Alinghi VX40 capsize today

Alinghi VX40 capsize today

See video here - http://www.isharescup.com/

This is getting comical.

Tipping anything in uphill is a poor showing!

I guess some the monoslug sailors are not learning quick enough!

Maybe we all need to send our CV's in....

It doesn't look like they were going uphill and it looks like their rudder stalled. How many of you would have stabbed it into the wind before it was too late? Was the boat behind them a bunch of pussies or smart?

Don't be bitter because they are getting paid.

I think you're passing jugdement a little too rapidly. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Watch the video and you'll see the conditions under which this happened.

I'm trying to focus on the fact that they are sailing multihulls in the first place.

Not that they are going through the learning curve we have all experienced.

And they are "learning" on a boat that I would give anything just to have a ride.

Go get em' <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

They were bearing off getting ready to deploy the genn when the top (you can see it in the pic) decided to let go. That much "bubble" at the top of the rig probably made it decide to go swimming.
You can see Holmatro's Genny in the drink.

Come on, malicious joy is the best joy.
By the way they are not the only boat, where the hooter opens, however the gust is certainly stronger for the two most forward boats than for the rest. But hey, no excuses for those guys, that are mono guys <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Cheers,

Klaus

At the time they started losing it, it seemed like they were still heading up pretty high for having already rounded the windward mark.

But honestly, in strong wind on any cat, getting from upwind to downwind without losing it can be rough...

Mike

From what see, they might need some practice righting the boats, as they always seem to break the mast when doing so.

Maybe send a diver to the mast tip to tie a line whereby they can lift the boat by the mast tip (SLOWLY - to let the water move around the sail) rather than try to jerk the hulls to right the boat.

Or try to right the boat by flipping it over the sterns?

Just seems wierd that they keep breaking the sticks so easily...

Not bitter.

I've also done them a dis-service, they were going downhill, (you can see the mark behind them). They just did not bear away far enough when the hull lifted, you can see from the onboard that they are (probably) far enough in front on Holmatro.
At about 9 seconds you can see they had some room to leeward; they could (maybe) have saved it by dumping some traveller and a bit of a bear-off.

Will know more in a couple of weeks as a mate is out on one for a jolly.

A good second piece of video:

http://www.alinghi.com/en/news/news/index.php?idIndex=200&idContent=15867

Just read they were reaching to a second mark, not going downwind. Probably should have kept a better eye behind on the puffs but that is easy to say whilst sitting here.

We have all been there (on smaller boats) at some time or another.

That's a much better video!

It looks like an instinctive 'head up' on Holmatro almost cost them a dunking too...

Ok, main traveller was out and mainsheet also looks like it was out, jib was out. I am not an Alinghi fan anymore, but I dont see much more the team could have done except going a bit deeper. Looks like they went by the book?
How Holmatro saved it I dont understand.

Kind of looks like the "bad air" off of Alinghi might have helped Holmatro pull out by shifting the apparent wind.

Whats up with the boat turtling so fast, they need to seal the mast and put some floatation in the top, its retarted that they break the mast each time they go over.

If you look closely on video2 Holmatro actually bore away and started to dig in. They had a better initial angle (and sheeting) to the gust (which hit Alinghi first), this enabled them to reduce pressure on the leeward hull by luffing. It appears to have also let them keep boatspeed and get away with the pendulum effect of the mast. I suspect if they had kept low they would have stuffed it too.

Cheshirecatman

Can someone explain the capsize (and the save) a little better than what my poor little brain can figure out from the video? Here's what I'm seeing.

Alinghi bore away and their leeward hull started to come back up, but then it looks like they turned upwind causing them to crash. At about :08, it looks like as that hull came back up they turned upwind, they could have bore away a bit more rather then turn upwind.

If that is correct, how did holmatro not dump it when they turned up? Their leeward was buried when they turned up. I'm not quite following cheshire's comment about the luffing. I see alinghi blew their jib at about :02, Holm never blew theirs. This should have helped right alinghi and hurt Holm.?

I ask because my initial instinct is always to head up when a gust hits or if I get too buried (sort of what holmatro did). Since I'm trying to train myself to bear away before heading up, I'm sitting here trying to rationalize in my brain why holmatro survived when it seems that they shouldn't have.

Holmatro survived when they dumped mainsheet as their cat rounded up when they lost rudder authority, watch their leach in the second video.

"They were somehow able to avoid capsizing and we did not unfortunately." Ed Baird

SOMEHOW Ed got to steer a fast catamaran without learning the basics.

Darryn
Mozzie
1782

Holmatro's hull was level before it headed up. It is not like it broached. The boats were just not sailing that low when the gust hit. Look at the course Oman Sail takes from the mark. Holmatro's escape was a SECOND action (after the boat accelerated) and it worked.

If Andreas Hagara was on Holmatro's helm he is no rookie catman.

