West Marine Scam

Today I went to West Marine to see what they were getting for sail bags. Three weeks ago I went to Home Depot and bought a 3 oz. tube of 3M 5200 adhesive/sealant for $5.00 to reseal the deck/hull joint on my ancient TheMightyHobie18. West Marine was asking $12.00 for that same tube! In the immortal words of John Macenroe, "You cannot be serious!"

D. Ho
TheMightyHobie18 1067

Free market and all that. They can charge what they want and we can decide whether or not to buy it there.

I agree its market driven. In any business market, the people chose what to do with their money (sometimes unwisely). Depending on the product and/or service, cheaper is not necessarily better.

I've been to West Marine and received good advise/assistance. Something you rarely find at the large superstores. That assistance is not free, those guys need to eat!

Like I tell my customers when they say I'm too expensive, "My employees have a problem. At the end of the week they like to get paid. If I don't charge enough to do the job like it needs to be done, they can't get paid". You would know what happens then.

Peace,
Clayton

Yeah, I would hardly call that a scam. I don't buy anything at West Marine unless I have too - they can charge what they charge because they are usually very convenient during that regatta.

Would you believe that Walmart carries 5200 here? I would call Home depot's price a scam in comparison. There is a reason it is nicknamed "worst marine."

Matt

Hmmm! Gues I am scammer, too. We pay $10.40 a tube and resell it for $12.95.
Shame on me for gouging like that. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Rick

Rick,
Of course I noted the sarcasm in you post, but... As a retailer we're expecting you to take a markup of some sort. The difference between a retailer that has the respect of it's regulars and one that becomes nicknamed "worst marine" is, now that you know where to get it at $5 a tube, will you use that supplier and pass the savings on to your customer... or will you use that supplier and continue to charge 12.95 per tube?

Yea Rick, I am about to spend $300+ on some your over priced items <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just reread that post. It reads a bit negative toward Rick. Sorry Rick, that wasn't my intent. Lets try this instead:
I have a hardware store near me that always sells lumber products at the same price. They take the amount that wood sells for when it’s at its highest cost during the year and sell it to me at that price plus their markup. On the other hand I have a lumber yard near me that sells their lumber for cost plus their markup. Sometimes it costs as much as the hardware store, but its price is always changing based on their cost.

Guess which store I buy my lumber from.

And of course, PTP, Clayton and Jake are right. It’s all market driven. If WM can sell a tube of goop for $25 and its 2 bux at your store, it’s your choice on where to buy it from and if the convenience is worth the difference in the price.

Of course I am doing this because it is worth the few extra $$$ for all of the info I get from the boards, and when I was looking for cleats for my traveler control lines, Rick knew which ones would work best for my application.

Thanks Rick
Sam

Let's not forget that 3M sells that tube to walmart for $2.00 (just guessing)because they order 200 times what Rick does. If you buy in volume you get a better wholsale price. I don't think making a profit is gouging. We really can't make a judgement unless we knopw what they are paying before mark-up. However as atated before we can choose where to shop. I personally will pay a little more to stay the @$#$$ out of a Walmart. Not to say that I don't want a good price, but loyalty has its place. Walmart also couldn't care less about sailors. I like to try to support those who support our sport. I'm not a big fan of West Marine but Jake is right sometimes they are the most convenient.

Thanks for understanding my plight. Now that I know I could get 5200 for $5 and retail it at $6.50, I will NOT change suppliers. My supplier stores the stuff in his warehouse, and ships it to whomsoever orders it through our store.
This store has no warehouse, nor does it stock any items, other than our own videos, books and vhs tapes -- stuff we produce.
Selling 5200 is not a profitable thing to do, when you have Home Depot, Lowes and Walmart.
What our store DOES offer is over 6000 items in one place from over 30 suppliers that drop ship. That means you can get almost anything you want at one place, with one-stop shopping that has the items delivered to your door within a few days, without checkout lines and dumb checkout clerks that won't talk to you or even look you in the eye.
Selling 5200 is only a convenience as a "Oh, by way, I need..."
As are many of the products we sell. Most of the small stuff we barely break even.
We do well on trampolines because we have four suppliers and are adding another.., so we have a strong market position for tramps.
So, back to 5200, I don't intend to go to Walmart and buy a case of the stuff to sit in my office until someone buys one tube. (I belive we have only sold a few over the past year) At that rate, I really ought to go public with my stock. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
By the way, I really do appreciate the folks that do use the store -- it is one of the only ways this site is being paid for. And running this site has not been cheap.
Again, Thanks,
Rick

I also agree that stores are allowed to make a fair profit, but why can
Ace hardware sell Marine Tex for $8.00 and West Marine charge $17.00 for the same size. A fair profit is one thing but gouging is another.

