occilations behind the motor home are caused by vortex shedding in the slipstream behind the motorhome.

A cool movie of the flow behind a square body (=motorhome) can be found here.

Aluminum trailers are particularly susceptible because, in addition to being light, they are flexible. When the tongue flexes too much, too many times, it breaks from fatigue.

The cure is to make the tongue stiffer. Trailex has done this over the years, but I attach my sailbox to the tougue, making it a structual part of the trailer to help stiffen it up.


I guess you are saying what I was saying, except you said it in a lot fewer words. Thanks.
Posted By: arbo06

Re: What do you tow with - 11/16/06 12:29 AM

I'm saving up my money for one of these bad boyz.....

Attached picture 90551-584B_R.jpg
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: What do you tow with - 11/16/06 01:59 AM

When we lived on the Mainland my wife drove Volvo V70 T5. Surprisingly, it turned out to be a hot rod that cruised at 100 MPH+, handled great and, with the optional third seat, carried seven people. I used it occasionally to tow the boat to one-day events.

I was working on the truck one day and needed some parts so I took her car. The dog wanted to go so I put him in the back seat. At the first stop sign I put my foot into it like I did towing the boat and the result was…

Attached picture 90560-Fast.jpg
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: What do you tow with - 11/16/06 08:16 AM

Quote
When we lived on the Mainland my wife drove Volvo V70 T5. Surprisingly, it turned out to be a hot rod that cruised at 100 MPH+, handled great and, with the optional third seat, carried seven people. I used it occasionally to tow the boat to one-day events.

I was working on the truck one day and needed some parts so I took her car. The dog wanted to go so I put him in the back seat. At the first stop sign I put my foot into it like I did towing the boat and the result was…


LOL

I'd like an Audi RS4 Avant for towing <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: bengtos

Re: What do you tow with - 11/16/06 09:26 AM

In the mid 90's I participated in a multi-class European championship in Copenhagen with my then new H17 cat. The racing was superb with over 200 boats (H16 class divided into Gold, Silver and Bronze fleet). I learnt a lot from the H17 experts and veterans like the 60+ gentleman from Germany, who towed his H17 behind his Porsche 911. The trailer was super-low with wide tyres and faired-in boxes for supply of German wurst and Mosel wine. He told me he had got fed up with slow tow-cars and now wanted to travel in the fast lane on the autobahn. He could easily cruise at about 100 mph with more passing power to go. Trailer with boat stable at all speeds, he said....

Myself? - I pull my little Wave behind my 55 hp Nissan Micra 1.0 on a flatbed U-haul trailer if needed. Regrettably the authorities back home do not allow me to tow anything with my Porsche Boxster.

Wavebengtos
Posted By: fin.

Re: What do you tow with - 11/16/06 10:09 AM

Quote
Quote
Something noteworthy for all you "gas hog" guys!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15715744/?GT1=8717 Note that the article doesn't mention the word "cheap"!


Interesting article. While debunking peak oil they claim that oil production will peak in 20-25 years! Seems like the only difference between the authors and the strawman theory that they are debunking is the date of the peak. Another look at the CERA study: Congressional peak oil caucus responds to CERA study

Smaller vehicles do just fine towing beach cats. I have had no trouble with crosswinds or braking with my old Subaru wagon. The four wheel drive helps a bunch in marginal conditions, and I tend to run wider tires than stock which also helps. You lose more in highway mileage than a big vehicle because the boat sticks out into the airstream more. With a big truck, the boat is mostly in the wind shadow of the truck.


Congressional peak oil caucus responds to CERA study, the following is from this article:
Congressman Udall said, "CERA's report is one of the most optimistic predictions for the peak in global oil production to date, and it still underscores the need to address this problem immediately. Whether it is Peak Oil, global warming, or the fact that some of the money we send overseas to support our oil addiction comes back to us in the form of terrorism, the U.S. cannot wait any longer to develop sensible and sustainable alternatives to oil."

Congressman Bartlett added, "The February 2005 'Hirsch' report by the U.S. Department of Energy and a September 2005 report by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers both note that it would take a minimum of 20 years to avoid devastating consequences from peak oil. The CERA report supports the urgency and necessity for the U.S. government to adopt a crash mitigation program. A crash program will need the total participation of the American public like we had with WWII Victory Gardens, the technological focus of the Apollo Moon program and the urgency of the Manhattan project."

"I look forward to two forthcoming reports about peak oil to move this policy debate forward," said Congressman Bartlett. "A report that I requested from the Government Accountability Office (GAO) is expected in early 2007."

It's later than you think! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Clayton

Re: What do you tow with - 11/16/06 11:51 AM

...and you can tow an A-cat with that!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Clayton
Posted By: pdwarren

Re: What do you tow with - 11/16/06 12:36 PM

Quote

I'd like an Audi RS4 Avant for towing <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Me too, but you can't put a towing hitch on any of the RS models <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Paul
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: What do you tow with - 11/16/06 01:08 PM

Quote
Quote

I'd like an Audi RS4 Avant for towing <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Me too, but you can't put a towing hitch on any of the RS models <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Paul


Feck, that's silly !

Just have to use a Veyron instead then <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Suppose it would have to be a V70T5R then, but still not really fast enough....
Posted By: pdwarren

Re: What do you tow with - 11/16/06 01:25 PM

Quote

Just have to use a Veyron instead then <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Ah, now you're talking sensible tow vehicles <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Quote

Suppose it would have to be a V70T5R then, but still not really fast enough....


BMW may have an answer: http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphotos.cf...ring-spy-photos

That might be quick enough.

Paul
Posted By: fin.

Re: What do you tow with - 11/16/06 01:43 PM

Ok! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Enough already!! Anything under $20k suitable??
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: What do you tow with - 11/16/06 02:02 PM

Quote
Quote

Just have to use a Veyron instead then <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Ah, now you're talking sensible tow vehicles <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Quote

Suppose it would have to be a V70T5R then, but still not really fast enough....


BMW may have an answer: http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphotos.cf...ring-spy-photos

That might be quick enough.

Paul


Umm, might be nice. But I don't really do BMW.

