back-friendly harness

After I spend a couple of hours in my harness, I have to nurse my lower back for a couple of days. Anybody have a recommendation for a harness that is easy on the back?

Geoff

Aquata/Murrays? Worrell full harness. It's heavy but your actually more comfy on the wire than off. It's like laying in a hammock.

What are you using now? I agree with Todd though, there is nothing more comfortable than the Worrell XT harness - but it is too heavy and cumbersome for buoy racing in my opinion.

Looks to be an "Aquata Pro Excellerator XT" circa 2002.

Stupid question, but are you doing your shoulder straps up tightly? I find I often have to re-tighten them once I'm on the wire. I often don't notice that they're slack for a while, but it's much more comfortable once they're tight and taking some of the weight.

Paul

That should be a good one - play around with the straps a bit - especially the shoulder straps. When mine is most comfortable on the wire, the shoulder straps are quite tight anywhere else.

I try to keep them tight, but I also prefer to wear my PFD over my harness, so I don't have great access to the shoulder straps. It's a good thought, though. I'll pay more attention to this.

And the tighter your spreader bar is to your torso, the less pinching moment it applies to your lower back.

Here's a problem I've been having with my full body harness. In order to walk upright on the beach, I have the shoulder straps loose. Once I get out on the wire, I reach inside my life vest and snug the shoulder straps down fairly tight, tight enough that I can lay my shoulders back to flat body, and relax my stomach muscles.

BUT, when I come in off the wire for a dowind run, and try to sit up straight on the tramp, the shoulder straps are now too tight, and if I were to get off the boat with them set at the "upwind" setting, I could never stand up straight without loosening them quite a bit first. Cranking down on the shoulder straps compresses my vertebrea as well as supporting my shoulders and upper body, due to the nature of them wraping over the top of my body and going back down to the waist area.

I can really feel it in my back the next morning if I have been sailing "compressed" the day before. Is there a harness with shoulder straps or other type of upper body support that does not compress your spine when you tighten them up?

Tim:
I have exactly the same problem with my MagicMarine harness, the other day I borrowed a Hobiecat Convertible harness and liked it a lot.
The back support is quite solid and doesn't depend/compress so much on the top shoulder straps like my MM one does.
I am seriously considering getting one.

Thanks Tony. It looks like it has no shoulderstraps at all, is that correct? I was thinking about maybe a windsurfing type harness or something that wraps around my chest, no shoulder straps, with a hook higher up, towards my sternum, much higer than the typical cat harness. Anyone seen something like that? What do the Kite guys use?

As far as the half-harness goes, I don't think anyone makes one comparable to the Hobie...I'm just waiting for the day I can afford/justify one (would be great for those lightish days where you may or may not be trapezing). The center of gravity needed for trapezing is different that wind surfing since they are standing more upright.

Hobie makes two different half models, the Convertible (that is the one on the picture) and the regular half Skippers harness. The Hobie convertible has shoulder straps that can be taken off (hence the name convertible). The back and hip support in this harness are great, the bucket is very stiff and has a lumbar support build in. The regular Hobie half (Skippers) harness does not have shoulder straps, nor does it have the support or stiffness that the Convertible has (but it is cheaper!). We have the Convertibles and love them.

Anybody have experience with the HYDRO XT shown here? http://www.aquatausa.com/harness.htm

I have the Hobie convertible harness as well. I love it with one major exception - when you're doubled over to get under the boom on an H-16 or H-17 (especially the 17), the rear "plate" sticks out enough to catch the boom as it goes over your back. It also interferes with the "skirt" on some of the PFD's I wear, contributing to the problem of the PFD riding up.

I went to a MM full harness in 2005 (not really thrilled with it), and just bought a MM half harness last weekend. The new half harness is nice, but the jury is still out. One day of sailing is not enough to judge.

I have a friend that has/had a hydro XT. I think he likes it a lot... I'm just more into the full harnesses. I've got an Equipe and LOVE LOVE LOVE it! I'm going to need a new one soon and am not sure what to replace it with. It has GREAT back support, you don't even know your hanging in it.

I have to say that I might be the only person in the world that does not like the worrell harness. I wore one for two days in the worrell and had to switch to my equipe. It seriuosly hurt me on the sides of my thighs.

