Will high gas prices affect regatta attendance?

With gas prices already so high and predicted to rise even more this summer, is this going to affect your plans to attend regattas? Will you go to fewer of them? Only regattas close to home?

Should regatta organizers be worried about lower attendance this year?

Maybe not this year, but definitely next year. I'm planning on constructing a lighter-weight trailer and putting a hitch on the Volkswagen Jetta...Bonnie's going to freak out that her car could potentially become the regatta-mobile but with an A-cat and a light trailer behind a 4 cylinder jetta, it should get good fuel mileage.

i am thinking about getting a cat sled harness and rounding up all the local strays!.... gYDiUp!!!

I know that i had plans to drive way down into Texas a few time this year but now am thinking otherwise.

Im glad I unloaded the RV when I did, it was nice but not cost effective. I do have a nice new tent and a double stack trailer to share some gas with my friend, guess thats my way of cutting back.
I had a comversation yesterday with the organizers of the biggest regatta on our lake about combining events to anticipate the loss of boats related to gas prices and overall decreasing participation in all regattas. Our local Race officers are stretched thin too, and there are no paying gigs for them on our lake, just beer, food and maybe a Tee shirt. We are definitely planning for decreasing participation hoping that wont be the case, but you need to be ready.

We have built a double stacker...put a hitch on my Nissan Sentra...take the truck or and take the RV as little as possible. That way we had haven't limited our regattas so far.

I put a hitch on my Mazda Protege5, also a 4 cyl. It works fine, tows well, and I can get highway mileage in the mid-high 20's....As to towing capacity, take a look at the European tow rating of cars, it will amaze you to see what they allow over there. My US Mazda owners manual said not to tow anything, while the European guidelines for the same car were something like 2500lbs with trailer brakes and 1200 without, so I am not worried about my trailer and H16 with a combined trailer weight of about 750 lbs. A Jetta (2.5 L? 4 cylinder) over in Europe tows braked travel trailers in the the 1300kg range!

I just drove down to Kansas from Minnesota. It was almost 500 miles each way. Had to fill the truck when I got there, and fill it again when I got home. It costs about $125 fill my pickup right now. OUCH!!!

There is some local club cat racing about an hour from my house that I have been seriously considering keeping/racing my boat there and just riding my motorcycle to the lake every weekend. My new bike isn't in yet, (sometime in May), but it should get over 60mpg being only 250cc. I hope.....

Your buying an A-Cat and are worried about gas prices? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We've been down this road in 04 after the first big jump. The regulars show up regardless. We can't blame the price of gas for the drop in attendance. The best thing we have going for us right now is the H16 fleet. These folks do an outstanding job with getting youth on the water. Want to save the sport buy a H16 and grab the neighbor kid.

In my experiance, the folks who blame fuel cost for not going to distant regattas have other reasons for not showing up to nearby regattas.

I'd have to report you to PETA.
If you could figure out a way to hookup your trailer to this, it might help.

Is it better if i use Reindeer? Onward Blitzen!!!

Just imagine doing that in the UK. Diesel is now around the $10 per usg (3.8lt)mark. Sailors do think twice about long distance traveling for events.

Cheshirecatman

Yes.

Case in point. My parents no longer RV any further than an hours drive. They cannot afford the gas. So all the trips to the mountains and beach they much enjoyed are out. If you are living and racing on a tight budget, the cost of travel definitely affects your decision process.

I like it. Although I use my cycle as much as I can these days I can't see me hooking up my 900lb cat/trailer rig on the back. First I would have to change to a tandem (to accommodate a crew), then if I was able to do it I might loose enough weight to be able to sail a smaller/lighter cat.

Cheshirecatman

I didn't say it was a NEW a-cat. Now I don't have to buy beer for crew anymore either.

Crap!

Hear me now, believe me later .... the extra beer you save by not providing it to your crew will impact your performance (and your waistline). <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

People for the Eating of Tasty Animals???

yes. plus the cost to operate support boats. When I trailer the Sea Ray I gey 8mpg.

I'm paying about 11USD per gallon for 98ron for my Subaru. Total nightmare.

Its funny how being retired changes your views.. Spring Fever $328 hotel, fuel $201, regatta fees $60 (best deal around) car wash (to remove RED MUD) $6. The fun I had, Priceless ! We are about 348 nm from our nearest regatta, this if nothing else, presents a bigger problem. The real addional cost of fuel is in fact minimal.

