distance racing

Tback: What's the longest distance you've done on the Blade?

Those with experience: What's the longest distance you'd do on a 16' boat, single handed?

Any advice?

After one test sail on a Blade, I'd solo that thing to Catalina Island in a heartbeat. 20+ nautical miles from the closest launch point.

GARY

They used to run the Worrell on H16's

I would not hesitate to run it on a Blade, it is a lot faster and more comfortable than the Hobie---PROVIDED there were other 16s. Being the only 16 against all 20+ boats I have done in the Steeplechase. If it is first to finish go with bigger you will be a lot less beat up after 1000 miles on a 20 than a 16, but then again you'll feal even better after finishing on a Fontain Pajot 46. If it is a race with like boats it really doesn't matter.

M

Single handed in the Inter 17 (so yes, not quite 16 feet long)

ECPR (East Coast Piers Race) 2005 - 48.7 Miles.

Space Coast 45 -- uni Bring a camelback for hydration. don't capsize <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I would do the 100 mile FWB RTI on the Blade 2-up. The distance doesn't bother me.. just a wee bit nervous being solo out on the gulf with the possibility of no one around. Half the fun of these boats is the water smacking you around so 16 ft wouldn't bother me.

32-35 miles (in a straight line, sailing distance was prob farther) solo is the farthest I've gone. Half was a spin run which was pretty tiring. It was all in the ICW between barrier islands and the mainland (Navarre to Pcola and back to Navarre).

12 to 13 miles solo in more "open" water. Can you call Slip-to-Ship "open water"? Still somewhat protected but it was a long way from land.

Ditto on the CamelBack. Comes in handy when 1-up. I may wear 2 next time. One with Gatorade and one with beer. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I wouldn't hesitate to do RTI 2-up. It has been done on H17 with screecher (and won on handicap, I believe).

Those Tybee blokes are hard core.

a few years ago our friend Jim Gates 'the old fart of the sea' singlehanded the RTI on his H16. Trophied, if I recall correctly.

Now that's brutal.

How big is your screacher. I have a 78 sq ft reacher on my 17. Can't wait to get a Blade on 2008.

Doug

Never single handed.

1983

Across the Lake Race, Hobie 16s. On Lake Michigan. Wilmette (north of Chicago) to Michigan City, Indiana. 50 miles or so on the rhumb line, 30 miles furthest offshore.

We were young and had no fear.

Jack

That is kind of a personal question... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

It wasn't me. Fellow by the last name of Whitehurst. Top notch sailor.

I did RTI a 100 mile race which starts in Fort Walton Beach, Florida several years ago on an F17 solo. You do think about the fact that you are solo when you get on that offshore downwind tack trapped out with the spinnaker up. After several of those long tacks while bouncing off the wave tops, I decided it might be better to just sail a lower course and stay aboard the boat. I would recommend that you sail a distance race of this length on a two man boat.

Tom

You can distance race on a single handed boat or a small boat like an F16, but it doesn't compare to a stable platform like the NACRA 6.0 or NACRA 20. I haven't sailed the NACRA 20 but did own a 6.0. Sailing RTI on the 6.0 is a breeze compared to doing it on a small boat. The 6.0, because of it's weight and length, takes most of the pounding that would otherwise be absorbed by the sailor(s) on a smaller boat. Also, there is the safety aspect. If you fall overboard and some how get separated from the boat while sailing solo, you are really in trouble because the boats can be separated by several miles on races of 100 miles or more. The newer smaller boats may look real nice, but for distance racing, it's best to stay with something at least 20' long and 400lbs or better.

Tom

I'm sorry? A small lake boat ? Did not know we were not allowed to sail them in the sea. I think you've made a mistake here; When I picked mine up I was not told I could not sail it on the sea. Do we need to change our class rules to not allow championships on the sea ? Does that mean the UK F16 nationals should not have been sailed on sea. Does that mean that we need to move the event at Zandvoort because we sail lake boats and it's on the North Sea ?

I think not.

Looks like you need to reread my post.............

Me bad.......

Sorry - my only defence is that I'm at home with (possible) Chicken Pox and feel like crap.........

No problem. Don't get me wrong though, I like that F16 Blade. And if I were the owner of one and say under 40 years old or so, I would probably be saying what a great boat it is for either buoy racing or distance racing...........

Like the guy said earlier, they started doing the Worrell 1000 on Hobie 16's. As a matter of fact, I just saw an old Hobie 16 sitting in this guy's driveway when I was returning from a bike ride. It had one yellow hull and one white hull. Still looked tough as nails though. I wonder..........


