Last Time You Flipped

How long ago? Wind conditions. How long to right?

21 years ago.
12 to 15Ks.
1/2 hour. Had to wait until my buddy bring me a righting rope. I was so ****, I didn't think I could flip; hence, no rope. And I was about 18 miles away from home.

If you don't have a righting line, you can always use your halyard.

>>If you don't have a righting line, you can always use your halyard.

Halyard?? Wouldn't that necessitate dropping the sail? I've always been told to use the mainsheet (although the jib sheet would work equally well).

By the way, my last flip was in 20+ kts last fall going downwind during a race. Another boat was close to leeward so I couldn't turn downwind and I was unable to get the sheet out in time. Got the boat up in 5 to 10 minutes.

sm

5 or 6 months ago
10 knts, gust in the 15knts
10 minutes?

I put a spi on my nacra 5.2 last year, first time I tried an asymmetric ever. First outing was fine, in the 3 knts of wind.

Second outing a week later was more fun, soloing in a nice 10 kns of wind, with gusts in the 15. I raised and doused the spi three or four times, feeling **** and sometimes worried by the power of this thing. Then I got hit by a gust right in the middle of sending the spi up: with the main cleated and the rudders free to go wherever they wanted the boat turned upwind and flipped. The water was *cold*!

Took me a while to get the spi back in its snuffer bag, and I had to flag the safety boat to give me a hand in getting it back up as I removed my righting line to fix the spi pole and forgot to put it back! Ooops!

Tradewinds 08 Saturday appx 18 kts.

Dropped the mainsheet, tea bag me and my crew (12 year old daughter)kinda got knocked off the back of the boat, pulled boat over backwards. oops. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> We were in 3rd or 4th. Righted in about a minute maybe a little more. Finished in 4th.

I'll play.

Last summer
20-25mph
5-10 minutes

Had my non-sailing buddy and his 12 y.o. on the boat with me. Wind was supposed to be 10-15 mph. Was blowing pretty good and getting stronger as the evening went on. Tried to tack and had a hard time getting the nose through the wind, so I reversed the rudders to get us the rest of the way through. That worked well, but after coming across the wind, my buddy forgot he was supposed to move to the other side of the boat and retrim the jib... for some reason he still didn't get it with me getting persistently louder and more frantic while yelling "get on this side of the boat... the jib... blow the jib... THE JIB!!!" Oops... my bad. We all went for a swim and his 12 yo was scared out of his mind. Cried and whimpered for all the way back to the landing... of course we couldn't sail straight to the landing, had to make a couple tacks to get there <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Checked the wind reports when I got home and verified that when we got off the water, average wind was 22mph with gusts up to 30. Maybe just a bit strong for a new crew and white knuckled 12 yo. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hmmm, neither one has been on the boat with me since.

Same day as Korz.

A nitemare experience ensued which I'd rather block out of my memory.

Day 1 of 2006 H16 NAs in RI

I believe the wind was in the high teens (knots), probably higher gusts. The wind was coming off the shore, fighting against a large sea swell from a tropical system near-miss. The weather mark was tucked neatly by the shoreline. The result was an extremely bumpy ride, coupled with extremely gusty winds. This was the day of carnage (broken masts, holed boats, etc.)...

Halfway to the first weather mark in the first race of the week, we capsized (I was being too conservative with a fairly new crew). She landed badly (on something hard) and came up in shock about the pain in her ankle.

Got on the radio, got her on a mark boat and taken to an ambulance. Meanwhile, I was alone on the now turtled boat, figuring I would just sit there all day until someone could help me right it.

I stupidly sat on the leeward hull, and the boat righted itself from turtle. I then had to right it and sail it back to the beach (upwind), alone in those conditions.

Coincidentally, that was the last time I went sailing. Since, we've had the baby, so I spent all of my time last year running regattas...

Mike

Spring Fever, three weeks ago - first time I went pointy-side-down in almost 2 years. Wind was about 8 knots but we caught a beautiful 15 to 18knot gust going down the lake in the direction toward home. We rode it for several minutes until we sailed to the edge of it where the wind backed hard blowing the kite into the rigging. I over-reacted and/or turned the wrong way allowing the gust to catch us again but at 90 degrees. The water was a little chilly.

Nope. Use the loose (hoisting) end of the halyard. You have at least 3 ft + the length of your mast coiled on your tramp.

Same time as Tommy and Tad, Tradewinds 08 on a Nacra 20..... 3 times in the first race! Time before that was Tradewinds 07 on a Capricorn... hmm starting to see a trend here!
Tom... are you sure it was only 18 knots? Seemed windier to me, maybe just the gusts?