Attending a regatta is still cheap entertainment if you ask me. For what those 3 days of fun cost me it's very had to beat with any other activity. It's had to go out for a nice dinner for less than $70, and it costs less than that for me to fill my tank. But of course I'm used to gas prises being 3 times what they are here in the US, so I still think it's cheap fun.

I was going to take the tri to FWB for the RTI but decided the gas was $$. 8mpg ain't fun for almost 1k miles! However, a lot of it was I just don't like towing the thing either.
check this out
http://www.nysun.com/news/business/gas-price-may-soon-cost-sawbuck

Notes from the Old Guys: The last 2 or 3 times we had an "ENERGY CRISIS" (tho denied by many) prices of fuel went down eventually. This time? Probably never. The new Chinese middle class gotta have gas cars, over which the USA has no control, noting that GM/Ford intends to keep selling them cheap cars.....

I consider myself very fortunate to have an A-cat owning friend with a lake lot on a superb sailing lake 30 miles from town, with mast-up storage. I drove out there yesterday in my Toyota Prius and sailed happily all afternoon: then flirted with 60 mpg ending with 58.8 mpg for the 61 mile trip. Not bad. Now-- can I expect to afford the $10K Prius PHEV addition battery system? Then- how far can I pull my 400 pound Trailex and 165 pound boat plus me and my rubber clothes...(800 pound load allowed) on one tank, or one charge. Slide rule work- click/click-slide/slide. Wait- I forgot no more slide rules allowed.....
Welcome to the new 21st century, Catsailors.
Welcome to the NO GAS CENTURY~

Simon, are you converting for UK (4.54lt) or US (3.8lt) gallons? I know things are bad but that bad! I was in Sheffield the other week though and saw diesel as low as £112.9/lt. Look around or check petrolprices.com

Cheshirecatman

and India. Supposedly, this will be the first year emerging markets will use more oil than us. I certainly do miss being able to drive 5 minutes to get to where I kept my boat in Fl <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

me and my rubber clothes???? Hmmmmmmm
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I hear Escalades are the big thing in China right now.

cost of gas in china is actually less than the market price because the government subsidizes it. costs less than 2$ a gallon. The differences in cost among western countries is based on the relative taxation added to the market price. If it were really a market based system though, I really wonder how the oil companies rake in such huge profits.

Get a team of miniature schnauzers. Those babies can pull and they haul butt!

The cost of gas is nothing compared to the cost of daycare.

That is without question the biggest change in our lives over the past year. We still use the RV, and it saves money or at least breaks even with getting a hotel. There's no way we'd be able to take the baby, all his stuff, all our stuff, and a boat for a weekend regatta with just the Explorer. Oh yeah, we need to take a babysitter (and all her stuff) this year too.

Since the Explorer only gets 15 MPG towing, and the RV gets 7 MPG, the impact really isn't too bad.

Mike

One would think that we might see less nomadic catamaran racing activity - which, in some ways, would be good for us. However, I don't believe we have the critical mass to support stationary racing as much. Our local club (Keowee) has a pretty high number of catamaran sailor members for the non-florida south east area at about eight or nine.

In the Prairie states I think we'll initially see a drop in attendance, IOW, this year numbers will be lower. I equate the current gas prices with what happened in '75, everybody sold everything, RV's, powerboats, hotrods, it was the "end of the world". Within the subsequent years, the gas price became less numbing and things were quickly back to normal.

I ran an inflation calculator for the price of my Big Mac sandwich from '75 and it came out at $2.98...right on. My house from '79 came out $224,000...right on. Gas price from '75 came out at $2.26 on one site and $2.37 on another... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Driving my motorhome (9 mph) from upstate s.c. to Gulfport last week was still significantly cheaper than a hotel room. Gas cost me about $450. Had I driven my truck, it would have cost me about 1/2 of that at $225 but I would have had to pay for a hotel for 8 nights.

Man Jake, I've heard of conservative, but doing 9mph just to save some fuel is pushing the envelope a bit.

Does anyone actually drive less now than they did last year? I haven't changed my driving habits or how far I drive. I've cut out the amount of times I eat out with the family to accommodate for the higher cost of filling up the car, but I still don't hesitate to drive anywhere at the drop of a hat.

arg....yah...9mpg

I have not changed my driving patterns. I do cringe as i pay the $50 to fill my tank. I fill up about 3 times a month. It sure seems crazy that my gas costs more than my insurance. It doesn’t seem that long ago when I could fill my Honda tank for $13.00.

