Sailing popularity.... What's missing?

I've been following the whole ISAF, US Sailing, NAMSA, F12, youth sailing posts and keep asking. What are we missing?

Some thoughts
Why is skate boarding, BMX , and snow boarding so popular? Why have they been asked to participate in X games or olympics?

Is it because the skate board, bike or snow board are so much cooler now? I don't think so.

It seems to be the star power of people like Tony Hawk, Matt Hoffman and Shaun White.

So maybe we have everything needed except the sales and marketing to make anyone from 6- 20 something want to be like THAT guy or girl.
The elite level sailors are already in place.
How do we make people want to "Be Like Mike" as one ad campaign said.

Thoughts????
Am I losing it?

Hey Pat, Great topic.

Due to my vested interest in this whole thing, I have been studying cat sailing trends in depth for the past 10 years.

In the 80's in So Cal I was a young punk that built a skateboard ramp and Hawk, Hosoi, Gurrero, Team Madrid and a few other skaters would come over to my "Palm Ave Ramp" and skate for about 100 kids that would spontaneously show up. This is way before Hawk was a household name. First, these guys had skills, then they went out there and skated at some punk kid's house. They just showed up, and were good about teaching kids how to do tricks. They got the marketing thing going early, they were all representing their respective shops or companies. They plastered their stickers all over the place, skated and left. Then we all tried to copy their tricks. Great marketing by the local skate shops!

One thing that I have noticed with sailing is that active dealer/builder/factory support can really boost the numbers within a fleet/division. Not to say that this is the most important factor, but from what I've seen it does help.

Supporting a local dealer and letting them know you're there and what you need would in turn inspire them to help out with funsails, racing etc.

In the world of mail-order, ebay,(both of what I do, so I'm not talking down on them) and West Marine it's difficult to establish local relationships. If the local dealer doesn't know how to get involved, or doesn't have the money to get involved in events, they won't. Events are what the public sees. I hand out a ton of business cards at every event I attend, not only to sailors, but to general passers by.

I would encourage you to talk directly with your local dealer and let them know what you need within your area or division. Flash them some cash every now and then instead of going online, you'll get some support, I guarantee. Sometimes there is no local dealer and I understand it isn't possible, but most the time it is. Get a bunch of your friends together and have a "fleet meeting" with them.

I've been running my shop since 2003, and I'll tell you it's a tough racket, we are successful only because we have the support of our local sailors. In turn, at all of our regattas here in the Santa Cruz area, Surf City has at least 2 race support boats on the water. We couldn't do it if we didn't have support from our local sailors. We have a chase boat on the water for the SCYC Aclass events whenever possible, again due to the support from the class.

I think the next issue is lack of catamaran specific "Learn to Sail" classes. There are none in CA that I know of. People just don't know how to get involved. Fleet funsails with good press and an emphasis on getting new people into it is key. We did a "Try a Hobie Day" here a few years back with the local Hobie fleet and got 3 new people on boats of their own. The effort paid off!

The third thing, is lack of a youth sailing program. I tried to talk to the local university sailing instructor about setting up a class and his response was "those things pitchpole". Not exactly the response I wanted.

I think by taking this 3 pronged approach we would be very successful, and it's doable:

1)Supporting your local cat dealer if possible, get them involved. Get them doing events just like local bike/skate shops that sponsor races and demos. It's good for publicity.

2)Get involved with your fleet/div/etc. Do 2 highly publicized "Try a Cat" days a year. Just like the skateboard and bike clubs do demos and trial rides.

3) Get some sort of youth sailing program together in partnership with your local yacht club/university etc. Compared to Skating and BMX, sailing is a little different organizationally, but if you hang out at your local BMX track there's a similar element

Lot's of specifics to be worked out.

You would almost think that there are no youth teams at all,
I shot this video during a training session from the Dutch Youth Cat Sailing team last sunday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1jGK30JnJw

There ARE youth teams and not doing so bad.

In 2001 a couple of us started a class we later called Hobie 101. The idea then was to get maybe 5 boats out and maybe we could "snatch" one or two into racing. That first class attracted 20 people in 10 boats! We were blown away. We instantly realized there was a vacuum that needed to be filled.

Our local dealer is very active. But unless you already knew you wanted to buy a boat, there wasn't any way to check out the fun of a cat...until our class came along.

Six years later we are offering Hobie 101 to standing-room-only crowds every year! This thing hasn't peaked. People are still coming out of the woodwork. Some have boats already, some are checking them out to see if they want to buy.

We spend a whole day with them. Why? Not to teach them. (I/we actually have better things to do than spend a day coaching.) It's so we can get a chance to spend some time with them building a relationship. "They don't care how much we know until they know how much we care!"

After a few years we started maxing out facilities and needed to start restricting attendance. (Is that a wierd turn of events, or what?) So we raised the price from $10 (to cover a great lunch!) to $25 and started calling it a fund raiser. We are getting 35-45 people per class. We only teach it once a year. Get this -- the fleet nets $3-500/year on a "fund raiser" designed specifically to build membership!

I could give you the numbers over the last 6 years -- they are staggering! Multihull racing in the Northwest is alive and well in no small part to Hobie 101. Jerry Valeske and Laura Sullivan and the rest of Fleet 95 teach the class nowadays. It is exciting for the attendees as well as the fleet members to see the new faces come out of the woodwork.

I approached HCA with the idea, and offered to take it nationwide. The idea was warmly received, but nothing was ever done. It seems most sailors are more interested in attending the next 25-boat regatta than investing one day a year for a 40-50 boat regatta. So maybe the problem lies with the culture -- teaching sailors you get out of it what you put into it. Dunno.

Caleb Tarleton also puts on "Fast & Fun" every year in Kirkland. Strangers can show up and ride a Wave (with a fleet member) for free for 20 min. or so. Another great introduction program.

The ideas are boundless. But unless the local sailors understand the value of investing in the ideas, they are worthless.

For more information on Hobie 101, I may be reached at nelson(dot)peter(at)comcast(dot)net.

Pat, compare the complexity and entry cost of a skate board, bike, snow board, to that of a sailboat, even an Opti, forget about the fact that anyone can skateboard in their own neighborhood or driveway even.

And Mom can send the little dickens out in the driveway for an hour, no adult supervision required, doesn't even have to stop watching the soaps, forget about driving him to the local Yacht Club, if there is one.

Sailing isn't for everyone, skateboards and bikes have are a much easier sell and enjoy broad accpetance by all parents, at nearly every income level. No so much with sailing.

