Quick release pins

Does anyone ouy there use a quick release pin for the forestay attachment to the bridle? Seems a little risky,but Im trying to save on breakdown and setup time.
I added a jib furler also and am thinking of using one for attaching the tack of the jib.

Oh I had one. And I can confirm that when it says quick-release, it means quick-release. As in powering up to the start line, coming ready or not, we're taking this mast down now!

I no longer have a quick-release fitting on my forestay. And I always tape the pins in all my stays before I leave the beach.

If you have the new Ronstan chain plates the quick release pins are fine. They have a second pin at the top that retains the swage in the chain plate if the primary pin comes out.

They won't make rigging and de-rigging any faster though. They are only really useful on dinghies if you want to change stay settings quickly on the water between races or while training.

A systematic approach to the task is what makes rigging and de-rigging faster.

Leave the quick pins out of your standing rigging. It's like leaving a grenade in a classroom full of 5 year olds. Eventualy someone will pull the pin. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Lee Wicklund/ Team Chums

been there, done that. Had a new crew helping me disassemble my old 5.2. I was working on the rudders as he was struggling with something up on the bow. Suddenly I heard a wooshing sound and a simultaneously muttered "uh oh" from up front. I dove out of the way as the mast came crashing down. Fortunately no damage.

Of course, a pin and ring may not cure you from this possibility.

Wrinklie (since he's always by himself and has to solicit help) uses quick pins and after stepping puts in pins w/ring dings. Of course this will be harder to do with a single forestay.

To me a couple of minutes more is worth the peace of mind. We have no quick pins on the boat we race. Now our 16 play boat has quick pins for the forestay, blocks, tiller. I try to remember to release tension on the forestay and tug on the bridle quick pin to make sure that it's secure.

Amen to that! I have a H-16. Admittedly, an easy boat to assemble. But I have it set up so you pull one or two strings and it goes up like a self-inflating blow-up doll! Hey, a blow-up doll! I better add that to my Christmas list!!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Quick pins have been known to fail, although it is rare, total reliance on them should be avoided.

This may not apply on your boat, but on my Hobie 16, I use a quick pin for the forestay, and a solid pin and ring for the jib (which becomes the forestay when rigged). Once the jib is up, I remove the quick pin from the (now) slack forestay and replace it with a solid pin and ring. When it's time to take the mast down, I switch back to the quick pin before taking down the jib.

The other option I have seen used by a top sailor is to double up on the quick pins. As long as your wires have large enough loops (thimbles?), you can fit two pins in there (you will need to insert them from opposite sides of the chain plate, since the heads are so large). This is especially helpful for side stays, since it allows you to adjust mast rake by "walking" the pins up and down the chain plates (remove one at a time and leapfrog it past the other).

Hope this helps, not the easiest thing to describe in text...

Mike

Quick pins don't usually fail, but they can easily get snagged on something and pull out, so be sure to tape them after you install them. Same goes for the standard ring-dings. I can't recall how many times I've had them snag my PFD and either rip clothes or pull straight and fall out. Now I tape everything.

Sure, it takes nearly a whole roll of $1.39 electrical tape and maybe 5 minutes, but it's worth it to not have things fall apart. Tape your knots too, especially the ones on the spinnaker pole! You know what happens when they come undone! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I've used a quick pin on my Hobie 16 forestay forever and have never had any problems. Then again, it's not under any load when sailing.

I've also used two quick pins on my Hobie 17 bridle where they attach to the hull. Again, no problems. However, in a major event, where a surprise could be really bad thing - I use standard solid pins. Same with really heavy weather.

Oh yes, forgot about the tape. Extremely important. I tape all my rings too, even if they're under the shroud covers, as they are known to ride up when you're going really fast through the water, especially if flying a hull. It's ridiculous how many people don't tape their rings, and the rings are all distorted from being snagged. Maybe that helps to keep them from coming out, but I doubt it...

I've never seen a quick pin break, but have heard of it happening. That's why I said it's rare, but not unheard of. The one thing I have noticed is that as they get older, they tend to stick, and can stick "open" which would allow them to slide back out. I think this is because something in the guts starts corroding, especially if you sail in salt water often. Rinsing in fresh water might help, but I just replace them every few years (usually when I upgrade to the next brand new boat).

