eXploder 23, mini-trans tri..

http://www.exploder.info/eng/content/view/42/124/

And what do we think about this?
Nice small boat, but that righting cycle looks a bit dubious in capsize conditions?
Cool that somebody try to get coastal racing going on small multis! One day I'll certainly get a craft like that for fast-fast coastal cruising and daysailing with family/friends (I even want to do some fishing with it).

that exploder 20, looks pretty sharp

way cool tri.

I'm in.

Question one, what kind of serious hydraulics or pulley system are installed to lift the middle hull out of the water by pulling the outer hulls together?

Question two, what is holding the mast up when doing this manoeuvre???

The boat looks cool and the re-righting concept is certainly something to think about, but in its current form, totally unfeasible.

Hey someone said going to the moon was impossible!

It can't be done!

I didn't say it couldn't be done.

Infact I said it was something to think about, and now that I have thought about it some more I have more to add...

The basic concept is to reduce the stability of the boat when capsized. This makes it easier to right. To reduce the stability significantly, the outer hulls need to be brought close to the centreline of the vessel. There are a couple of ways this can be achieved; by sliding them sideways (along the beams for example), by folding the beams about vertical hinges (outer hulls go fore or aft), by folding the beams about longitudinal hinges (outer hulls go up or down).

Once you've reduced the stability you have another problem to solve of applying a righting lever to get the boat upright. The easiest option is a weight of some description. The main hull may be best for this purpose.

I haven't figured out the problem of keeping the rig up without stays yet; except for having a freestanding rig, which I don't like.

Robi, it indeed features some sharp edges... ;-)

pic from Texel 2006

curved carbon beams and nice marstroem mast...

THere was a demonstration of a Farrier tri doing an ama fold up while capsized to achieve self-righting. THe mast on the farrier has temporary "baby" stays that connect to the middle hull to hold the mast while the wings are folded. I guess you need to set these in place prior to self-righting. Should be tricky while inverted.

The Exploder doesn't seem to have a cantilever fold mechanism like the farrier...so it requires hydralic assistance. From the photos on the site , I can't tell how this works.

Mike.

maybe the folded amas can be used to cradle the mast? probably would scratch up the hulls really good and put a lot of load on the mast at that resting point.

- The concept is fine.
- Keeping the mast up is doable, if all stays are attached to the mainhull.
- Strong and clever hardware is required in the beam-hull connection in order to keep the beams from folding up when sailing.

So far, so good. Now for the tough ones:

-Very strong hydraulics are required to fold the beams up and lift the boat out of the water to self right.
-Beam restraining hardware must self release when upside down.
-Activation of the hydraulics should also be authomatic.
-The last two items require six relay systems, causing dependence on electricity.

Conclusion: good concept on paper. Needs a lot of R&D to come to life.

Instead of hydraulics, use 4 separate worm gears.

Would you hand crank or use drive motors? With sealed gel cells you wouldn't have to worry about leaks in the inverted position and they should still work. Or could you use a linear actuator (if you can get a strong enough one) to move the amas?

Just a thought.

Clayton

Well despite all those who think it`s a nice theory, they seem to have built one, photographed it for us to see it`s real, and even found a sponsor to foot the bill. I`d like to believe they`ve even tested their theory and the folding mechanism actually does work, instead of being something that "needs a lot of R&D"...

http://www.exploder.info/images/stories/yacht/chrzest/IMG_8641.jpg

Having said that I`m sure it won`t be fun trying to right it in 7m swell and howling wind in the middle of the Atlantic in the night. But at least it allows the possibility of not having to be rescued when it all goes wrong. That is, if it works as they say it does <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Aha...the stays have multi-purchase systems on them for canting the rig but I bet, if long enough, that they could also be enabled to lift the amas and support the mast...although that's not what they have in the drawing and they talk about hydraulics (probably manually activated hydraulics).

HAWT!

I want one.

Notice the 'sit-out' seats <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

How cool would it be if they managed to get a mini-multihull transat going..