Recently I have been helping my local economy by breaking my boat in new and exciting ways. I guess subconsciously I want to help the economy by paying welders and repair shops for work?

the issue I am wondering about is whether it will curtail powerboats this summer. Can you imagine how much it would cost to drive a large powerboat around for a day!?!?!

I don't know if it will drastically change the total number of boats that are out, but I think you'll see a lot more small boats out.

When we're at our cabin, more and more we take out the 17' boat with the little 4 banger i/o. The 23' with the 225 merc on the back stays tied at the dock a lot more than it ever used to.

It used to be that if people were over and we were just taking them around to see the place, we would always get in the big boat. Now we find ourselves piling in the smaller one. Easily costs less than half the price to drive around.

Yes, powerboats are taking a hit. I saw far fewer of them on the water last year in Newport than normal. I have some friends that have power boats and spend time in marinas, and they say the number of boats that are for sale is shocking. That may not all be due to the gas prices, but it certainly isn't helping.

Mike

I have two vehicles, a 07'F150 4x4 for work and pulling the trailer w/ catamaran (16mpg) I also have a 91'Saab 900Turbo Convertable as my "Sunday go to meeting" car (30mpg). I have resisted putting a trailer hitch on the Saab to date. This year I have put my boat at a YC and will drive back and forth, w/ the top down ... The truck is sitting more and more, even for work I take the Saab whenever possible now.

Next week I volunteered for "Race Commitee" so I do not need to bring my boat, the regetta the week following I don't think I'll be able to attend as the hosting club has implimented a policy of NO RV's or car/truck camping staying on-site overnight. (a member of the Board of Directors owns the closest hotel/motel) Quess I will not be going to that regetta this year!!!

And last week I was "discharged" from my job ...

"Economic Pressures" can come from many directions at once ... it's not only gas costs but ... food ... home heating oil ...electric ... etc,etc. Everything is mounting up, it's like the "Death of a Thousand Cuts". One cut doesn't kill you, but you still end up DEAD!!!

HarryMurphey
H18mag/#9458, Fleet54/Div11
P19mx w/spin /#86, CRAC

And the Chesapeak Bay is quite at night now ... no Cigarette boats running around anymore going from Bar-to-Bar.

HarryMurphey

One I haven't seen here is to carpool. Last year, I did two events with a motorhome, where there were four of us in the motorhome, with a doublestack trailer. 8 mpg sounds pretty bad, but if you divide by 4 people, it's 32 mpg, which isn't too bad on an individual basis. Considering I would have to take my truck or van anyways, you are automatically looking at 15 or 20 mpg. Plus, you have to sleep in a tent when you get there.

I guess it's like anything, you have to pay to play...

I paid 119.9GBP / L for V power 98 Ron a couple of weeks ago. I run all my Turbo Cars on 98.

The WR1 needs it, 320BHP from a 2L flat four is a fair grunt IMO

Word is gas is on it's way to $7 - $10 a gallon, so you might as well hit the events while gas is still cheap.

First they told me that P/E ratios mean nothing anymore, so I bought a lot of tech stocks. Then they told me that house prices never go down, so I bought houses to flip. Wish I had money left to invest in oil futures, they're telling me that's the new "sure thing". <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

$7-10?

If that doesn't kill the economy, nothing else will...

Mike

Why would gas go to $7-10 in the near future?

I won't do any regattas far from home, but I don't see gas prices stopping me from doing the ones close to home. A 2 hour drive for a weekend regatta is still cheaper than going out of town or vacationing.

At 3.50/gal my parents dropped $150 in a few hours of waterskiing with their power boat. Needless to say it's for sale and they want to buy motorcycles.

Get used to the prices guys were paying $1.698 per litre and travelling distance for everything. Last weekend I went for a sail in Adelaide 700km round trip at 20litres per 100km, $237 for a social sail and it was worth every cent.
regards

So what oil price does that imply? - $117/bbl crude works out as $2.78/gal - so do you think Crude is going to double?.

Or do you see the dollar devaluing by 50% relative to other currencies? Otherwise I don't think $7-$10/gal gas is on the cards any time yet.

