Smyth Tri

Anybody got any details on Randy's newest contraption?

Supposedly a rotating ama (one moves forward, one moves aft)

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21539

No. But I have a question if you wouldn't mind. It's sorta related (I'll be happy to delete this reply if it's something you'd rather not get into).

Why isn't the proa used more often?

A couple of reasons:
1. Hard to deal with steering--kick up both ways etc.
2. Tacking up narrow channels--you'd have to shunt, bear off and get on the new tack in the narow confines.
3. Not too many folks have really pushed the technology gains of other multis in this direction. Efficiency gains of the Tornado have been bankrolled by Olympic campaigns. Who would bankroll this effort?

That said, an offshore course might be an ideal spot to test the potential efficiency. Proas are best when long and slim for super narrow L/B ratios. I suppose one could get a proa of 30 feet length to weigh what a 20' cat might weigh.

Randy's entry really piques my interest in that he beat a pretty well sailed Tornado into the first checkpoint by 24 minutes. It's obviously fast--but so is Randy. It kind of reminds me of a double outrigger sailing canoe rather than the modern tri. No 2-300% amas, instead body weight hiked out like an International canoe on a rack--but with a little ama undeneath to eliminate those occasional bobbles which would make an IC sailor swim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Canoe_Hawaii.jpg

I saw a film of something similar a few years back, main exception was one ama. Looks pretty fast. Steering was the same.

A Malibu Outrigger, though, does not have to be shunted. Might be a good boat for this event.

Lots of information available if you google Malibu Outrigger.

I love it Tikipete! I have a 21' Ulua with a 128 square foot sail. It does have the coolness factor all over my TheMightyHobie18.

Dan <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

When I first saw Randy's new tri, I thought, thats interesting, a lightweight tri. But then I read that the ama's rotate around the rig, so the windward one slides back and the leeward one slides forward, and thats when I thought this thing was more interesting.

Ulua? Any pictures?

What would work for Randy Smythe might be way over my head! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Still, an outrigger/proa type seems to me very suitable for Watertribes Everglades Challenge.

Couple of points. I'm pretty sure a small boat can be shunted very, very quickly, like a crash gybe. Also, with the outrigger canoe, sometimes the sail rig is so light the crew just pick it up and move it to the opposite end of the boat. Instead of bow and stern I think the traditional reference is to "now bow" and "then bow".

W-A-AY KOOL!!

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/garyd/ulua.html

Better yet?

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/garyd/t2.html

Hey,
Stop hijacking this thread with all this kooky proa nonsense.

Bill

The actual physics of the thing, would it be similar to an old style "pitchfork" tri?

OK, so the amas move fore and aft about a center axis? That's interesting. I suppose they pivot on both beams so they remain aligned with the center hull all the time. Neat idea....run smaller amas...leeward one goes forward when reaching and downwind to give a little more buoyancy forward and allow the skipper to get further back on the windward one. Upwind, bring them out to 90 degrees for ultimate righting leverage....this is brilliant! I would love to see more.

Does anyone have any info on teh Everglads race itself? Clerly the T would kill any of the competition when sailing, but I thought this race also involved some substantial paddling/portages/shallow water. Maybe everyone just thought it did, and the speed difference sailing fast made up for the limited amount of paddling? Did our guys on the T have any special paddles etc for that part?

I know from talking to Randy there are a few low bridges where you have to demast to go under.

http://www.watertribe.com/EvergladesChallenge/EvergladesChallengeOverview.aspx

Yeah, the guy who runs it has some of the check points in places that make it hard for more common sailboats to get to. One is under a bridge 12 feet wide and 8 feet tall, and you have to start from above the high water mark on the beach, so your craft has be light enough to get into the water. I think now that the T won it, they will add more obstacles. Sailing anarchy has some video's of the race. And one shows the T finishing or at one of the check points, and they are paddling it with the mast down.

They are using regular paddles, one guy on each hull, one forward, one aft.

My understanding is that Randy's tri had a mechanism for easy fast mast dropping and raising for the bridge where as the Tornado would be a little more time consuming. This would help him stay ahead of big T.

Proas were in the Challenge in about every year except current event. We had Raptor this year. which is, arguably, tacking proa.

