US Sailing Membership Renewal Poll

Based on the position that US Sailing took in the 2012 Olympic Equipement Selection, which resulted in the Multihull removal, are you going to renew your US Sailing membership this year?

Mike, I suggest you rephrase for accuracy:

Based on the position that the Olympic Sailing Committee took in the 2012 Olympic Events Selection, which ranked the chances of a US medal in the multihull lower than in the keelboat, are you going to renew your US Sailing membership this year?

People are still working to make it right. Quitting guarantees nothing will change.

Gentlemen,

Please Remember the Second Rule of Diplomcy: In Order to be able to effect the outcome of any negotiation first you have to be at the "table" envolved in the process of negotiating.

I just spoke to "Kate" on Monday at US Sailing, she is in-charge the Membership/Renewals. Really nice lady ... so be nice .... But ... CALL HER ... Make YOUR position known to the leadership of US Sailing!!! Our $$$$s' and membership numbers do mean/count for something! When she is able to go to her boss and say " I have ALOT of Multihullers calling and telling me that they are very displeased w/ our leadership here at US Sailing, they are all renewing their memberships, and there's alot of them, saying that; We, the multihullers are out here participating in racing sailboats, and we are coming for you, the leadership .... and we WILL make our presence known".

See our numbers .... now hear us ROOOAAAAR ...

I am going to a US SAiling Race Management Seminar at the end of March at Miles River YC. I WILL be wearing my LOUDEST BRIGHTEST Catamaran Regetta Event Shirt and I will make my presense known to the US Sailing Representatives there.

I AM A MULTIHULLER ... IGNORE ME AT YOUR OWN PERIL!!!

HarryMurphey
H18mag/#9458, Fleet54/Div11
P19mx w/spin, /#86, CRAC

John, I don't think this quite represents the whole situation. First, based on the public statements of Jim Capron and Dean Brenner, I believe this really was a US Sailing position, not just the Olympic Committee position.

But more importantly in my mind, based on explicit statements made by the US Sailing treasurer Leslie Keller, the decision was not simply about what events were most likely to yield medals on the basis of the US's actual competitiveness in those events. It was based on what US team composition they thought would be more likely to attract the greatest amount of money in donations from the sailing community at large and thus provide them with the greatest budget with which to prepare the team to compete effectively.

That's a great idea. I'm going to the same seminar at the Milwaukee YC the week after yours. I will make sure I wear something appropriate.

So the decision is based on the premius that "we can buy the medals"???

For me the Greatest moment in recent "Olympic History" happened during the Lillhammer Games when the Gold Metal Winner waited at the Finish Line for the last place competitor to finish the longest Cross-Country Skiing event. We watched as the competitor from some country in Africa struggled ... fell ... got back up ... fell again ... and again ... but he indured, percievered and struggled to the finish line ... where the gentleman from Finland (I think) waited, ignoring the pleas from the media for an interview ... The Finnishish gentleman waited and caught the gentleman from Africa as he collapsed across the finish line ... held him up and helped remove his skiis ....

TWO CHAMPIONS walked away from that FINISH LINE that day ... and it had nothing to do with metals!!!! (or money).

The pursuit of money will ultimately lead to the undermining of SPORTSMANSHIP !!! Its about sportsmanship-- then money ... NOT ... money --then sportsmanship. The order of the words is important and criticial!!!

HarryMurphey

ps: do you want to piss-off the average American ... just tell them they don't count because they are not "Rich". See what happens ...

A digression Harry, but the athletes you remember are Bjørn Dæhlie from Norway and Philip Boit of Kenya: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/winter_olympics_98/cross_country_skiing/55856.stm

Harry - you're not registered for that seminar - there's only a few more days to do so. There's only 4 people registered, so they might cancel it if they don't get enough people going.

I don't know much about the instructor (John McCarthy).

Mark - you're in for a treat. Your instructor is John Strassman, a great guy with a great sense of humor.

Good on both of you for participating in these classes. The more we show our face, the less they'll be able to ignore us.

Matt,
How about a link to the schedule for these seminar's?
Maybe some of the rest of us could attend the seminar's in our respective area's and re-enforce the "message"
PLUS, a race management seminar is a great way to invest one's time. I attended one sponsored by Hobie, and taught by PU. I learned a lot, and gained some insight as to how PU runs an event. Made sailing in a regatta where he was the PRO much more enjoyable for me.