Gasoline inventories in the US are at the highest levels since the 1990s and gasoline demand has dropped for the first time in nearly two decades.

I'm not saying it won't go a bit higher this summer, but not $7-$10 unless something radical that affects global crude supply happens.

Attendance at the first event of this year in our locale was up on last year (31 boats), but it was the most central event in our region. We'll find out what happens at the peripheral events where some people are making 200-300 mile drives.

Chris.

Chris.

Well, the longest I'd consider driving for a weekend regatta is about 800 miles round trip. At $7 a gallon, 7 MPG, that comes out to $800 just for gas in the RV. If I take the Explorer, that would be about $400, leaving $400 for a hotel (which would more than pay for the hotel). Of course, there's no room in the Explorer for 2 adults, a baby, a babysitter and all our stuff to be comfortable for an 8-hour drive each way.

So, at that point, it gets extremely hard to justify for a weekend regatta without getting sponsors involved (good luck with that since the economy will be in the toilet at that point, food prices, etc.).

Mike

I suppose that I'm not the best reference. Even if gas prices were to see a significant decrease, I still wouldn't travel more than 150 miles for a regatta.

I've been a rower for a long time and have grown to dread the out of town regattas. In my teens I had no problem driving 8 - 10 hours to row.....this year I probably won't even attend any out of state regattas, rowing or sailing. I work all week and the last thing I want to do is drive all night for an early morning race.

The gas prices just help to back up my reluctance to travel long distances. I'd be perfectly happy if I never left Ohio again.

Now if I were to crew for someone, and not have to haul my boat and gear, and split the driving and gas...I might be persuaded to travel further.

I predict that regatta attendance will remain steady, for the following reasons
1) More power boaters will switch to sailboats, because they will still want an affordable way to get the family on the water.
2)More people will team up and split the costs (double stacking or taking turns crewing)
3) The smaller local regattas will see higher numbers when sailors who would normally pass the lack of competition up begin to look for things closer to home.

So, will gas prices affect regatta attendance? I think the number of entries will see a negligible change while the demographics change.

I have heard several angles on this topic lately (from and economic side)....
1 that opec is not increasing supply because they cant... they are at full production..
2 I heard we could easily go to 3 or 400 a barrel in the next few years..
3 and lastly i have heard that even though china and india are huge markets, US and even world demand is down a bit and the current costs are all speculative and unjustified ($119 barrel.

All i know is i am glad i dont have to drive to far for work, live near the beach and my passion involves wind....
How bout those poor golfers and their polyester pants!

No, I'm not predictiing $7-$10 this summer, but global demand is higher than ever and on the rise and we haven't started burning the $117 a barrel oil yet.

We also have to get through hurricane season.

If you drive smart, you can more than save the increase in gas prices with efficiency. Most people that drive my size RV (a 33ft class A with a Ford V8 460) get about 5-7mpg. If you limit your speed to 50 mph on the highways and time traffic lights so you don’t come to a full stop, start slowly, etc., you can get the 12 mpg I got on a trip.
Works with cars/trucks pulling a trailer too.

As it stands, there's no reason for them NOT to keep raising the prices. The laws of supply & demand do not apply here. We'll all grumble about it, but still pay it. Just look at the people lined up to pay $3.75/gallon.

The real terrorists aren't the lunatics who build bombs; the real terrorists are the ones who methodically attack each and every one of us, in the wallet! And it seems they're winning...

You are right, much better gas mileage when you drive slower. So, if the government wants to help us to save money, they should reduce the speed limits on all the major highways down to 55 (instead of 65-70).

As it is, when you drive 50 mph on a 70 mph highway, it feels kind of dangerous, and many people are going at least 80.

I don't mind taking a little longer to get where I am going -- especially considering that the long-range alternative is to go back to true "horse" power. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Hey, I resemble that remark! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

You're very right. Last year, on a trip back from Wildwood, I was very ill, and my wife had to drive the RV home (yes, with the trailer, and yes, the first time she ever drove the RV). Our RV is a 29-foot class C, with a Ford 464 gas engine.

I never calculated the actual mileage, but we got home with WAY more gas left in the tank than when I drive on that same stretch. May have been less traffic than normal (yeah, right, we're talking about NJ, NY, CT on a Sunday afternoon/evening here). Most likely, she was just driving slower, with a lighter foot than I have.