Cheshirecatman

Bill, I think it turtled so fast because there were 5 guys, at about 200 lbs. each, sitting on the high hull instead of getting OFF the high hull ASAP.
Even without them sitting on the hull the gust was pushing on the tramp forcing the mast down, but 5 guys on the high hull sure didn't help.

This is how I see it:

Alinghi pumped to turn downwind, but not all the way. After the rudders were back in the water, they started to turn upwind, but not all the way once again. Maybe they just wanted to return to the previous heading. I guess they thought the gust was over.

Holmatro did about the same: bore away to avoid the pitchpole and turned upwind after control was regained. The upwind turn was probably in response to Alinghi's. I believe both upwind turns were tactical, not for depowering.

The difference is that Holmatro did not stop turning at their previous heading like Alinghi did. For some reason they decided to keep turning upwind. This last (and critical) decision may have been for tactical reasons or for protection, but whatever the initial reason, it became a depowering manouver in the end. Holmastro may have dumped the main as well, but I can't see this so clearly.

It is interesting that immediately after Alinghi stopped its upwind turn and held course, Holmatro heeled more than Alinghi for a moment due to different centrifugal forces acting on the boats.

I think Alinghi would have survived if the spi wasn't partly unfurled.

I'd say two things account for the different outcomes:

1) Holmatro's stronger commitment to luffing.
2) Alinghi's unfurled spi.

Quite instructive.

Well I'll be the odd man out on this one. These guys are sailing these boats everyday. It looked pretty sporty out there that day. I've made a few mistakes myself and went swimming as a result. How many of you can say you haven't done the same? Mine wasn't caught on video and I don't break my mast every time luckily.

If you are pushing it to the limit in these races you are going to go over sometimes. If you don't you aren't pushing it to the limit.

I know a few of these sailors and I have nothing but the utmost respect for them. They are quality individuals. Exceedingly smart. And winners of many Nationals/Worlds events. How many of you can say that? The ones I know give back to the sailing community with all they can in knowledge and lending their time.

So to armchair quarterback that capsize is pretty much childish. I know I've done the exact same thing a few times. Out on a reach and decide to head down and realize you are going to bite it so you attempt a last second head up hoping to pull off a miracle. I've pulled it out a few times too. I know I've been on that reach knowing if I get hit by anything extreme it's going to be too late as I can't head off or up quick enough and you can't dump any more sail as you've dumped it all.

Feces happens,
Mike Hill
N20 #1005

I think Holm was a bit lucky here. Both bore away when the gust hit, both drove the bows under, both helms loaded up and both rounded up. Alinghi unfortunatly had the sceacher up and slightly unfurled, which would have compounded their problem.

Holm came very close and I am sure they had to clean out their undies after it.

Fo any of you to claim that Ed made a mistake is a massive call and one that I would say is pretty much dead wrong.

The X40 is not exactly a great desin and you loose steerage in bear aways very early, therefore your options for dealing with the situation described are very limited.

But its enjoyable seeing you guys pick apart one of the worlds best helms....

Hey Macca,

These are still quiet new beasts..... How much are the skippers (including those who saw the begining of the class) going with regards to familurising themself with the boats behavour. They look to be a very powerfull boat, behaving more like an OTB cat then a large multi.

As for the capsize.... I think any one of the boats caught in the same position as Alinghy, may well have been treding water also.

Criminy - how do you learn if you don't dissect some great footage. Relax.

Macca, why does the boat lose steerage in a bear away, are the rudders too short? Can they add longer rudders? Or is it something else?

In the bigger picture of world wide cat acceptance, I am glad to see these big cats racing like this, I wish we could get a fleet here in the States but I don't think the TP52 types want to get wet.

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I guess you'd have to find deep water, too. If the mast is 62 feet high and goes turtle....

If VX40's are anything near as difficult to steer as Afterburner...then it's easy to see why you have very few options when things go south.


'Burner is 52' long and much heavier than a vx40...but the blades are big. She steers a bit like a sow and takes a long time to respond...not like a beach cat at all.

but does she react as quickly (or as harshly) to gusts like a beachcat and/or VX40?
With the extra weight, I guess it would just look more slow-motion but the result would be the same....

I loved reading this thread - reminds me of this famous Japanese movie (the name of which of course escapes me), where a murder is seen through the eyes of several participants/witnesses. Each perspective is different, sort of like this thread.

I don't know why he flipped it, but I do know that it's generating more attention for sailing around the non-sailing world...and as you all know - there's no such thing as bad press.

In the words of Randy Smyth (whom I hope to see kicking butt out there shortly), it's only water...

Rashomon

Ohhh...that's gooood. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Shouldn't these guys be wearing PFDs?
One of the guys makes a fall from the top hull hits the main and then ends up in the water, I guess he was OK but what if he got knocked unconscious or something?

With a big fixed blade knife attached to cut that trampoline.