Now the Lagacy 3.0R type B would be cheaper.
Posted By: pdwarren

Re: What do you tow with - 11/16/06 02:36 PM

Quote

Umm, might be nice. But I don't really do BMW.


Oh, it really doesn't take that long to forget how to use the indicators <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Paul
Posted By: blockp

Re: What do you tow with - 11/16/06 02:49 PM

Quote

I'd like an Audi RS4 Avant for towing <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Now you're talking my language <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: What do you tow with - 11/16/06 02:53 PM

Quote
Quote

Umm, might be nice. But I don't really do BMW.


Oh, it really doesn't take that long to forget how to use the indicators <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Paul


[Linked Image]
Posted By: Robi

Re: What do you tow with - 11/16/06 02:58 PM

25 pages and growing! longest thread in catsailor history?

Did you all know that once the Veyron reaches its top speed of 256mph it will run out of fuel in 12minutes! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Keith

Re: What do you tow with - 11/16/06 03:49 PM

Quote
Do I win some sort of prize <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

[Linked Image]


I'd personally issue a prize if you have a follow-up pic showing the Tornado pulling the Mini on floating trailer while under sail!
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: What do you tow with - 11/16/06 04:40 PM

Quote
Did you all know that once the Veyron reaches its top speed of 256mph it will run out of fuel in 12minutes! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />


That would be the best 50 miles ever!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Robi

Re: What do you tow with - 11/16/06 04:47 PM

Quote
Quote
Did you all know that once the Veyron reaches its top speed of 256mph it will run out of fuel in 12minutes! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />


That would be the best 50 miles ever!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
And its only around 48" tall. CRAZY! Quad turbo 16 cylinder <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> 1000+ HP <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> All wheel drive! Air to water intercooled <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Yeah its a bad butt car! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: _flatlander_

Re: What do you tow with - 11/16/06 05:02 PM

I'll show my age, my ultimate choice of towing sports car...with 430bhp
[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: What do you tow with - 11/16/06 05:04 PM

Quote
And its only around 48" tall. CRAZY! Quad turbo 16 cylinder <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> 1000+ HP <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> All wheel drive! Air to water intercooled <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Yeah its a bad butt car! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />


And all for only $1.2 million. At top speed here on Maui I'd run out of island before I ran out of gas. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: NCSUtrey

Re: What do you tow with - 11/16/06 06:30 PM

But you'd never run out of badass points.
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: What do you tow with - 11/16/06 06:38 PM

Quote
Quote
Quote
Did you all know that once the Veyron reaches its top speed of 256mph it will run out of fuel in 12minutes! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />


That would be the best 50 miles ever!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
And its only around 48" tall. CRAZY! Quad turbo 16 cylinder <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> 1000+ HP <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> All wheel drive! Air to water intercooled <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Yeah its a bad butt car! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />


I did know about that. Makes my 8MPG at full chat sound frugal ! Might have to find a race track to see if I could average 8mpg for a full tank !
Posted By: Tornado

Re: What do you tow with - 11/17/06 05:52 PM

Quote
Quote
Do I win some sort of prize <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

[Linked Image]


I'd personally issue a prize if you have a follow-up pic showing the Tornado pulling the Mini on floating trailer while under sail!


I'll need some time to work that out...

Mike.
Posted By: Stuart_Douglas

Re: What do you tow with - 11/17/06 06:53 PM

Nice discussion on global petro-politics, er...I mean towing. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'll go on record as siding with those that think gasoline is under-priced in the US (given the negative societal impacts from it's mass use that don't get factored into it's price). I look at what's happening with cigarette smoking here as a sign of things to come...people are wising up to the fact that there's a huge burden placed on society from it, the cost of which is being put back into the product via increased taxes. The US will come around. Now that "normal" means $2+/gal., dealers can't move large trucks/SUVs to anyone but those that truly need them or can afford not to care. The US auto industry is hurting because most of it's recent sales revenue has come from truck/SUV sales. Change will happen, we'll all become more responsible one way or another. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As for towing, I've been driving Subaru's since the '80's (GL, Legacy, Impreza). They've all towed the Sunfish we just sold without issue, and I expect the same for the cat we'll be getting this winter/spring. You take a hit on the full-time AWD in terms of MPG, but they're not horrible, and they're as reliable as the work-day is long. Now that our daughter's graduated from college, we're once more considering a new car...Forester most likely, maybe an Outback for the H6.
Posted By: bvining

Re: What do you tow with - 11/17/06 07:15 PM

Quote
But you'd never run out of badass points.


yes!!!!!!!
Posted By: Banzilla

Re: What do you tow with - 11/17/06 07:28 PM

don't know how true this is, but I understand that our (US) gasoline has a considerably lower octain than that of other countries, if this is true, does that not play into the cost per gallon?

And now back to our regularly scheduled program.
Posted By: Rhino1302

Re: What do you tow with - 11/17/06 08:34 PM

Octane in the US and Canada is measured differently then the rest of the world. 87 Octane in the US equates to somewhere around 92 in Europe.
Posted By: hobienick

Re: What do you tow with - 11/17/06 08:39 PM

So what is 90 octane US equal to in Europe?
Posted By: Rhino1302

Re: What do you tow with - 11/17/06 08:53 PM

There's about a 5 point difference. Most US pumps will say something like "(R+M)/2 Method". The rest of the world just uses R. M is a more strenuous test, usually is about 10 points lower than R, so the average is about 5 points less. So 90 in the US would be sold as ~95 everywhere else. It's not a direct match though.
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: What do you tow with - 11/17/06 10:11 PM

Quote
Octane in the US and Canada is measured differently then the rest of the world. 87 Octane in the US equates to somewhere around 92 in Europe.


Feck, what do you guys run Turbo cars on !

I'm always looking for 98+ RON.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: What do you tow with - 11/18/06 01:18 AM

Does anyone remember Chevron Custom Supreme? 120 Octane for $.31 a gallon. Those were the really good old days! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Jake

Re: What do you tow with - 11/18/06 01:27 PM

there is a common misnomer that higher octane = higher performance or is somehow a 'cleaner' fuel. If your engine was designed to run a high octane fuel then you should. However, if your engine was designed to run a minimum of 87 octane, you'll not see much difference going to a higher 95 or even 120 (you could actually see a decrease in performance).