EDIT: Oh, we were also pulling someone else's boat, which was also a Hobie 16, but was on a Trailex (we have a galvanized trailer). That couldn't account for gas savings, could it?

Mike

Mary you are off your rocker!! I loose my fricken mind driving down the interstate at 70mph. The best thing EVER was the reasonable but prudent law in Montana. There is absolutely NO reason you can't go zipping through the middle of butt-punch Montana/Kansas/Iowa/Wyoming/the Dakota's/anywhere people aren't at 95-100mph + The autobahn is proof of that.



I'm not trying to be a dick here, but stay off the interstates then.


If you want to drive slow knock yourself out. I rarely pull the boat over 70mph, and that is my choice. In fact it doesn't have anything to do with fuel economy, I just don't like the way these light trailers handle rough roads at speed, or a nasty crosswind. I'm much more confident with a heavier load. This doesn't mean that we need more regulation of our road systems. Especially considering when they are literally crawling with useless and bored civil servants.

I got pulled over on at 6:45 on a Sunday morning in Iowa for doing 73 in a 70!! The Troopers reasoning was that I passed him in the right lane! What a crock of [CENSORED]! Then get the [CENSORED] out of the left lane!

Holy RANT!!! Dude... Two words:

DEEEEE... CAAAAAFFFFF

Mike

Ryan, you can stay in the state and come up to Alum Creek this weekend!

See notice at sailocra.com

Another comment on speed.

I rode a 97' GSX-R 750 from Minnesota to Tennessee to deal with a family emergency. The trip is right around 1000 miles. I never had a cruising speed of less than 85mph. I was doing generally between 85-95mph the entire trip. I went through two tanks in Illinois with my speed hovering around 115mph. I can honestly say I've never travelled that far on a motorcycle with so few incidents. I've made a run to town and almost been hit by numerous cars in less than a 30 mile round trip.

The point is that safety by going slower is an illusion. Your soft, pink, very fragile and lucky if you live through more than the tamest of auto wrecks.


With that being said there needs to be a class system for driver's liscences. Not in what you can drive, but how you can drive.

Class 3- No passengers, no interstate, daylight operation only, no inclimate weather

Class 2- Normal liscence like we all have.

Class 1- Conditions allowing: (traffic, weather, etc) unlimited speed limit on interstate/4+ lane highways not inside of city limits. 10mph over allowed on normal paved roads outside of city limits.


A class 3 would be great for kids. That is similar to the way a motorcycle permit works in Mn. Class 2, just do the same testing we do now. To get a class 1 liscence then some sort of more in depth testing would have to be done. Perhaps a road racing school. And to wean out some of the weak make it expensive, say $10k. I'd pay it. A vehicle would also have to be in good working order as well, and would need inspections annually. The infrastructure is already in place for that with DOT truck inspections. You wouldn't want someone honking down the interstate in a rusted out El Camino just because he thinks he's Mario Andretti.

The problem with your idea is that you aren't on the road by yourself. You could be the "world's greatest driver", but you're very likely to encounter someone less skilled than yourself. And increased speed exagerates that skill difference by decreasing the available reaction time. If you're going 115, and someone innocently changes lanes in front of you (leaving plenty of room for another vehicle doing 65), you're going to be into the back of that car before you could react.

There was a poll done once, and every single respondent said they thought they were an "above average" driver.

That just means that the testing needs to be better regulated. I've made cars do some really unbelievable things. I've also driven into the ditch at 10mph because I was typing out a text message. Skill would have to be proven. Anyone who does spend a large quantity of time doubling the speed limit has learned what to expect out of other drivers and that is to never expect anything. I had the misfortune of sliding down the pavement without my motorcycle doing almost 130mph because I didn't expect the road to be covered in mud. These are the risks we take every day.

Like I said, it works on the Autobahn just fine.

Karl,
I was replying to Hobiephil, who is the one who suggested driving 50 mph. I would not dream of going that slow on an interstate highway. It's like being a rock in a river, and you need your emergency blinkers on. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

That's why I said if the nation needs to conserve fuel, one helpful thing would be lower speed limits so EVERYBODY goes a little slower and vehicles get better gas mileage.

As it is, Rick and I seem to get significantly better mileage with both the motorhome and with our Honda Odyssey driving at 65 mph rather than 70. And a lot of other people seem to drive 65, too (maybe for the same reason), so right now 65 seems like a good compromise. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

By the way, with the Odyssey (without a trailer) I get close to 30 mpg. WITH a trailer and two Waves, I get more like 22 mpg.

