Alter Cup 2008 on the water reporting

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we are currently posted on RC boat and getting preparations ready for todays practice racing. All the boats are getting prepped at GYC.
All posts are in real, in other words at the time of the posts is when its all going down.

I will try my best to answer as many questions as possible.
stay tuned

firr image

what is the wind like?

Here's the online link to the weather for Gulfport:
http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=Gulfport+FL

12 to 13kts from 285 measured 5 mins ago

What did you eat for lunch??? (Kidding) - how are you doing real time reporting? (what hardware)

im using an att tilt. please excuse my grammar.

boats are on there way out now. wind is definatley starting to get puffier.

Ollie, Joanna, Krantz and Lennard just raced this weekend in winds 18-22 with some bigger gusts here in Columbia, and kicked Butt in the spin fleet. I believe they are ready for you guys! Good luck to all, but especially our local heroes. JC, that means you too!

start of the first practice race

were first to c mark but ingram was first over the lIne

second start

same second start

the jasons third
mcdonald/seth in fourth
all teams to the beach

are you taking your pictures through a screen?

the pic are using the phone camera and yes they through a screen why you ask

because we can see the screen :P

Its cool tho mengo.

Keep up the good work Robi, for all us schmucks who either have to be at work or just can't be there. We will all be staying tuned to your reporting.

second group first, third race. two boats were ocs but no recalls due to its only practice.

team JJ

Thanks Robi, we love obsessive/compulsive cat reporters!
cheers

team JJ first to finish but third to the line

Tomko was first to the line but decided not to finish.

These folks know they are doing,why they have decided not to finish beats me.

Another to note is thid fleet is much aggressive than the first fleet. They were all pushing the line at the start. This fleet is much closer together as well.

They know that it is bad luck to finish first in a practice race before a major regatta.

I'm SERIOUS!

second race for the second group. on this race team zhik hit another team on the port rudder. team JJ was ocs but no recalls.

team Zhik

WWDLD... he would never do that with his own boat.

Thank You

team Livingston first around the C mark. boats are about to finish todays last race.

Team JJ first in.
Team zhik fifth.
Team lienti 8th.

racing is done for today. we'll be back tomorrow.

Chris Zander is also shooting photos - we'll have them uploaded to the Team Seacats flikr site tonight if I can sort out my internet connection.

photos and post are up at www.teamseacats.com

I know that nose.

Was there a sippy-cup nearby? :P

from what the internet is saying looks like no wind at this time. Is there a min wind that is needed to race?

1000% correct, Mary!

Same jinx applies to winning a short lead-in event, such as the H14 NAs the weekend before the H16 NAs start. Of course, winning an NAs no small feat, so this is less of a downer...

Mike

here we are again. todays is the first day of official racing.

all teams are the water with a minute or two to start.

todays racing was delayed due to barely any wind on the course. the wind now seems to be blowing 8 to kts steady.

fleet B is racing first today.

all boats rounded the A mark, all boats cleared the offset within a minute.

todays racing is very close.

we are currently anchored maybe 75 yards upwind from the offset.

who was in the lead?

picture from todays first start.

second lap at A mark. first boat passed at 1:57
Tomko
Dingo
Zhik
Northern ???
The Jasons
????
Lynn/Lenti
Carlson
Figueroa
??????
last boat passed at 2:01

first race for fleet A.
first boat to A mark was at 2:50
team livingston/Leandro
Team JJ
Nigel 5th
Matt/Seth 8th
last boat rounded at 2:53

they reached C mark at 2:57

second lap around.
Nigel at 3:06
Team JJ
Livingston/Leandro
Kurt 6th
Matt/Seth
last boat rounded at 3:06

first boat to finish was Nigel at 3:11

as you can see his downwind run very short.
wind is still holding a steady 10kts.

how many races are they gonna do today?

Sounds very exciting! Who's your PRO, what are the target times for each race, how long is the turnaround between races???

(Wishing I was there...)

Mike

the races are running around 25 minutes each. After each race the teams are going in and swaping out boats.
The PRO is Fairley Brinkley.
The turnaround time is roughly 30 mins.
The weather picked up and there is short interval 2ft chop. This why no updates have been posted. I do not want to damage my hardware.

