symmetrical vs asymmetrical?

Well, I've been trying to educate myself as much as possible regarding spinnakers, and I'm still wondering whether I should be looking for a symmetrical or asymmetrical for a smaller cat. Which do most cats sail, and what are the advantages? Do they both (or neither?) provide any hull lift? I'll be sailing solo most often if that matters.

Also, what would be the optimal size to look for w/ a 22'6" mast? Just trying to obtain the right one to play around with...

Thanks!
Kevin
Trac 14

Almost all cats run asymmetric spins. So I would looke for one of those.

As for that small of a cat, I would say something around 18 feet tall or so, maybe a little more but I am no expert

One other question: What is the most common system for launching and taking down?

Most people use a snuffer for single handing but I have heard of people using a bag off the tramp, that is how all used to be done.

Still doing research... Is anyone out there sailing a symmetrical spinnaker? (I'm hearing to only look for asymmetrical, but there are some symmetricals around me pretty cheap.)

Symmetrical would be a waste of time on a catamaran, don't even bother.

The reason cats don't sail with symmetrics (or any other lighter boats) is two fold:

1. catamarans accelerate so quickly that the apparent wind moves forward quite a bit making you almost always sailing a reach. Even when sailing deep downwind, you will find your apparent is actually at 60-80 degrees off the bow. An Asymetric is cut for sailing these angles closer to the wind. Most symettrics are designed to be sailing with apparent wind angles of 90 degrees or more.

2. The other benefit of a asym on a sprit is that the sail creates more lift on the bows (longer bow sprit=more lift). Catamarans like alot of lift on the bows (helps counteract the pitching moment from the top of the main).

You combine these two conditions and it becomes quite clear that the only sail to get is an Asym. You need to resist the temptation to pick up a cheap symmetrical because in the end it would essentially be a waste of money.

Good Luck!!

The classic symetric spinnaker is designed to be used with a spinnaker pole that attaches to the mast, and you gybe the pole along with the spin, switching tack for clew on the new gybe. The Asymetrics do not switch tack and clew, they leave the tack attached to the end of the pole, and the clew is cut higher so the sheeting angle is right for a high reach, which is the point of sail you will be on most of the time, never being dead downwind, which is the only point of sail a symetical spin. would be of any use. You could try to use a symetrical spin. as an asymetric, but the sheeting angle would be all wrong and the foot might even drag in the water on a reach. You might be able to take it to a good sailmaker and get it re-cut to use it as an asymetric. You would still be better off getting a good, used, purpose built cat spin. though.

Here is a question, on the original Hobie 14 they have gone back to sailing almost straight downwind. So if someone was bored would a symemetic sail work on one of those?

put a hooter on your 14 instead

Yes, it will work on anything if you want to sail it dead downwind. It will also work on a reach, but just not as high as we usually reach, with our high apparant wind angles and all that. And the pole would have to come off the mast at about a 90 degree angle, ie. off toward the shroud (like a mono dinghy going downwind) if you want to go dead downwind, our poles are stuck straight out front so they wouldn't work.

The early Corsair F27 Trimarans used a symetrical spinnaker with a conventional pole on the mast, just like any monohull would use. Then some smart butt (Eric Arens?) put a pole on the bow and a big asymetrical spin. on it, and the rest, as they say, is history!

I just thought about that, I don't plan to do it anytime soon.

I will have a spin on my 5.2 soon so I should get to learn all about it.

Does anyone have a rigging guide on using a snuffer that they can point me to? I understand the concept but haven't seen one rigged.

http://www.gobarefootstudio.com/snu.html

Here's one of the best on the aftermarket right now.

Dumb question, but I haven't been around asymmetrical spins at all. When you gybe, how do you get an asymmetrical spinnaker to the other side? Do you have to collapse it, change course, then relaunch it? Or do you work it between the slot in front of the jib in some fashion? Having seen pictures of some large-footed asymmetrical spinnakers, it makes me wonder how the process works...

Also, I've posted a question about the size spin I need to look for on my other current posting, "Spinnaker on a 14'?". I'd love input from anyone with experience. Thanks to all who are taking the time to help!

Kevin

you just jibe it in front of the jib (between the leading edge of the spinnaker and the jib). I think some "sport" monodulls gybe the spinnaker around the front of the spinnaker - but most catamarans have stopped doing that. It's really easy.

Just make sure you put some kind of loop about 3' up on the front of mast and run bungee from corner of front crossbar thru loop and to other corner of crossbars. Put sheeets outside shrouds and bungeee. This will keep the sheets from hanging up if blocks are not on the crossbars. Mine our of the rear crossbar on tramp tracks. This keeps the sheets from getting hung up under mast. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Doug

At how many knots can you fly a spinnaker before you just get really stupid doing so? I was out in 15-20 knot winds yesterday and wondered if a spin could have worked.

A lot depends on the sea state - but you can fly a kite in 20 to 25knots and possibly more. It takes some skill and nerves to do so in the heavy stuff though.

Actually the answer to your last question was already answered (Yes). The spinnaker provides lift down wind actually making it safer (by not pitchpoling). Down wind the forces on the main will push the bows down until wind reaches the point that it turns over the boat. The spinnaker helps balance the forces so, some force is in front of mast and some behind mast, result boat rides more balanced. Also confirming, total waste of money to even consider symetrical spin. Don't even think about trying to have one cut down. Even the newer monohulls have no use for them, except in extreme conditions. For a catamaran it is the same as asking, "I am a guy, should I wear a bikini or shorts for a bathing suit?" It is just wrong!
Even a Hobie 14 will improve dramatically using a spinnaker to reach down wind. Also if you are trying to "fit" the wrong size on the boat, smaller/flatter is better than too big. Too big will be bad when trying to create apparent wind. Have fun and go for it.

So what size would you recommend (anyone?) for a 14' cat w/ 22'6" mast, 16' tang, and 5'3" of bow ahead of front crossbar? Also, is .75 oz the right weight to get for gusty days?

the correct size is a combination of mast tang height and pole length. Tigers for example run the spin bale at 26'8" on a 29'6" mast with a 12' pole. You don't want it at the top of the mast. Block placement will also be critical. I haven't seen a 14 with spin but have seen them with squaretop mains and screechers, F14. Maybe see if you can contact Dan Berger thru the F14 area, he has one.

.6 oz is pretty lightweight, I have one that is .75 oz for lighter air, and a 1.5 oz one that is my hi wind chute.

dave SC20

Why not at the top of the mast?

As I've heard, to prevent strain on the upper portion of the mast under load, especially when the main is released. Not sure how many masts have been bent or snapped, but the consensus seems to be no more than 1/3 to 1/2 the distance between tang and top of mast.