When does the gate close?

Hi,

A rules question I'm afraid... not triggered by Texel, but I suppose it could have been. This relates to a local regatta, which included the following in the SIs: "boats failing to finish within 20 minutes of the first boat finishing will be scored "did not finish". This changes RRS rule 35."

1. Does this mean 20 minutes elapsed, or adjusted for handicap?

2. Does the count-down to gate closure start when the first boat crosses the line?

3. What happens if the first (and second) boats over the line are later RAF'd or DSQ'd etc. Is the "gate" cut-off time recalculated from the first non-RAF/DSQ boat's time?

This relates to a handicap fleet, with rating ranging from 1.009 to 1.28. The problem is that the RO noted a gate closure time using 20 elapsed minutes from the time the first boat crossed the line. This and the next boat later RAF'd for missing a mark. A slower rated boat was scored DNF for not making the cut off time. In theory, the slower boat could have been outside the twenty minutes set by the RAF'd boat, but within twenty minutes and a winning handicapped time compared to the first qualifying finisher (unfortunately, we'll never know, as his actual time was not recorded!). With the slower boat's helm being in the National youth squad, sailing against average club sailors, questions are understandably being raised on his behalf!

1. Elapsed.

2. Yes.

3. No.

Since the times of the other boats were not recorded, there is no way to calculate redress. The best thing to do would be to abandon the race - which the RC can do after the fact.

Given that you say the gate is not recalculated (and I assume you say this because you believe it to be the correct process!), then should the RO record times after the gate has closed in case redress is sought? Without it, it seems to me that abandoning the race is unavoidable, but a very blunt tool.

Only really dumb RC would close the finishline after 20 minutes in a handicapped fleet with rating ranging from say 100 ro 129.

Sadly there are alot of dumb RC's around in the world.

Best is for the RC to note down the difference between the fastest and slowest rating of the fleet before going out on the water and use (Rating difference) + 15 minutes as the closing time. This allows all boats to have at least 15 min to get relative to winning the race.

Wouter

This can be easily modified in the SI's.

I agree with all the posts here. A better time limit may have been needed, but more importantly, times of all boats should have been recorded.

Besides the obvious abandon option, the affected boats and/or the RC could also request redress. Granted, this would be a long shot, but with appropriate testimony (witnesses would help), the time of finish of the other boats could be determined. Mark rounding times could also help in this process (of course, that's making the huge assumption that the RC recorded these).

I have seen language written into SIs for distance races to the effect of "If an RC boat is not in position at the finish, each boat shall record her finish time and report it to the RC." This is an accepted practice and would have helped here for sure.

Mike

Ditto. A 20 min time limit would make sense for a one design race, and not a very long one, depending on the wind.

A very common time limit is the sunset or sunset minus time to shore, when the finish line is far from shore.

When many races are scheduled for the same day, we use both a fixed time limit (t minutes after the first boat) or the sunset, whatever happens first. Safety and common sense dictate that all boats return to shore before nightfall.

The number of minutes "t" is a function of the course length and the slowest boat speed people are willing to sail at. The RC should double checks t during the skippers meeting and adjust it if necessary.

When I am the race officer and there is a tight time limit, unless there is something very pressing on shore, I stick around and get everyone's finish. Then I score them "unofficially." In the past, I have found that people really appreciate that very small gesture - it is a recognition that they sailed the course and crossed the line, and it lets them know how they did against the rest of the back-of-the-fleet, even though the scores don't count. Makes better talk at the bar.

On your original post, I agree totally with what Matt said - RC should abandon the race. It simply isn't fair to the fleet and that is the ultimate litmus test.

I feel I should explain the time limit in this case, before our RC is ripped to shreds!

We sail on an estuary, with a max sailing time of 4 hours, and more often 3 hours. This event is part of an annual series with a wide range of mixed fleets. Most only have a single race, but some (dinghies and cats) schedule two races per day / regatta, with the intent they should last about an hour. There is an elapsed time limit of 75 minutes, and then there is the gate of 20 minutes after the first boat finishes. Most of this is a given in the circumstances. As you can see, it has lead to a problem in this rare case where competitors exceeded the 20 minutes and the first boat(s) were later RAF'd for missing a mark. As it happens, the boat which is querying the rule also exceeded the 75 minutes, so the rest is a moot point now.

It does however raise the general question of how to manage the cut-off when the first boats RAF or are DSQ'd (what happened in Texel?).

We have also realised the need for these slower cats to be catered for with shorter courses for all, or perhaps they should race against the monohulls of similar speed. The shorter course option may be preferable, since the slow cats in questions are typically raced by the youths, whom we wish to encourage!

Same here.

Some clubs introduced average lap scoring to get around this issue and leave options open to the RO.

Cheshirecatman

A time limit should always be corrected by handicap, it is not the same if a Tornado finishes 20 minutes after another Tornado or if a H16 finishes 20 minutes after a Tornado.

This seems to be the right answer. They can use the same marks. The slower boats go around the buoys twice while the faster ones do it three times - or something along this line.

Correct