Until you know what a retailer pays for his product claiming gouging is not playing fair. Again, if you are at WM and don't want to pay the $17 get back in your car and go find somewhere that sells it cheaper. Its called free enterprise! Heck, open your own store and give it away!

STORY::: A gentleman once told me that my prices were wayyy too high! Said I was gouging the customers. (sound familiar?). So he opened his own business... good for him. He "gave" away his product for about a year then ran out of money. We've been doing this for almost 40 years now. Lots of repeat customers. You can't do that without being fair!

Just my .02

BTW, its nice to just order what you need from Rick. Maybe not the cheapest but you get good advise on what works and not too much driving to do! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Even if your dog eats your new main sheets!

Clayton

5 bucks for 5200? check the expiry date dood.

Rick, good for you on keeping the same vendor/warehouse!!!!

In the last 6 years that I have been in IT, as a purchaser, I have found that there is a huge value in finding a good vendor and sticking with them. Yea, sometimes I could get the same hardware for a few $$$ less elsewhere, but there have been plenty of times that my account rep has pointed out that a better item that I was looking at was being discounted, saving me some real $$$s.

Keep up the good work!!

Free markets work this way, but one is tempted to cap prices somehow. The problem is the incompatibility between price controls and free markets.

Once I visited a banker who was reading an ancient book (the Talmud) and asked him what part deserved attention during working hours. The text gives a clue on how to regulate this type of situation. It was something like this:

"You shall not markup over X% when trading with strangers and Y% when trading with your own people. Reduce the markup by Z% if the goods are purchased locally".

The concept is to cap the markup percentage (not prices), set as a function of the value added.

- When selling to your own comunity, the markup needs to be lower in an attempt to reduce social inbalance in the neighborhood.
- When just buying and selling with no added value, the markup has to be lower.
- When importing, manufacturing, transporting, fractioning or adding value in other ways, the markup can be higher.

There are many complications, it is not simple, nor easy to enforce, but if some type of regulation is to be enforced, I guess it should be along this lines.

All the best,

Of course what we all really need to be doing is sending the work to China, we can pay them less than 10% of our workers, and no benefits, then import the product, sell it here for a much larger profit. So what if the Chinees product is crap? I'm guessing they can put together some kind of a 5200 like product for about 10 cents a tube, it might not work, but hey, what do you expect for only $1 a tube? I think they call it Tooth Paste! Welcome to the WalMart world of business! Yes, it's cheap, but you usually get what you pay for...

More to the topic, if you need something RIGHT NOW, you may be willing to pay more for that, and that is why West Marine can charge a premium for some of their items, they have them there right now, on the shelf, ready to go. You pay for that convienience. And if you want to compare Harken Blocks, they have a wall full of them, you can look at them all up close, make a better decision than you can looking on line, but again, you will pay a premium for that. Same with most of their other products.

I don't mind paying that premium if it is something I need RIGHT NOW, (like when I busted something at a regatta and I need to replace it now, or go home) or if they have a good selection I can put my hands on, so I'm sure I bought the right thing. Maybe I'll see something else that might work better.

I would not call West Marine's pricing a Scam, but know that when you go in, you might pay more. But you won't have to wait for it, or pay shipping charges either, and as soon as you get back to your boat you can fix it and go sailing!

So.... that would make you a "pimp", would it not? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Now I'm Tellin' Momma!!!!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

You gonna be in trouble now!

Clayton

Sounds like the folks at 3M needs to start a campaign like
Miller High Life and start taking back inventory from the
'gougers' Rick White notwithstanding...!

Spoken like someone that has no idea how a retail business runs... Interesting how you use Ricks "free" site to knock what he does without knowing "how" he manages to do it. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Maybe the "Aisa" has a free site to go along with their cheap products! Ever try talking to support personnel that speaks a different language than you? Hope you get what you order!