Stephen
H-18

The seminars are listed on US SAILING's calendar on their web site.

Here's a direct link:
US SAILING Race Management Seminars

The best time to take these is in the winter. I did the Advanced RM seminar in January, taught by Tom Farquhar (the guy who literally wrote the book) at the St. Pete YC.

I know Mike Levesque just took the ARM seminar last weekend taught by Peter Reggio - he's the guy that runs the signal boat at a little event called "The America's Cup".

More or less accurate. The voting was done, not to advance the interest in yachting, but rather, based on medal chances and representation within US Sailing. That said, every rep in the world more or less acted the same way.

Therein lies the problem. The whole weakness of the current system is an inadequate ISAF vision for the youth boat selection to building interest in the sport of yachting. The system of placing 'Olympic Chances' before skill, excitement and sheer athleticism guarantees that the the international governance organizations will resort to voting for equipment with which they are most familiar or have a personal interest. In doing so, the current process takes a short view of the sport in spite of the future, as well as thumbing their nose at guidance by the IOC for coming up with a more exciting event; the selections made do little to appeal to a bigger, general Olympic spectator audience.

By analogy, in Olympic Skiing they went through a similar evolution with the Snowboard, and short track skating. However, for those sports, ultimately there was recognition that the new approaches were athletic, accessible, people liked doing it, watching it, and participating in the competition. Its hard to imagine anyone (other than the participants themselves) being captivated by a keelboat dual, let alone **two** of them in the Olympics. Furthermore, given the esoteric nature of some of the selection of moribund boat classes, a suspension of disbelief will be required (by Joe Average Olympic watcher) to understand how yachting can be 'interesting or accessible'. That's why the ISAF should have re-focused on team activites, speed and athleticism, rather than 'doing a vote'- No vision.

I am now registered for the Miles River Seminar ... does anyone know what "TIME" it starts on March 29th? I can't find a starting time listed.

To Rolf: Thank you for correcting me. I wasn't really sure what country or name of the "Gold Metal" winner. On that day Bjorn Daehlie of Norway and Philip Boit of Kenya showed the World what it is to be a OLYMPIC CHAMPION. My apologizes if I insulted anyone from Norway ... ( I would like to meet those gentlemen someday and shake their hands )

... and look at our Champions in/from the USA ... steriods ...

HarryMurphey
H18mag/#9458, Fleet54/Div11
P19mx w/spin /#86, CRAC

Harry - the seminars usually start at 8 or 9 AM. You'll get a confirmation letter in the mail.

You'll also need to order the Race Management Handbook from US SAILING. If you are taking the exam (and there's no reason why you shouldn't), you need to download the practice questions and work through them beforehand.

Hi Mark -

I agree that there have certainly been other justifications and rationales offered up in the last year regarding how decisions were made on this issue. However, at the very core, the center, the Genesis, this began with one or two individuals looking at the respective fleets and estimating the US chances of winning medals. If you think, as I do, that the reasoning was flawed, then everything that follows is irrelevant. Additional discussion regarding fundraising has been taking place, of course, though I feel it is a red herring - the premise that keelboaters will only donate to the Olympics if there is a keelboat event and that multihull sailors do not donate is (I'm sorry to be blunt) silly. If fundraisers don't capitalize on our most recent medal wins when appealing for donations, then they are missing an opportunity. Further, they now have the protracted "keelboat v. multihull" conflict to resolve - no matter who wins, someone loses and the motivations are now percieved to be something less than altruistic with regard to the health of the sport. That becomes particularly problematic during a period of stated "focus on building membership."

Which brings us to a poll like this one. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

If that is the case, why doesn't John Lovell/Charlie Ogletree's Silver carry any weight. I mean it seems to me that if we took silver on the Tornado at the last Olypics, are our chances to medal not better than say in an event where we did not medal in the past Olympics? Why can't they just add another event? I'm guessing the answer there is money. Heaven forbid we cut out an ice skating event or gymnastics event.

Collin

Well, I do NOT understand what the potential of winning medals has to do with what classes of boats are in the Olympics. The Olympics are not just about winning medals. Or ARE they? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> I thought they were about bringing competitors together from around the world and making it possible for the most possible numbers of people to participate from the most possible number of nations.

As far as sailing, isn't the important thing to make sure that all the TYPES of sailboats are included? And catamarans offer the best opportunities for gender equality, too. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

John, whether the premise you mention is silly or not I don't know - I just don't know enough about the sailing culture in the US to say. All I can tell you is what Leslie told me directly was behind the decision, which is what I've related here and in the past. If credible, I think it underscores the magnitude of the hurdle multihull sailors have to overcome to be treated equitably by US Sailing.

