sailin uni

Ok guys, what is the deal... Suppose it is blowing 20+ and you know that your sail plan is way overpowered, can you sail uni to add control?

Depends on the boat. I broke my zipper on my Nacra 20 jib and went uni in about 15-18 knots and the boat ran great until I had to tack. It took a while to get through the tacks. My roomate bought an FX-1. We took it for a sail in about 15 knots of breeze and the thing tacks like a dream. It just depends on the boat. I had to furl my jib on my 21SE on a Catalina crossing when it was blowing about 25-35 while beam reaching for 40 plus miles. I don't think we would have made it otherwise. I think uni has it's place in de-powering as long as you are willing to deal with your particular boats idiosincrosies (sp).

Lee Wicklund/Team Chums

What you need to do is put a ketch rig on your boat, so if you need to depower, you can drop or reef the main, and sail on jib and mizzen. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

in similar wind 20+ , i have great problems to control fx1 with main sail only ( tacks verrry goood, but is too fast to make me secure)
1.problem is that when i go sailing depends on time not wether(wind) if is blowing is blowing <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
2.am to light -70kg
3.i was thinking to order custom (3/4 or 1/2 size) main sail, to depower boat

what do you think?

I lived in Maui for a few years and owned a P-19 and in the summer it blows hard every day, normally 25 plus. I bought a set of P-16 sails added a pigtail for the difference in luff length, beefed up the head, tack and clew at the locally sailmakers. The boat was totaly in control and still very fast. For a few hundred dollars I still could go sailing almost every day.

Trick in most uni's (I learned this on my H-17) is you MUST crack about 3 feet of sheet when you go head to wind or you will go into irons. Once I learned this it made sailing uni MUCH easier. Not that hard to do.

Doug

"you MUST crack about 3 feet of sheet when you go head to wind or you will go into irons"

sory i dont understand ,you make a hole in sail?

Let the mainsheet out 3 feet he's saying. Doesn't differ much sailing with a jib, you just want to let the mainsheet out a little more.
Last year just before Tradewinds Olli, Robbie, and myself sailed 3 Capricorns about 20 miles without jibs because it was cranking! I didn't even notice a difference.

My Hobie-18 and Nacra 6.0 responded well to this. The 18 was fun to sail that way - single handed in big wind - roll the jib up for upwind, roll it out for downwind. My Hobie-20 didn't seem to like it as much, and the jib is small enough on the N-20 to maybe not make that much difference.

On the N-20 a few times I have oversheeted the jib to close down the slot and the back of the main to slow the boat down. Not fast, but peaceful...

To get this the best performance (this includes tacking) you will probably needed to set your rig up as a uni.

For a NACRA 6.0 this meant raking the mast like a 5.5uni. For a Tornado, this meant a whole lot of little tweaks.

some folks seem to get mixed up with sailing a two sail boat under main only and a UNi rigged main only boat ,

The two sail reduced to main only will need drastic changes to get any balance in the boat , a designed uni rig boat will allready be balanced .

you can't really compare how to sail one to another , ones designed for the job one aint ,

I know there are a few exceptions such as dart 18 and dare I say it F16's where you can take the jib off and it will work (prob still with mast rake etc adjustments ) but they again are designed to do this

I can tack my uni rig on a sixpence (dime) without even letting the main out at all in flat water and mid strength winds , but there again all designed uni will behave different

can see any off that that twaddle will help , all two man boats i've sailed have had sufficient dewpowering controls to cope with any wind

I definitely get overpowered in big wind ...
If I don’t have crew I will furl the jib.

I find a fair amount of weather helm on my mystere 5.5 when I furl the jib. I can handle it, but I feel it.

Also tacking usually requires either very tight main sheet during the tack, or if I blow that... i have to reverse the tillers (all the way), and then push the boom away from me to complete the tack. It took me a while to get the feel for that...

If I get in shallows with no jib, and my centerboards kick up.... I have to do an immediate jibe! Or I am toast... I either have to jump off and move the boat, or pull the rudders and float backwards till I am deep enough...

I sail my 5.2 without the jib and it handles just fine. I can barely tell the difference as far as handling. However, I have very little rake in my mast.