Jake,

Are you telling me that the last time you flipped was that BWYD regatta that I sailed with you?

You haven't flipped in any of the Tybee's since then?

Sheesh

i think I may have told this story recently, but...
About 5 weeks ago. Sailing solo, uni rigged, couldn't tack it was so windy (25kn+, seriously). I was trying to tack from sitting on the hull- as opposed to while coming in from the trap. I tried more times that I care to remember and couldn't even get the boat head to wind enough to go backwards and reverse steer. I would have turned around to go back home (trying the get 10 miles or so to pensacola beach from where I keep my boat) but the idea of gybing was kind of terrifying because I KNEW I was going to go over if I tried it.
Eventually decided I had to try it from the trap but got separated from the boat (still hooked in) and it went over. The wind was blowing on the underside of the tramp and I could see the mast was submerged to below the spreaders. Somehow got the boat to stop doing that, but now had both sterns in the water with the bows pointing straight up. As I was standing on the leading edge of one of the rudders (yeah, I know... not the best place to stand... but what was my other option?) I really couldn't figure out how this was going to play out. At least the mast wasn't staight down. It eventually fell over on its side. Plenty of wind to get it back up... and back over. I can't remember specificly but I think that happened at least 2 times.
I finally got it to come up and stay up but the rudders were pinned driving the boat DOWN. So there I am, exhausted on the windward side of the front beam being dragged through the water with no strength to get back on board. I was finally able to reach the trap handle and get myself back on the tramp and quickly neutralized the rudders. If I had lost contact with the boat at all I would never have been able to get back to it.
I was so exhausted after that that I didn't actually want to race the next day. Oddly enough, nothing broke.

Spring fever 08....Thanks Jake! BTW....I did not notice, the water was cold????

Prior....Spacecoast 45 5knts of wind. Got caught sleeping when a gust came. blew us right over. Never saw it coming. Back up in 2 minutes. Still first boat to finish.

The last time I went over was during my last race (30th March) and also a week earlier during the previous race.
I don't enjoy going over but I think it's best to get them over and done with early in the season. The first one was on a 1 sail fetch and I just got hit by a gust and couldn't bear away quick enough and had to jump off the trap aiming just behind the mains leech. It took less than 4 mins to get righted again. The second was just after a gybe, one hand on the tiller one hand sorting out the trap hook, main was cleated and a piddling little gust just heeled me enough to send me slipping down the tramp un-cleating the main as I passed by. This time I was up really quick as I managed to swing around the rear beam before hitting the water, less than 2 mins probably.
Still practice makes perfect <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

A few weeks ago, at Stevenson, WA in the Gorge. The launch is sheltered and great, but that means there is a huge windline when you get past the point (5 kts to 25 kts in a few feet). Usually not a problem - just don't cleat and be ready for it. However, was sailing solo on a craptacular "free" H16 and the mainsheet kinked and wouldn't feed out. Dump, over I go not 30 seconds from launching. Finally got it up after fighting to keep a good angle to the wind (strong current opposes the wind, so it likes to mess with the sail in the water if you aren't fast )to find additional "issues" with the boat...

Duhh...I don't know why I was thinking the halyard would be up the mast. Yep, the halyard would be easier than using one of the sheets.

sm

Actually, I think it was the 2006 Steeplechase was the last flip before that...finally figured out that with the rudders up, the rudder arms catch on the footstraps on the hull making it impossible to steer. We flipped once in the Tybee 2006 and none in 2007...to the best of my recollection. I quit pushing hard enough didn't I?

a month ago. 3/5 knots. lying almost asleep waiting for two other cats to catch up when she just started to move away...lift head and shake away dream...start to fly and reach for the locked off main.....grab the (still foggy in the head) traveller and pull DOWN thinking it was the main...drowsiness turns to wide eyed disbelief as the boat went up far enough to have me slipping down tramp while vainly pulling UP on a traveller that was too long now that I had slipped towards it...grab foot strap as I realized I was going to get wet.....
Back up in under a minute but pride took a little longer.

Last saturday. I was helming on a friends boat (Nacra F18).
He just got it and after spending a couple hours setting it up we wanted to take it for a inaugural sail,
of course we had to set the spin and with the 15-20kts and the ultra steep lake waves it wasn't long before digged both hulls in and he peter-panned to the forestay.
Both water and air temperature where about 7c celsius so we got it back up in record time <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
One tip to prevent turteling is to slide out the daggerboard and lean against it until someone gets a hold of the righting cord.