I missed those...neat concept - looks like they swing outboard too.

In the picture on their web site it shows some guys out on traps too. Nice, now when can we get them here in the US for less than a Corsair 750?

Am I the only one that wonders about the word "explode" being in the boat name? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Another point that seems a little lost in the boat description...the ama's have what seem to be lifting foils forward of the front beam....kinda like the Catri concept...the boat also has a dagger board in the main hull. Rudders hang off the ama's (unlike farrier & catri designs).

Mike.

I suppose lifting foils are becoming 'standard' on racing tris, as opposed to the self-righting mechanism. The geek factor here is very high, so no wonder the focus went there.

It would be surprising if this boat was designed to be sailed on two hulls, like the F-boats. Hence the rudders on the amas. Central daggerboard as a safety aspect I guess. Technology looks pretty much like a scaled down ORMA60.

Those come standard with seat belts!? Wooo-hooo!

It's a very wide boat, do you want to be strapped to the seat when the [noodle] hits the fan? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

No kidding. Did you see the video? Look at how seldom the bows ever go in! Seems to be "on plane" most of the time.
catamaran video

alternate low quality you tube version in case the real one won't work for you

The strikerless design with curved crossbars gives a nice hollow underbelly.

GARY

I would like to believe it as well, but unfortunately the photo does not indicate that we can.

If they somehow tested the self righting system, it is reasonable to supose that the photos would be posted in the website, so we can reasonably assume that they haven't.

Unless there are engines hidden inside the beam locking system, I see no means to fold the amas and self right.

The giant pins locking the beams in place seem quite difficult to remove. I can't see how they would self-release in the event of a capsize.

Until the engineering problems are solved and the boat is capable to self-right, we can only believe in what we see: a nice folding tri that requires lots of R&D to become a self-righting vessel.

yes, but the lack of bows is what has me turned off from the design. Eventually, they WILL go under <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pehaps the lifting foils will counteract this tendency - looking at the photos the boat has enough volume in the amas to support the whole boat without the lifting foils. Having seen some footage of tri`s with these slanted lifting foils, all I have to ask is "why ain`t I got those on my boat ?"
I watched some promotional video footage of the Seacart 30, and when flying two hulls the boat pitches quite a lot in gusts, even in flat water - I`d think that they missed the opportunity to counteract this using lifting foils, and would hate to see how much pitching happens in a lumpy sea.
Anyone have any ideas as to why it would be a bad idea to implement these type of foils on a small beach catamaran design, I`m listening...

Hmmm. Call me stupid, but in the photos I can`t make out slots in the hulls for these "lifting foils", and they don`t seem to be a built-in component of the hull either. - did they not make it to the production phase, I wonder ?

Steve,

I was talking about the bows on the exploder 20 cat that was pictured on their site.

They were present during building at least..



Luiz have some good points. I am waiting eagerly for more news about this project and especially the self righting technique.

23 feet wide and 23 feet long.. I seriously hope they get a class going based on this. Would be seriously cool and attractive boats. But I would want Phill Brander to design mine <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

They attend a few big regattas here in Holland and always do very well, if not better, than Tornados, Nacra20s, M20s and other Supercats (TR <=100).

Thats nice.

I don't recall saying anywhere that it wasn't fast.

The description about the righting system states that the arms each have one "quick release pin" that needs to be pulled before folding. I can't imagine a pin with shear load on it (weight and or buoyancy, and possibly rig tension) to be less than extrememly difficult to extract.

GARY

I'm pretty sure I see the slot for that board just between the "n" and "s". I really like the concept behind this boat - but I wonder how difficult those boards are to work with when they are so low on the outside of the hull like that. I'm willing to be they have some ingenious line to control that board.

Whats with the mobile home sponsor? Doesn't seem like good marketing <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Although the DUO 1100 looks interesting... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think the same company makes both the boat and the mobile homes.

Jake lets go halvsies on one of these bad boys.

