Tornados and tilt-trailers...questions

How hard are they to deal with in terms of loading/unloading? Can one large, strong person (moi) with minimal help from one much smaller, weaker person (mrs. moi) handle it? Over all setup time from trailer to sailing?

What about on the road vs. cross winds...do you remove the tramp to avoid a disaster?

Answers to any important things I've forgotten?

Thx!

Mike, "Tornado" on this forum, can answer that. Personally, I have seen a T loaded on a tilt trailer by one person only once, and that was a pretty special trailer. He just pulled the boat up to the trailer on the beachwheels, ready for trailering. Then he used a winch on the trailer to pick it up by rotating the tilting mechanism over the boat. Imagine the boat being trailered upside-down, and you get the idea.
Main problem for solo loading/unloading on a tilt trailer is that the boat weight around 145kgs in trailer trim. Lifting it on to the trailer is heavy work.
I have rigged/unrigged our T from the trailer many times. But then it has been broken down for trailering.

contact tami, she has two squares that utilize a really cool setup. The trailer picks the boat up!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm sure she has pics

Clayton

Yeah the best version I've ever seen was Kevin Cookes over in Maryland. He beachwheels the thing up next to the trailer, and the "arms" come down and pick the boat up by its crossbars, and an electric winch powers the thing to its trailered position.

Also his trailer frame was made from steel I beams not your typical flimsy box steel. Undoubtedly makes it harder to blow all over the road.

Yeah, brute force from yours-truly alone won't cut it w/o some mechanical advantage from the trailer. I can envision a trailer with a pivoting platform for the boat; you'd basically slide the boat on/off with it flat whether directly into the water from a ramp or onto a set of beach wheels. No clue if such a thing exists though, and there isn't much online info about these things, rolling your own may be the only way to go. Interesting about the seemingly "self-loading" designs...can't wait to get more details (hopefully with pix).

I pm'd Mike and asked him to chime in here, I've seen his trailer pix on his site, but I can't tell from them how much loading assistance is designed in.

tami's not accepting pm's, so if anyone knows her outside of the forum and can contact her, please ask her to comment here also. Same for Kevin Cooke...I found a Kevin Cook on the user list, but wasn't sure if they are one and the same since the listing made no mention of Maryland.

Thanks everyone!

on the same note: what are the max dimensions for the road? could you make a tilt for a supercat at 12ft. any thoghts.

Sure, just tilt it some more <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I saw one trailer that took two tornados, carried at 90 degree tilt. 12 foot isn't that high for a vehicle.

Paul

Max vehicle width in the US is 8.5'. Interestingly, 2*8.5^2 is very close to 12^2. Meaning that your 12' wide cat tilted on a 8.5' trailer will be just about 8.5' high, and the angle of tilt will be just about 45 degrees.

http://tinyurl.com/apwjw

link to thebeachcats.com pix of the Tilley tilting rack. The rig stands 11 feet overall, and 8'6" wide (axle is widened, this is a key factor to stability)

In your bio I see that you are still in the proces of upgrading from a mono to a multihull.

If I were you I would just migrate to a 8.5 foot wide catamaran over a Tornado or other wide catamaran. Far easier to trailer and far better race opportunities. Neither the 18 sq. nor the Tornado classes see much racing at all in USA. I think you can count the active crews of both classes on one hand.

It will be much better as in enjoyable to get an F18, I-20 or one of the older 8.5 foot wide cats. There are just alot more owners of these boats around and therefor you have a much larger chance meeting up with these at events or cat clubs.

Just a thought.


By the way what is your combined crew weight ?

Wouter

VERY useful pic sequence in that link, thx! I now have good idea of what was meant about hoisting the boat over onto the trailer. I'd been thinking about a system patterned after the glider on our patio that could be pivoted between up and flat on a set of hangers, but this looks much simpler. I especially like what looks like duct tape holding the brake lights on...

We're not too concerned with racing, at least my wife never has been. We do like to sail fast though, we're just more laid-back about it. I did some racing when was a kid, but none since. Once we pick a ride and start sailing it, that might change for me, and your point about being able to class race is a good one, but I seriously doubt it's something I'd get into since it would be sailing time apart from her.