C

Correct. Immediate availabilty, many alternatives to compare, possibility to touch, feel, smell and hear the product and geographic proximity are features that add value to the merchandise. Their West Advisor also adds value: pre-purchase advice.

A block may be worth more to you in a store next door than in an online store in certain circumstances. But those things are relative. If you are not in a hurry and already know what you want, an online store may add more value: no need to drive, no lines, delivery to your front door...

It is difficult to determine how much value is actually added to goods by a merchant. Ultimately, the market determines what is fair or unfair. A regulation could increase the effectiveness of this process, but at the cost of more government intervention.

Conclusion: I favor markup regulation only under a fair government. But as a second thought, this probably means "almost never"...

Looking to save a few bucks on trailer components? Check out this site.

I just replaced the drum brakes on my stink potter trailer with Tiedown Stainless disc brakes and save over $100 over West Marine.

http://www.championtrailers.com/

I have never been a willing west marine customer, but my friends say there has been a loss of knowledgeable people working there. They are probably reducing wages, which is a good way to send your stock down 27% (loose your best salesmen).

Matt

I don't prefer fast food as my lunch choice, but if they are located at the corner when my stomach says "eat", it will most likely be where I stop.

Kind of the same thing when shopping for marine products. If something breaks at a regatta, and a chain store is nearby, they'll be taking my cash for replacement parts.

I will give Kudos to Rick Bliss, who used to have the "N20 Store On Wheels" at select events (Tybee 500), and the convenience, expertise, and pricing were outstanding and worth any margin he wished to charge.

In defense of West Marine. Let's not forget the good they do. West Marine provides a $25 discount coupon to all US SAILING members on any purchase of $100 or more, each year. Of course, all you US SAILING Members were aware of this membership benefit. This is also good during their many sales. One of my favorites is the West Marine Men's Performance Boat Mocs, very comfortable, often on sale at about half the price of the similar Sperry Top-Sider.

But, as with any store in up to the customer.

Caleb

West Marine is also the presenting sponsor of US Sailing's Junior Olympic Sailing Festival program, and has been since the program started in 1997. Since then 21,000 junior sailors (up to age 21) have participated in these events that are hosted by clubs and community sailing programs around the country. This year alone, 4,500 juniors were expected to participate in 24 JO's. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

How much is your time worth? When you need it "now" is it really more economical to make a special trip to Wal-Mart?

In my town Wally World is 7 miles away from the coast, West marine is about 1/4 mile from the water. So you saved $5 on your tube of 5200... I would spend an extra hour to get there and back... burned $5 of extra gas... nine times out of ten they don't have what you really wanted in the first place and you have to settle for a item you normally wouldn't buy. They don't have staff that can help you make a selection, or even find anything… and then you get the privilege of standing in a check out line for 5-10 min. As opposed to West Marine where you go in… they take you right to the part you want…which is in stock…check you out without waiting in line forever, and have you out enjoying your boat again instead of coming back empty handed after a 1 hr race across town to “save” money.

When have you seen anything in the way of marine hardware at a Wally World that you would really be confident having on your boat?

So you want West Marine to stock all the low turn over parts that the sailing community needs to keep their boats on the water but your going to "save money" at Wally world on the items that West Marine needs to sell to help keep the doors open…...Am I the only one who sees the insanity in this?

If you have to make a special trip to discount store miles out of your way, all you have done it take the profit away from West Marine and handed it to the automotive industries and oil companies. After factoring in the ware and tear on your car, the extra gas you spend, and your time...it has cost you money, not saved you money. Those that own a business can clearly see this, those who approach the situation from a non business owners point of view won’t. The numbers don’t lie.

There are a great many more Walmarts than there are West Marine stores. In my town there are 3 Walmarts but the nearest West Marine is 60 miles away. Guess where I will go for 5200. I go to West Marine for marine materials that are not available closer. I buy S/S fasteners from an industrial fastener 2 miles away at 1/10 the price of Lowes or West Marine. West Marine is a great store but I use it for what it is - a high priced specialty store. Walmart does sell some marine equipment. I once bought bumpers (for my Cape Cod catboat not my Hobie) on sale for $2 apiece. They are not only the same quality but the same make as in marine stores.

Supply and demand will eventually work. Those items that are overpriced in West Marine will likely not be sold and the price reduced as needed to move them.

Howard