It is quite typical for Proa to fail apart just after Tampa Bay.
Very few made to checkpoint 1.
There was one homebuilt tacking single outrigger which made to the finish in 2003. I believe they pull ashore and place outrigger on lee side every time they needed to tack. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

There are many obstacles on the course; however it is do-able by catamaran. Prior to spectacular performance of Tornado, trip was completed on G-cat 18, Hobie Cat 16, wooden A-cat, inflatable cat in different years

Just to clear all questions about race itself.
Currently Watertribe has three races.
Everglades Challenge – the current event, from Tampa Bay to Key largo, 300 miles, 3 checkpoints plus start and finish, one week long, no portages, entire trip can be made in a boat <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Ultra Marathon – short event, day and a half, running at same time, basically trip to first checkpoint of EC
Ultimate Florida – trip around entire state of Florida, 1200 miles, includes portages. (It was cancelled this year due to drop out of competitors at last moment)
In the past Watertribe run many other races, including Lake Michigan- Lake Huron challenge, Suwannee river challenge and such.

Everglades Challenge is a flagship event and runs every year in first week of March.

Now we can get back to Randy's boat

I thought I read on the Watertribe site that it is a Gunter or Sliding Gunter rig. Archaic? Maybe not!

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/04/s/articles/gunter/index.cfm

Hey All,

I just got acess to the forum and knew it would be buzzing. I am relaxing in Key Largo after my Dad and I's finish on Tuesday night.

I talked to Randy for a short while in the campground at the EC start while he was rigging his vessel. It was a sight to behold. I would like to clarify however that while he was planning to implement a scissoring motion of the amas and beams, he was not able to work out the kinks in time and thus the boat did NOT have this feature. The idea being that when on one tack you scissor the windward ama aft and the leeward ahead moving your CG back and your center of bouancy forward....which is good.

The race was (and still is. There are about 7 still out there in florida bay with 20-25knot headwinds forecast) a really tough one this year especially for the paddlers. Winds were generally out of the south and east which is the direction you usually want to go.

Glad to see the EC is getting the word of mouth publicity it deserves. And the Tornado and Randy I think are, in large part, responsible for this. Hopefully next year we will double our entrants! sure would being the cost of the event down.

I also want to say that as someone already pointed out, the EC was traditionally dominated by paddlers and paddle sailors (class 1 and 3) and only in the lasy few years have the class 4 boats really showen what is possible. Much reverence is held however for all those who choose kayak over sailboat. It is a different race for everyone. Personally, I'd rather relax and let the wind do that work.

Alan
sailnaway.blogspot.com

The drawing with the red wing sail in the middle of that second link from Tikipete reminds me of this...it has down pulling foils to keep it stuck down to the water, and the sail flips over the A-frame to change tacks. Has a little tiny spin pole too...that's the sterns btw.

Sounds like a good race to do on the idea for a F12 I have. With the unstayed mast where the mast is build up of loose sections of alu tube interlocking. You can easily take the mast down even when on the water this way. When push comes to shoove you can remove the middle section as sail reefed that way where you only need 4.5 mtr clearance under a bridge (= 15 feet)

A 65 kg cat would paddle really fast as well, Just take a kayak "paddle" with you and you're very good to go.

Wouter

Sound O.K. , but I doubt it'll be setting any course records, hard to see how any short waterline boat could after the way the T-teams ripped it up but still made the obstacles...

Well, I couldn't stand it any longer, so I tried to change Smythe to Smyth, but I was only able to do it on the original post. Just so you all know, Randy Smyth's last name is Smyth. He's the best catamaran sailor in the world, and I couldn't let his name go on misspelled.

Sorry about the editing. BUT IT WAS JUST PLAIN WRONG!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

So get him to do an info piece on his new project. Inquiring minds wanna know!

Well, Rick and I woulda had a story, because we coulda gone to dinner with Randy and the other guys the other night down here in Key Largo, but we couldn't because Rick had another commitment. I feel bad about that, but it's one of those woulda-coulda and maybe shoulda things.

Sorry. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I didnt realize he'd been crowned best in the world, when did that happen?

I guess I should have inserted the word "arguably."