To answer your question; What's missing? $50 Boats and free water access, oh, and free instruction.

Timbo where can you get a decent skateboard or BMX bike for $50.00? 7-8 years ago when my son was into skateboarding it would cost me close to $200 ever six month or less...a good skateboarder buys separate Decks, bearings, wheels and trucks...you can easily spend over $50 on each item.
The monthly cost of him being on the High School sailing team was no more per year than the skateboard itself...not counting the cost if he went to a "skate park". Parents usually find the money for what their kid really want to do.

Regards,
Bob

Yep, $40 to $50 decks lasted 3 months if I (Dad) was lucky. Let's not talk about the trips to the ER <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

highjack off

Bob, in a word, Ebay. Now, are you saying it's -as easy- to get a kid into sailing as it is to send him out in the driveway with his buddies to play Tony Hawk for an hour? Do you think they will think sailing an Opti is "cool" or "gay"? I've got 4 kids, I can tell you which one is cool. Oh, and I did spend nearly $200 on his skateboard, still 1/3 of what I spent on a beat up old Hobie 14. We live on a lake, guess which one he would rather be on?? The one his buddies are on, out there in the driveway... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

BTW, I broke two ribs showing him how to do an "Old School" Bat Turn (I think they call it an Ollie) on his new skatebord...I couldn't sail for 2 months. He still laughs about it.

Yes, I would rather all children sailed instead of BMX or Skateboard, but it's never going to happen, so let it go.

That's perfect Peter! It might be good to post your curriculum somewhere. It' might be useful for fleets/etc that want to do something similar.

Excellent stuff Jeremy doesn't it all come down to getting them hot for sailing a cat at a young age. Once a junior sailing champion is identified in mono's they are fast tracked with a full programm which culminates in the Olympics. They already know which boat is next up the ladder on the way to their goal, they are nurtured, pampered, pics in magazines and admired by their young friends. What doe's the Cat world offer this person?
regards

I think it does. The question is how.

Walk into a class room of 13 year olds with a survey asking:
Who is your favorite Skater, Rider, Ball player, NASCAR driver and I bet you will get a lot of answers.
Ask who their favorite sailor is and I'm sure they won't have one.
Maybe I'm thinking to big here but I work for a Park sytem and have sat in on a meeting with the director of ESPN outdoors and listened to how they make Bass fishing popular.
If fishing can become as popular as it is there is hope for us.
Our parking lots are full of pickup trucks with very expensive bass boats being driven by twenty something guys.
They have their favorite angler, buy the same boat and use similar equipment.

So can we get the media coverage and create the idols to make kids come home and ask to go sailing or young proffesionals to spend their money on a boat.

I once read an interview with Gary Jobson about how to get more media coverage for sailing. He talked about the extreme dificulty of getting cameras placed on the water, in the boats, following the racers, the problems with the video feed, water getting into equipment, and most of all, getting some announcers who could explain it all in layman's terms, while making it sound exciting, to an uneducated audience.

Compare the logistics of that to say the XGames Skateboarding half pipe competition, where it's indoors, they can set up 3-4 fixed cameras, maybe a helmet cam, it is self explanitory to the average 14 yr. old watching, and all the announcer has to say is, "WOW, I've NEVER seen THAT before!!"

OK, now put yourself in the President of ESPN's shoes, and tell me which one costs less to produce and which is the easier sell to your advertisers, in a word, which is going to net you (ESPN) MORE MONEY.

That's why we don't see much sailing on TV.

BTW, I did get to watch the Monsoon Cup Match Racing Championships a couple days ago, but I was in a hotel room in Seoul. It was very well done but even for an addict like me, I found it a little slow at times. After the start, the lead almost never changed. I have found much more sailing on TV when I'm outside the USA. Yet they are all speaking english, usually with a US announcer. I wonder why we can't get it on one of our 200+ cable channels?

Hurricane Paintball Catamaran 1000.

Sweet.

Now you're thinking! 10 Cats vs. 10 mono's, Capture the Flag style, on the water. Red Team vs. Blue Team, only, give them some amo they can sink the boats with! Carnage, that's what Americans want to see on TV, how else do you explain the popularity of NASCAR and the NFL?

Let's see what those A-holes at Sailing Anarchy think when all their boats are at the bottom of the bay!

I didn't say it would be easy and I could be talking out my A$$. Not the first time.

The Bass Master Elite tourney that was at one of our parks had a huge amount of on water media coverage.
My staff had to provide power,phone and internet lines for them. They use their own monster(double 40ft trailer) generator for the live broadcast and Jumbotron.

I was thinking that the courses would have to be modified to make it exciting.
Things like adding a gate in the middle of the course(not my idea)for media and spectator boats to be near. Maybe a reach to both sides of the course from the center gate and another gate at the lea end of the course. Short courses with lots of laps. Basically providing as much high speed close quarter racing as possible. Thinking X games and not blue blazer. A few crashes and pitchpoles wouldn't be all bad. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Have you seen some of that 18 Foot Skiff racing in OZ? It's unbelieveable when it comes to crashes! Very fast and exciting, with lead changes all over the place, as one after the other goes over!

When I was in my early-mid teens is when the Xgames started, and I used to watch it when ever it was on. Thing is though that sailing in 5kn winds isn't too extreme, or interesting, or fun.


You need to mix the mono's with the cats for the paintball/hurricane/sailing thing to work. I'd watch that.

The bigger they are the harder they fall.

We have been talking about a modifed short sailing course with film boat in the middle for the next version of the WWF (World Wave Federation).

The key is big wind, 25+. To make this work you can use a surfing type format where there is a range of dates for the event.

This weekend (possibly) we will be covering a kiteboarding race from Jupitor to Ft Lauderdale. They need decent wind from the north, and have a 72, 48, and 24 hour notice if they are a go. If not, they go to the next weekend.

Oh yeah, 25+ and possibly at night, with glowsticks.

Pat mentions the high profile personalities which drive some sports (skateboards and fishing)

Perhaps the way to look at the elite catamaran racing after the Olymics will be to look at the pro and semi pro series (think pro beach volleyball) I am thinking of Herbie Derkson's ISHARES cup on the extreme 40 cats coupled to the extreme 20 foot cat series.

Consider an event that comes around once every two years in your neck of the world on normal boats that allow you to race these pro's . Would you show up to race against the big names.... Sure! Take a look at the A class worlds.... a huge factor in getting a hundred boats on the line was US A class sailors coming out of the woodwork to compete against the big names (well actually just to start on the same line... BUT these are exactly like the guys who take a shot at the beach volleyball pro's when the circuit comes to town.)