I wonder how a Hobie 16 would have done going through that heavy surf off the beach the Tybee guys had to deal with. Maybe it would have gotten through easier with those rocker hulls. Sorry to alter the thread somewhat but I was just wondering..............

I'm doing the ECPR on my Stealth F16 this year - as the crow flies it is about 45 miles (the above was a direct out and back).

I'll let you know what it's like <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Done several 50 nm distance races on my F16, mostly in pretty rough or unstable conditions.

Last september I did one of those singlehanded.

I don't see a problem if you are a sufficiently experienced skipper. Afterall the safety coverage is always less on a distance race and the crew is responsible for making sure that they can take care of themselfs (himself) if a mishap happens.

I don't think the actuall distance of such a race is an important consideration. The expected weather conditions in relation to your own skill level is the paramount consideration. Of course this assumes that your craft is in good condition and well cared for.

I would have no problem considering distances races like Texel on my F16, even solo if I thought that the cost associated with that race are worth it (which I don't).

When I go sailing recreationally it is not uncommon for me to clock 30 nm-50 nm singlehandedly. I know it is not really allowed at my club but now and then I enjoy sailing out to a large sailboat that can be seen travelling some great distance away from shore. Sometimes I bring my GPS and most often I clock around 50 km (30 nm) on an afternoon like that (a couple of hours sailing). Often this includes some spinnaker legs with the hull lifting that last 30 minutes or more (about 10 nm).

I feel this to be more of a risk then any distance race where there will mostly be other boats around to assist you if things go really wrong.

Now I'm not advising that everybody does this, there are definately risks. However in my opinion the boat can handle it without much trouble. Some sailors make far too much out of the hulls being 16 foot length. You need to know your boat and where the threshold are, when you do then everything is fine irrespectabally whether it is 14 foot or 20 foot. I now know my F16 intimately (pun !) and can push it for hours on end without going over or making a serious dive. I just now its little warning signs and know exactly what to do in response.

Of course I race my F16 solo regulary as well and I have gained lots of experience in pushing the boat in all conditions that way. And I can right my F16 singlehandedly in all conditions and on occasion have done so during one of these long afternoon sail trips. That gives me alot of confidence. I do bring a mobile phone with me so if things go really bad (breaking an arm or leg) then I can phone the catamaran club or somebody else who can go out and pick me up.

Wouter

That's funny. I was talking to Frank Moore on the beach after Seacat's final attempt to get through the surf and he said he would have taken a 16 solo through that surf.

Wouter/Gang:

Well I tried the chute this weekend again on the Mystere 4.3 and I am ready for buoy race in two weeks. Can't wait to try a distance race on it. Chute REALLY makes this little boat move.

Doug

Hi Doug -

I've done several distance races on the 4.3. Just remember that you have to keep that little 'chute working - sail it higher than you think you need to and your speed will be much greater. In lighter air, keeping the boat moving is more important than always pointing in exactly the right direction. Be willing to abandon a preferred heading in favor of elusive zephyrs. You can slacken the spin halyard to carry it higher - in this manner, I have been able to carry the 'chute in jib-reach conditions, which is a dramatic advantage. Fly the 'chute until you simply can't anymore.

In buoy racing, remember to position yourself right over that skeg when trapping. Keep footing for boatspeed and let the apparent help compensate for the absence of dagger boards. Mast rake! Put the CE of the mainsail right back there with your body weight for synergistic advantage.

Clean snuffs at the bottom of the course before you get there so you can control your steering better as you round. The mast is very heavy and stiff - you will be fine sheeting and travelling the main way out as you get ready to snuff to keep speed up into the rounding. I did it like this:

Sheet out/travel out main, snuff 'chute, trim jib for upwind, travel up main as you start to round, sheet in as you round (enter wide, exit close a la Rick White), trap on upwind heading, polish main trim.

Great little boat. Have fun. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

John,did the fact that your level of security rose when on the M4.3 put you on your Capricorn,I would think that is a big jump. Did you also say you thought you were to light for an I20.I noticed alot of smaller guys able to handle the boats in the Tybee. As well as the N6.0's on our beach for that matter makes me think optimum sailor wieght on average is about 155-165 in all conditions on anything? sorry to Hijack the plane..

Another thing that is wrong with sailing a smaller boat in an open distance race is the handicap system. That's why we like to watch distance races like the Tybee 500. Most of the boats are the same. It's all about the sailors.