Or "one of"

I cant think of a single person who has had as much success on as many different platforms as Randy. Victories in the Worrell on several boats, olympic silver in a Tornado, won "The Race" on playstation. Championships in stilletos, corsairs, VX40, Formula 40. Nobody I can think of has succeeded on so many different boats ranging from 18' to 115'. I hear he breeds a great labradoodle too.

Randy is a bloody legend, and I'm keen to hear more on his boat, but I was rooting for Alan and his dad! Alan thanks for your report! Congrats to you and your dad! Very cool project!

Randy was not on the winning boat in "The Race" and Playstation didn't make it through the first ocean (Atlantic) before breaking a daggerboard and dropping out (she really wasn't ready anyway). I can't recall exactly which boat Randy was on in The Race but while in 2nd place and pushing hard they had a serious breakdown after a really bad stuff in the Southern Ocean. They took the boat to shore for repairs and couldn't convince several crew members to get back on the boat.

Club Med won the "The Race". Team Phillips abandoned ship in the middle of an ocean and then paid a high ransom to who ever salveged her. Thats all I remember.

Jake, thanks for helping to set the record straight on those things.

Randy was on Team Adventure with Cam Lewis.

I remember Randy giving a slide show presentation during Spring Fever a few years back about the adventure - quite a tale!

They DID say, however, that the lead boat was desperately wishing that Team Adventure would slow down - their speed was really making them push their own boat to the limits of what they considered safe. That, and they could tell when Randy was at the helm of the other boat as they usually knocked off more miles during the times he was on the wheel thus closing the gap. Eventually, pushing the limits caught up with Team Adventure.

As reported in the most excellent book, The Race, by Tim Zimmerman (required reading if you like racing cats!) Grant Dalton's team on Club Med won The Race. Team Adventure (Randy's ride) didn't have much time for shake down and training, it was the last of the 3 big Ollier cats built by the French yard Multiplast, to hit the water, just weeks before the start of The Race.

After Cam Lewis and Randy pushed it very hard for many miles, the front beam started to delaminate near where it attached to the hull, as in: split apart, because of the intense, sustained water pressure being applied while crashing along at 40 knots for days on end.

One crew member was seriously injured when they stuffed and came to a screaching halt, nearly flipping the boat. That's what caused a couple other crew to abandon ship when they pulled in for repairs. Randy and Cam did complete the race short of crew, after repairs, but didn't finish well, although they did have one of the fastest 24 hour time splits in the fleet prior to the delaminations.

Is Randy the "Best in the World"? Well, he's won an America's Cup on a cat, The Worrell more than once, the Alter Cup several times, the Volvo Extreme, the Corsair Nataionals many times, and so many other catamaran racing titles you can't list them all.

Who has consistantlly beaten him, I can't think of anyone, but I don't know everyone, especially the Aussies and New Zealanders, and then there are the French, who love to set records on big cats and tri's.

Here's the best part. When you see him at a regatta, he will answer all your questions and even come over and look at your boat, give you some tips on how to set it up. What other sport can a weekender get some quality time with the best, for free?? What other top guys, in any sport, will give a putz the time of day, especially if you are competeing against them?

The way I remember is that Club Med was leading the race for most of the way and team Adventure pushing it into major damage in the south atlantic requiring a repair stop over in Cape town. I think they continued later but their race was now basically over. In the end both US boats were pushed too hard and had to go into land for repairs or retire from the race. Innovation Explorer and Club Med coached their boats around the world without stop overs but with some on the water repairs and reinforcements. There was also a Polish entry (Enza ?) but they never entered the fray in a serious manner.

You can now all google to see if what I remember was correct.

Wouter

AND...


He was in Waterworld!

and the remake of Thomis Crown Affair. He said he was the first one to jump off the cat before it flipped.

And thought to be the only sailor to have won the Worrell 1000, an Olympic medal, and the America's Cup!

But Tim, seriously though, the guy is a pro and I don't think it's fair for him to compete in a regatta with us mere mortals. I mean, what's the point in me getting out there when I know Randy is on the water? It's not like I can beat him.