We've pretty much decided to go with a high-performance boat for the pure fun of sailing, so we're focusing on the F18 and Tornado; the only real issue for us with the latter being trailering that extra beam. Either would likely make us VERY happy sailors, but I'm leaning towards the Tornado for it's ability to handle bigger water...we'll mostly be on Lake Erie and maybe the other Great Lakes, and if the winds up and from across the water, waves can get quite large. We've given much thought to the idea of starting out with an inexpensive learning boat before upgrading, but we know we want something fun ultimately, and figure it makes more sense to just go with what we want and learn that boat from scratch. We can sail as conservatively as we need to to start, and then start tweaking it for performance as we go.

As for our weight, I'm 6'5" and go about 215, she's 5'3" and goes about 105, so I figure we're about 320 or so combined...lbs not kg. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for all the comments, this is proving to be a very helpful community!

Are you putting her on the helm? If you can, let her/make her helm! The Tornado (and the F-18s) have quite high sheet loads, so it will probably be easier for you to trim sails.

The T need a little bit more wind before it flies a hull, but you are so light that it dont matter much. If you go for a Tornado, try to get a carbon mast as well. You are a little bit light to right it after a capsize, but the carbon mast makes it easier. You might also want to look into a custom mainsail, to match your weight.
I dont think the Tornado is more seaworthy than the F-18s. It is a bit longer and lighter, but the rig is also taller, so it evens out. The flat decks on the Tornado make it stop hard if you drive the bows under when coming down a wave..
If you are not going to race, perhaps you can find one of those prototype carbon Tornados buildt in the US?

If you do decide on a Tornado, there is a good Tornado mailing list with lots of US sailors at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TornadoCat/

Thanks, Rolf...VERY useful feedback.

Tornado can be loaded / unloader and tilted by one person, done it many times due to crew running late <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> but id does require effort and technique.

As for trailering, take tramp off if you are expecting gusts in excess of 40 knots.

Thanks...when I first posed the question I suspected that it could be done single-handed but not without effort.

Interesting about your wind speed figure, I'd have guessed a lower threshold for problems. I suppose much depends on the weight of the trailer...and when in doubt, better to spend a bit of time restringing your tramp than collecting pieces of your boat on the highway.

Hi Stuart,

My tilt trailer design has been very useful for me over the past 1.5 years. It has the ability to carry in dismantled or tilted mode. It can also carry two boats at once (one titled, one dismantled). For long distance trips I dismantle the boat. I have towed tilted in reasonably strong winds (~15-18 kts) without any problems. Remember, if you're doing 50-70 mph, it's basically all going to be headwind anyway (until you slow down:-).

I can use my design as a launch platform to float the boat off or on to the trailer, unlike the Tilly setup further up this thread.

I regularly need to put the boat on or take it off the trailer single-handed. I place the beach wheels under the transoms at the back of the trailer...grab the rear beam and pull the boat backwards until some weight gets on the beach wheels. Then move the bow, lift one bow enough to allow boat to slide back in the cradles and let the beach wheels roll the boat back. Return to the rear beam, lift up enough to kick the beach wheels forward some more. Repeat this process until the wheels are at the balance point (about 2 after of main beam).
Putting boat onto trailer is basically a reverse of this process.

The Tilt mechnism is dead easy...lash the low hull into the two cradles, attach the winch post line to the main beam at the inner gunwale. Use the hand winch to lift the hull all the way up to the top of the post so that the upper side of the main beam comes to rest under the wooden chock at the top of the post. Tie off a failsafe line for added insurance, stow the two swing-out support arms, secure mast below tilted boat, hitch up the Mini Cooper and you're done!





Mike.

Mike,

Thanks, I'll study the pix on your site in greater detail.

BTW...short of putting a Citroen 2CV in front, that may be the all time best boat towing picture ever. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

More tilt trailer pics. This is my Capricorn, however the trailer is built for a Tornado but with shorter tilt arms for the F18. Slightly longer tilt arms are all that is required to carry a Tornado.

Note - The F18 is too wide to trailer flat on AUS road, hence the nedd to tilt.







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