A fleet is up next. Sadly I won't be able to update. I am posted this because the teams are in the beach switching the boats around.

The wind is now averaging 16kts. Not very puffy and very stable.

http://www.ussailing.org/championships/adult/usmhc/alter08/Daily%20Report/DailyReport.asp

where's US Sailing?

'Cuz the Web Laison for the Multihull Council is competing, not posting (JW).

Get off my back - I just submitted the report and it's 12:16am. Our goal is to get as many races in as possible. The wind and weather was so good today, I chose (after consulting with Fairlie) to push the fleet out for one more race late in the day. I couldn't stand to see that wind go unused! We probably won't push so late further into the week. Our turnarounds have been inconsistent but at a very high speed this early in the week. our shortest was 15 minutes and our longest 45. It all depends on what kind of attention the boats need inbetween rounds.

more pictures (EXCELLENT photos by Chris Zander) and a story at www.teamseacats.com. The US Sailing website should be updated shortly.

I think this answers the question about sailors using performance enhancing drugs. Someone needs to call Tripp out on this before it gets much more out of hand!
[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/teamseacats/2434825695/in/set-72157604636773996/[/img]

No... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I met him last October in Little Rock and that's NOT Tripp Burd <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yes, that is Tripp Burd.

So does this mean congress will be calling sailors to testify about preformance drugs soon?

Definitely Tripp! Jake... how are they doing? Watters is a really good dinghy sailor, he got 15th at Vanguard 15 midwinters (which is kinda poor for him) when I got a cool 51st. I'm 99% sure he's never raced cats though. Wicked cool to see him on them though!

We put a lot of focus on the beach staff this year but we lost Darline who normally does the web reporting. I foolishly thought I would be able to pick up the slack but that's not quite the case. The last two years, we have had two people working the beach - this year we have seven. We have a scribe (Robyn Strickland) that takes notes from the sailors as they hit the beach about anything that needs attention on the boat, we have one person assigned to two boat numbers to handle minor issues and help get the boats on the beach and turned around (David Strickland, Chris Zander, Tim Owens, Zack), then we have Robbie Daniel and Greg Goodall who are standing ready to fix major things (like replacing a spinnaker or battens, etc.).

Robi's doing such a good job reporting from the water, I may see if he would be interested in putting together a daily report to keep me from being up so late!

Tripp raced a couple of legs of the Tybee 500 last year - he's got a little time on cats.

here are the results after two complete races - we got the the first heat of race three completed tonight and A-fleet goes back out this morning to start the day and complete race #3.

Nice job, Jake, Robi and all!

What sorts of issues are you having with the charter boats? Surprised no one has asked yet, since that's always a hot question, especially for newer boat classes.

Mike

Jake,

I didn't mean to get on your back. I didn't know you were the one doing the updates. I thought as always, Darline would be doing it. Thats cool and believe me, everyone appreciates your hard work on this whole thing.

(And its bloody great to see an Alter Cup that focuses on the sailors and not just on the boats :P )

"And its bloody great to see an Alter Cup that focuses on the sailors and not just on the boats"

Excellent point, and I totally agree. But, we are boat geeks and we DO want to know about that too!

Mike

I meant Andrew Watters, Tripp's skipper doesn't have cat experience. Tripp has plenty of time in cats!
Thanks for the updates Jake! The pictures on your site are awesome!

todays racing just started around 10 mins ago. The wind this morning is light maybe 7kts. A fleet raced first this morning.
Mark rounded at A was.
The Jasons rounded second
Nigel/Alex third.
Team JJ rounded fith.

Second lap.
Marshack third
Tomko fourth
Alex/Nigel
The Jasons
Team JJ

And who won?

Andrew/Waters won the last race. They were late to the start by thirty seconds.

So far unofficially the standings are as follows.
1 Team JJ 9pts
2 Nigel/Alex 9pts
3 Tomko 9pts
4 Andrew/Burd 11pts
5 Marshacks 12pts
6 The Jasons 14pts
7 Brandon/Damon 19pts
8 Team Zhik 20pts
9 Leandro/Livingston 23pts
10 Gallespi 27pts

This is unofficial at the time of this point.