If you are able to market the personalities along with the sport, and throw in the local hook...aka Click and Clack of the Chesapeakes trying to take on Goliath...Mitch Booth and XXX. It would be an event. Certainly, much more likely to appeal to kids in sailing programs then America's cup racing.

A privately owned circuit could be very succesful with the right model... Corinthian sailing is out... In would be Nascar married to reality TV ... (some underhanded BS, physical pushing and shoving, sex, infidelity, all sorts of BS)... all aspects serving to create the morality play we watch in almost every sport AND we have reasons to wear bathing suits.

Who knows... a good dictator might be be a lot better for the sport then the Corinthian quasi democracy we observed screwing up at ISAF. The sport needs role models and they need a stage on which to perform... The olympics could be gone by this fall... We need a plan B to get us to 2016 and another possible Olympic stage.

My notion is compeltely disgusting ...but might have a nugget worth using.

Huh what ? did somebody call my name ?!


Wouter

Now THAT was funny! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I don't think there's a magic bullet, Pat, but potentially lots of opportunities. I think it requires people who are willing to work hard and risk failure in efforts to promote the sport in a wide range of ways and also a way to connect these people - so they can work together where that's appropriate but also so they can learn from the experiences and ideas of others. Some of the suggestions I've made to Rick are aimed at this.

Ditto, Gotta throw a bone for that one.

I like what WWF is doing.

Mark, I like your idea, and I heard Hulk Hogan is available and looking for crew! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The name is aristocracy. Democracy is just the way it looks in the surface.

It is the same people at ISAF's council most of the time. Since the rules allow the council to burn all advice coming from democratic processes, the same people are deciding whatever they want whenever they want.

ISAF is an aristocracy poorly disguised as democracy.

I think the majority of what's missing in sailing popularity is obviouslly getting people on the water, hiking out on a cat. Or to simplify it even further, informing people about what cat sailing is. I know I'm speaking from limited experience and a geographically minimal opinion, but I know that myself and most of the people I knew growing up in high school, 30 min away from a lake and 1 1/2 hr. from the beach, had no idea what a catamaran was. Other than the fact that it is a twin hulled boat. I'd of likely never gotten into it if my dad hadn't sailed them before I was born and a buddy's dad had my future boat sitting in his driveway. I think having lively representatives to look up to and strive to perform like, such as skateboarders, snowboarders, etc. is definately something that needs to happen, but I think it is less important now than getting people informed is. Sailing popularity is more or less dependent on geographic location. I'm sure those that grew up on the water know all about cats, but those such as myself who are more or less inland don't see or hear about them as often.

Then there are things such as cost. Sailing, even old, used boat sailing isn't exactly easy on the pocket. You have to get a boat, drive to a location (don't get me started on gas prices), buy parts, buy gear. I understand this is no different than any other sport but when you talk about sailing your talking about more dough. Then there's those who may want to do it but don't have a license. They are dependant on their parents to get them into it, as well as get them to sailing locations. How long do you think a 13 year old will keep his/her interest in sailing if they only get to go a handful of times a year.

In a way sailing takes much more dedication than many of the more popular sports. Don't get me wrong, I think the dedication in sailors is something all athelets should strive for, but it is far easier to grab your board and go than it is to set up your cat for sailing. I personally wouldn't trade it for anything. I tried skating, but didn't like spending so much time on my butt.

Ultimately I think it relies on people actually seeing cats in action. It's hard to become interested in something you've never seen. Maybe you Cali guys can hook up those kids on The Hills with some cats. J/K.

Wouter as Dictator. Id watch that.

A coliseum setting with pitfalls and booby traps while Wouter oversees everything with his staff providing the thumbs up or down.
Now we are getting somewhere with the outside the box thinking.

I'm a fan of old sayings.
A couple that come to mind are:
If you do what you have always done, you get what you have always gotten.

The other that is more toward the sales and marketing aspect of this is:
It's not who you know, it's who knows you.
It seems that there are just not enough people in the right places that know or care about catamarans.

There are already local programs doing a great job.
How do we get those one hundred kids, or young adults that Jeremy mentioned to seek out their local club or dealer.
I'm thinking SI, ESPN the magazine, People, US, Time

How can we get Hannah Montana on a catamaran?

If I'm being a little mental, it's because we already have a bunch of snow and mine brain may be numb. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

"How can we get Hannah Montana on a catamaran?"

Get Disney on board and watch small catamarans go ballistic... One boat with different graphics...A Hannah Montana Model....A Johnny Tsunami Model...A high School Musical model...A Zach and Coty Model...a Raven Model...the possibilities are endless...LOL

Regards,
Bob

You mean like the Walt Disney World Regatta that was held for a number of years in the mid 70's?:

We are isolated from our communities. We need to join them. This is one good way to do it.

http://www.hospiceregattas.org/

The Hell's Kitchen version of sailing, with Wouter as the Gordon "F-ing" Ramsey of the water <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Get Johnny Depp on a cat, Pirates of the Caribean on cats! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

It seems like this same question gets asked every few months, how to increase sailing's popularity? I think sailing just has too many elements against it to ever be popular with the masses (BMX/Skateboard level).

I've taken my 20 something friends out on my hobie in 20+ knots of wind. They've all had a blast, they said it was fun, they've even asked what it cost for a used boat. None of them have bought a boat.

Sailing is expensive, period. You can go to walmart and buy your kid a cheap bike. He may get made fun of, but he'll still have a bike. How many americans would rather own a used hobie cat over their 52" plasma HD TV?

Sailing is difficult. It's not intuitive and it takes a long time to be confident enough to be able to go out and come back in one piece.

Sailing requires a lot logistically. Unless you live right on the water, sailing requires travel, set-up, and generally is a full day activity minimum. Most people aren't willing to make that kind of commitment. I have a friend who's "an avid skier" I think he skis about 2 or 3 times a year.

I would say, however, that products like the Hobie Wave are probably the best bet towards growing the sport.

sm

Hey Matt,

Is that you holding the trophy???

Mike

I think thats Woot in the stripes.

Nahh . . that kid's too young. I was 16 when that picture was taken.

But I had already been sailing a H-16 for four years. Jeezus, I'm old.

Fast and Fun, see http://www.ussailing.org/multihull/fast&fun.htm

It is still alive and growing in Seattle, and many other locations. You can use your own boats and sailors to put on this free outreach program. Try it, and you will be surprised at the results.

Caleb Tarleton
Sail Sand Point
www.sailsandpoint.org

Time is the problem.