And I have yet to figure out whether the Odyssey gets better gas mileage with or without using cruise control. I have an obsession with keeping the rpm's under 2000, and I don't know whether that really matters, either. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I need to do some more testing on my trip north.

I have heard that the Autobahn is three lanes each direction, and that the right lane is for the slower traffic, the middle lane is for the moderate speed traffic, and the left lane is for YOU. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You're not helping your case by pointing out all the mishaps you've had.

I used to think like you - and then I spent considerable time in Germany. The autobahn is not all unregulated - only about 15% of it has unregulated speed 24 hours a day and there are other sections for which the regulation changes throughout the day with flip-down signs. Autobahn is German for "highway" - nothing special about it. Most, if not all, freight trucks are speed regulated so they cannot drive faster than 55mph and the speed differential in the unregulated sections is crazy. I enjoyed parking at rest stops and watching the BMW's and Mercs blow by at 140 for the air ripping sound they made.

There are a lot of things wrong with high speed differentials on a shared road and I would rather have some control over my own destiny. I'm perfectly OK with you driving at 120 somewhere on some road. However, I'm not willing to place my well-being in your hands passing me at 120 mph from behind.

At those speeds you still have a hell of a lot of aerodynamic drag. I seem to recall increasing speed from 60mph - 75mph (25% increase) Aero drag increases 56%, 70mph - 75mph (7% increase)aero drag increases 14%. If you can reduce speed to 55-60 you should see big benefits. Next thing is to reduce gross weight, remove unnecessary junk from RV and sailbox. Good vehicle maintenance goes without saying.

Cheshirecatman

You missed the point, Jake. Karl thinks that EVERYBODY should be driving 120 mph. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

DUDE!!!! So what you're saying is those of us that drive the speed limit or below should stay off the interstate? Interesting!

Had a guy like you come up real fast on I-10 once. I was in cruise at around 75 (over the limit...), before I changed lanes I looked, no one there, did see the bike in the distance though, plenty far enough (at normal speed). Blinker on, change lanes, 20 seconds later he blew by doing a 100 or so on the shoulder. Guess he thought I was going too slow. He did that several times that I could see until he was out of site. A few miles down the road as I approached an overpass I saw brake lights comming on. A short time later we passed an accident site. Found out he passed an 18 wheeler on the shoulder and didn't realize the bridge up ahead w/o a shoulder, tried to cut back, loose material on the side... well it wasn't pretty. I'd say he didn't get where he was going that day.

If the majority is doing the speed limit, maybe its you speed demons that need to get on another road... majority rules!!!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Slow but still all together,

Clayton

P.S. 2 buddies killed on motorcycles, used to ride myself, not a good thing to speed on, you can't win.

Some vehicles get pretty much the same mpg at 65 mph as at 50 mph. Usually a vehicle with a larger engine, tall gears and good aerodynamics will be in that category.

Econoboxes usually lose a lot of mileage at higher speeds because they are geared low to make them feel quicker despite a low powered engine. The Toyota Corolla gets better highway mileage than the Toyota Yaris despite being bigger, heavier and having a larger engine for this reason.

Karl I hope I meet you soon. With your thinking, there may not be a later.

Personally, I think anyone caught going over 80 should have their vehicle confiscated and crushed. And I don't mind being a dick about it. If that bothers you, stay of the public highways.

No. Mary said that doing 50 on the interstate with traffic going by at 70mph felt dangerous. That's where I said you should stay off the interstate.

Pointing out my own mistakes Jake? Come on man! Everyone has made a mistake going down the road. It happens.

I'm digging a hole here, but it's my opinion. You're just as screwed hitting an immovable object at 55mph, or 70, or 170. The only difference is you has less time to figure out you've F'd up. At 30mph if you piled into the preverbial brick wall you wouldn't come out of it very well.



If you're curious "butt-punch" is my way of saying middle of nowhere. As in no people. For those in a less rural area than I am accustomed to, this doesn't apply. If you haven't experienced the shear hell of driving entirely across the Dakota's or Montana you may not understand this either. There is nothing to hit.

What do you mean by "unnecessary junk"? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Your junk may be our treasure, and we have a lot of junk and we never know when it might become "necessary."