For the second race today' seeing how the wind is on the lightr side they runing course six with an upwind finish so the boats will be able to keep going upwind into the beach.

Something I did not mention was the wind is straight off beach coming from the north.

Are the finishes still super-close?

Mike

Second race for today was B fleet. The wind was shifty, flooky, and barely there. The direction was al over the place.
Order of finishes for this race.
Gallespi
Dingo
Olson
Team Zhik
Newkirk
Miller
McDonald
Figueroa
Carlson
Hilk

The race comitee just reported over the radio they are reading 16kts of breeze from 280. This means the sea breeze is about to kick in.

A fleet is racing next.

Thanks Robi for the updates.

Sadly from what im seeing on the beach, it seriously doesn't look like this so called 16kts of breeze going to stay strong. The wind today has been shifty varying from 2kts to 16kts. Seems like lake sailing right now.

Stay tuned.

For this last race (fleet B) There was going to be a protest. The race comitee was going to protest a team for rounding a mark the wrong way. Luckily the team retired after finishing so this situation never went to hearing.

Fleet A is waiting for the wind to kick in steadily. The key word here is steady.

Here we are again on the water. This time around we are anchored 50 yards upwind of the offset mark. Fleet A is a minute away to start. I will report the teams I recognize.

Stay tuned.

Order of I recognized.
Tomko 2
Leandro/Livingston 3
Alex 5
TEam JJ 7
The Jasons 9

The downwind leg lasted maybe 2 mins once againg. The conditions are double trap with winds from the north west.

Pics

another

2 minute runs??? Wow, I guess if you get a bad start, you're toast?

Mike

second lap.
Tomko 1
Alex 2 diped leandro
Leandro 3
JJ 5th
Jasons 8

This fleet is extremely close together.

A fleet just finished.
From wht I saw
Tomko 1 but was OCS
Alex 2
Leandro 3
Team JJ 6
Jasons 8

Another boat broke a downhaul.

It unfortunate that team Tomko has an OCS on this race. They have a good standing. We will have to wait and see how this affects their standing.

Stay Tuned.

an OCS is the worst thing that can happen to you in this format.

It gives you 11 points for that race, and bumps you to B fleet, so the best you can get is 11 for the next race.

You get doubly-penalized.

B fleet is on deck. I have not hit the beach yet. So I cannot give you more details on the Tomko OCS.

Thanks for the updates Robi.

And Jake, run them until it gets dark, they came to sail and don't have to drive home at night. The wind here in Sebring came in strong and gusting by 11am, and the sun doesn't set until after 7:45, so let them race at least until 6pm. in the better wind of the late afternoon.

I am finding it VERY difficult to understand the format of this Fleet A and Fleet B thing. Don't they keep mixing them up so everybody gets to sail against everybody else an approximately equal number of times?

first lap fleet B
Figueroa
Tomko confirmed OCS because he is this fleet B
McDonald 4th

9 boats sailing one is at the beach. They went right after a capsize.

Anyone know whats up with the boats..are they all sold or how much they're asking for them?

Brief explanation of the A and B fleet. First race the fleets are divided by random drawing into A and B fleets. Teams in each fleet are scored 1-10. Top 5 from each fleet go to A fleet, bottom 5 go to B fleet.

From that point forward A fleet boats are scored 1-10, B fleet boats are scored 11-20. To get to A fleet you must finish 1-3 in B fleet. You get dropped from A fleet if you finish 8-10.

The idea is the top sailors spend more time sailing against each other.

Mary:

It is a new format that was first tried at the Alter Cup that I was regatta chairman at out of ABYC.

There is not the boat rotation at is prepared at the beginning of the event. Instead you take the bottom three teams from A Fleet and move them to B Fleet and the top three teams of B Fleet and move them to A Fleet. The first race of the regatta you take the top 5 teams in each randomly selected fleet and put them in A Fleet and the bottom 5 from each and put them in B Fleet.

Scoring will be finishes in each flight. A Fleet will get 1 through 10 and B Fleet will get 11 through 20.

This is a great format because you are sure to get the best sailors always sailing against the best sailors. Not so much the luck of the draw when you get put into a flight.

The trick is getting instant justice on the beach so you can send the next Fleet to the start line. If there is a protest or a redress that has to be hear before you can determine who is going sailing in the next race.