Whereas, in our local RTI, you can race anything from a Mystere 4.3 to an RC27. Let's say the Mystere guy wins on handicap. Nice. Congrats! But the problem is everyone has already finished the race, party'd hard , had dinner, and hit the sack!! Poor ole Mystere guy is like what the F%$K! I just kicked all your butts, and you don't even know it. The other guys are like ...yeah, your handicap has got to be wrong!!

I'm thinking I would enjoy sailing RTI over there in Ft. Walton Beach on a Super Cat 22. Now that would be a good boat for a race like that. Or make everyone sail a Hobie 16 in a separate division from the handicappers. Now that would be a race! A little RTI Ironman...................

Tom

Anybody got a SuperCat 22 for charter around the time of RTI in Ft. Walton.... (-:

Hi Bob -

Long story somewhat short(ish); The Mystere folks were unable to fill a new boat order for me - I'd sold mine in anticipation of having a new one in time for the Nationals. With changes at the factory in production priority, I cancelled my order after waiting several months. In the mean time, I was continuing to crew for anyone who would have me - I was having the most fun at F18 events since all my Hobie and Nacra friends were there at the same time. Decided to get into the F18 fleet as an owner and ordered an Infusion. The roll-out in the US was delayed a bit, and it happened that there were plans to bring in some Capricorn F18s - the money was burning a hole in my pocket, I'd been boatless for a year, and the Infusion delivery dates were uncertain even for the rockstars at the time. I took a chance and I'm glad I did - fun class to sail in.

I think I'm a little light for the N20, but the F18 gives me lots of flexibility - two sail plans to accomodate teams from 250-pounds on up. I like sailing the smaller sails and have enjoyed greater success while sailing lighter. The big sails let me still ask the bigger guys along. Fits my preference for two-up, spinnaker buoy racing perfectly. At the same time, while a 400-pound boat with the small sail plan is not the best tool in the box for distance racing (the topic of this thread), you can still have a fun time in a mixed fleet (Mug Race) or at a F18-dominated event like the Great Texas.

John:

I don't plan yo do long distance races on the 4.3. I am just using the 4.3 as a training platform to learn spin on before I get the Blade and to turn over to Ashleigh to sail and race with her friends.

John:

How important are telltales on the spin? I have three sets. Middle of top panels, middle of sail and bottom third of sail. Tried to keep leewards flowing back and dancing a little.

Doug

Hi Doug -

I might get roasted for this, but I don't use tell-tales on the spin. The two spins that came with the Capricorn both have them, but I never look at them when I'm crewing. I don't remember if there were tells on my 4.3 spin - 'cause I never looked. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Jamie Diamond has that spinnaker now - maybe he'll post and remind me.

feel the force Luke. Rip the tell-tales off. I think they're worthless and distracting on a spin.

Instead, just get that leading edge lightly popping every 5 or 10 seconds and your golden.

thanx for your reply JW. As far as distance racing do you think that the F18 has been maxed out in performance in this country compared to the rest of the world. I would have thought it would have been the boat to beat on the jupiter leg of the Tybee this year. The Tybee organizers are doing the right thing by holding fast to the I20 as its premier boat. There are a lot of designs out there that can obtain the speed of the I20 but it appears to be easier to create speed in all directions to the wind than other designs even for the relatively less experienced teams.There is nothing wrong with the I20 as the boat of the future and riegn in these long distance events like the Tornado in the olympics. just blabbering on.... Bob

It must make the boat move ,just look at the size of the snuffer bag,you dont need a spi, is that normal ?

Put Mischa on a F18 during the Tybee with all others on I-20's and see what happens then. I predict he will still come out on top.

Point in case. Several Round Texel races over the past years. The only boats to beat the F18's on elapsed are pretty much custom Eagle 20's and Tornado's.

Wouter.

BobG:

Believe me. the spin may be small, BUT it make that boat MOVE when there is enough wind,

Doug

There was not enough wind on this years Tybee (on average) for the F18 to overcome the advantage of a taller mast and more sail area of the I-20. When the wind increased or it was close hauled with the spinnaker the F18 did quite nicely, but a few hours of light wind each day was enough to unravel any gains we made.

What was the wind speed at the recent Texel Island races?

Chris.

you guys were definitely smoking hot on a tight spin reach.

Texel typically has a good amount of wind, so the round texel race is often sailing in 15+ knots all the way.

Wouter

sorry Doug, what I meant is it looks like a big snuffer bag for the size of the boat must be a big spin for the size also.

Just a stock setup. Way the boat was made. I bought it to learn spinnaker on and price was good. $2700.

Doug