I did not read the enire thread, butt, part of the issue is easy access to water that is big enough to sail on, getting the boat to the water, and the setting up, breaking down, getting back home and then cleaning up.

In todays world, it is hard to fit this in between cheerleading, football, soccer, blah, blah, blah.

I spend 4 -6 hours each weekend at the local field, cutting into my sailing schedule. Sailing is not sustainable for the long haul unless the the "whole family" supports sailing or Yacht Club life.

BMX, skating are readily available and do not take any time or logistics.

My .02

See ya'll at Steeplechase.

I also forgot to mention in my earlier post about weather. Sailing, as we all know, requires the right kind of weather. A perfect day to us means that it is windy. A perfect day to any of the other sports mentioned means it's not raining. Sailing is a pretty conditional sport. I know I don't tend to go when the reports aren't calling for winds over 10mph, and I actually like sailing in low winds to some degree. Granted, I'd much rather it be blowing 20 or more. There are just so many factors to consider. But don't get me wrong, I wish that sailing was far more popular than it is. I think we just have to be happy with what we have and that we all need to keep doing what we can to help people get hooked on sailing the way we are. I know I already have two friends that are having me look out for deals on boats for them. It's so great when that friend that doesn't have a boat gives you a call to ask you when the next time you plan on going out is. This is really a tough one.

The most important things are time and availibility!!! Spend some time done at the local beach/yacht club. I've placed my H-18mag at my yacht club right in front of the sailing school and made it availible to the kids to try. Three of the kids from the YC's Laser Racing Team took the challange, two hours later they had to send the YC's whaler after them as they just stayed off the club zipping back and forth but would not come to the beach!!! The kids came in with smiles from ear to ear, the sailing school director ( who races Lightings) walked around muttering " they've been turned to the Dark Side .... damn catamarans" We have had a good laugh laughing about it but we both agree that the secret is to get the kids out on the water in positions of control. So my boat sits there with an extra set of old sails for the kids to use, there have been days I just let them take it and have fun while I hang on the beach. Four of the kids flipped my boat on Labor Day and a their parents were out on a powerboat nearby, the parents came by, circled, took pictures, waved and left. The pictures were posted on the YC's website for all to see!!!They (the parents) sailed a Hobie 16 when dating!!! We have used those pictures too great advantage!!! Blackmail is so .... rewarding. Next year we hope to have a couple more cats for the kids to sail.

Look at the bright side…with the population growing… water access becoming scarcer...longer lines at launch sites… as the PWC invade traditional catamaran launching areas…less sailors mean less crowds and the aggravation that goes with it. I bet you guy are trying to get more people to buy cars and get on your road to work at rush hour too…LOL

Regards,
Bob

Take a look at the less than lukewarm discussion of a trans-atlantic record attempt on a beachcat in the thread Sailing in comfort, and you know what is wrong with us.

I think that is a bad example. Their website and communication is mainly in french, and that is probably the cause. If I do a website in norwegian, I dont expect much interest from those outside scandinavia who understands whats on the site.

You have a point there, but there haven't even been posts from people who have visited the site, couldn't understand what was going on and asked others about it. Over at Sailing Anarchy, one of the anarchists is translating Francis Joyons updates, because peple wanted to know and he felt called to the task. Even the attempt we're talking about here got more attention than here.

I think the userbase of sailinganarchy is a lot larger than on catsailor.com.
I understand what you say, but people need to be extremely interested to go asking for help translating. I still think the example isn't very good or symptomatic for what this thread is about. Just look at how some threads here really take off, while others which I personally find highly interesting just get 10-15 posts. We are all different, and generating interest isn't straight forward. Just look at all the failed multi-million dollar movie productions. If generating interest was an exact and well known science, MGM &co would not throw millions out the window on failed movies. This is largely about psychology, which is rather a black art except for the guiding principles.

Of course not everybody is interested in everything. But when I say in a convent hey, guys (or girls in case of a nunnery) I've got news about the Pope, I'd expect an interested audience.

Affordable and Cool

At the root of it a skate board, snow board or BMX bike are all very affordable and COOL. We have affordable catamarans out there (not quite as cheap as a BMX bike) but those boats are bashed by the more experienced sailors and relegated to the un-cool. That's a deal breaker for kids. Being cool is obviously a central theme for a 15 year old.

The monohull guys have it right. A Laser is cool AND affordable. Guess what, there are tons of kids sailing them. Even the Opti kids consider themselves cool (300+ boats at regattas all over the country). Cool doesn't have anything to do with the actual equipment it's just a function of the culture surrounding it. Now as soon as a kid gets into a Hobie 16 or a Wave or a Bravo some A-hole has got to tell him how un-cool it is. Deal breaker.

What's really un-cool is having a brand new hotsh*t16, that mom and dad spent 15 grand on, and having to race by yourself. We need a culture shift and we could take a lesson from the monohull guys. Sailing is popular. If you go down to Sail Newport and try and get your kid on the waiting list for summer sailing lessons you will see what I'm talking about. Catamaran sailing has some work to do.

So, if you say a H16 is uncool you're an A-hole, whereas if you say an F16 is uncool you're helping the sport. Got it.

If Hobie made a hotsh*t16 would that be cool or uncool?

Who said anything about F16's? I's ALL cool so long as you can get a race off!
This is exactly my point. You've got to get away from the bash fest. Time to move forward instead of shooting yourself in the foot.

humm,

We have had the Hobie wave and other "cool" hobie small boats for many many years now. Apart from the fleet fromed around Ricks efforts we have no succes with these boats anywhere in the world.

And before anybody starts singing praise about the Dragoon, that is a GLASS fibre boat that is raced in France and some in UK and that isn't cheap either.

But I guess anybody who points this out is just a A-hole. probably suffering from some kind of irrational and fanatical hatred for anything hobie (except the Tiger F18 and FX-one and other "un-cool" modern Hobie boats).

Well something like that anyway.

If we just all submit ourselves to the Hobie God of catsaling then everything will be alright overnight.

By they way, why did Hobie feel the need to design no less then 8 different small (youth) boats inside 10 years ? ( http://www.hobie-cat.net/site_gb/?produits,produits )

Hobie Advance
Hobie Bravo
Hobie Catsy
Hobie Teddy
Hobie Twixxy
Hobie Wave
Hobie Maxx
Hobie Dragoon

Come to think of it, why did hobie Corp design the FX-one if everything was just a O.K. with the H16 ?

I guess Hobie corp doesn't need to play by the same rules as the rest of the world right ?