All in all it is very nice.

Dan DeLave

I heard at GYC that as of last Sunday there were 3 left for sale, the rest was sold.

Thank you, Dan and USA 197.

last I heard only one boat is available for sale.

Top three in this fleet are.
Tomko
Figueroa
Matt/Seth.

Dan got it right - last year we changed the series so that B fleet sails first. This way we end with the championship deciding A fleet race.

Wild day today - will try to get a report up at US Sailing and Team Seacats tonight...need to go get dinner now (ate wayyy too late last night and gave me stomach issues!).

Preliminary results as of today.
Nigel 6pts
JJ 12pts
Marshack 13pts
Andrew Waters 17
The Jasons 17
Brandon Wallace 18
Leandro 18
Tomko 20
Dingo 32
Krantz 34
GAllespi 34
John Bauldry 40
Figueroa 42
McDonald 43
Lynn Olson 48
Newkirk 49
Eric White 51
Brent Carlson 53
Evan Miller 55
Ken Hilk 67

That's all she wrote for today. We are al headed back to GYC for some serious grub.

How many total races were run today? Are the boats swapped at the club or at the public beach? Too bad it can't be done out on the water and get more races in.

Today there were four races. Two for A fleet, Two for B fleet. The boats are being switched around at the public beach.

I was thinking about the years past where they did have to do the boat swapping on the water - but I was thinking to myself; "what a nightmare that must have been". We constantly deal with frayed trap lines and make a lot of tiny improvements that you might make to a new boat and/or sailor related failures that would be impossible to keep up with on the water. Spin halyard blocks have been the biggest nightmare over the last three years - replacing those on the water would be impossible and I can only imagine the delays related to regular maintenance.

Nice Acat Jake

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sorry for the delayed updtae. I did not have a good signal out on the water.

B fleet just got done racing.
Team Zhik
Gillespi
Hilk

Fleet A is racing up next.

Awesome reporting job Robi! Thanks.

Only thing that could make it better is on-the-water video, podcasted interviews each day etc. Maybe next year! I've never been to Florida...

I just came in from sailing on my lake, about 85 miles inland from Gulfport. The wind is very gusty, holes all over the place, no wind one minute and a 20 knot gust the next! And some big shifts as well. The wind direction is basically NE but shifting to East and North, so it should be very interesting racing bouys like that, especially with all the condo's around there to mix it up. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Looks like the wind is definitely up and down, see the data from the bay monitoring station at the link below:
Boca Ciega weather station

"B fleet just got done racing.
Team Zhik
Gillespi
Hilk"

GO RONDO (by proxy)!!!!!!!!

Mike

Who finished where in A fleet today?

That would be ERIN Laporta!!! representing Area C

So... go Erin!

Correct, but Rondo has to do the bullet shots (as needed)... Not sure that he ever took care of that piece of business when she got a bullet at the NAs last year... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Also, I was trying to not to jinx Erin and Kenny...

Mike

Connectivity today was terrible. Sorry I could not get more reports in.

We'll see how tomorrow works out.

results going into Day 4 - WILD day yesterday. We had two protests, a holed boat (that had to be switched for our backup boat), and the leaders were DSQ'd from a race. The whole leader board has been scrambled now but when we get to 10 complete races (hopefully today), the teams will benefit from TWO throwouts - which should open up a world of possibilities. There are still a big fist full of sailors that can win this thing. Watters and Burd are now on top of the standings even though they hit a sandbar in the last race yesterday opening up their daggerboard well. That boat is having it's repair finished up this morning and we should be set for another day of racing - our new backup boat was sailed over yesterday afternoon. It's going to be a little lighter today and we're expecting a real drop in wind speed around 3pm.

Anybody have the story on Nigel hitting Krantz.

OK with this A/B fleet thing... Since Nigel got a DSQ 11th place in the 7th race, does that mean he starts in the B fleet the next race? That is a double penalty since he could only score an 11th the next race. That sucks!!

Not really. If he were sailing in a 20 boat fleet, the DSQ would be 21 points. By winning the next race (in B Fleet), he picks up a total of 22 points, which he can completely discard if they get to 10 races (two throw outs). There's really no difference in this case.

