Max wind for spinnaker?

I'm wondering what the max wind is that you'd fly a spinnaker in. Also, are there any concerns in higher wind about stress on the rigging (especially the bow eyes), and is there anything to do to "soften" such stress? Just looking for ideas to not break anything! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

had my kite up in a good F6 and it was exciting = however I did chicken out and drop it before I gybed <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The old saying, you know when it is too windy for the Spinnaker, If your spinnaker is up and God takes it down, then it is too windy.

Since i literally just got my spin rigged yesterday, and I sail solo, max wind for me right now is about 10mph. Yesterday, during my test runs with the spin 7-8 was enough to fly a hull when I wanted to.

Don't be too scared of it. Just remember "if you FEEL in any kind of trouble, just bear off".

But it is best to move up in increments.

What boats are you both sailing ?

I sail a Nacra 5.2 with an Inter17 spin rig on it.

When the boat breaks something, then its too windy. If not, then you are fine.

Check out the Alter Cup pictures on http://www.floridamultihullsailor.com

They were flying the kites in 20+ knots, nothing broke.

Since my boat wasn't designed for a spin, I figure I will take it pretty easy.

I'm sailing a Trac 14 and experimenting with the spin rig. I've actually just arranged a "hooter" of sorts and want to try it out this week. I now have two different sails to experiment with, and I'm looking forward to the fun...

Oh, you are messing with a bigger can of worms than I am!
My 5.2 looks alot like the more modern boats and I have seen others who run the same rig I do.

You on the other hand...has anyone ever rigged a boat like you are doing? I saw a trac 14 once, pretty close to a hobie 14 just with more floatation right? I guess you will have a good time.

I sailed my FX One in 18+ a few times this summer. On a 26 mile distance race, 13 mile down wind. Started the run down wind at about 15 kt of wind and peaked to 20 kt.

Quite the ride the boat just flew, never had a problem with hangling. I didn't push it too hard though, crossed alot of shiping channel.

Long runs like that help in getting used to a boat. Just time on the water.

With experience, I got so I was comfortable under spin on the SC20 up to 20 kts of wind. It was really more controlable/less twitchy going downwind than upwind in these windspeeds.

Dave

Just my two cents.....

I was sailng in Charleston Harbor with our friend Super Jake. I don't know the true wind speed, but IT WAS BLOWIN'. Before racing began all the cats were out getting ready. Not too many spinnakers going up, certainly not ours. We had a 1/2 pitchpole (burying one bow) that we nearly saved, however we did not. Rich Harper put up his spin, and I remember him telling me that it gave him more control, and he felt more relaxed with it up.

These were f-18's, and I guess what I learned is that the spin can help in high winds, as the bows lift a little helping to prevent a violent pitchpole.

At the end of the day I had cracked ribs, Jake had nearly collected the insurance on a second boat and Rick stayed upright.

Not sure what that means but is still very clear to me.

As long as you can manage to go from upwind to downwind without capsizing, I think you are OK to pull the spi up. You can always stall out downwind by heading downwind. But going from upwind to downwind is the real issue in my opinion.

Gree, yes the Trac 14 has more floatation than the Hobie 14. It is currently produced in Australia as the Windrush 14--same hulls, fittings, etc., and they're experimenting with a spin on it as well. I think someone has added a hooter to it before, too, although I'm kinda on my own at the moment.

I've flown the spinnaker on the Tiger a few times in mid to high 20s, with gusts up to 30 knots. At this point you have the boards pulled half way up and are sailing deep and not trying to fly a hull. It feels reasonably controllable - I feel more scared when trying to turn down wind in those conditions.

I think the stress on the rig is less under those conditions than when you reach double trapped with a spinnaker.
Chris.

Well, you are already on your way if you have the sails already.
As I said before I just tried out the spin for the first time on Saturday. Let me tell you it really adds something to the boat. The wind was very light and normally the boat would have been a dog downwind. But when I pulled that spin up it took off.

Are you going with a snuffer system?

I genreally stop sailing between 22 and 25 knots average depending weather wetaher it is a gusty Southerly or Westerly or a constant sea breeze.

Whilst on the water, we do not shy away from the kite as I feel it steadies the boat more and makes it easier to gybe in big breeze.

Max wind I have raced with the kite is 36 knots average, gusting 42 (Recorded at the airport) on the Tornado. We held the kite for all 3 laps and went for a big swim whilst coming out of a gybe on the last lap. I became trapped under the boat and seriously thought I was going to drown. I am a little smarter from that experience and will abandon racing again if it ever reached those limits again.