If non-hobie sailors make a new class then it only takes away from "succesful" hobie classes like the Wave and H16 , but when Hobie corp itself designs new boats and forms new classes that directly compete with these then everything is dandy, right ?

Or something like that anyway.

Wouter

Here we go again.
Good luck growing sailing on an internet forum.

And now it is US (the non hobie sailors) who need to get off the bashing !

This is getting REALLY rich !


Why don't you just ....

Wouter

Well Wouter is true to form as usual!

Ok I am a sailboat dealer and I will tell you about the customers that at least go through my front door. Customer whether experienced or not are looking for simplicity, stability, versatility, and fun. I always keep a bunch of Hobie Islands in stock because in the busy season I will sell a bunch each week, not each month but each week. I know you guys think they suck but this little trimaran has hit the market right on the head, for most of my customers.

My kids love the Islands followed by the Wave & Open Bic. My older clientele are buying Getaways, H16’s, and C22’s, and Snarks the most economical sailboat on the planet. I always have these boats in stock. I have tried tons of other model sailboats (including other catamaran manufactures) but the above is what sells and is what people at least in my area are buying. Heck every season I consistently sell Hobie 16’s (the boat on this forum that every says sucks and no one wants).

I have notices an increase of interest in sailing as the gas prices have risen. I run a sailing school for dinghy (with Wave’s and Open Bic’s), trail-able multihulls (R33), and keelboat class (C22). Sailing is our area is really growing. Our club has really grow in particular because of the Island and stable H16 and Wave crowed.

Hey SAIL, thanks for sharing your observations. Your post would be even more helpful if we knew where you are located.

Sorry, I assumed that "hotsh*t16" was code for F16. It dosen't sound nice to me.

I understood your point to be don't sail cool boats. Sail lame boats and try to convince yourself and others that they are cool. The problem is that kids are really good at seeing through that.

Sorry if my use of "lame" offends you. But any kid knows that modern, lightweight, fast things are cool and old, heavy, slow things are lame.

Wow, I usually enjoy reading contibutions from Wouter; because they always seemed to be strong opinions based on fact, and not always touting the party line.

However, this last post seems to follow the mindless rant that usually follows a passionate topic.

check out what James Robinson and club are doing on the island, fab website as well.) www.islandcatsailing.com
http://www.islandcatsailing.com/cms/index.php?section=27

We've got a very strong youth movement in the Pacific Northwest. And gaining momentum every year.
Lots of passionate people working behind the scenes to keep it alive. Working towards critical mass.
Sail Sand Point in Seattle, Wa has been expanding their youth mulithull program for years.
www.sailsandpoint.org

Just because you don't have first hand knowledge doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

That's the real strength of this forum. To inform and share.
Just my 2 cents. (worth less everyday, due to the exchange rate.)

My first post should have said Catamaran Sailing.
My thought was to provoke some outside the same old tired box thinking.

I have seen no evidence that suggests that an old heavy slow boat or a new light fast boat has anything to do with increased participation. It's never going to be about the boat. It's a people thing.IMO
The programs that Peter Nelson, Caleb and others have been doing are great. As I said earlier, the programs are in place. This was supposed to be about how to get young people to seek out those programs.

The marketing angle was what I wanted to kick around.
If any of you have ever read Jeffory Gitomer's Little Red Book of Selling he talks about how sales people complain about not being able to get phone calls returned, can't setup appointments, close a sale or get potentional new customers to call them.
His very blunt take on this is that "You Suck" and need to do things differant.

There are many sales and marketing stories that go back many years about one manufacturer vs. another and the end result is that the best sales department or marketing idea is what caused the success and not the product.
This goes back to Diamond Jim and the railroads, the Colt 45 wild west shows all the way up to Patron tequila(marketed brilliantly by a hair product guy).

So some of the earlier comments about media coverage,celebrity sailing and the WWF's plans may be useful in making young people think that what we do is cool.
Boat or people bashing of any kind will take us no where.

There isn't a shortage of good designs out there.
There seems to be a lack of good advertising.

If it's not about the boat why are we so worked up about the Tornado not being in the Olympics? What about the argument that having a cool multi in the Olympics will draw more attention then a slow, old, heavy keelboat?

How come people are all excited about the Blade F12? Why isn't the Hobie Bravo good enough for them?

Multihull sailing is by definition about the boat. Otherwise we wouldn't make the distinction - we'd just be sailing.

refer to the first line in prevoius post.

Exactly. We're not just sailors, we're cat sailors. We define ourselves by the boats we sail.

You want cheap and easy to setup, sail a sunfish.

You want big fleets, sail an El Toro or whatever dingy is popular in your area.

You want comfort, sail a daysailer.

So, why is it that we were drawn to cats in the first place?

And, will ignoring that reason draw more people to cat sailing?

Rhino wrote :




Pat wrote :




I will try to keep this short.

I think, Pat makes some very good points in his last two statements.

I personally feel however that a good advertising can be maximized by the specifics of the boat. These two things are not unrelated. For example, it is alot easier to advertise a light fast boat succesfully then a slow heavy boat. That fact that in history many counterexamples are to be found it because persons associated with superior products often allow themselves to become complacent. This while the persons associated with the inferior product are well aware that they need to the message right the first time around and stay focussed; not missing a single opportunity.

The real trick is to get a good design and then make sure that the marketing is spot on and that everybody stays focussed.


Having said this I do feel that the first statement by Pat can not be succesfully defended. Afterall their are many more F18's around then Prindle 18's these days. This while fleets of P18's could contain 100's in the 80's and 90's.


The real principle is that a chosen design should sufficiently light and performant, the rest is then succesful marketing. Again, the design and marketing should work together and give eachother a good starting point.

That was the reason (among other things) that started the F12's and against the Bravo.

Now F12 has run into some trouble lately and the Bravo is claimed to sell well in USA but I haven't seen it pop up on the radar screen yet. So we'll just have to wait a little longer and see what happens.

But I admit that proper marketing and "people oriented" class building is what is often neglected, overlooked or simply regarded unimportant. Personally I'm not impressed by Hobie marketing with respect to their new models. Basically they are all failing as far as Europe is concerned. The only two doing well are H16 and Tiger, but the rest of their EU product list of 17 boats is doing surprisingly unimpressive. Maybe they sell lots of them, but we are simply not seeing them on the water.

Wouter

I believe your experience would be very usefull (and wellcome) in the F12 group. The features you mentioned are part of those of the entry level cat that 4 desigers and many other volunteers are trying to optimize. Other targets are speed, low price, safety, marketability, availability as a serial, kit or homebuilt product, and international class, among others.