SARCASM! (THREAD LINK) <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Hey all,

Not sure why it didn't immediately occur to me that I have pictures of Randy's creation! Maybe because its not news to me or something like that. Anyway, enjoy.


By the way...I beat Randy Smyth in a sailing Race!!!

Smyth Tri Picassa web album EC 2008

http://www.catsailor.com/hall_fame/RandySmyth.html



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Hall of Famer - Randy Smyth



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Randy Smyth is well known to the sailing crowd. He's graced the cover of no less than five sailing magazines. As skipper for Kevin Costner in Waterworld, and Pierce Brosnan in The Thomas Crown Affair, Randy's unique sailing expertise is in hot demand. Randy is sought by Olympic teams for his world-renowned skills as technical coach. Winning the America's Cup in 1988, Randy's contributions included teaching Dennis Conner the fine points of sailing catamarans. Randy's world dominance in multihull sailing has been a function of his lifelong focus on excellence. From the Olympics to World Championships to Grand Prix Circuits in Europe to 1000-mile Beach Catamaran Races, he's won race after race after race.




RANDY'S RACE SUMMARY INCLUDES:



ONE DESIGN MULTIHULL CHAMPIONSHIPS
55 National, Continental and World Championship wins.

PRO SAIL 40
'88. '89 & '90 Overall champion - U.S. Professional Circuit

AMERICA'S CUP
'88 Winner - 60'-0" Catamaran, Stars & Stripes - Crew & Design Team Alter


ALTER CUP - NORTH AMERICAN CATAMARAN CHAMPIONSHIP
'90, '93, '95, '98, '99 Winner

FORMULA 40
'86 European Professional Circuit Champion

TORNADO - THE OLYMPIC CATAMARAN
Olympic Silver Medalist - 1984 and 1992
World Champion - 1981 and 1982
9-Time United States National Champion
5-Time North American Champion
European Champion

OPEN OCEAN MARATHON EVENTS
Worrell 1000 - Fort Lauderdale to Virginia Beach
'85, '89, '97, '98, '99 (*cx: 2000) Overall Victories
Holds Course Record of 75 Hours
Tahiti Mondial Cat Challenge - French Polynesia
'90 Winner and Record Holder
Rota Dos Estuarios E Rias - Spain, Portugal
'93, '94 and '96 Winner - Prindle 19, Hobie 20, Formula 18



AWARDS:

AMERICAN AMATEUR ATHLETE OF THE YEAR 1981
by the u.s. Olympic Committee
SAILOR OF THE YEAR 1981
by the U.S. Sailing Association
CHAMPION OF THE WORLD 1982
L'Equipe Coupe du Monde de Voile Trophee
ROLEX YACHTSMAN OF THE YEAR 1982
First multihull sailor to ever receive the award.
OLYMPIA AWARD 1982
By the Southland Corporation (the first time awarded in Yachting).
ANDY GRAM AWARD 1983
By the Southern California Yachting Association (only awarded once before).
YACHTSMAN OF THE YEAR 1983-1984
By the Bahia Corinthian Yacht Club



In addition to his sailing and racing, he currently has a sailmaking business, The Smyth Team Sails, which he operates at his home port in Fort Walton Beach, Florida.


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Dude...what took you so long to share!? That thing is a gorgeous piece of carbon simplicity.

And fast too, not only because Randy was at the helm. He beat the Tronado into the first checkpoint by almost 40 minutes I think? Some of this might be unstepping the T's mast...but keepin up with a T is impressive anyhow.

That is one amazing looking -outside of the box- boat! Who designed it, and who built it? And better yet, do you have any pictures of it sailing fast? And where do you sit, out on that net thing at the Ama? Kind of like a sailing canoe with the sliding hiking board?

"Not sure why it didn't immediately occur to me that I have pictures of Randy's creation! "

Geez. To think I almost didn't click on your link because of this description.... Thought it was NSFW until I thought about it some more. LOL!

You think that's funny. When I click on it at work this is what I got:

Access to this site has been denied due to one of the following possible reasons: 1) Inappropriate content, 2) IT Security concerns, or 3) High network bandwidth consumption code 18.3

Please contact your local IT Services Help Desk if you have a valid business reason to access the site, and want to request an exception to the filter.