Mark.

Leslie is being honest with you about the reasons that were given by the Olympic Sailing Committee to the Board of Directors when they were considering the matter some 12 or 15 months ago. My assertion is that the matter of funding is "silly" because it is a rationale tailored to support a decision that was based on an altogether different line of reasoning. The biggest hurdle for multihull sailors is that too few of us are involved in the management of the sport - I expect that is because most of us would rather be out engaging in the sport rather than inside talking about it.

John, thanks for your comment. I am, perhaps like other people, a bit confused as to what the "Olympic Selection Committee" is and what it's relatonship to US Sailing is. From what I recall reading, is was US Sailing's position to get the Multi's out, and there was pressure put on other countries to go along with this.


The point of this poll is to gauge how current members will react when asked to send in their yearly renewal.

I do agree it may not be a good thing to drop a membership and that it might do more harm than good. But I don't think it guarrantee's nothing will change.

Hey Matt,

You went to Florida AND tracked me down last weekend??? WAAAAAY too much free time, dude!

Luigi (Reggio) is great fun. You always learn a lot at these events. The key is, have an open mind. The way you're used to seeing/running regattas isn't the only way, and may not always be the best way... That's the real lesson...

Mike

We had a little hijack, I guess. Yes, I will continue to join USSA.

BTW, the Race Management training is one of the many benefits of belonging to USSA. The course I attended this past weekend was at the New York Yacht Club in Newport.

Yes, I was the only multihull sailor there. Yes, I let them know I am a Hobie sailor and PRO. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mike

John, the problem has always been that we do not have enough individual catamaran sailors joining US Sailing. We have a number of catamaran classes and organizations that belong, but for some reason US Sailing seems to take individual memberships more into consideration than the organizations.

Am I wrong about that? I know it has always been a problem that people who join as individuals do not get counted as being multihull sailors because of the way the membership form is. And not enough people use the Golden Anchor program through the Multihull Council.

But why would that negate the memberships of all the catamaran classes and organizations that belong?

There is no stipulation on that poll for people who are current members as well...or rather, an option for people who aren't currently members but will join, and those who aren't current members but will not join within the next year. It assumes that everyone that votes is currently a member.

Hi Mary -

While you make a valid point about people joining, what I meant was that we don't have enough people volunteering to govern the sport. We need maybe six or eight people who are interested in volunteering, and we need the member clubs and classes that you mention to start sending reps to meetings. I know it is a tall order - local and regional level volunteers are already spending extravagant amounts of time building their fleet or club or class. Kinda hard to expect them to also go to the meetings of an organization that inspires polls about whether or not to pay dues.

Anyway... like it or not, USSA is the MNA. If we can't get enough enthusiasm to get the current racing classes represented within USSA, it is absurd to imagine that multihull sailors could somehow form a national-level breakaway organization that would take over the function of USSA. So polls like this one lead to... what?

Sorry - feeling a bit bleak tonight. Maybe its the flu.

John,
Sorry I missed what the MNA is.
SO- we multihull sailors have to "unionize", then have to beg for representation by working/volunteering within USSA.
....And choke back the thoughts that USSA is not quite like a Stalinist organization viewing multihull sailors as "mentally-ill dissenters". Hmmm.

John, I would think it is mostly a matter of money. I know Rick and I cannot afford to go to those meetings all over the country. Bless you guys who are able to do it. We need you, and we all appreciate your hard work on behalf of multihulls. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

NO, I’ve had enough of US sailing. They are worse then worthless as they are also a hindrance with their attempts to control the sport! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

That's correct...what will existing members do when asked to renew this year? That was the the question I asked.

Current vote, yes 22 and no 41. Too bad. If you do not take part, how can you expect change? And where have the 63 members been? This far exceeds the active number of Multihull Sailors that have stepped forward to help.
Caleb Tarleton

Step forward to help HOW? What is it specifically that you need help with? The words "help" and "volunteer" are so vague. I'm sure that if you tell us what needs to be done, you will get plenty of offers to do those specific jobs. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Any one in the Pacific Northwest want to "Help" or "Volunteer" with the Pothole Warm Up at Potholes reservoir. The first of our Youth Series, the kids will be out sailing Waves April 4-6.