To me, the "unnecessary" junk in the RV includes the bed, the couch, the chair, the TV, the stove, the refrigerator, and that stupid washer-dryer. If we got rid of all that, we would have a lot more room for sailing junk. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

This will all be moot in a few years when our cats are being pulled by a mule!

Then it will be what, miles per gallon of oats?

Naw, by then the polar ice caps will have totally melted and there won't be any land left.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r22/LetMeIn_2007/Waterworld.jpg


Mike, I was planning on towing up to Alum creek until I stepped on one of my hulls and heard a lovely crunching sound. Unless I can find a cheap pair of hulls I'll be laying resin and glass this weekend.

double post.

Anyway, nobody has answered my other question about cruise control related to gas mileage. Do you get better gas mileage with it or without it?

And is it important or not to keep your rpm's down as much as possible?

Since our Odyssey has automatic transmission, if it is on cruise control, it keeps shifting up and down a lot. If it is NOT on cruise control, I try to prevent that from happening, so I can keep the rpm's low. But Rick says that would be bad, because I might be causing the engine to lug, which would be bad for mileage.

Any opinions (or facts) about those things?

no facts, just experiences: Same thing happens with our minivan, lots of up and down shifting, especially at overpasses and bridges, where it might downshift 2 or 3 gears...instinctively I believe that has to hurt mileage, and I believe that it doesn't do any good to the transmission either....my solution is to take it off cruise control when I see an overpass or hill coming up, putting the cruise back on on the downhill. I am pretty sure that my mileage improved after starting to do that. In my little car (Mazda Protege5) I use cruise all the time because it has a manual transmission, I just keep an eye on the RPM's on hills and downshift if the RPM really drop off.

Agree completely with Jake! I drive frequently in Europe, and the Autobahn thing is hugely overblown, since there are speedlimits virtually everywhere, and automatic speed enforcement radar cameras (ticket comes in the mail...). The truck issue is huge, especially if they start overtaking each other when their build-in speed regulators are off by 1 or 2 km/h....here you go driving along at the speedlimit for cars (135 km/h in France for instance), and you come up to two trucks passing each other at 80km/h and thereby blocking all lanes....hair-raising (and even worse where there are no speed limits)! And they take at least a couple of minutes passing each other, causing traffic pile-ups everywhere!

That depends on how good you are at working your speed. On flat level ground where the throttle won't be changing at all then there is no advantage to using your foot. On hills where you can speed up a bit going down the hill, and also let off a bit going up the hill then there is something to be gained.


It varies engine to engine. If you can get a dyno graph showing where your engine is making the most power that is where where the engine is most effiecent, but even then it may use more fuel then you want. A dyno sheet will show you at what rpm it starts making power at. Some where between where it stops flat-lining and where peaks out will be best. Kinda vague I know, but if you are trying to keep it below 2000 rpm, and the engine isn't starting to come alive until 2300rpm then you aren't gaining anything. I had a little Dodge car with a V6 that got better mileage in top gear at 75 than at 60 just because it wasn't working in an effecient rpm range.



Automatic transmissions will sometimes make use of the torque converter slipping to keep the engine in the effiecent range. In the case of getting as much power to the ground as possible a little bit of slippage is also good as you get a sort of multiplication in torque because of it slipping. I don't honestly know why, and mechanical engineer could chime in on that. There is a very fine line where that actually works though. Honda probably spent a fair amount of effort to keep it in that rpm range and that is why it is shifting. Nowdays the valve bodies are all controlled by the computer.

Get a graph showing at what rpm your engine is making HP/TQ at. There is also a diminishing return where the engine may be making better use of the fuel, but you are pushing so much air that it negates the gain in efficiency. My diesel pickup gets stupid good mileage at 1200 rpm, but I'm only doing less than 40mph in 6th gear.

I used to haul everything too, however I now travel light and buy in when something is needed. Would you do the same at $10 per gallon?

A snail carries its home on its back too, and look how fast they go!!!


Cheshirecatman

I think in most cases, driving with the cruise control turned on is better for the gas mileage. The car is going to get better mileage the closer it stays to a constant speed and rpm, so cruise control is better in that respect. However, if you're driving through a lot of hills and causing the transmission to shift a lot the engine rpms are going to be all over the place which is inefficient - remember, nature prefers to resist change. You may be able to reduce the amount of shifting by changing your speed slightly or by turning off the overdrive.

