Trailer - Rudders On or Off?

Noticed a few recent pictures of folks hauling their cats with the rudders attached. I had always removed them. Leaving them attached makes setup and teardown just that much faster and given that I don't have a traditional boat box, it solves the storage issue. Cat is a Nacra 5.2. Any thoughts/advise?

Thanks - Dean

OFF!!!

ON!!

Hummm... Respectful of the advise of the experts (Mary and Tom), so I should leave just one on?

Off!

Definately--OFF. Having that extra wieght dangling off of the back of the boat while bouncing down the highway has to take its toll on the glass and I doubt very seriously that it outways the benefit of saving three minutes on the beach while setting up. But I guess if it does you can alway call Jake. I hear he has gone into the fiberglass business full time. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I keep them on on my Tiger. I guess if I would do more than 3 hours drive I would put remove them.

On!

Clayton

Tornado sailors (and A-Cat sailors) would probably never dream of leaving rudders ON for trailering.

Rick and I are weekend warriors. And we would never dream of taking our rudders OFF for trailering. We also do not disconnect sidestays or anything else that we can avoid disconnecting for trailering.

Kind of depends on how much of a "purist" you are, I guess. Our boats have traveled many thousands of miles with their rudders on, with no bad effects that we have ever seen.

OFF!

(I once saw a Hobie 20 go through a toll booth with the rudder swinging loose side to side...narrowly avoided having the rudder arm jam against the toll booth.) Too much risk for damage leaving them on.

If you owned a hobie, I could understand your fustration with putting them on and off.

I needed a damn hammer to get my 17's rudder pins in and out. The Nacra's just clip in, takes less than a minute to put the whole system together. They always come off unless I'm just dragging it from the ramp back to the lot slip.

Short distance in town to the beach or ramp - on. Anything over 5 miles or highway - off!

A lot of guys carry a 1/2" wrench around and take the rudder off of the lower cstng. Then they put a bungee cord between the lowers to keep them from flopping around. Quick and easy.

I have an 18 and don't have a problem removing/installing the pins by hand. I do have the one piece gudgeons but I don't know if that makes a difference.

Thats 'cause your rudder pins were lovingly crafted out of 316 stainless by me when I fitted the one piece gudgeons on that boat! Aluminum rudder pins are more prone to bending when the steering flops hard to one side - then making them difficult to remove.

All I did to make the pins was buy some standard size round stock from a hard ware store that carries stainless, cut them to length and drill holes in for the ring dings. I experimented with tubular stainless pins but they bent just as easily as the solid aluminum ones.

I'm in the rudders off school.

On...uh... Off... uh...On!

Just depends on how concerned you are about wear to the system. Ease of use and rigging... On. Racers usually like to take them off to travel.

Yeah, but if you take them off, how do you get them back on the correct sides? That's always been OUR problem. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
So we just put them on when we get the boat and leave them on until we sell the boat 20 years later.

On the Hobies it is easy, the rudder arms curve inward. You can also use a neat trick flumpmaster showed me. Wrap a band of red electrical tape on the port rudder arm and on the port end of the tiller connecting rod. Chris's rudder pins are top notch, I have had the boat two years now and have never replaced the rudder pins. The cams and plungers however have been replaced a few times.

Not ALL Hobies! I sailed out through the surf on my Hobie 18 with the rudders on backwards...I was pretty new to things and couldn't, for the life of me, figure out WHY the boat was so hard to steer and impossible to tack.

even thought I did hear that the rudders put lots of stress on the boat durring trailering, I trailered my 20 year old TheMightyHobie18 for years without removing the rudders (not an easy process on the hobie).

I had friends who set up a quick removal system but still seemed like alot of work. I never had noticable issues, but in the end i did have to get my rear beam re-welded in several spots. I think it had more to do with my main and traveler pressures... but you never know.

I know have a mystere 5.5 with a much easier removal system and i do remove them (even though i only live 5 miles from where i sail). I am almost more worried about rudder/boat damage putting the boat on and off the trailer.

i use some red tape on my tiller crossbar and some red tape on the starboard rudder. and it is very easy for me to take the little extra time.

I take them off.

Unless you have a relief system to hold the rudders in place and take the bounch effect out, I would remove mine. "Most accidents happen within 25 miles of home" just a thought..

Guys:

The wind and vibration will tear your rudders system up. Think of them as power steering. You take all the time to get it tweaked then destroy it on the way home. Plus it should be hard on the gudgeons? Take th off.

Doug

I use carbon rudders on my Tiger and take them OFF when trailering. Generally it is best to remove your rudders. Saves on wear'n'tear and you'll also get more life out of your rudder system.

OFF - Nobody over here would dream of leaving rudders on - except Hobie 16 or 18 sailors - which we don't have anymore <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Nuts in.

Did I just say that?

You gotta watch out for those Hobie 20 sailors, they need all the help they can get! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
That's what we do. Same set up as the 20, which BTW originally had four individual pins and someone had a better idea. I even removed the gudgeons to reseat and better align them for the long pins...to no avail. It's a bitch, but I take ours OFF.

Thanks everyone. Looks like the tally is 11 Off vs 3 On. Since it really isn't too hard to remove and reinstall them on the Nacra, I'll be removing them for now.

Hope to get some new pictures posted this weekend, so you can offer advice on my setup.

Dean

I solved this complex trailering issue by buying a lake home. Now, I leave everything on (except the trailer, that's useless now).

How do you re-install the rudders correctly??

When removing my rudders from the trailerbox I determine which way the tiller arm extention is angled ... secondly, I install the bolts holding the rudder blades to the castings from the outside to the in-boardside, (so not to be injuried when falling off the boat .. cut the extra bolt off) So the nuts are always on the "in-boardside" on my boat ... easy!

It may not be only about wear & tear, or time. I trailered w/ "rudders on" w/ my H-18, and w/"rudders off" w/ my P-19. You can tie the Hobie rudders "UP" to the rear crossbar, the Prindle has a line that holds the rudderblade up, if it breaks/slips you lose the blade by dragging on the ground.

.... then two things happened ... I started to add up the $$$$s' hanging off the back of my boat ... and I watched as a NJ STATE Trooper ticketed a guy who had his scull/rowwing shell on top off his VW Jetta for violating the "overhang" laws in the Motor Vechicle Code ( it did look a little funny). So with your rudders on are you legal??? remember it is measured from the trailers lights I believe ...
Now if someone runs into the back of your trailer and you are "in-violation" what do you think his Insurance Co is going to try and do ???

If you are going to trailer with "rudders On" get some RED rudder covers ... if you are going to take them off, get rudder covers as there is more damage done in the box being beat while driving then on the boat.

Don't forget the mast ...

Check out Murrays, OK.

Sail Flat, Sail Fast
Harry Murphey
H18mag/#9458, Fleet54, Div11
P19mx w/spin /#86, CRAC

With our Hobie 18, like you said, we tied the tiller crossbar down securely to the rear beam, and that held the rudders in the up position. With our Nacra 6.0, we had a skinny piece of line with a loop in the end of it for each rudder. Put the loop over the tip of the rudder blade and tied it up somehow to the rear beam so the rudder could not fall down.

I don't know the rules about overhangs. Just that you cannot obscure your trailer lights. And I know if the mast extends beyond a certain length, you are supposed to tie a red flag to the end of it.

HMurphey...
I added some red pinstripe tape to the port rudder arm and port side of the tiller crossbar. Takes the guesswork out of reinstalling your rudders correctly after removing them for transport.

Mary...
Most states have a 6 foot overhang law measured from the rear support of the trailer (rear hull cradles/rollers/etc.) to the end of rudders/mast/hulls (whichever protrudes the most). Anything beyond that requires a red clearance flag. Some states even require a red clearance light to be attached for night travel. Check your state trailering regs and make sure you're legal.

Make sure we're legal???

It's way too late for us to make sure we're legal. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mary...
I know what you mean <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I've had a couple of run ins with law enforcement while pulling a boat. When I was coming back from the 1996 H17 Continentals (La Salle, MI) we detoured to Milwaukee, WI to visit family. I was pulling a triple stack of 17's. As soon as I crossed the IL-WI border I was followed by a WI state trooper. He pulled me over, pulled out a tape measure <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> and checked the width of the boat on the bottom rack (I was carrying the wings in the hull sockets). He measured from the elbow of one wing to the other. I was 1 inch OVER the WI width limit <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I negotiated with him, removed the wings, tied them to the top rack and avoided a ticket.

The second time was on the same trip and it was my fault. I didn't have time to renew my trailer registration before hitting the road. I was pulled over TWICE <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> by the California Highway Patrol within 100 miles of home...after driving 5000 miles! They didn't hesitate to write me up. Those guys have keen eyes...better than the WI state troopers <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

We have several trailer registrations, and we renew them every year, but somehow we never seem to manage to get all the stickers on the plates and we have no idea what registration goes with what trailer. So we make copies of all the registrations and put all of them in all of our vehicles, so no matter what trailer we are pulling with no matter what vehicle, we always have a trailer registration that will match up with something. We HOPE. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I usually leave the rudders on for short distances. The other day the distance was so short (200 m) that I didn't even bother attaching them to avoid side to side swinging. The parking entrance was not much wider than the cat, delimited by some soft bushes, no problem if they touched the hulls. But ovbiously (after it happened of course) a little branch made the rudders swing to one side and as the cross bar moved to the side it entered more into the bushes and broke. Even if I was driving slow and looking back all the time, I didn't realize what was happening until I heard the noise.

I will still leave the rudders on for short distances, but certainly attached..

I think for some boats it is just a personal preference. I never had them offmy first hobie 18. The one I have now we always remove them. I have not seen any difference in wear.

Some of the higher end carbon may be different.

I suspect that trailering really really heavy Hobie rudders ON results in droopy Trailex trailers: These are well-used aluminum trailers that are humped in the middle, the kind that used to be seen...inexplicably often....at "Rick's Place".

You're kidding right? It is obvious to me that when traveling at high speeds, the rudders, because of their aerodynamic shape, actually provide lift to both boat and trailer, thereby effectively lightening the load. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In fact, I fear that if we had hydrofoils of any kind attached to the boat when trailering, the whole rig would start to fly. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

The 5.2 has no effective way of keeping the rudders in the up position(at least not with the bungeesystem), so off they go! Its safer for the boards anyway

I took out the bungee and use a unique line to raise and lower each rudder. It's very easy to keep the rudders up with a fast knot. It is the first thing that I do after landing on the beach where I usually sail, to avoid the waves pushing thre rudders. The tube edge has to be protected to avoid cutting the line, electric tape or duct tape works. I use this method only for towing very short distances. For longer distances (if ever) I would tie them up somehow. Before the mentioned modification, I used the same line to tie them in the up position. (facing up, not backwards)

This modification caused me a problem: the loop of the rudder line catched the end of the rear beam (hard to imagine, I know, but it happened). The line was too long, I shortened it and solved the problem.

I trailer with them on. I'm only 3 or 4 miles from my launch site, but I usually sail after work. I need to be able to setup quickly and get on the water before the wind dies down at night. That being said, I don't like the risk or them falling or the weight of them bouncing so I built a support for them.

Sorry no pics. The boat is 60 miles from here in storage so I'll try to explain.

I welded a "receiver" to my trailer. Actually a couple 2x4 stake holders for a utility trailer that have 8" or so of flat bar to separate them. It's welded at an angle that if following a straight line from my new 2x4 receiver it intersects with the rudder a few inches from the end of the rudder. I cut a 2x6 to fit in the receiver. Used a dado blade to put a notch in the other end of said 2x6. The rudder rides in this notch and I put a bungee over the rudder to keep the rudder from bouncing off the 2x6.

It's much more secure than either of the other 2 strap systems I've come up with for supporting the rudders. I'm no longer stressed out while driving the few miles of poorly paved roads to the launch. And they're very quick to put on and take off.

I just re-read that description... it's pretty poor so I've attached a paint drawing that's equally as poor as the verbal description. Hopefully between the two of them, you get the idea.

For this problem I take the jib sheet and tie a slip knot. I wrap this around a rudder so high it cannot slip down and pull tight to the rear beam, I go across to the mast and tie it down to beam and then to other side of beam and out to rudder.
This keeps the rudders up and the mast down. I then pull a bright flag into each of the knots at the top of the rudders.