Matt, yes, I experienced that on the 16 as well...I found that it is much less of an issue when the shoulder straps are attached (they keep the back part of the bucket closer to the body).

I have the slightly older model aquata hyrdo which is pretty much the same as the xt. I find it comfortable but I've never had a full harness so I don't really have anything to compare to.

I've sailed thousands of hours in a harness. I've owned a ton of harnesses. The Worrell XT was the most comfortable for long periods on the wire, however it was too bulky for most bouy work. The new Zhik harness is hands down, the best alternative I've found. Lighweight, no buckles, a huge back support pad, and broad spreader bar. It will be available in the US mid-June, Order here at the Catsailor Online Store. There was a thread on this harness a while back with pics, etc.

Are there any full harnesses with the spreader bar higher up than belt level? I would think the higher you could get it the better back support it would offer, without having to crush your spine with over shoulder straps pulling your shoulders down toward your waist.

Timbo, from a biomechanical perspective the most efficient placement of the hook is closest to the body's Center of Mass (COM), which is located in front of the sacral bone (or S2). This happens to be the approximate location of the hook for most harnesses. The further you place the hook away from the COM, the more muscle action is needed to stabilize the body while on the wire, or more elaborate support mechanisms will be needed. If you would move the hook placement higher on the trunk, you would need more muscle activity of your lumbar extensors and other back stabilizers to stabilize your spine, and over the course of a day this would probably lead to more low back fatigue/pain.

Uh, and in case you couldn't figure out from that post, Arie is a Physical Therapist.

Sorry....couldn't contain myself! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Arie. Many years ago (1984) I had a windsurfing harness that had the hook up higher, near the chest, no butt support of course but I was thinking of something similar with a butt buckett as well as chest wrap around, put the hook half way between the two locations.

Tim: I don't think a waist windsurfing harness is going to work, with windsurfing you are mostly in an upright position.
Maybe a seat trapeze harness will work, I would definetly try to wear mine in an emergency though:
http://www.pro-limit.nl/displayitemv6comp.php?item_id=4482

Yeah, I remember those...
That could work, providing that there is contineous support of the spine along the back to prevent too much muscle action. One of the problems might be that this back support would need to be fairly rigid beween the chest piece and bucket, otherwise the area of the back opposite of where the hook is located would take a lot of loading. That rigidity that might make it more difficult to move around. Most windsurfers seem to have gone to lower placed hooks with the change in technique and technology.

I was thinking about one of the waist models but with a butt sewn on so it wouldn't slide up. Click on their "waist" models. Yeah, it might be to stiff to move around on the tramp when you have to snuff the spinn, etc.

I've always wondered why nobody made an integrated harness/PFD. Maybe the Coast Gaurd approval is too expensive for the volume of harness sales?

exactly. it doesn't even make business sense for most pfd's

Timbo,

Can't you run your shoulder strap adjustment loop over your PFD? I think I have that same harness (magic marine - the "pre" worrell name I believe), and I run the strap over the PFD on that side, so it's right there when I need to snug or loosen it...

But, all that adjusting does distract one from the sailing...

I have often thought of just getting a new PDF and having a sail-maker incorporate into a harness. Two separate units is nonsense.

I have the previous version of the Aquata Hydro. It is great for short course round the cans and is no inconvenience at all to wear when the likelyhood of use is 0.1%. However for longer legs my old equipe really takes some beating. The best suggestion I can make is take your normal sailing kit down to the next boat show and try the wares of the exhibitors out. It's alright saying one model is better than the rest but proper fitting is of equal importance. It is not easy to do this with with mail order, but if any supplier is worth his salt he should be prepared to ship a couple of 'best guess' sizes on information given and accept the unwanted item(s)for refund. Also, a comfortable fit over a wetsuit is not always a comfortable fit over a drysuit.

Cheshirecatman

I've been thinking about this arrangement for some time. http://www.catsailor.com/bb_files/146643-Telltails.jpg

Does anyone know more about it?

Pete:

What is the picture telling us? What are we supposed to be paying attention to?

A poorly trimmed jib? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Look where and how the trap line attaches to the harness. I appears to be a small line that goes from the hook to the shoulder straps. The attachment point seems to slide along that line.

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> On second glance, that is just the trap bungy! Still, I think I'll try to cobble something together.

The crew is using the wrong trap also, its much easier for crew to use the aft one.