It long to remember. I have come REAL close a few times on both the H-17 and the Mystere 4.3 (especially learning to fly the kite). Just lucky I guess, know what to do to save it at last minute. BUT I know I will when I get the Blade as it is a HOT boat and must be driven. Can't wait it get wet (LOL).

Doug

About 6 months ago.
Me and my non-sailing brother (we're working on that) were out on a rented Topcat K1 (German dart 18 knock-off). There was just enough wind to get her up on one float. He was on the tiller and we were double trapping and generally monkeying around. My Bro loves getting the luff float up as high as possible, unfortunately the rental trap loop wasn't long enough for me to walk on the side of the float as the platform approached 90 degrees, and I slipped off due to a wave (or jerky newbie steering?), ripping the hiking straps clean off and breaking the trap shock-cord (and almost my toe) in the process. Afterwards I realized I almost lost my glasses which weren't secured (big oops!)...
All in all it was a lot of fun, but very tiring to get back on the boat. Righting was done in a couple of minutes with no problems.

Three weeks ago. 25 KTS+ and 10 foot seas beyond the reef between Islamorada and Key Largo. We were transitioning from heading upwind to a power-reach on the F18. Just as Tyler (Skipper) came in off trap we took a 10 footer over the side, throwing him into the boom and me from the rear footstrap through the fore-triangle in an effort to avoid landing on Tylers head. Bent the boom 45 decrees and pulled the bull cord out of the mast up to about half way. Limped back down wind to islamorada at 17 kts on the GPS hoping the main didn't come out all the way.

Only once? Tough day....

Spring Fever 2008, day 2, new Blade, spinnaker deployed, kind-of gusty.

crew (me): "Head down."
skipper: "I am heading down."
sploosh, glub, glub, glub

We were upright again in a minute or so.

bastard...didn't get wet above the knees. You'd think we were sailing a laser or something. You just remember that next time I complain about being tired from driving the boat all day! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[quote You just remember that next time I complain about being tired from driving the boat all day! [/quote]

It is amazing how tired you can get pushing that stick back and forth and changing sides... and yelling at the crew. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Monterey bay first time out on my new hobie tiger. First time i drove a spin boat . Got a boat to leward and couldn't turn down. Flipped it and had the chute in the current . Got the chute in the bag and boat over but popped my shoulder out. Took 20 minutes to get back on the boat . Now i have a small rope step i can put down to get back on.

I have a mate trying to work out a step arrangement..can you describe it?

March 15...First day of Cat Fight 1 in San Diego. Unusually windy for SD with maybe 18 kts and gusts higher. Three times that day...once with the chute up during a race, once between races when we weren't paying attention, and once more during the race around the bay. Nothing broken except shockcord on the forward trap.

Last week in a skiff on Tacticat! Didn't get wet though.

Last time I flipped,

Singlehanding at the Formula 16 global challenge aug 2007; Third day sailing, but second race day with big wind. 20-25 knots wind with gusts up to 30 knots, waves of over 6 feet.

On that single day I flipped the boat about 5 times in 2 different back to back 45 min races and righted it singlehandedly all times and continued to finish inside the time limit. Then I called it a day and let the 3rd race of the day slip. I was totally neckered. At the end I got so tired that I was making more and more mistakes and was getting closer and closer to flipping it more often.

If somebody is complianing about getting tired from just helming a whole day on a two-up boat then I always think :"You ain't see nothing yet, try doing a multiple day event singlehanded (helming and crewing) on a spinnaker boat in a blow and rough seastate !"

Wouter

How long ago? Last october, almost 5 months ago and no sailing.. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


Wind conditions. About 8-10m/s I guess.

How long to right? About 5 minutes I suppose, but did not start the stopwatch..

Pitchpoled when twin wire reaching from A to B on the Tornado. Fresh crew in his 50s who had not sailed a dinghy since youth. Crew was thrown clear of the boat but managed to swim and get hold of it. I managed to clear off behind the mainsail but ripped my left eardrum as I hit the water awkward. Once we were back on the boat we righted the boat just by pulling on the dolphin striker. Getting both back on the boat was the problem. Had to walk out on the bow to get some lift under the sails.
Crew loved the experience he said, but I have not heard from him since..

Feb 17 2008.. LOVE STINKS REGATTA. Canceled due to high winds.

Started around 20-25knots but gusted above 30…

A few of us sailed upwind to an island and watched the other boats flying around. When we did the downwind run back to the beach, I had a few violent tacks. I was still learning my new Mystere 5.5.

During a jibe, my traveler line kinked and I powered up ... over I went.... I tried to hang on and fought it! I SHOULDNT HAVE!!!!... Through the window of my Tornado sail I went!