Its just a warm up sail so there will not be any racing exaxtly, just kids out on the boats having fun.

We need beach captains to help them on and off the beach and safety boat drivers.

Show up spend half of the day volunteering and have fun. It doesn't require your whole weekend.

Thanks
If you are interested email me at
mikehensel220(at)msn(dot)com

OK, here's a way:

There will be three open positions on the One-Design Class Council Executive Committee this fall. Any one design class (including catamarans) is part of the ODCC, therefore they are eligible to sit at the table and be a part of the ODCC.

As of today, the following catamaran classes belong to US Sailing:

A Class
Corsair 28
F-16
F-18
Hobie 16
Hobie 17
Hobie 20
Hobie Tiger
Isotope
Mystere 4.3
NACRA
Reynolds 33
Shark
SL 16
Tornado
Wave

I represent the Hobie Classes on the ODCC - the rest are fair game. If you want to help, contact the ODCC Nominating Committee:

Tom Hubbell - hubbellthomas@ussailing.net
Patty Lawrence - p.lawrence@fuse.net
James Appel - JamesAppel2010@comcast.net

BTW, I sent all the contacts for the classes listed above an e-mail yesterday, requesting they give me their proxy for the meeting. Thus far, I have not received even one response. How can we effect change if we don't participate in the process?

We did not get an e-mail from you for the Wave Class.

I will continue with my USSA membership for the simple reason of supporting the MHC mission.

Check your PM's

Okay if no one else is going to ask this then I am going to.... why is a guy from Thailand saying he is not going to renew his UNITED STATES sailing association membership? US Sailing is the national governing body for sailing in the US!
Okay, maybe membership is open to those from other countries, but I think in terms of this poll, there is an incredible bias coming from other parts of the world. If he's not a member, he's putting negative propaganda into the minds who are reading this thread and voting.
That'd be like someone from Iraq telling us that the war in Iraq is wrong! Slightly different perspective.
Those who are encouraging us to step up and volunteer have the right idea! US Sailing has everything in place needed to encourage sailing, whether it be keelboats, multihulls, or etc. People like John Williams are exactly what we need, they are capitalizing on the opportunities presented by the organization. There are no other viable organizations out there with the type of resources that US Sailing provides us and the rest of the sailing community. Turning our back on the organization would be turning our back to those resources. I'd like to see some other organization come up with similar resources, it would take a tremendous effort and in my eyes would not be possible. I am not trying to start a debate, simply state my opinion which is in order to get what we want out of this organization we have to support it! If they do us wrong, we have to step up as we have and let them know! We can't always get what we want but that's life, that doesn't give you a right to give up.

Dude, take a pill!

You have no idea about the guy's details...he may be a US citizen living/stationed out side the US...yes, this does happen!

Propaganda?!?! Geez, what's wrong with raising issues to be discussed? Just 'cuz you don't like his stance doesn't make it propaganda.

I'm not a US citizen, but I am a member of US Sailing...wrap your head around that one if you can.

Can't see how an Iraqi telling the US that the invasion of their country was wrong has any bearing this discussion.

I think you took my post a little out of context.
I was trying to make a point that negative statements or positive statements for that matter should not be associated with any poll of this sort.
For one, by polling people outside the true sample you are creating an allowance for a large sample error.
Also, the bias created by people who are not truly part of the polling sample will create more of a margin for error. That was my point with the Iraq statement... it was a comparison with no direct bearing on this discussion.

Okay.. maybe my point was out of place as this is an opinion poll and thread, anyone has the right to speak up... However, I feel like there has been plenty of discussion on this subject in other threads and to discuss it in association with a poll may be affecting the results.

I did intend to create any ill will and I apologize if you took it that way.
I chose to bring up an issue to discuss just as everyone else in this thread, I did not realize the manner in which I was bringing it up would cause such a response.

anyone that is seriously trying to analyze the "sample error" of a poll on the internet needs to understand how easily these things are manipulated.

Especially with this forum software, its a simple matter of writing a 5 line script to vote 10, 100, 1000 times.

True, gathering arguements for/against the issue was not the intended purpose of this poll...but I'm OK with it.

Yes, this may affect the poll outcome to some extent...but that's OK too...if a person is sitting on the fence about the issue and reads (re-reads) the points made here, causing a shift one way or the other...that's great.

Yes, this poll is completely vunerable to sabotage...but it's just an informal measure. We're not going to change the world with it.