As far as shooting for minimum rpms, this is not necessarily the most efficient. As was previously stated, each engine has a maximum efficiency point where horsepower and torque are maximized. Just a guess, but it's probably best just to cruise somewhere between 2000 and 3000 rpm.

sm

Just my opinion, but if I'm a young guy hoping to enjoy the first summer that I have a job, I would seriously look at cats instead of a jet ski or boat; everything seems to fit.

Mary, I had deja vu on your cruise control question...sorry sm, I agree with Karl on this one, anywhere but flat highway cruise is not as efficient.

I've driven in Ireland, Spain and France (on the Superhighway). IMO, overall European drivers are much better than American drivers. On the superhighway differences in speed of various vehicles were marked (guessing up to 30 mph). It didn't take long to figure out you had better pay attention if you wanted to use the left (passing) lane. Turn indicators and headlights are used extensively for signaling the other drivers of intentions. They use the passing lane just for that and get right back over in the right lane, and do it ONLY when passing will not impede (slow down) the progress the faster, overtaking cars from behind. Works great once you know "the rules" and everyone seems to abide by them. I've never seen anything like this on US interstates. How many times have you encountered one car (with cruise on) going 72 that's passing another car (with cruise on) that's going 71?

Just think of poor Larry Ellison, his boat takes about 160000(!) gallons of fuel, at the Dutch price of $1.90 a liter or $7,22 a gallon (3.8ltr) makes for a hefty bill of $1.155.200.
That is money he wont be able to spend on his new 90ft AC multimonster.


(We will not even think about how much fuel goes into this 162m (530ft) giga yacht :



About the autobahn speeds, the place where I drive on a regular basis is so quiet that I can set cruise control at 185km/h (115mph) (My car wont go any faster!) and just leave it for an hour and a half and maybe pass a few cars and the occasional truck now and then.

Most annoying thing in the world. Or when they go 45 in the left lane.

In my econo brick, I see the best economy in the center lane doing 65. I then use the left lane for passing and get right back.

Cruise is not efficient on hills. I've devised a system using a dash mounted adjustable vacuum regulator on my cruise control's vacuum actuator (the device that uses engine vacuum to pull the throttle cable) in my RV so I can limit the amount of throttle that the cruise control applies to climb a hill (if it works, I'll do the same thing in my truck). I haven't implemented it yet, but I expect it will help make the cruise control more efficient. Since I'm pretty much the slowest thing out there anyway in the RV (besides really loaded up trucks), I really don't care if I speed up and slow down.

sounds like something to patent

I doubt it - it's a $50 vacuum regulator that will keep the maximum throttle to an adjustable limit so I can prevent it from "flooring it" going up hills with something in tow. Then again though, I bet some people would buy that as a kit huh?

The closed loop control systems that cruise controls use are pretty dumb and there are undoubtedly a lot of advances that could be made to make cruise controls more efficient. HOWEVER, I don't think the world would stand for cruise controls that speed up and slow down. I get frustrated enough when someone slows down when they start to pass a big truck and block a lane and I can't imagine a freeway full of cars that slow down going up hills at different rates mixed in with cars that maintain steady speed. Talk about road rage!

Jake

kit form maybe... depending. it isn't like you would want the car to slow down to 30 in a 70!
When I was towing the 31 the truck would obviously not like going up hills and of course downshift then roar to try to keep the same speed. I always slowed down heading up hills because if not, you might as well pour the gas out the window.

Check this out http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/01/news/international/usgas_price/index.htm?section=money_mostpopular

All we have to do is all move to Venezuela. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Exactly! I can't stand it when my RV downshifts to climb a hill. I would rather it slow from 65 to 55 like the heavily loaded trucks do anyway. This way, I'll have a knob on the dash that I can limit maximum throttle and keep it just off the kick-down switch but keep it rolling up a hill. Once back on the downside, the cruise control will maintain a controlled re-acceleration back up to the set speed and hold it there until the next hill.

Jake,
Folks have been doing a similar mod on turbo cars for years. I have a manual boost controller on my daily driver and for $40 now have 13psi max boost instead of only 8. Hasn't helped mileage any, tho... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Same with my pickup. Instead of 21psi, I get 32 psi now.
For those with turbo'd vehicles a boost gauge is an excellent way to tell exactly how much fuel you are pouring into an engine.