I did see a Nacra I20 also missing its window at the beach so I didn’t feel so bad!

I had JUST received my righting bag in the mail 2 days earlier!!!! IT WORKED

Late last August
7 knots
needed assistance (DSQ)

Heading towards the shore to ride the lift to A mark, I could see the puff coming, well it wasn't a puff it was a GUST. As crew backed out on the trap and I let out main, realized the hull was raising way too fast so I instinctively threw the tiller over to head up and "save it". Whoops...the gust was also a radical header of what seemed like 30 degrees. Now we've got the hull up at 50 degrees the stern plowed in (no speed) and a backwinding jib. We blew over backwards. Capsized, rogue gust gone, wind back to normal, we're a light crew, the 20's a horse, (excuses...excuses) we flailed around for at least 10 minutes and finally took assistance to right. That evening at dinner I was asked "How did you flip in that stuff?" more than once. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

main halyard snapped while raising the sail about a year ago so I flipped it on the beach <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Never. I can only get it to stand on its nose, then it kinda falls off to one side. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

N E V E R ??

Tiki, you're not sailing hard enough!

I think Tiki said he's never been able to do a full flip. He only gets 1/4 of the way there. Must not be able to get enough air to get the mast all the way under. A lot like first attempted flips on a knee board or wake board... not enough air... end up dragging the "mast" in the water. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I tied a spectra line to the tramp attachment point at the rear x bar. then i measured out two steps one lower than the other tied them in and now have a "ladder" to step up with. I keep the rope in a small tramp bag tied off on the rear

Wouldn't that then be a .... BELLY FLOP ?

Absolute genious! Can't tell you how many times I wished I had something like this, just never thought of a "ladder." I will definitely be adding that to my boat. Granted, a Hobie 16 is one of the easier boats to get back on, but I'm not getting any younger, and could stand to put fewer trap hook dings in my hulls.

I would put it at the front crossbar, though.

Mike

Any pics of this ladder?

Has anyone actually tried to get back on board a boat with a rope loop? Its harder than people seem to think. Its not like a typical rope ladder where you can get your feet under you. More likely than not, your feet want to come to the surface and you end up on your back under the boat.

i use the traveler sheet and foot strap as grab points for the arms. pics attached hopefully

OK....Run a line from the front beam along the inside of the hull through a block that is attached to the bridle attachment at the bow, about half way back to the beam tie a stopper knot. Add bungee the rest of the way back to the beam. To climb back on the boat, stretch the line down, use as a foothold and climb on, the bungee keeps everything neat until needed. Put one on each hull. Just thinking out loud.

Awwwww...I really want to say something smart...but that IS a good idea.

The best way to easily get back on? Make your crew/skipper get on first and then pull you up <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Not trying to sound smart, but some strength training would solve the issue. It is never too late to begin training strength, and I dont neccesarily mean in the gym.

E.g: http://www.citypaper.net/articles/2006-08-03/naked.shtml

I learned a valuable tip from watching/listening to Jacques Bernier. The step-around-the-beam trick as the boat rights is, IMO, invaluable. It puts someone on the boat instantly to control sheets and rudders, and as a result dramatically cuts the amount of time it takes to get back in the race. It requires teamwork and one of you has to be willing to get wet, but I have found it to be so much easier to help the other person back onto the boat after it is under control (e.g., not dragging the person in the water).

Also, a lesson learned - with the extra freeboard under the front beam on the Infusion and the Capricorn, it is MUCH faster to get back onto the boat from an aft position. If upper body strength or fatigue is not an issue for you, then by all means climb that hill.

Last flip - Spring Fever 2007 with Tina Pastoor at the C-mark on the Cap with the 'chute up. Last close call - Melbourne YC, 2007 with JC just after the A-pin on the Blade just after the set.

Why not simply run 1 small line to the front beam. tie both ends to the same spot. Leave enough slack so it will be a good "step". This can be put in a tramp pocket when not needed, or tied up to the beam/dolphin striker....

>>>The step-around-the-beam trick as the boat rights is, IMO, invaluable.

This sounds like an interesting technique. So one person spins around the front crossbar and onto the tramp as the boat comes over. I could imagine it being a little hairy though for the person heading for the tramp if the boat decides to do an up-and-over. Also, I could see the spinaker pole being a bit on an obstacle for this trick.

sm

I'm small. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Seriously, you got it in one. As the boat starts to come up, the person on the inside grabs the striker and gets a leg around the beam. The person on the end of the righting line has to commit to getting wet, but the other doesn't and their full weight winds up on the tramp, preventing a flip in the other direction. The move isn't as tricky as it sounds - you have to be quick but not preternaturally so. The boat is coming down to meet you as you're climbing the righting line, grabbing the striker and getting a leg up.