There's a point at which under so much heat and pressure inside an engine the fuel vapor will ignite without the presence of a spark (like in a diesel engine). Higher octane fuels auto-ignite at higher pressure and temperature levels than lower octane fuels allowing engine designers to design in higher compression ratios (or use turbos and superchargers). Long piston strokes, turbos, or superchargers cram more fuel/air into an engine resulting in higher compression and additional power but require a higher octane fuel to prevent the fuel vapor from igniting before th e spark plug lights it up resulting in "knock" - a dangerous condition that can do substantial damage inside the engine if left unchecked (most modern cars have knock-sensors that detect this condition and will try to compensate by adjusting the air/fuel ratio).
Posted By: Timbo

Re: What do you tow with - 11/18/06 02:33 PM

But...if you really want to run 100 octane low lead, go to your nearest small airport and buy it at the pumps there, and bring your wallet, it's about $3.50 a gallon these days.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: What do you tow with - 11/18/06 03:27 PM

Quote
there is a common misnomer that higher octane = higher performance or is somehow a 'cleaner' fuel. If your engine was designed to run a high octane fuel then you should. However, if your engine was designed to run a minimum of 87 octane, you'll not see much difference going to a higher 95 or even 120 (you could actually see a decrease in performance).

There's a point at which under so much heat and pressure inside an engine the fuel vapor will ignite without the presence of a spark (like in a diesel engine). Higher octane fuels auto-ignite at higher pressure and temperature levels than lower octane fuels allowing engine designers to design in higher compression ratios (or use turbos and superchargers). Long piston strokes, turbos, or superchargers cram more fuel/air into an engine resulting in higher compression and additional power but require a higher octane fuel to prevent the fuel vapor from igniting before th e spark plug lights it up resulting in "knock" - a dangerous condition that can do substantial damage inside the engine if left unchecked (most modern cars have knock-sensors that detect this condition and will try to compensate by adjusting the air/fuel ratio).
I ran the Custom Supreme in a '63 Ford 427 with 13.5 to 1 compression. You really could see the gas gauge move. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: mayhem

Re: What do you tow with - 11/19/06 03:45 PM

When I was in the US, I towed my N60 with a Nisan Sentra. Did fine up to 60mph (100Km/h), but milage when from 40mpg to 20mpg and windage from trucks meant I could never pass anything at any speed. As important as the car, is the trailer-- get a good quality one, preferably light-- I am in love with Trailex. It will compensate for 30+hp and an extra 800lbs (400kg) of car size.

Eric mentioned European diesels. I now now with a Mazda6 wagon. 140-160km (90-100mph) with a well strapped down A-cat is no problem. Fuel consumption is still above 25mpg even at that speed. 2/3 of all European cars sold are now diesels. They get 30% better mileage, just as quiet (except perhaps a slight difference at idle), start just as easy; however, they have so much more torque that you never need to shift to stay in the power. This is not the same diesel technology offered in VWs in the USA or found in even the newest Dodge-Cummings. As I understand the problem was sulfer found in US Diesel fuel-- this would destroy the modern Euro direct injection diesels. The result, USA diesels had to use only the old technology. About 1 year ago, the US forced the fuel companies to remove this sulfer-- now you should be starting to get them. I highly recommend trying one when they start showing up in dealers.

Matt
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: What do you tow with - 11/19/06 07:12 PM

Some "transportation" rigs from our Tornado brothers in Siberia.

http://www.tornado-nsk.ru/showpic.php?folder=2006/part3/big&id=71.jpg
http://www.tornado-nsk.ru/img/2005/anapa/a2.jpg (Yes, that is a 165Kg Tornado on the roof)

I think they got the right idea, just get there and sail what you got <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: hobiegary

Re: What do you tow with - 11/20/06 05:01 AM

Currently I tow the Mystere 6.0 on it's steel trailer with a 2005 Toyota Corolla that drives from the front with a 1.8 liter engine. Previously I used a 1998 Subaru Legacy L that had an All Wheel Drive 2.2 liter engine.

While I do miss the traction of the AWD car, the 1.8 liter Toyota is far more powerful, has way better fuel economy, and has far less mechanical problems than did the Subaru.

Before the Legacy, I owned another Legacy. Before that I had a 1.8 liter turbo charged Subaru GL wagon. Nothing has been as good as the Toyota for towing.

When the Toyota was new, the cheap tires had trouble on wet surfaces. New tires have taken care of that problem.

I'll miss my AWD when I need to go snow skiing. 'Till then, I have enjoyed the trouble free service of the Toyota.

GARY
(solved the infamous P.O.S. Subaru Hesitation problem)
Posted By: Jake

Re: What do you tow with - 11/21/06 09:02 PM

Didn't end up with a Mazda 3...and it's probably unlikely that I'll be towing anything with it, but here's our new regatta-mobile when sailing on OPBs. Would have loved to have found one with a TDI engine - but Bonnie wasn't that keen on it and they are pretty scarce used. As it is, 24City / 30 Hwy is reasonable for this 2L gas engine and while it's built for smaller people (like we are), it's got plenty of room for gear and stuff.

[Linked Image]

Attached picture 91032-WVWSK61J73W314355-3.jpg
Posted By: fin.

Re: What do you tow with - 11/21/06 09:29 PM

Nice ride!
Posted By: Dlennard

Re: What do you tow with - 11/21/06 09:38 PM

Jake

It has already started, you just got married about a week ago and now you are having to buy a new car to go to regattas.
Posted By: Scubajeep

Re: What do you tow with - 11/21/06 09:40 PM

My tow vehicle is a 1992 Jeep Wrangler, a few mods, 145,000 miles. A little bad on the MPG and a little loud... But I can put the cat right on the beach where other vehicles have to drop it off at the road.

[img][image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/Scubajeep/Gulf%20Shores%20May%202004/IMG020.jpg[/img][/image]
Posted By: Jake

Re: What do you tow with - 11/22/06 02:10 AM

Quote
Jake

It has already started, you just got married about a week ago and now you are having to buy a new car to go to regattas.