Mike

This has to be one of my all time favorite Catsailor quotes!

"uh oh"

I use toggle pins for forstay, and one shroud. I do make a point of taping, as I once pulled the boat up on Cuutyhunk, only to find one shroud pin was barely holding by the toggle itself!

The problem with quick release pins is that they do. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I sail a 16 and use some quick release pins as well, however not for the forestay or shrouds, but after reading these posts I think it does make more sense to use on the forestay that the jib tack plate, which is where one of them goes. I also use them to connect the tiller, and lower block to the traveler. I use a snap shackle to connect the upper block to the boom.

Here are a few mast failure stats from my microcosm here on the central coast:

We encounter about 3 boats a year that have been dismasted due to anchor pins breaking (Most common source of rig failure).

We encounter about 2 boats a year that have a catastrophic rig failure due to quick pins unexpectedly parting (Always a shroud). We see another 2 boats from wire breaking at the interface with a rollerswage (Always check for cracks and replace at factory prescribed intervals).

We encounter about 1 boat a year with rig failure from people that make their own rigging at big box marine and the swage pulls out.

And usually every other year we will encounter a mast extrusion breaking.(Carbon masts are not included in this data)

About every 2 to 3 years a ring will pull out of the pin and someone will loose a rig.

There are a few other uncommon reasons people loose masts in the miscelaneous category:

Installed furler upside down (TheMightyHobie18). Dropped mast after loosing control of it in the parking lot (actually quite common), etc.

Moral of the story: Don't use quick pins for standing rig, change your anchor pins/ inspect chainplates, get new wires every now and then, and hang on to your rig when you're raising it.<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hope that helps.

Don't forget the dis-masting of H14's with the loose rig and not having the mast ties down to the dolphin striker.

Yeah, Karl, what's up with that? I saw pictures of the guys sailing their boats at this year's 14 NAs, and it looked more like a rodeo than a regatta! I mean, they had that mast lassoed to the dolphin striker with about 8 wraps! It was something incredible. I don't get it.

Are they sailing the rig so loose that the mast pops off the base? Why is the rig that loose?

In a capsize, yes - the rig is loose enough so that the mast can come off the step.

Because it's fast. In heavy air, you want to rake back a lot, just like a 16. On a 14, though, you go dead downwind (no tacking) so you want the mast to stand up. That's why we have those lines tied to the bridle - you pull in on that line to stand the mast up.

They are strange little boats.

Just for the record, Karl, my mast fell down becuae the bridle bolt pulled out of the hull. The halyard lashings kept the mast on the step until it was nearly horizontal.

I wasn't saying anything specific about your boat Matt. Happens all the time in heavy air. Some don't do a good job tying down the mast, others do, but it can still come out.

Excellent summary Jeremy.

I've been a "victim" of a broken shroud at a swage too. "Victim" isn't the right word, it was completely avoidable and was my fault. Why? Because I wasn't careful when I stored the wires for trailering. They would sometimes come out at a weird angle from the mast hound, and I just bungeed them without making them lay flat. This caused the wires to bend un-naturally, which eventually caused one or two strands to break, which then caused the whole thing to break while double trapped in heavy air. Not a great day, and completely avoidable...

Long before that, on a really old boat, I had a bow tang actually break. Seems they develop stress cracks/rust too...

The other caution about quick pins is if they're not exercised, the guts corrode and you can't REMOVE them. I've seen lots of folks who use quick pins on hot sticks but never take them out (seems backwards, doesn't it?). Then, one day the stick drags in the surf, fills with sand and they need to flush it. Only problem is, they can't disconnect it from the crossbar because the quick pin is frozen! Lots of hammering, hack sawing and drinking usually follows...

Mike

Thanks, Matt. Laura and I are planning to come out and do the 14 NAs next summer on Clear Lake, IA. So we gotta figure out how to sail the boat (again). (Ohhh, it's been a looong time!!) I was wondering about downwind, so you answered that one as well. And the way you described rigging the boat is what I expected, but it is good to get confirmation since I don't know what I am doing!