This thing about getting back onto the boat after capsize is a very serious problem for some people -- like heavy people, fat people, old people, weak people.

I know that I and a number of other people are not able to even get back on a Hobie Wave if nobody else is on the boat to help.

We have experimented over the years with rope ladders and rope or strap "steps" to get back onto sailboats, but they don't work well, because as soon as you put your foot into the "step," your foot goes under the boat, and you have even less leverage than you had without it -- especially if you have nothing ABOVE you to pull yourself up with, like a trapeze handle.

The Wave has quite a bit of freeboard, so it really is hard for a lot of people to get back on board, especially when you are wearing a life jacket. And it doesn't have trapeze lines. And doesn't even have a dolphin striker to help.

So here is what I have set up for my Wave. Instead of a step loop for my foot, I have a "pull" loop for my hand. I put a little stainless strap on the front of my mast up a ways, and I suspend a rope from it with a loop in the rope at a point where I can reach it if I am down in the water. That way I can pull my upper body up enough so that I can get my leg up over the hull or onto the deck.

It's not very hard lifting, because most of your body is in the water. Being able to hang onto something above you just gets you into a position where you can get that leg up, and from there you can grab the hiking straps and pull the rest of yourself onto the tramp.

I realize this imagery is not pretty. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

John's right and this is a valuable trick for righting the boat in heavy air. When Frank and I flipped during the steeplechase a couple of years ago, it was blowing pretty hard (we pitchpoled while sailing dead downwind WITHOUT the spinnaker). As soon as the boat started to right, I sat on the hull in the water with my legs hanging over on the deck and I rolled around with the boat and was on deck and ready to help Frank get onboard immediately. That's how Karl stayed dry during our capsize during Spring Fever. It's not difficult but it is easy to underestimate how soon you need to be moving toward the topside of the boat.

EDIT: I also meant to add that in the heavy stuff (offshore and out of the reach of help) it is MUCH safer to get someone on the boat early. If it's blowing over 18, one person can probably right the boat on their own - have one person sit or kneel on the hull in front of the beam ready to walk over to the top as it comes up. Around the main beam is really cool too but difficult with the self tackers.

We right with two people hanging on the rope, and then as she comes up I give the crew a shove up onto the hull in the water. This works in light wind and is even easier in heavy wind. The crew can then stabilize the boat and give the skipper a hand on board.

Anyone have a preferred technique for getting out the water onto the boat on new designs with lots of freeboard? I used to clamber up on the inside of the hull till I noticed all the dents from the harness hook. Now I'll go to the outside of the hull and grab a trap line.

One trick I've recently used when capsizing down wind is if I stay well attached to the boat I climb down from the hull in the air using the dagger board (Ninja Warrior stylee), or step down and around the rear cross beam, using the traveller car/main sheet lower block as a step. This gets someone preventing the boat from turtling very quickly.

Chris.

Chris.

Good call! yer feet go the opposite direction of the force applied.

I tie a few rope loops onto the bottom of the tramp where I can reach them when I am in the h20.

Last flip was the last regatta I sailed in...A cat Worlds, November(100 boat fleet). It was the second day of racing and the weeds were all over the place. The wind was rather light and you had to clear your rudders and boards almost constantly (no crew to help). I was sailing upwind with the windward rudder up when I tried to tack while lowering and locking the rudder. Boat came over on top of me before I could get things sorted out. Got it up fast and finished 14th in the race.
Ken

Flipped this afternoon coming in to the leeward mark in 12 knots. Tried a classic Rick White "enter wide exit close" maneuver to squeeze past the boat in front, but left the spinnaker up too late. Then the halyard recleated twice as Helm drove into the hole, and all his heroic attempts to bear back down couldn't keep us up. Had her back over in a few minutes and climbed up using the trapeze handles. All in all a great day racing, looking forward for more tommorrow

Didn't you guys take a swim in Cat Fight 1 this year on the Cap? I seem to recall you up on the shore during the third race. I think that was one of the few races I didn't get a swim that day.

Oi! Good call. I'd blocked that one out. Jeff was driving and missed his trap handle on the way out after rounding C. He yelped and I tried to grab his outstretched arm but we already had a hull flying and gravity had him. He dropped the stick but took the mainsheet with him and over I went. He says I flipped the boat, not him, because he wasn't on board. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

That race was our throwout - we sat on the beach and watched you guys finish it. Lots of drama down there at the bottom of the course and we had good seats. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />