CATS for the CUP... Hooah.!!!!

From XS Racing

Sunday - December 30 2007 - 0945 PST - The Golden Gate Yacht Club (GGYC) said it will compete for the next America's Cup according to the basic rules of the Deed of Gift, and will seek to have an upcoming Court Order confirm the regatta for October 2008.

"It is time to move on and know where we stand," Russell Coutts, CEO of the club's BMW ORACLE Racing team, said. "We had hoped to negotiate a conventional regatta under the Deed's mutual consent provisions. But the Defender has made it clear to us and the America's Cup community that they will not negotiate. We are now fully committed to a multihull event in 2008.

"If we are able to win, and Valencia and Spain are supportive, we would return to a conventional America's Cup regatta in Valencia in 2011 with fair and transparent rules agreed with the challengers by mutual consent," he said.

On January 14th the New York State Supreme Court will review the Court Order to give effect to its November 27th ruling in favor of the GGYC. The club wants to have the Deed of Gift regatta as soon as possible and has asked the Court to provide for this.

The club has made a number of attempts before and since the Court's November 27th ruling to negotiate a conventional regatta, but the Defender has declined on each occasion to take up these offers.

If it happens, the swiss will benefit from financing the Hydroptére project lately: the 60 ft boat sailed over 40 knots, so the 90ft version with rigid sail will sail at...

Will they be foiled?

The C class guys just proved that foiled isnt necessarily faster around the bouys

Who says it has to be "around the buoys" I think the first AC was a drag race.

I expect to see foils in the amas if they decide to scale up the ORMA 60 tris, which is a sensible way to make a fast 90ft tri in short time.

The designers may be forced to keep it simpler than that due to time constraints, though.




If they follow the Deed, the races will be around two buoys.

Two buoys maybe, but do they have to be upwind/downwind? How about a 100 mile reach along the coast at 40+ knots?

It is set out in the deed of gift:

"All such races shall be on ocean courses, free from headlands, as follows: The first race, twenty nautical miles to windward and return; the second race an equilateral triangular race of thirty-nine nautical miles, the first side of which shall be a beat to windward; the third race (if necessary) twenty nautical miles to windward and return; and one week day shall intervene between the conclusion of one race and the starting of the next race."

1 sausage, 1 triangle, 1 sausage.

Is that the "New and Improved Deed", or the old deed that required the skipper and crew to all be from the Country of Origin, and the boats to be designed and built by the same country as the crew?

How ironic that would be if the America's Cup went to multihulls while the Olympics has eliminated them!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

That is the DOG in force - 1887, amended in 1956 and 1985. The DOG never had nationality restrictions on skipper/crew (several of the classic Defenders had almost completely foreign crews).

The DOG does require that the challenger and defender be constructed in their respective home countries. Expect legal wrangling on the definition of "constructed".

You can read the DOG yourself at http://www.americascup.com/multimedia/docs/2004/08/1092062211_deed_of_gift.pdf

No one is going to challenge Bertarelli (?) at cats. He has a proven record in them. It is a losing idea. The boats will be monos.
Relax...
Take a pill...
We are the outsiders......
celebrate that....

Don't underestimate the stupidity of people. They may fail to reach an agreement, after all. And if the situation remains as it is now, the AC will be in 90 X 90 boats, which probably means a tri - not a cat.

When it comes to trimarans that size, the French lead by far (Geronimo, Groupama, IDEC, Hydroptere, Open 60s, VPLP, etc.) followed by just a few brits (Ellen MacArthur and Nigel Irens). In the US the experience is mainly with maxi cats (Cheyenne). The Swiss, Kiwis, Aussies and South Africans have multihull experience, but at a smaller scale.

I've been following this pretty closely and I'm willing to wager on them sailing multi-hulls at this point...that is, unless Bertarelli pulls off some sort of "Hail Mary" legal maneuver. Once the new claims by the Alinghi camp are dismissed (they sound pretty darn hollow), the courts will probably dictate the time Alinghi has to meet GGYC on the water in the DoG match.

While Bertarelli certainly does have experience with multi-hulls, you would be amiss to discount the deep pockets of Ellison, the designers already hard at work, and the experience of Coutts. Alinghi is running shy on funds since loosing sponsorship and Bertarelli seems very hesitant to pour in more of his personal cash. In fact, I might not be terribly shocked if Bertarelli eventually just forfeits the cup after making Ellison spend as much as possible.

If we do get to the racing, I don't think we're going to make it to the third race as it will likely be decided in two.

Of couse, this is all a bunch of saber-rattling, we'll see what happens when it happens, BUT, one thing that jumped out at me that no one here has mentioned, why in the world would the US team return to Valencia to defend if they win a DoG regatta? They would then be the rightful owner and defender, correct? Or is there something else I'm missing?

Jake, I don't think any of the players at this level have the ego vs. common sense quotient that will let them walk away (forfeit).

Mike

I have my doubts that we will see foiling trimarans or cats because I'm not certain that a boat that size and weight can get airborne going upwind. Every picture I've seen of Hydroptere shows it on a screaming reach. Can Hydroptere beat a similar dimensioned non-foiling (but optimized) cat or tri to A mark with all those appendages in the water?

If we do get to the DoG match, two of the three courses are very long windward / leeward.

ugh. I'm confused - if we get a Dog match it will be on Cats? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I think they mean Deed Of Gift. What that means is a mystery to me. It just seems from the tone of the official announcements that the best way to muck up the AC is to sail on multihulls and then they can get back to 'proper' racing once that is out of the way.

John

Since they are not agreeing on a format... it's looking like a DOG match.

If you had to win.... No matter what .. no rules on the type of boat, etc etc ... AND for a 20 mile windward leward race.... What weapon would you bring to the fight. Your F18 would have a shot at line honors against most of the big mono's now racing.

With a race scheduled for October... You would build a big cat and go for it.
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The match that is outlined in the Deed of Gift (the document that governs "the cup") is the three race series on the boat specified by length, width, draft, and type of sail rig. This type of match is the one that is being referred to as a "DoG" match...so yes, a DoG match will be on CaTs. ;-)

I still would like to know if a foil-born craft of this size (or smaller) would have a chance against a 90' catamaran in a windward leeward.

The Moths are getting faster, but are they faster than a spin cat?

Don't forget the Moths are limited by rule to no extra appendages for foils, which is why they have only the two on board and rudder. Takes some skill to sail balanced on them. I think if you purpose built a three point foil boat, twin canting wings for lots of lift without the height and heeling moment, then yes, it could go around a course faster- even windward leeward.

Seems like the foiling boat would only be effective in certain wind conditons.

SNG gets to pick the venue, and it's not clear how far in advance of the race they have to inform GGYC of their pick.

Looks like that's a big advantage for the defender.

Foils may be lifted in unfavorable conditions - as the ORMA 60 tris do.

Good point...so a "semi-foiling" craft would be in order...aka banana boards. I keep seeing references to Hydroptere but I just don't think it would do the trick, especially if the wind got a little fluky...we ARE talking about 20 mile legs.

What is considered "unfavourable" conditions? Too light? If they're more of a hinderance than help?