Oh! And if you are wondering...we'll be on separate boats! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Better get your light-air downwind technique perfected!

I may be late to jump in, but here is my 2cents...

On my TheMightyHobie18, I wanted my rigging tight, and adjusted my port side stay every time I went out (since the furling jib is limited to how tight you can pull the forestay).

After having my pins and rings catch and bend on my shorts or trap bucket all the time... and forgetting to adjust it and making "on the fly" adjustments (while underway), I switched to ALL shackles.

This was expensive and probably not all that needed.. but it gave me piece of mind, and I didn’t curse out those little rings that pop out of my hand, into the surf or sand... never to be seen again.

I also had a near disaster one time with a quick release that came out (i wont say what it attached) as I was tacking and right near a sea wall… in 15knots… my crew fought with it and was able to re-pin it at the last second…

Amazing how 1 pin can determine the life expectancy of your boat… I again switch that to a shackle and will not look back.

Interesting idea. The H16 comes with a shackle for attaching the forestay (or jib). Either way, I change that for a regular clevis pin. I don't like dropping the pin for the shackle in the sand. You can buy several clevis pins for the cost of one shackle.

Mike

I was a victim of de-masting last year in the Gulf of Mexico on my Hobie 18 when my anchor pin broke. When I went to signal my friends (all of whom were at least a ½ mile ahead of me on much faster cats) I then learned my air horn was empty.

Luckily they saw me and came back for me… We gathered my rigging and they towed me to the closest land (Caladisi Island) where I used spare G-Cat parts to anchor my port stay.

I happened to see the sailing shop guy on the beach the next day.. and told him my tale. He responded with, “Yes, Hobie’s are notorious for anchor pin falure. You should replace them every year.” I looked at him and said,” you have been working on my various Hobie’s for 8 years... now you tell me this? A day late…. Don’t ya think!!!!”


All you Hobie'ers be warned... carry spares or replace annually

Which "anchor pins" are you referring to? Do you mean the shroud anchors into the hulls? I've never seen one break, but they do like to unscrew. I have broken a bow tang (and those also like to unscrew).

Mike

Yup... the ones the shroud adjusters are connected to. I had never heard that either... until mine broke. I spoke with a few other H16'ers on the beach...they had similar experiences

Anchor Pins!!! Pay these suckers some attention or they'll make you pay attention!



The #1 source of rigging failure hands down.


Here's a few fun ones:






Shroud adjuster covers (or tape) are an important part of the ring/ pin equation.

Yep, Classic Failures!!! That is where the anchor bolts break. I think it has to do with the "threading" w/die operation in manufacturing the part due to heating of the part. Maybe they are running the die too fast and it heats up the part if not properly lubricated/cooled??? Steve Cooley's looked exactly the same at this years H-18NAs, it made a LOUD bang when his starb pin went on the starting line. I was close aboard on his port side and looked over my shoulder to see his mast laying over to me. Faster boat ... faster .... I lost one years ago when sailing with a Special Olympian on board (just after the 95' games). Looked exactly the same. Thanks for the reminder, I'll change mine.

Shackles: I installed shackles awhile ago on the bridle/hull tang point, furler adjustment rack and the shroud adjuster to anchor pin point. Install them with the pins orientated: top down or inside to outside. This way if the pins come loose they have to thread "up" or they thread "in" and fall on the boat. ... Then I got to thinking .... "CAPTIVE PINS" ... Yah, I know they are expensive but no lost pins !!! I like Wichard? brand.

I did this at first at the bridles and shrouds so I had some place to tie off a line to the boat. When being towed I tie a "bridle" to the front crossbar but I would "run-over" the tow line .... so I attach a Carbiner to the shackle and pass the towing bridle through the carbiner, this keeps the towing line "high" and you can't run over it.

I have two shackles on the furler adjustment rack, one the jib attaches to, the lowwer one I use as a turning point for the jib halyard.

The shackles at the shrouds I tie a 1/8 piece of amsteel to and run it up to the inside front corner of my magnum wings to brace the wings against forward "shock" load when trapped out, I have footstraps sewn into my wing covers so when you stuff a bow and you have you feet in the straps you can generate a large shock load.