Yeah, I know. Married two weeks and already I've sold two project-cars, my pristine classic sports car is on the 'for sale' block, and I'm building a storage building so we can reduce ourselves to a truck and a car and for the first time in about 7 years actually pull through both sides of our pull-through carport (this has actually been in motion for about a year). The good news is that I still have all the regattas on the schedule for next year, three boats (soon to be four temporarily), and an RV in the backyard.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: What do you tow with - 11/22/06 05:09 PM

So why the yard sale on cars? Are boats next?
Posted By: Keith

Re: What do you tow with - 11/22/06 06:52 PM

Quote
Quote
Jake

It has already started, you just got married about a week ago and now you are having to buy a new car to go to regattas.


Yeah, I know. Married two weeks and already I've sold two project-cars, my pristine classic sports car is on the 'for sale' block, and I'm building a storage building so we can reduce ourselves to a truck and a car and for the first time in about 7 years actually pull through both sides of our pull-through carport (this has actually been in motion for about a year). The good news is that I still have all the regattas on the schedule for next year, three boats (soon to be four temporarily), and an RV in the backyard.


Tell us about the pristine classic sports car...
Posted By: Jake

Re: What do you tow with - 11/22/06 07:56 PM

It's a '85 RX7 GSL-SE. This was the last year of this body style and the GSL-SE was only offered in the RX7 line for two years - '84 and '85. There aren't many of them still around. It was the first model that Mazda put the new bigger 13B rotary engine in, had four wheel disk brakes, and came equipped with a posi-track rear end. For the fans of the 1st generation Mazda RX7, this is the car to have. This one happens to be a particularly exceptional specimen.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Keith

Re: What do you tow with - 11/22/06 08:34 PM

Recognize it, those were nice cars, yours is particularly nice. Don't sell it. But that's just me...
Posted By: Brian_Mc

Re: What do you tow with - 11/23/06 03:57 AM

Jake, All these years I've thought you and Bonnie were already married! Congrats to you lad! The car looks very much like the one my friend bought. His is that ugly gold/bronze. I like the white better. I don't know if his is quite the same. I'll have to ask again. I had a '67 Pontiac Lemans with a 3 spd Hurst, and positrac. I was amazed driving it with bald tires in the snow. I got where I wanted to go! What exactly is positrac? All the best to you and the lovely Tybee reporter. Brian
Posted By: hobienick

Re: What do you tow with - 11/27/06 05:48 PM

Short answer about positrac... It is a limited slip differential on the rear wheels. On regular rear wheel drive cars the wheel with the least amount of resistance gets all of the power. If you are watching a car on a slick road you will notice that one only one tire breaks loose. With positrac both rear tires would break loose.
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/27/06 06:19 PM

how many hampster-power is that good for Jake? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Keith

Re: What do you tow with - 11/27/06 06:34 PM

Quote
how many hampster-power is that good for Jake? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


Are you talking standard or metric hampsters?
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 11/27/06 06:42 PM

The Queen's Imperial English, as if there's anything else :P
Posted By: Jake

Re: What do you tow with - 11/27/06 08:19 PM

Quote
how many hampster-power is that good for Jake? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


It's good for something like 160 high-reving hamsters but the car is very light.


Posi-trac rear ends actually have a clutch in them that when one wheel spins considerably faster than the other, it engages power to both rear wheels. Some posi rear ends have a fluid viscosity systems to transfer the power.
Posted By: hobiegary

Re: What do you tow with - 11/29/06 06:11 PM

She's beautiful Jake! "particularly exceptional" says it best.

GARY
Posted By: Jake

Re: What do you tow with - 11/29/06 07:44 PM

Quote
She's beautiful Jake! "particularly exceptional" says it best.

GARY


Thanks - she can be yours! On Ebay now.
Posted By: Timbo

Re: What do you tow with - 11/29/06 10:12 PM

Jake, bring it down to Sebring, there is a whole racing class of those things. What kind of gas milage does that rotary get anyway, on the highway, when you keep your foot out of it? (at 65mph)
Posted By: Jake

Re: What do you tow with - 11/30/06 04:04 AM

This car is bone stock '85...not much of a racer...more for looks, handling, and prestige. I did have a 1.2 Liter 1982 model that I made several mods to and had about 225hp. In it's day, it was a 5.0 killer (sounded like a lawnmower on steroids - but they quit laughing shortly after I took off and smoked the tires all the way to halfway through 3rd gear). I had two project cars that I wanted to turn into the SCCA show-room racers but gave up when I found boats. They're not much for gas mileage - about 18 around town and maybe 22-24 on the freeway!
Posted By: saylor_nacra

Re: What do you tow with - 12/01/06 03:22 AM

2003 Dodge 2500 Cummings Diesel <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />, Put over 45,000 mile on her in the first year.

[Linked Image]


Carl

Saylor Specialties
www.saylorspecialties.com
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: What do you tow with - 12/01/06 11:29 PM

This thread now has the most replies ever. It now exceeds the "NAHCA bans all non-Hobies from events" thread. This one is much more positive too! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Banzilla

Re: What do you tow with - 01/16/07 09:09 PM

beware of the TEST!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 01/17/07 03:36 AM

I had to angle-grind/cut a ratchet extension out of a spark plug tube tonight on my tow vehicle tonight.

Damn thing went IN but damnit didn't wanna come on out.
Posted By: Jake

Re: What do you tow with - 01/17/07 04:15 AM

Quote
I had to angle-grind/cut a ratchet extension out of a spark plug tube tonight on my tow vehicle tonight.

Damn thing went IN but damnit didn't wanna come on out.


[Linked Image]
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: What do you tow with - 01/17/07 01:33 PM

Thanks Jake

Attached picture 96803-img113[1].jpg
Posted By: Boudicca

Re: What do you tow with - 01/17/07 05:53 PM

Holy cats, it's Mad Max!
Posted By: Boudicca

I tow with... - 01/17/07 06:08 PM

A 1997 Ford F250 extended-cab long wheelbase PowerStroke diesel truck. Which I do need to tow the F27GS.

That said, my daily driver was a v6 Ford Ranger until it literally was blown away.

