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DIY

Posted By: fin.

DIY - 02/14/08 12:24 PM

Karl Brogger! You out there?

I'm thinking about remodeling my kitchen. Do you have any favorite horror stories about failed attempts? Any advice?
Posted By: JeffS

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 12:31 AM

Karl hasn't answered yet but I've done 6 now and they get better each time
I recommend you do two friends kitchens first, then your wife wont make you move except if the friends live next door. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
regards
Posted By: fin.

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 01:10 AM

There's an idea. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Redtwin

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 02:30 AM

I'm in the process of doing a bathroom right now. The kitchen was 2 years ago. I have the bathroom gutted down to studs and holes in the foundation. I will start re-doing the electrical tomorrow and then next week I will be replumbing the shower/bath. The plumber who did it originally must have been 4'6". I'm 5'9" and the shower hits me right on the sternum. Enjoy remodeling your kitchen. I think kitchens are much harder than bathrooms.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 03:16 AM

I handle just the cabinet end of the spectum. It all depends on how much you want to spend, what is salvagable and what isn't. Anytime you have to tear into the walls it's a pain. I used to watch This Old House quite frequently and laugh. People would dump just rediculous amounts of money into something that needed a can of gas and a match more than anything.

It all depends on what you want to do. "Most" of the time ripping out the current cabinetry, addind a few outlets where needed, replacing the flooring, and some of the millwork is all that is needed for a new look. Oh and appliances. Sky's the limit in that department.

Do you want more space? Is it available by removing, or moving a wall? Do you just lack storage? A good cabinet maker can come up with something to help. Most of the time the layout isn't drastically changed, just modified to something better. How many people do you know that have built a new home and had a long list of things that they wish they would have done differently? Take note of what those people say. While not all of the suggestions they have will fit or work, you may find something that is worth it.

Budget is usually the strongest determining factor on what can be done.

Stay away from box cabinets from Menards, Lowes, Home Depot etc. You can have custom cabinets built for not much more money. I know with my stuff I'm sometime less expensive than the high end box cabinets.

I use strictly plywood for the construction of the cabinet boxs themselves. Melamine is almost a third of the cost, but any water from a leaky sink and it is done.

Don't buy cabinets with either metal drawer sides, or with what is called epoxy slides. I use only self closing undermount slides made by Blum. They are the best hands down. But expensive. $27 a set!
I make only dovetail drawer boxs, using 5/8 hardwood, for the sides with a 1/4" bottom. Either birch, or Cherry ($$$$). I did a handfull of drawers out of Walnut, with a birch inlay and those were fricken sweet looking. I'm probably on the high end of the pricing for drawers, but I've typically got $40 and an hour of labour into each drawer. I charge $110 per drawer.

Doors. Blum is still the best in this department for hinges. Grass hinges aren't bad. Salice, (sah-leech-ee), are garbage. For a shaker style door I charge $40, raised panel $55.

What you choose for a specie impacts the price. I upcharge for the material. Cherry is around $4.90 bd/ft, oak $2.35. So that can add up in a hurry when ordering 500-1000 bd/ft. I use oak as a base price, but I don't discount for cheaper material, which there is very few.

Painted cabinets. I get a soft maple that is just plain ugly, but it works well for painted stuff. I get that for around $1.35 a foot. Here's a weird raping in the marketplace around here. I charge more for paint grade cabinets. Plus the painting costs more than your average stain 'n' spray. Go figure, but that's the going rate.

Not exactly on topic, but furniture I can damn near charge whatever I want. I think I charged $4500 for this desk, took me 3 days to build, and cost me about $800 to build.