The only place I use Quick-Pins is for my hotstick (and I always take it off when I hit the beach), and for my mainsail clew to boom attachment. I like to drop the boom when on the beach !!! Yah, I got smacked in the head, once was enough!!!

To fix a wobbly Telocat replace the clevis pins between the bridles and furler with SS 1/4"/20 x 1" mach screws (use NYLOCK nuts !!!!)

Tape any remaining pins. You can get different color elec tapes at Home Depot or Lowes !!! You can color coordinate !!!

And who says guys aren't crafty !!!

Good Luck
HarryMurphey
H-18/#9458 Fleet 54 Div 11
P-19mx/#86 CRAC

Hey guys , HELP !!! I take a long time to compose this and it "times-out" on me so I'm composing in Word. What do I need to do so I do not screw up the Forums format ??? I've got to be making people crazy: curser right ... curser left ... curser ....

In my first month owning my TheMightyHobie18, I lost my quick-pin on my boom / mainsail clewplate... it was at the worst time possible (high winds in a jibe) and almost lost the boat to a sea wall that day. Once the sail and boom aren't connected... well that like your wheels and steering wheel seperating on your car. I would suggest using a shackle at that place.

Damn you , you H-14 with you portsmouth number from hell and your down wind tactics !!!! in lite air. Danny Flannigan was killing me downwind in the YC Open events last year on the Chesapeake. Every time I crossed the rumb line going downwind, I would look back and Danny was gaining, until just before the leeward gate he would pass in front of me (on my H-18!!!) HAaaaaaaaa .....

4-5 knots of breeze he gains ... 6-8+ knots and I smoke him !!!! Blow wind Blow .... Please? ....

HarryMurphey
H-18/#9458 Fleet 54 Div 11
P-19mx/ #86 CRAC

Andrew,

I see your point .... But it HURTS getting smacked with that boom swinging back and forth !!! I've lost too many brain cells already and can not afford to lose any more through "blunt force trauma"

I use a slightly longer quick-pin so it sticks through a good inch or so, Ok? I tie, using a small dia string, the quick-pin to the boom. If it does come apart I still have the pin to re-insert, Ok?

Good Luck
HarryMurphey
H-18/#9458 Fleet 54 div 11
P-19mx/#86 CRAC

My friend, i was only relaying my experiences and "MO"
I too know why it is called a "BOOM" in the worst way.

Heck, i was on my second sail on my new Mystere 5.5 (last month) and my crew (who was once sponsored by Mystere and was showing me the "ropes") almost went to the hospital when he was "kissed" by the boom when we were beaching in 28knots (confirmed with handheld meter).

When i said i "lost" my quick-pin at the worst time... i didn't mean it poped out and couldn'd find it... i meant it poped out and my crew was battlin' to get it back in the plate before my boat smashed into the sea wall the current/wind was pushing us into. He finally was able to at the last second.... but it was close. It ALWAYS is something... and it ALWAYS is at the worst time... but that is 1/2 the adventure.... i guess!

I have little or no problems unscrewing my shackle on the beach to lower my boom when i want...

But by all means, do what works for you... this is just my method....

PS we have a few h16's with 90lbs skippers that keep us honest too!!!! Damn them!

Hey Scott,

My last name IS Murphey ... I get to live that every day, that is why I must be so vigulent against the stupid little things that break. Do you know O'Rielly's Postulate to Murphys Law??? .... Murphy was a optomist!!!

I'll try the shackle on the boom/clew next year. My outhaul line broke last year during a race and I had a "Crash-Bang Moment" as my friend says, breaking the quick-pin so I do have to buy a new one this year and tie it on.

Through I never had that pin come out, the hole in the clew traveler car is oval and slightly larger now. I was just going to drill it out to the next larger size pin.

HarryMurphey
H-18/#9458 Fleet 54 Div 11
P-19mx/#86 CRAC

The only place that I put a "push pin" shackle is at the traveler car, in between the main block and the car, and the tiller connection. Never had a problem. All other pins are ring dings and tape.