I'm now looking to replace my little gas truck with a little diesel truck.

They can't be found, I'm having the devil of a time. It's my dream to have an all-Diesel stable, such that we can cook up our own biodiesel (easier than y'all think) and tell people with mindsets like the US folks posting here to kiss our butts.

BTW, husband works in the oilfield.

Y'all have absolutely NO idea just how filthily conspicuously consumptive the oil industry is. It's embarrassing, even though it's a great living for us. At least I can go to sleep with a clear conscience knowing that I've done a little to help.

For the children of tomorrow will surely be cursing those with the conspicuous-consumption mindset that I've seen exhibited in this thread. Please, those elsewhere in the world, do NOT think that all US shares the beliefs elicited by a few of the vocal here at this BBS.

Gore may be a ya-ya, but his message is sound. In fact, 'Inconvenient Truth' sounds like most of the lectures I had at college. Sorry y'all, but the news is truly bad. But hey, I didn't breed. It's YOUR children who will suffer, not mine...
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: I tow with... - 01/17/07 06:32 PM

What are you going to do with all the glycerine left over from your biodiesel?
Posted By: Boudicca

Re: I tow with... - 01/17/07 06:34 PM

Don't need to worry about knocking the glycerine off if a. install a preheater or b.use two tanks, one with reg. diesel and other with biodiesel, using reg.diesel to get engine warm first...
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: I tow with... - 01/17/07 06:35 PM

Quote
Gore may be a ya-ya, but his message is sound. In fact, 'Inconvenient Truth' sounds like most of the lectures I had at college. Sorry y'all, but the news is truly bad. But hey, I didn't breed. It's YOUR children who will suffer, not mine...


This just sealed the deal for me. I was thinking about getting an H2 SUT, and now, I'm go for launch. I'll keep my gas-guzzling sporty SUV for quick trips to the store, and the larger gas-guzzler for trips to anywhere I can annoy the most tree-hugging communist assholes I can find in any one place.
Posted By: davidtilley

Re: What do you tow with - 01/17/07 06:36 PM

Hold On:
If an old 12 mpg diesel hauls four boats, and a 48 mpg hybrid hauls one, who damages the environment more per mile?

The hybrid? Because it is new and the energy, toxins etc in producing it and its batteries usually outweigh driving the old vehicle twice as long?
Posted By: Boudicca

Re: I tow with... - 01/17/07 06:37 PM

There's a saying about 'opening your mouth and removing all doubt...' and you've just confirmed that the saying is a truism.
Posted By: davidtilley

Re: I tow with... - 01/17/07 06:42 PM

Not to be a Tree-hugging-communist-butt, but I think buying a vehicle to annoy others qualifies as conspicuous consumption.
It also qualifies you in various other categories.
Posted By: Boudicca

diesel v. hybrid - 01/17/07 06:46 PM

Tilley makes good points re: nastiness of hybrid tech (at this point) which is one reason why we are going diesel.

ps. Dave, get ready to have an envie attack. Jay is having a look at an '87 Merc-Benz Turbo WAGON... may replace 'Ti Bleu soon
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: diesel v. hybrid - 01/17/07 07:10 PM

One qualifying feature of all "Tree-hugging-communists" is that they have absolutely NO sense of humor and are incapable of laughter and automatically assume that any absurdity is indeed genuine when it contradicts their own views.

You've been trolled, and it worked :P
Posted By: davidtilley

Re: diesel v. hybrid - 01/17/07 07:39 PM

Sorry...I feel so foolish. And the joke was?? Explain.

(Hint: Wit would be something like: "...using up resources like there was no tomorrow...")
Posted By: NCSUtrey

Re: diesel v. hybrid - 01/17/07 07:42 PM

You guys are a bunch of chodes...please let this thread die.
Posted By: Boudicca

Maugan, - 01/17/07 07:46 PM

since you're such a genius that we lesser beings cannot even perceive your sense of humour, I'd like to pose a question to you.

Why would the 'tree-hugging communists*' lie about the state of things? They don't stand to gain from it unless they've invested in sustainable technology.

I can damn sure understand why the conspicuous consumptors have lied, they have far more to lose. All those profits out the window, retooling for different technologies is expensive, all sorts of ways to lose if the bad news is indeed true...

So, tell me why the 'treehuggers are lying? Huh?

___________________
*BTW, a compliment, considering that the first in the general record to put forth truly Communist ideas was Jesus Christ...
Posted By: Boudicca

Re: diesel v. hybrid - 01/17/07 07:47 PM

Trey, it is your choice to click your mouse on the subject button. Grow up.
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: diesel v. hybrid - 01/17/07 08:44 PM

Quote
Why would the 'tree-hugging communists*' lie about the state of things? They don't stand to gain from it unless they've invested in sustainable technology.


Everyone has an agenda. Forcing social change? Up-ending the "Haves" and "Have-Nots"? Solidifying political power? I could care less what your motives behind your agenda are.

The only thing I care about is the fact that your side is the one sticking its unwelcome finger in my face and trying to make me feel guilty for living the lifestyle I do.

So what do I do? I revel in my perceived obscenity. Its frankly liberating to know that I can bother people so much simply by being who I am.

Quote
*BTW, a compliment, considering that the first in the general record to put forth truly Communist ideas was Jesus Christ...


I'm sure Jesus and ole Joe Pa Stalin are sitting up there sipping Vodka tonics and looking down at us saying "CHRIST if they'd only GET IT!"
Posted By: davidtilley

Re: diesel v. hybrid - 01/17/07 08:59 PM

Wrong again:
Jesus is saying "Joe, if they'd only get it!"
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Maugan, - 01/17/07 09:30 PM

Quote
since you're such a genius that we lesser beings cannot even perceive your sense of humour, I'd like to pose a question to you.

Why would the 'tree-hugging communists*' lie about the state of things? They don't stand to gain from it unless they've invested in sustainable technology.

I can damn sure understand why the conspicuous consumptors have lied, they have far more to lose. All those profits out the window, retooling for different technologies is expensive, all sorts of ways to lose if the bad news is indeed true...

So, tell me why the 'treehuggers are lying? Huh?