Attached picture 133345-DeskFinished002.jpg
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 03:19 AM

Sorry the picture is so freakin huge. Is there anyway to scale stuff down on the forum?
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 03:24 AM

I took the picture off of the post and just left it as an attachment. Darn big file digital camera's!
Posted By: arievd

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 03:33 AM

Agree with Karl on the custom vs. boxstore cabinets. A friend of mine just got his cabinets he ordered custom from Simply Amish here in fort Myers, awesome stuff, all wood, great craftsmanship, just like Karl's stuff (though I would not mistake Karl for Amish, judging from my brief history of reading the forum!). And they were significantly cheaper than the Home Depot stuff!
Posted By: SurfCityRacing

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 04:11 AM

Hey Karl, I read your profile in the Hotline... You're only 26? Dang, you're pretty accomplished for a 26 year old! That's cool.
Posted By: Tornado

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 06:38 AM

Hey take this thread to kitchensailor.com!
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 01:14 PM

Quote
Hey Karl, I read your profile in the Hotline... You're only 26? Dang, you're pretty accomplished for a 26 year old! That's cool.


I turned 27 on monday, (2-11). I should've factored that in for the HOTLINE. Npt really accomplished, just started early. I've been doing this since 1998. I dropped out of high school earlier that year. In 2004 I struck out on my own.
Posted By: Redtwin

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 01:34 PM

Karl,
When we bought our house it was a "fixer upper". Actually the only thing I remember saying that I liked about the house were the cabinets in the kitchen. For the kitchen, I knocked out a useless section of countertop that was probably used as a breakfast bar once upon a time. All it did was close the kitchen off from the dining area. There were no appliances in the kitchen when we bought the house. We had to buy all those anyway so we got to pick what we wanted. I redid the countertops and sink. Then did a tile backsplash up to the cabinets. All the flooring was redone in the entire house. I went with 16" porcelain tile.
For the bathroom I'm considering doing a pergo (sp?) and beadboard on the walls. I have a lot of prep work to do so my wife and I have some time to decide on the design. I hated gutting it but it was a very very old bathroom. The house was built in the mid-50s. It's been a lot of work but I got a killer deal when I bought the house and it is the only way I could afford to buy a house this size in this area. It has been fun fixing it up. This is my last project before I start working on the yard.

BTW... That desk is absolutely beautiful.
Posted By: fin.

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 01:39 PM

Quote
... That desk is absolutely beautiful.


Yes indeed!
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 01:56 PM

Quote
For the bathroom I'm considering doing a pergo (sp?) and beadboard on the walls.


I'd do tile for the bathroom floors. Laminate flooring doesn't like water too much. There's no way to seal the joints and the mdf core absorbes water and just blows apart. Linoleum is still a durable inexpesive option as well.

If you do tile, go the extra little bit and put the electric grid in the floor. Tile is cold on the feet just out of the shower. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 02:02 PM

Here's a cool option for a guest bath, or a bath that doesn't need storage. The bowl sits on top of the cabinet, the tap and handles come straight out of the wall.

Attached picture 133414-Foss\'s008.jpg
Posted By: Redtwin

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 02:02 PM

That was one of my concerns about the wood/pergo floors. That is why I didn't do it in the kitchen. My wife really wanted the wood floors in kitchen. When I showed her the difference in price, she was finally convinced. I've seen kitchens and baths with wood floors. This bathroom is going to be a kids bathroom though (very wet floors) so I may be better off going with the tile. Thanks for the advice.
Posted By: palmwolfe

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 02:28 PM

Quote
Hey take this thread to kitchensailor.com!


Good Idea, this thread reminds me that I should be working on the house instead of sailing <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: fin.

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 02:31 PM

Quote
Quote
Hey take this thread to kitchensailor.com!


Good Idea, this thread reminds me that I should be working on the house instead of sailing <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


No,no,no! You should be working on the house instead of working! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Timbo

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 02:33 PM

No, you should be working on your BOAT instead of your HOUSE! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 02:35 PM

Here's a birch dovetail drawer with a cherry inlay tucked between the pins.