Please pay a visit!

One word that I don't believe has been mentioned regarding marketing is "visibility". There's been heaps of talk about TV coverage at Olympics etc, but the principle behind this is "visibility".

It is difficult for sailing to be highly visible. Skate boarding and BMX is easy, kids rock up to school on them blah blah blah...we know how visible they are.

How do we make sailing more visible? Getting TV coverage is one very limited and difficult/expensive avenue.
There are simpler and cheaper alternatives that may be more effective.

I think the Volvo Extreme 40's are getting close to the mark, location, location, location! Am I correct in understanding that they had numerous regattas in the middle of big cities? Look at the locations for the air races, right next to big cities, over a river or lake with plenty of room for spectators.

The biggest hurdle is that most of the clubs we belong to set courses far from land because that's where the best wind and water is.

A few weeks ago I saw a school teams racing group training in a small bay near my local club with near perfect spectator viewing all around. It is about 450m wide and 500m long. I looked at them and thought, if this little bay was dredged a bit deeper closer to shore, we could get 2-3 short courses laid for teams and match racing at all tides. It would also be perfect for learn to sail courses because mum and dad can sit on the bank and watch. There's parking, public parks with seating, popular walking paths, everything you need for real-life visibility.

Instead, the club runs the teams racing and learn to sail 500-600m from shore straight off the club where there is no access for the public to watch. And the general club fleet racing is set even further offshore between 2000 and 4000m!

So, how else do we improve the visibility? Location is one way. Maybe steal another aspect of skating and riding, flashy artwork on the hulls. I'm sure there are plenty of struggling artists out there that would love a crack at it. Hobie sort of did it with their multi-coloured sails. Check out this... Airbrushed Drag Boats

Maybe we as sailors are too conservative with our sport, we think we're outlandish or on the cutting edge, but in reality all the technology we use has been thought of by someone else, even the wing keel concept was taken from aeronautical engineers designing planes. When it comes to our boats, we are, in general, very conservative.

This is a natural feeling, our boats are very expensive and loved and at the end of the day we like calm seas and steady wind because it is much easier and less punishing and the racing is more even.

Visibility is essential for popularity and an important project goal under "marketing", but not a relevant goal for the cat's design, in which we are working now. Being naturally small, a kid's cat can sail in places where bigger boats can't, closer to shore or in smaller bodies of water.

One of the many reasons why we are working on the F12 project is that kids on cats will necessarily be very visible, adding to the popularity and acceptance of the sport, increasing the number of sailors and all that follows.

In my opinion the F12 is the best long term initiative to cope with the problems multihull sailing has been facing lately.

Design and visibility go hand in hand. If it looks bad it is inherently not very visually appealing.

However visibility is not just about design, getting into the publics direct field of view is the key. Forcing them to take notice of what you have to offer is essential.

The next step is tricky for sailing though, keeping them interested. Sailing is difficult and takes effort. Without some incentive to stay, participants won't stay.

So how can we wrap these ideas up into a few catch phrases or slick words to remember for those trying to promoting sailing around the world.

A google of "marketing 101" revealed the following.

"
Marketing is more than sales. Marketing is the set of activities used to
1. get your potential customer's attention
2. motivate them to buy
3. get them to actually buy
4. get them to buy again (and again…)
"

This is EXACTLY what we are trying to achieve.

but we should re-word it such...

Marketing for sailing is...
1. get your potential sailor's attention
2. motivate them to sail
3. get them to actually sail
4. get them to sail again (and again…)

Exactly!

1-How do we get people's atention?
Showing up in the market when they start doing sports instead of when they are already formed as sailors, like today.

2-How do we motivate them to sail?
With the right entry level boat, that looks great, fast, cool, etc. Organizing sail classes supported by as many grownup classes/manufacturers/organizations as possible.

3-How do we get them to sail?
Making a boat that parents aprove (safe) and that they can afford to buy or make. It must be apropriate for the kids' weight, size and skills; simple, easy to rig, fun to sail, etc.

4-How do we get them to sail again and again?
Organizing races. Many races. kids are competitive and start racing each other immediately after learning the basic skills. The races must be from club/group level to world championship level.

[color:"red"]But we can not start without THE entry level cat.[/color]

Hobie has made several attempts to make "the" class for kids/teens, with no success so far. Their rationale is likely to be the same as ours, as well as most of their motivations.

What are we doing different and why we expect success when they are failing?
- We believe in a Formula and/or Strict One Design cat for kids, slightly over 12 ft, backed by a project plan and supported by all grownup classs and manufacturers, as opposed to a single manufacturer one design backed by a corporation.

- We believe that worldwide availability/distribution is necessary. Hobie and all builders will be welcome to build and sell it, as well as homebuilders and kit makers.

- We believe that the class must be a non-profit organization started by volunteers. This is necessary if we are to receive support from those who will benefit from its existence: the grownup classes, organizations and manufacturers.

As you said, a complete marketing program is essential. Maybe you could help the group organize this plan.

This is the only thing I have some reservations about. Racing is great fun if you're winning. Adults I think are more inclined to regard being beaten as motivation to continue working on their skills. Kids, I think, are a little more sensitive to feeling they're not as good as others and I fear may be more inclined to give up if they feel they're not near the front of the fleet.

I think we need to think a little more about the best way to emphasize how kids can have fun sailing even if they're not winning. Although we recognize the success of many junior mono classes in attracting young sailors, the experience in some places at least is that even though this may develop great abilities amongst the most successful, it doesn't necessarily lead to a high proportion of kids sticking with sailing long term. As much as we should try to emulate the successes of mono classes, we should be careful not to also repeat their mistakes.

Ideas are wellcome. I can think of some, but they are either competitive (sailing games with goals different from speed) or apropriate for older sailors only.

Throwing a ball around like in "Brandy" (ie you brand the other person with a tennis ball) is good because it teaches great boat handling when you have to come back around to get a ball in the water.

Do it in a box formed by 4 markers.

There are heaps of other excercises, just look on the net.

Let's be honest. Watching sailing ranks right up there with watching water evaporate. Same with golf. Plenty of fun to do, but boring as hell. How many youngsters have Tiger woods as a hero. I guess he does have his own video game.

This may well be true, but I'm not sure that it has to be true for all time. Technology may have a role to play in creating a much more compelling media experience.

Can I just state the obvious that I haven't seen talked about much yet?

The problem is that most of us Americans are just too FN lazy for cat sailing.