Now if he didn't win the next race - that's a bit of a different story.

sorry - no more "on the water" reporting from Robi as he has joined the show and is now crewing for Ken Hilk starting in heat 10B. Ken's crew is suffering numbness due to a pinched nerve.

Seems the results are shown incorrectly?

B fleet sails first... A fleet second. Hard to tell by this what breaks or back-to-back races there are.

DAMNIT MARK... I WARNED YOU ABOUT THE &^%%ING JINX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope Erin heals quickly, is there a chance for her to get back in it?

Mike

SURE!

She is young.... (Unlike us ol geezers!!!)

They are running short courses... if the sheet hand is grinding both the main, spin and hoisting.... they will sleep well.

There are only 10 boats. The way it was explained earlier, A fleet is scored 1-10 and B fleet is scored 11-20. The bottom 3 of A and top 3 of B swap fleets. Is this done with each race?

Looking at Race 7 and 8.... since Nigel got a DSQ, it appears that he had to start in the B fleet the next race since he was in the bottom 3. So even if he wins Race 8 in B, he only scores a 11. Hence.. A double penalty for the DSQ. Is this correct?

Yessir. Being DSQ or OCS is a death nail.

Double Dog Dare Death Nail

Well I guess with two throw outs after 10 races it's not a total death nail, but you then have to stay clean and out of B fleet from that point on.

however, if you throwout your 11, can you make an argument that you shouldn't ever be bumped to B fleet? :P

No.

How's the wind over there today?

I bet you could get a deal on this one!

Whats the story on the DSQ? Because of the collision?

Looks like a project for Jake back at the hotel parking lot.

Talked to Tripp a few hours ago... he said him and Andrew were protested and DSQed from a race today for barging at the start. They were pushed back to B fleet and then won that race and that put them back in A. He said 1 or 2 more planned after I talked to him and more tomorrow so a lot could still happen.
It's still really amazing that they are doing that well with Andrew having no cat experience! I hope everyones getting on him about racing cats more regularly!

It was steady 15 in the gulf about 20 miles north of the races

I just spoke with Nigel. Here are the offical unofficial results after today

Nigel/Shafer 23 pts
Tomko/Billings 25 pts
JC/JW 26 pts

About the DSQ yesterday- he did his turns after the incident and sailed the entire race, but they ruled that it was extensive damage so he got the DSQ. He wasn't too happy about it... Especially since that sent him to B fleet and another guaranteed throw out.

You do the crime, you do the time.



Looks like Nigel's pleading for his life:

I dunno....Mike's a good friend, but I think I'm going to start going to different regattas from him....he always seems to be in the wrong spot at the wrong time!!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> I think half the regattas he's raced in over the past couple of years, he's sustained significant damage!!! Ever since he recklessly and deliberately crippled that poor guy from California at the NA F18s in 06!!

Ok...I'm ducking!!

JL
(JK guys....really!!)

Not sure what you're talking about... I race with Mike K, David L, and Nigel on a regular basis and haven't ever seen them in any collissions. They are all top notch sailors. I'm sure the collission was accidental. But that is not the issue here.

This A/B fleet format severally penalizes you if you get a DSQ... For the top teams, it double penalizes you since you can get no better than an 11th on your next race.

A) it was a joke Mark...chill!! (Mike can tell you a few stories about collisions...he doesn't only race cats) And I don't recall bringing any of their sailing skills into question. The fact that they are at AC while the rest of us are arguing about silly crap from a keyboard takes that question out of the equation.

B) fair or not...rules are rules. They apply to everyone equally. And if someone is truly "top of the fleet"...they should be able to recover...as apparently happened here.

I'm certainly listening with respect to the fairness of the rotation rule. The US Multihull Championship has been breaking new ground with this rotation system and we're constantly evolving it. However! If these 20 teams were racing in a 20 boat regatta, a DSQ or an OCS would give you 21 points. All three A-fleet teams have won the sucessive B-fleet race after being "flushed". They got 22 points for the error. Having two throw-outs, instead of one, helps treat the situation as if you were in a 20 boat regatta, got a penalty and absorbed 21 points, and then got to drop it. I don't feel sorry for the teams that got flushed - they've been given an opportunity to recover.

What is interesting out of all of this is that there is only ONE team that has not flushed to b-fleet; Casey and Williams...yet they sit in third place in the current standings. Is that fair to them? Have they been consistently bettered by the other two teams when they race? Who is the team that is performing best in the championship? I don't necessarily have an opinion either way at this point - what are your thoughts?

Jake brought no tools.

Re the pens / points

It's in the SI's that you get a DQS and so drop a fleet. It's documented, if you don't like it, you have two options.

1, Don't sail the event. No one is forcing you onto the water
2, Don't hit people.

Looking at the damage, it was not a "glancing blow", that was a direct hit. It should be avoidable.

The damaged boat is no longer usable, I assume there are a couple of spares.

What redress did the boat that was hit get?

If I was wording the SI's I would have made it a non discardable!

This sort of damage can cause real problems in these sort of events, it's to be avoided at ALL costs.

One nice thing about this system, is that we're down to the last day with several teams in the hunt. AND the leaders are racing head to head with each other. It should be a fun day. Wish I could be there. May the best team win!

Jake, we appreciate your dedication.... I guess at this level consistancy should be critical. I'm not sure how it could be scored differently. A DSQ should probably get 21 points, but not have to suffer the consequence of B fleet. However that would not be fair to the #8 boat that would have to go to B fleet. With the 2 throw outs, at least they get a break to not count the 2nd race while being exiled to B fleet. Since the rules are in the SI, everyone knows the consequences of a DSQ or OCS. PLAY ON!

I can promise you that the team of Casey/Williams isn't too excited about the two throw-outs this morning! They're the ONLY team not to get flushed to B-fleet and in some ways, I can see their argument that this feat should put them in a better advantage. However, they're not regularly beating the other top teams on the water. Do you award consistency?

I was in Jake's chair when the idea of a second throw was introduced. The debate among the committee was spirited - in the end, we decided to try the one-throw-per-five-race formula and see how it went. Obviously, I now feel it was a horrible idea and should never have been contemplated. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Seriously - the format of the Alter Cup has been a grand experiment and each year it is refined in some small way to make the event better. I am excited beyond the capacity of Rolaids to be here and racing with this fleet. Jake and Bob both received proclaimations from the Mayor last night, fer chrissake - this year has been a real stand-out from the perspective of competition, conditions, boats and management. There's a lot of different ways that today can end, but I can't think of too much barring someone getting hurt that would wipe the grin off my face after this week.

Jake, neither I nor JC have or would complain - we knew the rules coming in. If an "argument" is being offered, it isn't coming from us.

Just so everyone understands the situation of the hole in the boat, as I was told, that boat was on Port Tack and was hit by the Starboard Tack boat. I thought there was something in the rules that says you are to avoid a collision at all costs? So, without being there, did the starboard tack boat try to avoid them but "missed", did they hail Starboard, get told to Hold Course and hit them? Was it going upwind or down?

The port tack boat (with the hole) did two 360 turns, then continued racing, with that hole, but was taking on water and retired, then was DSQ'd when the extent of the "substantial damage" was seen, at least that's the way I heard it, but again, I was not there. Wether they finished the race in the bottom 3 or retired or were DSQ'd is irrelevent, because they would be in B fleet next race anyway. But, if the incident happened say near the finish line, and they did circles and might have finished in the top 7, then they wouldn't have been dropped. Either way, they are back in A fleet with the most number of 1st. place finishes (3) of all the boats.

So, in that case, what about the starboard tack boat? Is he off clean after putting a hole in another boat?

They both should be penalized if the boat holed had the ooportunity to evade but didn't in a timely manner - meaning you can't "let" someone hit you and get an advantage from it-
I guess if the fouled boat did not see the offending boat AT ALL you could say they had no idea of what was about to hit them... but then you could argue they should be penalized for not being aware of their surroundings (?).
Hailing starboard doesn't have anything to do with it really IMO- especially at this level. As Rick said at one of his sailing seminars... hailing starboard (unless the other boat clearly doesn't see you) is nothing more than a "beating your chest" move.

before dingo gets on my case... this is a rule discussion and has nothing to do with the actual racing or even the actual situation other than it brings up a good opportunity to discuss and clarify rules.

ROW boat is NOT required to hail anything.

If JC and JW end up tied for 1st, then their consistancy will pay off. Their worse throw out will be better than the other team. So there is some reward for staying out of B fleet. I have a feeling with as close as the top 4 teams are, every point will count.

Any reports? Damn, if only ESPN would carry this.

right

If a port and Stbd both boats may get binned.

Port for not avoiding collision when on Port. Stbd for not avoiding collision even when ROW boat.

Almost 2:00 EST, any news on the last day? Are they racing? Any surprise shake up in standing? Inquiring minds are anxiously awaiting for the crowning!

To be clear, I never said the right of way boat was REQUIRED to hail, it is a courtesey call and one I always make because I don't want to hit anyone, or be hit.

It did save me at Tradewinds when I never saw a boat (not in my fleet) coming in on starboard under our jib, couldn't see him and could barely hear him in that wind, but because he did yell several times we finally heard and saw him and were able to duck him cleanly.

I hate to see these kinds of collisions, they could realy do some damage to boat and people, and for what? It costs nearly no boat lengths to duck.

You are a fool to assume a boat on port tack sees you and a bigger fool if you then hit him. Rule 14 clearly states that you will do everything in your power to avoid a collision, even if you are the ROW boat.

I agree... when in doubt I certainly yell "starboard" to make sure they see me- and in return like the heads up myself. Not required but in some circumstances I think it is good sportsmanship.

This just posted by Jake on team seacats site
**********************************************

US Multihull Champions Crowned
By Jake
Pitt and Shafer win the Hobie Alter Cup by 2 points over Casey / Williams! More detail to follow as soon as I can get a few moments.

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> That's like Santa with no toys! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

nope - like a man with already too much on his mind!

Very interesting race today, I was fortunate enough to watch it from the water. Fleet A had the first start, and after what looked like a long luffing duel JC/JW came over the starting line last, just after Pitt/Shafer. I believe that Tomko was involved as well, but not sure about that. Both Pitt and JC made their way through the fleet gradually, exchanging positions a couple of times. The wind was dropping gradually, and shifted about 50 degrees to the South. JC/JW came in 3rd, Pitt/Shafer came in 4th. Tomko came in 7th (or thereabouts) After that race, the difference between 1st (Pitt) and 2nd (JC) was 2 points.
B fleet was sent out onto the water after a brief wait on the beach, and I think the plan was to sail one more A fleet race after that. However the wind continued to decrease and shift around, and after waiting around on the water until close to 2pm the B fleet boats were sent back to the beach and racing was over.

Just curious. If it's the U.S. Multihull Championship, why is there only one brand name boat being used?

See http://www.ussailing.org/championships/adult/USMHC/
Boat selection is made each year by the Committee based on proposals made by Boat Manufacturers.

It's not about which multihull boat is the fastest, it's about which multihull skipper+crew are the fastest, so they always use a fleet of identical, brand new cats, and to further keep it even, they also rotate boats.

Speaking of the boats...I'd love to hear what some of the guys who sailed the cup in '07 and this year have to say about how last year's boat (Blade) compares. Especially JW and JC who did so well both times.

The idea is to take as much of the boat out of the equation as possible so that it is sailor against sailor. If you are familiar with the NASCAR IROC series, this is the same thing. All the boats are setup identically - batten tension, mast rake, rig tension, diamond wire tension, spreader rake, jib clew attachment point, etc. Sailors are only permited to make normal sailing adjustments while underway (ouhauls, downhauls, sheets, etc.).

We use 10 brand new boats because 20 would be too much for a manufacturer to justify. We use 20 teams because the yacht clubs couldn't pay for the event with only 10. In other US Championships, they use a pre-determined boat and sailor rotation schedule and you could (and they have) end up with a 1st place team that never beat the 2nd place team when they met on the water but still wins the regatta. For our championship, John Williams when he was chair of the event in 2005, introduced the promotion/relegation system that was an adaptation from model sailboat racing. A-fleet is the top fleet and each round, the places eight through ten are relegated to b fleet and places 1 through 3 in b-fleet are promoted to A. This way, the top sailors are racing the top sailors.