Sorry there, I didn`t notice this thread had migrated into a discussion of two different boats, thought we were all discussing the tri.. Perhaps I should read the header of each post more often.
On the flip side, if you`re worried about the bows going in on the cat, maybe you could just ask them to add the lifting foils ? Or am I the only one who thinks this might be a feasible thing to do on a beach cat ?

"I'm pretty sure I see the slot for that board just between the "n" and "s". I really like the concept behind this boat - but I wonder how difficult those boards are to work with when they are so low on the outside of the hull like that. I'm willing to be they have some ingenious line to control that board."

Well spotted Jake - I was looking much higher on the hull side, above the name. Didn`t expect them to be so low. Would you need to pull them up and down while sailing, or would you just put them down and leave them there for sailing, only pulling them up for beaching ?

I have no idea - my concern would be getting a big bugger on one during an Atlantic Crossing while it's blowing 30 and having to clear it.

Yea but look at the boards they must be close to two meters in length... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Well spotted twice.

The bruce foils are in a very horizonal angle and seem to have no raising/lowering controls. My guess is that one would trapeze out to insert the board and move it, like they do in boats like mine to put the boards in place (although we have lines to control the boards). Those foils have to be reinfoced (= heavy) to withstand important bending loads, so the task is far from easy.

All that said, I really hope they succeed. A self righting foiled tri would be the first multihull to have real potential to send monohulls to the museum, from dinghys to maxiyachts. So lets think positive:

I hope they figure out a better way, but if everything else fails, explosive pins could solve the problem of releasing the beam locks.

The most difficult remains the system to fold the amas under the capsized boat in order to lift the mainhull out of the water.

A solution I figured out would be to lead both (syntetic) shrouds to the mainhull, where an electric winch would tension them simultaneously. That would require a strong mast, with extra stays. And I am not sure if it would work. Any other ideas?

Are there any realistic and tested alternatives to their righting method? How long a Solo~Right would you need to right this one Gary <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Why could you not pull them up by simple pulling them [the AMA's] together? [towords each other]

or via the mast, pulling them towards the mast with the attachment only at 2 mtr [7ft] high

The load is maximum during the first ten or twenty degrees folding, when we are starting to lift the mainhull and tramps (together with the water that entered the mainhull), from the water surface.

Now that you mentioned pulling the amas together, I guess the best way to do it would be with a pulley connecting the shrouds about 2 o 3 meters high. The mechanics of this system guarantys maximum tension in the shrouds when the pulley starts to be tensioned, exactly when we need it. Later, as the shrouds are deflected by the pulley, the tension is progressively reduced.

I'll try to sketch the idea and post it.

Don't get in front of the pins when they explode. Do we have to wear flack jackets?

GARY

That sounds alright. Pulling them together from the chain plates would probably work, although it would be an unstable geometry (a trapezoid) and would move around a lot. The risk would be damaging something with the whole boat twisting around uncontrollably.

Unless you only moved one ama at one time and then could lock it in the up position somehow.

I'm getting fatigued and ready to fall overboard just thinking about doing all this stuff, especially if it's a pulley system.

Let's see a video of it working before we speculate any further and commit the idea to the bin.

actually, if you were doing this, you WOULD be overboard...but I second the vote for a video.

Also in favor of a video.
The attachment shows a system that should work.
A pulley between the shrouds and another between the amas.
The geometry makes the first pulley extra powerfull, which is necessary to sink the floats and lift the mainhull out of the water.

So the mainsail would have to be down? I didn't really think about it, but that alone could be very tricky on a capsized tri.

Luiz,

I want to know who is going to swim down to pull the red pulley? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mike Hill

Beat me to that question Mike! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Clayton

Godd question, I didn't think of it.

I guess the shroud's pulley would be almost aft of the mainsail. The risk of tearing the sail is reduced if the mainsheet is released, but I wouldn't bet a sail on this.

Without a vang one could pass the pulley under the boom. As the pulley is tensioned, the boom sinks, further releasing the sail. This would probably do the trick.




I guess this is a task for tha skipper who returns from the trapeze to the tramp to adjust the mainsheet... Or maybe for the crew who does the same to adjust the jib... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Or run the line in front of the mast between the two shrouds...but it might have to be there all the time while sailing.

The mast could break if the chainplates for the shrouds are too far back (the pulley would make an angle in the mast) and if the boat is heavy, which would require more tension in the pulley to raise the mainhull from the surface.

Just thought of a different problem: if everything we devised works, the boat will not be righted, it will seat sideways.
After all that work, one would still have to stretch the amas again in such a way that the boat doesn't capsize again.

I thought the exploder diagram showed just that?

I didn't see it.

IMage

Thanks for the drawing! I guess it is probably feasible in a very light 23 ft folding tri, but not in bigger ones - especially offshore.

Some new photos have come on-line. Still nothing on practical righting tests, but some of the structure for moving the crossbeams is visible.

http://www.exploder.info/images/stories/yacht/budowa/wyjazd01.jpg

http://www.exploder.info/images/stories/yacht/budowa/wyjazd02.jpg

http://www.exploder.info/images/stories/yacht/budowa/wyjazd03.jpg

That boat really makes me giddy.

Ooohhh man, that would look good behind my truck. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

So availability? Price? Could it replace F boats as alternative?

so, how do you keep the rig on the boat when righting? look at jake's drawing and tell me where the shrouds are.

We don't know yet...still waiting for a photo or video?

And I thought a Tornado tilt trailer was scary on the highway! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

This boat is far different from the F-Boat design mentality. They are not comparable.

As far as problems:

Will this boat fit under bridges on the trailer? It looks tall.

How will the mast be supported when the boat is being righted?

And how do I launch this thing? It is too wide for a hoist and too wide for a ramp launch.

Every time I look a tris they look cooler and cooler to me.

Perhaps it launches with one amah down, one up, which should fit on a ramp. The second amah would then be lowered on the water. The mast could be supported by sister shrouds from the edge of the center hull deck until both amahs are locked down and the side shrouds tensioned.

Chris.

Could we maybe see a VWM eXploder 23 in the future?

I made a rough estimate of the height on the trailer using a couple of pictures from the exploder website, assuming 23' length on the plan view and get something like 11' high on the trailer.



Upsized plan view. Assuming a 23' center hull length gives a length from the pivot point to the edge of the amah of just over 7'



Rear 3/4 view. Using the measurement from the first picture and guestimating the bed height of the trailer and the height of the center hull I get to just under 11'. A quick search revealed a clearance standard of 14' on US Interstates in urban areas and 4.5m (14' 9") on German roads. So it should be OK (similar to a F31OD on the trailer?) - just look out for low trees!

Chris.

Mary, you're RV is taller than 11'.

About launching. I suppose there is a rather large difference between the US and Europe in that we have more mast-up storage and largish ramps or beaches available at our clubs. Many clubs also offer berths, or for boats like this, end berths.

Here is a message from the builders:



Exploder 23 is experimental water craft. Many unexpected technical problems appeared during execution of the project, which resulted in much longer realization time. Finally the boat will be launched on the Bay of Gda&#324;sk waters on7-8th April and middle April will be dedicated to the test on the water. Provided that the test results are satisfactory, at the end of April we plan departure to Carnac in France, where the boat will be presented on EuroCut regatta, and than further tests on the open ocean. Final target of our preparations is to sail from Cadix to San Salvador and compare our result with the results of the biggest multihulls that will try to beat that record this season. If the boat passes that exam safely we plan to sail from Bermuda Islands to Plymouth in July. Both trials across the Atlantic will be taken in two-man crew – Wojciech Kaliski and Adam Skomski.

There is a full set of moulds for serial production of Exploder 23. In principle we could already offer it for sale, however taking into consideration the experimental character of the construction we have decided to take the test first and confirm that all new concepts and technical solutions are a success. Except of that during the production of a prototype we realized that some elements should be re-designed to lower the costs of the serial production. For instance we will be able to make out rigger hulls and cross beams in the autoclave very soon.