As far as tacking a uni-rigged cat is concerned-weight aft is pretty important to getting the bows thru the wind. If you have crew you need to get them near the back of the tramp to raise the bows so they'll spin. I know I'm stating the obvious here, but it was missing from this thread.

I do that too as I sail solo and I added a spi to my 5.2. But I have two issues with this setup:

- Upwind without the jib the boat is real slow. It doesn't seem to fly as well as it does with the jib.

- Tacking in light wind is damn impossible. I can't seem to be able to get enough speed to go through the tack without stalling. And when stalled the 5.2 without a jib is very stable there... Once the wind picks up it become easier as you can build more speed and if you end up stalled it's easy to go backward.

You can't point as high with a uni. No jib to help give flow to the main. Also as I said, you have to release sheet as SOON as you go head to wind. Also in light air you have to keep movement to a minimum in light air. Any rocking will slow the boat and stall it.

Doug

"You can't point as high with a uni."

ever seen an a class go upwind ???? !!!!!!!!

Mr. Snell- I believe the statement about uni's not pointing as high, deserves more research on your part.

What Doug meant was to blow the main after you've started the tack, otherwise if it is tight through the tack it will act like a giant wind vane and you would have to back the rudders. Even if you have a jib up try this and you will go through and come out of your tacks much faster.

"Mr. Snell- I believe the statement about uni's not pointing as high, deserves more research on your part."

OK, Doug you heard the man. Get out and do some sailing! And try not to like it either. Report back with your findings.

Lee

It depended on the wind conditions. Sometimes I had to foot on the H-17 or it would stall. And we can't compare A cats. Those things are so DAMM light they will sail in anything. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Yes I meant as SOON as you go head to wind crack the sheet loose about 2-3 feet of main sheet. As said you must be sheeted in hard with speed as you start the tack or that to can cause you to go into irons. Just takes practice with that type of boat. All are a little different. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Doug

If I am not mistaken unirigs always poit higher than sloop rigs. But in most cases sloop rigs make up for this difference with power and speed.

I can point much higher with just my main up. The jib will collapse way before the main starts luffing. I don't know the science behind it all, or if it is faster (VMG), but uni points significantly higher... for me.

I think Doug means discount all uni rigged cats that point high which are the majority of them in my experience.

if his hobie is stalling shouldn't he put more down haul on ??

I used to race against hobie 17's when I had a Unicorn A Class they didn't seem to point any lower then, and In the Unicorn I often sailed races were I didn't even have to tack even to lay the winward mark whilst Tornado's etc tacked below me , the beauty of them was you could really screw it into the wind in gusts , without stalling .(though I admit this bit I had on Hobies )

infact I would be so bold to say that designed to be uni rigged cats forte is upwind sailing


my comments are only based on my experience racing cats in uk , perhaps things are different across the pond .

pretty good description, by Cary Palmer:

Tacking a Uni is not hard. It's just a series of well timed motions. You
have to come into it with some degree of speed. Sit on the Windward
stern, Drop a bit of mainsheet just as wind blows across center line,
Steer down to about 45 Degrees below head to wind, and come forward to
the new windward hull ONLY after the boat is through the tack and moving
again. Sheet in slowly to the old position as you come across and sit
down on the front crossbar. After you gain speed then try to point the
boat up, too soon and you'll end up in irons. Trick is waiting out the
tack on that new windward stern until the boat is moving, Come forward
too early and you'll blow it and be in irons. Hardest part is when the
wind is really blowing and timing it right to sit out the tack while a
strong wind fills your sail and flies a hull while you're tacking. I
figure I've done it just right if I Have to do a power sit to push the
hull back down as the boat takes off again.
Happy Tacking
CARY

I don't know, maybe I have a weird duck, but my Mystere 4.3 will point higher than my H-17 ever did. But we were taking about uni tacking. Just takes practice. Tami way will work great, just take a few times to get it down. Especially in a blow, may get wet a few times.

Doug

Correct me if I am wrong Doug, but your 17 had an aftermarket sail on it, and if I am not mistaken, didn't you fly a jib on that boat as well?

Collin:
Yea I had a Pentex squaretop, and sometime I flew the reacher. Just this little 4.3 will go 30-35 degrees at times. NEVER got that out of the H-17. Still it was a great boat. Hope Greg is still sailing with you guys?

Doug