Congratulations Nigel and Alex. You deserve to be included in the rights of past winners. It is a pretty impressive list:

http://www.ussailing.org/championships/adult/USMHC/winners.asp

This is sort of like a great QB finally winning the Super Bowl. There are a lot of Dan Marino's out there that are not considered GREAT until they get that ring. I've always thought that Alter Cup is the Super Bowl of Cat racing in the US.

I'm curious what next year's boat will be. In the past 4 years, it's been on a F18 twice, F16 and NA 20.

Ever think it will be done on a H16 again?

There's no reason it won't be on the H16 again.

I know what I WANT it to be, thats for sure. You'd either love it or hate it.

Boy, there are a lot of opinions and accusations being tossed around on this thread. As one of the parties involved in the incident I would like to set the record straight.

It was the on second upwind beat when it happened. We, Krantz/Lennard, were ahead and to leeward in 1st, and Pitt/Shafer were a couple of boatlengths windward and behind in second at the time. We tacked to starboard, David hailed starboard several times as we approached, he continued hailing starboard. We fully expected them to tack either directly in front or in a leebow situation. There never was any doubt in our mind that they were going to aggressively defend their position. At the very last second we realized that they were not tacking and a collision was going to happen, we blew the main and jib and attempted to duck. Our starboard hull hit them about 3 feet from the transom. There was big bang, we both spun around. I asked them if they were all right, everyone was ok, they did a 360 and we went on to finish the race. It cost us both a lot of positions, we finished 7th, they crossed the line in 8th. Once we got to the beach, we then realized the extent of the damage from the collision. The jury convened a hearing, Pitt/Shafer were exonerated on the port/starboard collision since they had done their 360. The jury then proceeded to DSQ Pitt/Shafer for a violation of rule 44.1 - causing serious damage.

Nobody could feel worse about the incident than Dave and I. Nigel and Alex are very good friends of ours. We race both together and against each other all the time. It was an unfortunate incident that just happened, and we are especially grateful that it did not cost them the championship.

On another note, I've competed in more than several Alter Cup Championships. This one, was by far, the best I've ever been to. The Capricorns supplied by Fun In The Sun were awesome boats to sail. The city of Gulfport welcomed us with open arms. The hospitality of the host club - Gulfport Yacht Club was second to none - thanks to Bob Feckner and his staff of volunteers. And Jake Kohl and his event staff ran an impeccable event. Last but not least, the competitors, some we knew and some we just met, were a great group of sailors. Everyone sailed hard and sailed fair - what more could you ask for?

Regards, Mike Krantz

Thanks for the write up Mike. I'm glad nobody got hurt. Did they just not see you coming or did they think they could cross you? Just goes to show that even at the top skill level these things can happen and the rest of us need to be aware, I know I've nearly hit or been hit many times in similar situations. It's hard to hear a hail when the wind is up and with the jib blocking the view it's hard to see what's coming, even worse with the spinnaker going downwind.

They said they never heard us hailing them, and didn't see us approaching until it was too late. I have no reason to doubt their testimony.

That's what happens when sailors get older -- they are all going deaf. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
My suggestion is for everybody to carry on their life jacket one of those mini-airhorns to signal other boats when you are on a collision course.

whistles might work too but then either you fumble around for the one on your PFD (if you have one at all) and are not paying attention or everyone else gets confused and starts looking in the water for someone separated from their boat!

Thanks for the info, Jake. I had wondered why the Worrell 1000 and the Archipelago did the same. It does make sense now. I guess I was wondering if I wanted to enter the Nationals every year, if I would have to purchase a different boat every year to do so.

This is different than a nationals (or the Tybee or Worrell) - For the US Multihull Championship the manufacturer provides 10 new boats and you have to qualify through an area qualifier (using your boat of choice as long as it has a valid Portsmouth number) or petition for a sailing position in the event based on your sailing resume. Cost to the sailors is relatively small and does not include any charter fees (US Sailing takes care of that).

For a typical nationals, you pick whatever class you want to sail in and buy that boat and bring it to the nationals. Most, if not all, nationals are open to everyone with that particular boat.

Thanks again, Jake. I have never been involved in organized racing, so this info is educational to me.