___________________
*BTW, a compliment, considering that the first in the general record to put forth truly Communist ideas was Jesus Christ...


These are impotent argument points. First of all, everyone has something to lose, and "general record" is too subjective to argue.

I better solution for this argument might be to accept that we all have different points of view and move on.
Posted By: Mary

Re: Maugan, - 01/17/07 09:33 PM

Okay, JHC, I can't stand it any more. What is a "pants party"?
Posted By: Robi

Re: Maugan, - 01/17/07 10:14 PM

Quote
Okay, JHC, I can't stand it any more. What is a "pants party"?
A sausage fest? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Maugan, - 01/18/07 12:54 PM

Hi Mary,

It's a line from the movie Anchorman. It's a come-on line.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Maugan, - 03/20/07 05:10 PM

It seems like everybody tows their boats with the smallest vehicle they can find? Why? A Cooper? A Subaru? Where are all the redneck sailors. I tow my boat with a 3/4 ton pickup, Diesel. Modified. 300hp, 550 foot pounds of torque. Soon to be closer to 550hp & 800 ft/lbs. I get 17-18 mpg, boat, double stacked, empty doesn't matter.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Maugan, - 03/20/07 05:14 PM

That's exactly the reason. My budget wouldn't be able to afford that kind of mileage. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Bob_Curry

Re: Maugan, - 03/20/07 06:03 PM

I pull both my boats (H14-F17) with a 2006 Jeep Liberty. Get 16mpg at 75mph pulling the F17. RWD, 5000lbs towing and 210hp. All power, Sirius radio, 6 CD indash, auto. Gets 21mpg combined without boats. It's a freakin' go cart for adults! My dream vehicle is a new 4 door Wrangler Sahara. You only live once so screw gas mileage! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Bob <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: H17cat

Tow Vehicle - 03/20/07 06:17 PM

Agree again with Bob. In our case it is a 1997 Mercury Mountaineer (As a WVU grad, what else could I buy?) We tow double stacked Hobie 17's plus a 12ft Zodiac and 5hp(four cycle) outboard motor. Alternate tow is 21ft SeaRay Sundeck. With the Hobies and Zodiac, 15mpg, with the SeaRay, 11mpg at best. So mileage pulling the SeaRay is not good, it is still about three times better that it gets in the water. BTW, they both have the same 5 LT V8 engine.

Caleb
Posted By: Brian_Mc

Re: Maugan, - 03/20/07 06:32 PM

Quote
It seems like everybody tows their boats with the smallest vehicle they can find? Why? A Cooper? A Subaru? Where are all the redneck sailors. I tow my boat with a 3/4 ton pickup, Diesel. Modified. 300hp, 550 foot pounds of torque. Soon to be closer to 550hp & 800 ft/lbs. I get 17-18 mpg, boat, double stacked, empty doesn't matter.
You should rig it to run on friolator(?) oil! Save money, save the environment, and retire early to sail more! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Maugan, - 03/20/07 09:04 PM

I've kicked around the fryer oil injection systems, and making bio diesel. Neither is a good option in cold climates. Bio diesel gels up around 25F without any additives. Its was -20F for a month straight this last winter. This new low sulfur crap is so clean that there isn't much of an advantage to bio diesel in the enviroment department either. But if you make it your self you can get the cost down around 35-45 cents a gallon supposedly.
Posted By: C2 Mike

Re: Maugan, - 03/20/07 09:55 PM

Quote
It seems like everybody tows their boats with the smallest vehicle they can find? Why? A Cooper? A Subaru? Where are all the redneck sailors. I tow my boat with a 3/4 ton pickup, Diesel. Modified. 300hp, 550 foot pounds of torque. Soon to be closer to 550hp & 800 ft/lbs. I get 17-18 mpg, boat, double stacked, empty doesn't matter.


My new tow vehicle is a sedan granted but it does have a 6.0L V8 (370 ci). Redneck enough for you?
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Maugan, - 03/20/07 10:01 PM

Is it the Aussie version of our GTO except four doors? Holden Monero, manaco something like that. Those are hot. I want one. Too bad they don't come in diesel. They're like 425hp here.
Posted By: RickInMesa

Tow Vehicle - 03/21/07 09:34 AM

My 1961 Ford Econoline Pickup gets more attention than my H16. It has about 71.3 horsepower, so it's perfect for a job like this; still slows down on the hills, though.

Attached picture 101912-13_DoneSailing.jpg
Posted By: fin.

Re: Maugan, - 03/21/07 11:17 AM

I just don't like big iron.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Tow Vehicle - 03/21/07 11:47 AM

Quote
My 1961 Ford Econoline Pickup gets more attention than my H16. It has about 71.3 horsepower, so it's perfect for a job like this; still slows down on the hills, though.


I bet the sails slow it down a bit too.
Posted By: Mary

Re: Tow Vehicle - 03/21/07 11:56 AM

Quote
I bet the sails slow it down a bit too.

Not to mention the bridges. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: PTP

Re: Tow Vehicle - 03/21/07 12:42 PM

Quote
Quote
My 1961 Ford Econoline Pickup gets more attention than my H16. It has about 71.3 horsepower, so it's perfect for a job like this; still slows down on the hills, though.




I bet the sails slow it down a bit too.


beat me to it <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Clayton

Re: Tow Vehicle - 03/21/07 01:29 PM

Cool setup!
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Tow Vehicle - 03/21/07 01:36 PM

Here's a tow vehicle. 865hp 1372 ft/lb torque

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLeQMG3j-6o

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPe8TBUMPg8&mode=user&search=
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tow Vehicle - 03/21/07 01:43 PM

This would be my ultimate tow vechicle. BUT I think it is to low for the sand. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Still plan to get one <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Doug

Attached picture 101940-H258_1.jpg
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: Tow Vehicle - 03/21/07 01:48 PM

Quote
Still plan to get one


Kind of like that DK 17 you "plan" on getting?
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Tow Vehicle - 03/21/07 01:52 PM

I think if you can plop down the cash for that I'd just have the boat delivered to the beach each time you wanted to go out, hell have someone set it up and get it ready while they're at it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tow Vehicle - 03/21/07 02:15 PM

Quote
Quote
Still plan to get one


Kind of like that DK 17 you "plan" on getting?


New job will pay 6 figures in 2-3 years. You can get a replica with corvette motor and Porsche 5 speed for about $30,000 to $45,000 on Ebay. I would NEVER buy a real one. Maintenance is VERY expensive on real one, not to mention insurance. AND as for plan. I guess you just go out and buy all your stuff and never "plan" what you want. Either you have a lot of money OR a lot of junk. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Doug
Posted By: Clayton

Re: Tow Vehicle - 03/21/07 04:06 PM

Quote
New job will pay 6 figures in 2-3 years.

Doug


My "Old" job pays 6 figure now... the only problem is 2 of the 6 is behind the decimal... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Just thought I'd have some fun!

Peace,
Clayton

People don't plan to fail, they just fail to plan!
Posted By: H17cat

Re: Tow Vehicle - 03/21/07 04:49 PM

Quote
Here's a tow vehicle. 865hp 1372 ft/lb torque

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPe8TBUMPg8&mode=user&search=


Glad it is not a polluter.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Tow Vehicle - 03/21/07 04:56 PM

You can always do on of the fiero kit cars. Not quite as cool but still turns plenty of heads.
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: Tow Vehicle - 03/21/07 05:29 PM

Quote
Quote
Here's a tow vehicle. 865hp 1372 ft/lb torque

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPe8TBUMPg8&mode=user&search=


Glad it is not a polluter.


*snif snif*

Yup, running a bit rich :P
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tow Vehicle - 03/21/07 08:16 PM

Quote
Quote
New job will pay 6 figures in 2-3 years.

Doug


My "Old" job pays 6 figure now... the only problem is 2 of the 6 is behind the decimal... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Just thought I'd have some fun!

Peace,
Clayton

People don't plan to fail, they just fail to plan!


Clayton:

$100,000 a year is still $100,000 no matter how you count the zero's!!

Doug
Posted By: Jake

Re: Tow Vehicle - 03/21/07 08:21 PM

It isn't if you count these zeros....10,000.00
Posted By: macca

Re: Tow Vehicle - 03/21/07 09:09 PM

who needs a tow vehicle when you can put it on the roof....

Attached picture 102008-P3200088.JPG
Posted By: David Parker

Re: Tow Vehicle - 03/21/07 09:12 PM

You guys "down under" really do things differently than "up here". We use our boats upside down from you and we TOW our trailers, not push them. Weird, eh? It's the Fosters, I guess.
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Tow Vehicle - 03/21/07 09:22 PM

Quote
You can always do on of the fiero kit cars. Not quite as cool but still turns plenty of heads.


Hard to insure. But they do have kit car coverage for drivers that have regular cars they use on a daily basis.

Tow with a dune buggy. Or a three wheeled motorcycle (even better, a motorcycle with a side-car). THAT would turn heads.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tow Vehicle - 03/21/07 09:46 PM

Guys:

This will turn heads if they ever get it to the US. Major G forces at 100+.

http://www.carver-worldwide.com/Home/Index.asp?nc=1

Doug

Attached picture 102019-carver.jpg
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Tow Vehicle - 03/21/07 10:20 PM

Quote
New job will pay 6 figures in 2-3 years.

I had one of those. I spent so much time getting those six figures that everything else became secondary.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Tow Vehicle - 03/22/07 01:29 AM

I don't think that pick truck is much of a daily driver. Probably a trailer queen that see's some very expensive miles 300 ft at a time.
Posted By: C2 Mike

Re: Maugan, - 03/22/07 02:24 AM

Quote
Is it the Aussie version of our GTO except four doors? Holden Monero, manaco something like that. Those are hot. I want one. Too bad they don't come in diesel. They're like 425hp here.


Here 'tis. There are some higher hp versions available but as work buys it for me, I did have to be a bit careful. I have driven a 307kw version back to back with mine. You can notice a difference however drive the two a few hours apart and the difference is very difficult to pick. Both leave the traffic way behind <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Tiger Mike

Attached picture 102055-SS-V.jpg
Posted By: C2 Mike

Re: Maugan, - 03/22/07 02:29 AM

Quote
I just don't like big iron.


Lucky most of late model engines are aluminium then <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Tiger Mike
Posted By: Clayton

Re: Tow Vehicle - 03/22/07 12:52 PM

Quote
It isn't if you count these zeros....10,000.00


Thats what I was talkin' about.. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Clayton
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Maugan, - 03/23/07 02:48 AM

307 kw? That close to 500hp. America gets screwed on all the cool rides. We get lame, watered down sports cars from Japan. Most of Europe's vehicles are diesel and there is almost nothing to choose from in diesel here. There's alot of models/options made by US manufactures that aren't available here either.
Posted By: C2 Mike

Re: Maugan, - 03/23/07 04:49 AM

Quote
307 kw? That close to 500hp. America gets screwed on all the cool rides. We get lame, watered down sports cars from Japan. Most of Europe's vehicles are diesel and there is almost nothing to choose from in diesel here. There's alot of models/options made by US manufactures that aren't available here either.


They are closer to 440hp but it's easy to get them really going. There is a version going stateside shortly and will be called the Pontiac G8. Essentially the same thing but they have put an ugly front on it to appeal to Americans <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. Don't know what the power spec is yet but think 270kw at a minimum. I believe they will be around US$25k and on sale sometime in August.

Tiger Mike
Posted By: Qb2

Re: Maugan, - 03/23/07 09:23 AM

Has anyone lost their cat or parts of at speed?

or is that a new thread!
Posted By: Mary

Re: Maugan, - 03/23/07 09:27 AM

We have lost all kinds of things on the road, from whole boats to miscellaneous parts; but, as you said, that is for a different thread. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: C2 Mike

Re: Maugan, - 03/23/07 09:58 PM

Quote
Has anyone lost their cat or parts of at speed?

or is that a new thread!


I can certify that a Hobie 18 will travel at 180 km/h (115 mph) without parting company when you are running late to a regatta. This was quite a few years ago though.