Attached picture 133431-Drawers008.jpg
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 02:35 PM

If you are doing tiles, make sure you put on the right membranes in the wet zones and do the job properly, or you are in a world of fungus really quick. Those tiles and the filler between them are not waterproof.
Posted By: isvflorin

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 02:43 PM

There are a lot of waterproof tile fillers on the market, however any bathroom should have the floor and wall perimeter waterproofed prior to tiling or finishing. No matter what. Also if the perimeter walls are drywall (gypsum board) then the story changes even more, and the waterproofing must be done really carefull, respecting the details provided by an architect or construction engineer, or drywall catalogue.
Posted By: Redtwin

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 03:12 PM

I'm using green board throughout and backerboard in the shower area.
Posted By: Timbo

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 03:24 PM

Karl, what's the point of the (although beautiful) cherry inlay on a draw that remains closed most of the time? Shouldn't that be on the front of the drawr instead of the side?
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 04:18 PM

Same point as having a dovetail drawer. they look cool. Back in the day, when glue was made from animal bone, the dovetail was used to add surface area for glue to adhere to. It also makes a mechanical joint, so if the glue did fail it would still hold together. Modern glues this really isn't a neccessary step, but people want dovetails because of the look. I'm the only person, (that I know of), that offers this inlay. Just something to set my products apart from the others.

This picture is of a friends house I did. Maple with cherry accents. Inlay in the center rail of the door, a small bead across the bottom of the upper cabinets, and a small piece under the crown. I need to get some different pictures the house looks much better inside with countertop, paint, and trim.

Attached picture 133454-P.A.House003.jpg
Posted By: bvining

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 04:48 PM

Seeing that we are talking construction...my architect didnt take into account the grade of the backyard when he designed my garage/addition. When the foundation guy lowered the floor 24 inches to match the driveway, I didnt realize that I was going to have 12 foot ceilings in the garage. The aha moment came yesterday as I was staring at the garage walls.....you mean I can hang my boats in the space above the garage door?

Sweet.

Attached picture 133459-IMG_6722.JPG
Posted By: isvflorin

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 06:35 PM

Bill,
Maybe he considered that and made it on purpose, maybe he knew you need boat storage space. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Joanna

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 09:35 PM

Karl your work is great!!

My big bathroom I took the floor down to the joist and put in new floor and tile. The little one only needed tile. But both look great!! Good luck with yours Rob. Hope you are taking before and after shots?!

I can't wait to tear into my kitchen. Problem is I like my kitchen but the counters are TOO low. So I figure might as well put in tile floor and redo cabinets and top. I have already redone all the plumbing in the house out to the meter just because the valve for the dishwasher was frozen shut. (Might as well since I was there) Also discovered last night that I need to run new wiring and put the frig on its own breaker. Never ending isn't it??

I try to only do house projects when the weather is too bad to sail. And it has worked so far. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: blockp

Re: DIY - 02/15/08 10:01 PM

Really like those inlays Karl. Adds a nice touch. I'll have to remember that for when we build.
Posted By: dacarls

Re: DIY - 02/18/08 03:50 AM

Does anyone know where to find a useful small ozone generator to put into my wetted, fungus-filled/repaired bathroom? I gutted up to 4 feet, dried out thoroughly, rebuilt with backerboard, but there are undoubtedly more spores behind the old vanity cabinet, etc. A couple of days of ozone blown around under & behind with a small fan should help a lot.
Maybe inside a nasty catamarn too. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: dstgean

Re: DIY - 02/18/08 05:16 AM

Off topic, but Arived--where in the fort Myers area do you sail? I get down to Sanibel about 2-4 times a year and would love to sail with someone other than a kitesurfer. Not that there's anything wrong with that... I've been sailing my wave there, but next year I'll be leaving my TheMightyHobie18 down there too. I usually put in at the causeway on sanibel although I sometimes cartop the Wave to put in at other beaches without ramps. I'll be down over easter weekend and the following week.

Oh yeah, and I renovated my kitchen about 4 years ago myself after teaching for the day. It took 4 months. The take out is what blew my budget...
Posted By: arievd

Re: DIY - 02/18/08 03:02 PM

Sent you a pm!
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