I'd really say sailing in general. Not to mention the cost involved in sailing. Something like tennis or soccer is cheaper on the amature level. Going pro in either probably costs a fortune.

a)Most people can't afford to buy a new boat.
b) Those who can't afford a new boat are too lazy to fix up a used boat.

The kids have great fun with brandy , we only have to hit the sails. They always race squirt each other throw buckets of water at each other, deliberately tip over. On quiet days they jump out to swim to other boats and try and capsize them.
My 12yr old had a birthday party yeaterday at the club 5 girls that had never been on a boat came and went out. Got talking to parents turns out one of them used to sail a 505 and is going to come to the club and sail with his daughter on my boat one day. Posted a pic of the birthday party.
regards

It can be boring as sin to watch, but so are a lot of sports. My god I hate car racing processions!

It is about being visible, ppl start asking questions and talking about it with friends.

Sailing participation isn't going to improve over-night. It is going to require a few years of patience and some careful planning.

The cost shouldn't be a concern, have you seen the price of some of the top road and mountain bikes!!! What should be developed are levels of cost for different items and not too much difference between them on the race course.

The laser would do very well for itself if they had upgradable components. Lighter and stiffer blades, better masts, better sails, and price all the available options accordingly. The current rigs should be dirt cheap (about half the cost they are now) and the top quality rigs should be about the cost of the existing rigs.

I'm assuming the current rigs are highly over-priced considering a lot of laser sailors save their legit sail for big races and buy their exact replica training sail at half the price from the local sailmaker.

PS. I think there are a fair few Tiger Woods fans and wannabes, he earns a lot of money!

If you look at the racing side of it, sailing at this level is really cheap. As a hobby its a bit spendy but still not that bad. I have friends who carry more in fishing poles when they go fishing than what I paid for my first H16. Not to mention the price of a new bass boat.

I think laziness hits it right on the head. There is a fair amount of work to set up, launch, sail, tear down, drive home, rinse/dry clean gear and do it again for most people.

I've been thinking about this, and in reality, my parents probably spent ~$4,000 per year for my brother to play select soccer, then four years of varsity soccer, and training camps. All this in hopes that he could get a college scholarship.

The only difference being that this money was spread out over time. The initial purchase of a boat is high, but maintenance is relatively cheap.

Even my cousin, who rides amature motorcross, spends $4-5K on a new bike every few years. Plus a bundle in parts or repairs. Boats last far longer.

I think that five things are hindering sailing, sailing in general. I beleive that these five things are also the five things that are hindering Rowing. I've recently started becoming involved with the administration of our Crew, and we've had similar discussions at our meetings.

1)Marketing
A)Don't see too many sailboat commercials on TV...more bass boat commercials.
B)There aren't too many sailing celebrities to bring kids in

2)Venues
A) Sailing is not a spectator sport. It's like rowing, you stand around all day just to see your kid shoot down the course in 7 minutes. Often times you only see a portion of that race because the shoreline blocks your view.
B)It often require a bit of a drive to the nearest venue.
C)Difficult media coverage.

3)Revenue
A)Communities and Schools aren't willing to support a sport that does not bring in revenue.

4)Cost
A)It's usually more of a middle to upper class sport.
Something like wrestling or football is cheaper for lower income families. Sending my brother to England for 3 weeks to play soccer was on the extreame side of noramal high school sports

5)Operational costs and event costs
A)Operational costs of a club are sky high.
B)Equipment maintenance for a club program is high.
C)Club programs require insurance, which happens to be expensive.
D) The big regattas cost a good bit to put on, granted we double our investment. Just to turn around and use it on equipment and facilities upkeep.

If anyone is interested, I can outline some of our solutions to these issues.

Interesting that golf, fishing and auto racing have all been mentioned as boring.
Those three boring(to some) televised events have a huge fan base and millions tune in to watch.

The visibility angle along with some education on whats going on could really help.
Maybe we have to get over our selves and find places to race that provide the best viewing from shore and not the best racing for us. The best people always win anyway.

The Bass Master event at one of our parks was held on a small lake that was split up into areas that each angler had to stay in for a set period of time. This gave the fans on shore the ability to see their favorites up close near shore.
This same small lake could be great to have a race on that we set the marks close to shore.
The course might have to be set poorly so that there is a mark were the people are and hopefully we are screamin reachin to it.
Maybe coordinate the exhibition race to be run during a larger event that lots of people will already be at.

Visibility: Very good addition to the discussion

No disrespect to the crowd working on youth designs.
If Hobie has built 37 1/2 new models for kids since the late 60's with little success, what are you really doing differant. I don't need the answer here as this has discussed at length many times.

(quote)Maybe we have to get over our selves and find places to race that provide the best viewing from shore and not the best racing for us.(quote)

This is a great thought but may be difficult to achieve unless done as a once or twice a year, advertised, event, because we the participants (with all best intentions) will soon tire of the close quarter racing away from the "good" water and not get over ourselves. Exciting viewing as big boats in close quarters will see crowded roundings and close finishes.

I feel from the viewing aspect, as already stated, the F12 (or some similar small cat) is the best bet. You have to be a boater to have experienced the regatta from the water, away from shore and this is a very limited audience, and how many see that as an interest, probably more of an nuisance. Small boats within breakwaters or close to shore, on a repeated basis, that's exposure.

ncik
3 and 4 have been discussed in this forum ad nauseum. You're "prey" is hooked at that point, talking to you, the ball's in your court and it's up to you to finish the deal.

1 and 2 are more difficult. A small cat close to shoreline is the best tool. People who are already milling about the water are the easiest prey. Pulling people out of their living rooms to seek out cats, because they saw it on TV? Don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. Is someone going to plunk down the dollars to put a full page F12 ad in, for instance, Outside magazine? Not even Hobie is doing it. So this all boils down to a grass roots level...again. The potential audience/sailor are those at the water.

We can take any primitive access on any shore and go from there. How simple? Like rolling up to a skate park? Pop the boat off your car top and in 5 minutes junior's on the water. That's dispelling current perceptions of sailing...old men and blazers.

Very true. I used to get lots of people milling around my jeep when I would unload my sunfish from atop the rollbar.

Mostly the Kayakers that would launch from the same beach. Perhaps we need to start offering those ooglers boat rides? I never have, but I suppose I could.

In my previous life, as a monhull racer, I never seriously considered a cat until a neighbor took me for a ride on his Hobie 20 in good wind. After an hour of double trap reaching, I was hooked! Speed is addictive. That is the only advantage cats offer over mono's. Mono's have better organizations, (fancy yacht clubs) better kid's programs, better (drier) cuddy cabins, etc. You have to want to go fast to enjoy a cat, especially a beach cat, and not be afraid to get wet.