Tiger Mike
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Maugan, - 03/23/07 11:15 PM

I just ran the number through a conversion program I have. kw is Kilowatt, right?...... If its 440hp thats about what ours are rated at. New ones are 435 or 445 hp. They're a great looking car with out being flashy. I like that in a vehicle, quick but bored small town police don't follow it for no real reason like they would a Camaro or Mustang
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Maugan, - 03/24/07 12:10 AM

Does Frankenstein drive a monster truck?
Posted By: C2 Mike

Re: Maugan, - 03/24/07 07:18 AM

Quote
I just ran the number through a conversion program I have. kw is Kilowatt, right?...... If its 440hp thats about what ours are rated at. New ones are 435 or 445 hp. They're a great looking car with out being flashy. I like that in a vehicle, quick but bored small town police don't follow it for no real reason like they would a Camaro or Mustang


KW = Kilowatt.

This car is essentially what your next Camaro will be based on. The chassis and drivetrain will remain with the new body plonked on top.

Tiger Mike
Posted By: Redtwin

Re: Maugan, - 03/24/07 01:09 PM

Quote
Has anyone lost their cat or parts of at speed?

or is that a new thread!


I once trailered my boat 20 miles to the water with a pair of needle-nose pliers sitting on the hulls. They made the trip and didn't part company.

I drive like an old man. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

-Rob V.
Posted By: SteveT

Re: Maugan, - 03/24/07 03:02 PM

Quote
Has anyone lost their cat or parts of at speed?


I drove home, about 50 miles, from a race with an open beer sitting on the bumper of my truck. I dodged a bullet there.
Posted By: David Parker

Re: Maugan, - 03/24/07 03:08 PM

Quote
I drove home, about 50 miles, from a race with an open beer sitting on the bumper of my truck. I dodged a bullet there.


Yeah, I hate it when they spill. Did you finish it when you got home?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Maugan, - 03/24/07 05:24 PM

Quote
I drove home, about 50 miles, from a race with an open beer sitting on the bumper of my truck. I dodged a bullet there.

Considering the open container laws you really did! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

re: Maugan - 03/24/07 11:12 PM

Seems like everytime I pull my boat out I'd forget the chip in the mast base. Loose it everytime. Except coming back from S. Padre one made it 1400 miles home. I buy em by the fist full, loose some, misplace others, actually wear out two a year and buy about 15. I've lost at least 2 Leathermans from leaving em on the tramp. Poor luck, or poor attentiveness to where I leave my stuff.
Posted By: becjm

Re: re: Maugan - 03/25/07 12:40 AM

Driveing From Sydney to Melborne (est 1000kms) got to melborne.Once we had removed the boats from the trailer we found that the trailer had all but snapped in half. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />The square section had cracked three sides leaving just one side holding the trailer togeather.
Traveling on bumpy outback roads at about 110Kph it probably would have been lucky to have gone another 50kms.
Two woddern boats sepperating from the car at that speed would have been messy <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Chris9

Re: re: check these out! - 03/25/07 01:03 AM

Check out these tires! We got almost every mile out of them. The five miles to the mechanics in the light rain last night was hairy!

Attached picture 102348-IMG_5204.JPG
Posted By: Chris9

Re: re: check these out! - 03/25/07 01:04 AM

the only tie to this post is this was going to be my tow vehicle.

Attached picture 102349-IMG_5203.JPG
Posted By: Chris9

Re: re: check these out! - 03/25/07 01:11 AM

One more <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Attached picture 102350-IMG_5202.JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: re: Maugan - 03/25/07 04:23 AM

Quote
Seems like everytime I pull my boat out I'd forget the chip in the mast base. Loose it everytime. Except coming back from S. Padre one made it 1400 miles home. I buy em by the fist full, loose some, misplace others, actually wear out two a year and buy about 15. I've lost at least 2 Leathermans from leaving em on the tramp. Poor luck, or poor attentiveness to where I leave my stuff.


When I had my 16 I got tired off paying Hobie prices for the chips. Get a piece of pipe about the size of the chip. Take it to a grinding wheel and sharpen to a cutting edge. Go buy Teflon from a plastic supplier in sheets, Take a hammer and punch out your own. I did it in the 80's. Much cheaper!!!!

Doug
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: re: Maugan - 03/25/07 04:44 AM

Quote
When I had my 16 I got tired off paying Hobie prices for the chips. Get a piece of pipe about the size of the chip. Take it to a grinding wheel and sharpen to a cutting edge. Go buy Teflon from a plastic supplier in sheets, Take a hammer and punch out your own. I did it in the 80's. Much cheaper!!!!

Doug

Get a size thicker than what Hobie sells. They last forever!
Posted By: Clayton

Re: Maugan, - 03/26/07 01:37 PM

Quote
Quote
I drove home, about 50 miles, from a race with an open beer sitting on the bumper of my truck. I dodged a bullet there.

Considering the open container laws you really did! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />


I think you would have a pretty good argument that you can't drink and drive with the beer on the bumper. Or you could say "thats not my beer!!!!" <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Clayton
Posted By: hobienick

Re: re: Maugan - 03/26/07 04:58 PM

Or, just drill a few 1/16" holes no more than 1/16" deep in the mast base. These will "grab" the chip. You will not loose that chip after teh first sail with that mod. Worn chips are actually hard to remove. I would only use 2 per season if I sailed every day.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: re: Maugan - 03/27/07 02:32 AM

I've got a brand new boat now. That chip holder idea works quite well. I think buying the teflon by the sheet is the way to go. The guy who bought my old 16 used to work at a place that handled things of that nature he was supposed to punch out a bunch for me but apperently forgot.
Posted By: Clayton

Re: re: Maugan - 03/27/07 01:12 PM

I had friends that cut circles out of milk jugs and stuck them in there. Said it worked great! Hows that for recycling?

Clayton
Posted By: Chris9

Re: re: Maugan - 03/27/07 03:52 PM

Plastic soda cap as well.
Posted By: hobie1616

Brother Can't Drive - 03/27/07 04:42 PM

Good thing he wasn't towing a cat.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cNVrMZX2kms
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Brother Can't Drive - 03/28/07 02:35 AM

$1.5 mil in Italian beauty lost forever. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
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