My experience is that seastate is alot more important in deciding whether to fly the spi then windspeed. I sail solo and I make a point of pulling my spinnaker in any windspeed. My boat is more controllable downwind with a spi then without. Last August I finally encounter conditions were I couldn't fly it properly and I flipped it several times in row. The main problem were the very tall, steep and fast moving waves. That and a set of rudders that just stall too easily. Wind was a force 5 with gusts to 7 (20-28 knots). Other then that I have always been succesful with the hoisted spi in a blow.

Spinnakers don't add much stress to your boat. They most stress out your mast top if you don't know what you are doing with your mainsheet.

Hooter are a different matter. They can stress up your hulls significantly more.

Wouter

Certainly I agree with Tornado Alive, my experiences are that the spinnaker will help to keep the bows out of the water in stronger winds.

Only real advice is sail deeper in stronger winds

Tornado Alive: You are a wild man.
Wouter: Why do you think a hooter stresses the hulls more? I'd like to know before I take it out in high wind!! Thanks.

If you are still sailing then its not too windy for the kite !, makes life a lot easier in a blow lot less pitching and jumping about windiest I've done it was 35 knots plus on first loch ness race sailing a hurricane 5.9sx a two man boat , if the bows went in got the crew to hang on to sheet and bows would pop out again , if sheet had been dumped boat would have tripped over bows .

Reckon rig loads are much less when flying a kite , boat going much faster and doesn't stop when digging bows , remember when you slow down in windy conditions thats when Sh1t happens and rigs load up . I felt sorry for those sailing loch ness in 5.9s without kites , looked VERY wet and like sitting on a bucking bronco.

The next Loch Ness I sailed solo in a Stealth sxl and flew the kite in 30 knots , once up it was a peach coupled with wings on rudders didn't stuff bows once !

Gybing however with kites in strong winds can be interesting !!

Dont be put off by the spectacle of cats with kites in strong winds , its a lot easier than it would seem , my hat goes off to the poor sods without kites in a blow , certainly wouldn't want to go back to that . THey are the "wild Men " !

Not a snuffer, but rather a furler. I've put a wire luff into the sails I'm going to try, and they'll hopefully furl without a problem if I can get the luff straight before furling. Maybe that'll be a big "if"...

I want to go out tomorrow and try it out, but the wind has just been howling here the past day or so. I hear what everyone is saying about the spin/hooter giving more stability in high winds, and it makes sense, but I still would like to test a new rig for the first time in a little less than 20 knots! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Hooters fly with alot higher luff tensions and as such load up the hulls more. The are more like oversize jibs then like asymmetric spinnakers.

Wouter

I guess they do so upwind, but wouldn't they be about the same as a spin when reaching or running?

My experience with a Hooter on an TheMightyHobie18, and on a SC20, was that the biggest drawback of them was the difficulty furling them when it was blowing hard. To get them to furl cleanly and completely, the initial four or five revolutions have to occur with absolutely no tension on the sail. Otherwise it won't develop a large enough diameter to fully furl the rest of the sail; there's a limited amount of furling line that will fit on the furling drum, even with a tapered (to 1/8" dyneema) line. In bigger winds it's hard to blanket the hooter enough to get it started gently. It flogs, putting too much tension on the sail as it furls, creating too small an intial diameter to furl properly. I had to drop the whole mess a couple of times when the wind built to around 20. I could sail it, but I couldn't put it away! I'll be real surprised if an assym spin will furl cleanly, even in no air. Seems like the sail needs a pretty flat cut to furl.

Dave

There's an upper level wind limit???? I never knew that!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

OK, I finally had a chance to try my new hooter rig yesterday. I was wanting to take it out for the first time on a calmer day, but my day off coincided with hurricane Noel being off the other coast of Florida with resulting winds on our side, and I thought, "Why not?" (Hey, these days are where the best stories are born, right?) At any rate, it was a great shake-down of the hooter, and I'm glad to say that, in 20 knot winds with considerably stronger gusts, my mast didn't snap off and my bows didn't explode. The hulls didn't bury at all and, if anything, lifted a little. I almost flipped gybing a couple of times, but managed to finally make it back in one piece. The result is that I'm thrilled with the setup and now have confidence that I can sail it in any weather that I normally encounter. Can't wait to try it on a more moderate day now and also try a second, larger sail that I've got. One thing is certain, that kind of acceleration from a headsail is definitely addicting! Thanks to everyone for their input on the topic.

Pictures or it didn't happen!

Sorry, I would have need a waterproof camera for that one!