That does not suit many of the mono sailors, you will not convert everyone, no matter what you do, there are people who are affraid of getting wet and like to sit at the yacht club and talk about sailing, rather than actually doing it.

Draw attention away from the water? Set up a cat in the parking lot
back in the New York groove

I am interested in solutions.

Add "higher cost and difficulty to obtain access to the shore due to population growth and to the disproportionately high cost of anything near the shore" (or something like that).

With regards to item C. If done right not impossible.
If you have ever seen the 18 foot skiffs media/TV coverage they appear to have resolved this issue?
Checkout http://203.149.66.70/video/f1sail_small.asp"
from http://www.f1sail.com

Yes that's really impressive, though I note that the website is "(C) 2005" and yet there is no race calendar. What actually happened to this?

Do it right? Why put in the effort? That's why we should all embrace yacht clubs. Why reinvent the wheel? Yacht clubs are set up with insurance already.



Precisely! That's why we should be putting our efforts toward rehabbing those old H14's and 16's sitting in people's yards for a couple of hundred bucks rather than coming up with a new class that will inevitably run in the $1000's. Keep sailing cats cheap and accessible.

Honestly the usable 14's are all but gone leaving the Wave as the primary entry level single hander with a rating of 92, and try finding one for less than $2K. Squirting resin in decks of 30 to 40 year old boats is the answer? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> There were a cajillion of them sold in our area and they become more scarce as every season goes by.

Yeah, my old 14 is getting bad. I have added some resin to the deck already and might have to do some more soon. I don't see that being the answer for getting kids sailing, although it did get me into it.

I too sail an old boat that I had to pump resin into. That being said, if I hadn't found a boat such as the one I have, for under a grand, no way would I be able to call myself a sailor today. I may not be a great one, but I do think I've earned my right to call myself one. Old, used boats have their place in this community. When I got my boat I was a beginning freshman in college. I saved all summer before my first semester so I could buy a boat that I had never been on, and knew little about. Granted, I did my fair share of research on them before I got one. I got it and I haven't looked back. But having said that, affordable boats are one of the things that are going to help people get involved. In my opinion, a couple of grand isn't affordable to the majority. It doesn't matter how interested I would have been, no way would my folks have spent their money to buy me a sailboat,, transport me to sailing locations, and buy gear. But I more or less live inland, it would have sounded crazy to them. If I would have had to sit around and dream of a boat that was 3-4 grand until it was in my reach, I would have likely found something else to do. Without the boat, it's kind of like saying, "you can play with the team during practice, but forget about the game". And don't take that too literally, I know a lot of people crew for those that own boats while they may not. But having your own boat, reguardless of how old, beat up, and cheap it was is an accomplishment in itself. I guess I'm just kind of ranting now, but I'm more or less agreeign with Gree and Soulcat's comments that used boats do get people into it. At least for a start. I will have a better 16 someday or maybe one of the newer classes, but without my old refurbished 16 I wouldn't be typing this now. (and keep in mind that a sailing trip for me is trailering my boat 1-2 hours one way, plus set up, then de-rigging, and trailering back 1-2 hours)(there is a lot of commitment in sailing, and for the most part those outside the box think we are crazy).

But having had my little rant, I do agree that fixing up old boats isn't the ultimate answer for increasing cat popularity. But it certainly helps.

Sure theyre $2-3000 to set up a junior starter boat now but if we dont do that what will people be buying second hand in 20 years, 60 yr old cats and we also need the current old boats to hit the water. Maybe when a kid sees the F12 on the beach and remembers grandpas H14 he will go get it and flog the kids on the F12 then the kids on the F12 will want a 14 and so on. Youve created a feeder market and a second hand boat market.
regards

You just contradicted yourself and strengthened exactly what I said. How many of us started out by sailing some old POS that we bought for cheap? Probably most. I say, go get these ratty old hunks of junk, rehab them, make them safe, and flood the market. Some dealer would sponsor such a program with cheap parts I'm sure. Work as a fleet and offer free fleet membership as sort of a hand holding service. That would boost the popularity of cat sailing. A bunch of cheap, fun, fast boats.

He just acknowledged the fact that things change.

I started in an Optimist, but want my kids to start in a cat. Not a used old cat with cronic maintenance problems and ugly in their eyes (used to better looking cats). I want a cat that makes them feel great while giving me no trouble, worries or hard work.

A cheap used H14 certainly was a great startup boat for a long time, but both the market and the kids are different now.

All the feeder boats aren't gone yet but boats in the 10 to 20 year old range sure are scarce. Thanks for putting it so susinctly Jeff. Heavy on the "if we don't then what?"

.
What does "Yacht clubs are set up with insurance already", have to do with Item C (Difficult media coverage)? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
What does "...embrace...reinvent the wheel" have to do with the subject listed as Item C (Difficult media coverage) ? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />


Item C is listed as >"C)Difficult media coverage. "<

http://203.149.66.70/video/f1sail_small.asp

I was talking about 5C in TriX's post just prior to my post:



I should have been more specific, and read more thoroughly.

Still, you trying to point out inconsistencies in my post doesn't change the meaning of what I said.

Yacht clubs have the infrastructure for putting on sailing events. Why not embrace them?

This is a great thread. Many good points, and I think one theme is that unity would help us instead of arguing over the small points. It would be great to have a famous sailor and big corporate bucks promoting our sport, but not likely to happen tomarrow. When I think back to when I started sailing, my dad did get me a sunflower (snark mono, 300 bucks, 1978) but I really didn't know how to get into racing and didn't know anyone else sailing. It took 27 more years till I could do what I really wanted to do in 1978 - race cats. I live near a small lake now, and the kids around really are interested in what I'm doing with these boats, so this is my plan. I've got a force 5, hobie 14, lone star 16, and am looking for a hobie 16, and maybe to double each boat for races (any cheap, or donated old boats are welcome). I'm then puting all these boats on the lakeside and for two hours every week, all the neighbor kids are invited (for free) to enter into the "sailing program". We'll clean the boats, set em up, learn drills, race, watch videos on rainy, calm days, etc. Our goal will be to gear up for a "real" regatta every couple of months. I don't know how all this will work out, but I know that if we don't stop to pick up the interested passerbys and give them rides, many will not know how to get into sailing, much less cat sailing, on their own. I'll let you all know how its working out...

Good on ya Catinthehat just enjoy the sailing and ignore the wankers that line up to tell you it cant be done.
regards