Taking all above into consideration the price of the yacht hasn’t been calculated yet. Before we started the project we estimated the price to be € 70-80 thousand. However it is sure now


that the boat will be more expensive. We expect rather the price of € 90-100 thousand and the final price we will confirm having finished the tests on the water – in May or June. Nevertheless we hope to offer you for this amount the most exciting small racing yacht that enables easy transportation, preparation for sailing and launching. The first photos, film and data regarding the tests will be available on our web page at the end of April.

Best regards
Krzysztof Kozerski
www.exploder.info

[sentence enhancer]!! That's bloody expensive for a 23' boat! $120 to $130k US

Each 2 feet of that boat is almost the price for a new Hobie Tiger!

It's a huge amount of money, half a decent home around where I live. Good thing that you can homebuild such a boat if you want to, with a pretty good shot at a decent result (sans the folding/righting system). However, a lot of people buy 30foot monohulls which sails like pigs at the same cost. At least you will have fun, exitement and speed with the "exploder". But the price is just one side of it. What I find more interesting is the total faith in their righting system, which it dont sound like they have even tested yet. Interesting times coming up I think!

Yeah, but it is not attached to a little ball on the back of another vehicle.

It'll be going on my "things to buy when I win the lottery" list. One of these days <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Bang for buck, I think I would still look at the Corsair/Farrier line.

I've been there, or, better, I AM there.
For that price you can have my boat, that is, IF it is ever finished...

Luiz

Agreed. Unless they succeed in making a decent self righting system. That would allow pushing it to the limit. Then the "smallest and fastest self righting boat in the world" would be sold at a premium. In France, though...

Another message from the builders/developers:



Delay with the hydraulic beam system.. Not surprising. This will be an interesting story to follow.

Read:

Sailing tests are ok, but it will take forever to find a hydraulic system that is light enough to keep the boat floating on its lines.

In order to be able to self-right the boat, the whole hydraulic setup, with tubes, pumps and energy sources, can easily result heavier than the rig. Perhaps even heavier than the entire boat.

Luiz

I am taking my boys to Eurocat Carnac this weekend so I will be on the lookout for this machine [Hunt it down if necessary] and report back . must charge up my camera.

La Trinite [just along the beach] is one of my favourite spots on the planet. Its a multihull heaven. Not sailing in Eurocat this year so I can compensate with lots of snooping around!

Au Revoir!

I would suspect any hydraulics would be run by a hand pump...like a car jack stand. No need for an engine-operated pump & fuel source...plus making sure it can work while inverted <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

That's correct if you want to right the boat using the hydraulics. If you want it to SELF right, though, you'll need an automatically activated pump.

Well, let's agree to disagree on what is meant by "self right".

My Tornado w. carbon mast can be "self-righted" with me leaning off the striker... outside assistance not needed.

Understood and agreed. I call "self-right" what you would call "automatic self-right".

I like to think that this boat was designed to right itself without any action from the crew - much like a ballasted monohull. With multihull speed and monohull self-right (or automatic self-right) capability, it would beat monohulls in each and every point = complete supremacy!

Dream BIG!

there are sailing pictures up on the website

There has been some months now, and it seems like the project has met more trouble than anticipated. At least no success stories on their website. I tought perhaps it was worth to revive this thread after reading about the french who recently crossed the pond on a 20 foot special purpose beachcat. They went over, and righted their boat.

"Latest" news about the Exploder 23 (25) tri: http://www.exploder.info/eng/content/view/19/125/

There is also a youtube video of the boat, now dubbed to the Explorer 25. http://youtube.com/watch?v=KB9uzwjO11I

Just found out, the boat is for sale for EUR69000. Ref: http://www.multihull.de/markt/sportboote.htm

I suppose the project is at an end then. No record attempts over the atlantic and no successful self-righting.