H 14 vs H16

I'm looking for my 1st cat; I've looked at a used 16, but the hulls were shot. I've found a nice H14 Turbo, but I'm not sure if I need a 16 or not. Can anyone tell me the difference between the two, other than the obvious 2'? Is it a speed thing? Does it have anything to do with my weight? I'm 190, the girlfriend is 135. Thanks

You need a 16.

Hobie 14 -- "One Up" (single handed)

Hobie 16 -- "Two Up" (double handed)

Harry Murphey
H18mag, #9458/ Fleet54,Div11
P19MX, #86/ CRAC

What he said.

Word.

Might as well keep this quote thing rolling, which I agree with. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

h14 = moped
h16 = 500cc motorcycle

Both will get you to the store, but wouldnt you rather have room for a passenger and horsepower to get up the hill!

Jeez, guys - they're 325 lbs... I'd say they're big enough to enjoy an 18 or even a 20. Neither of those, as a jib-and-main boat, is over-the-top as a first boat and either should be very reasonably priced in the used boat market, but with plenty of parts available. 325 on a 16? I suppose, but not if I could get a 20 at the same price. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I have owned both an H16 and TheMightyHobie18.

This is his first cat... i think an 18 is a lot of boat for a first boat. It could work, but also easy to get overpowered in.... (IMHO)

If you buy the 14 then,
you can raise the mast yourself with no help if needed
you can right the boat even fron turtle by yourself
you can drag it in the sand to the water by yourself
If you sail with only one person on the boat then when it comes to racing with a friend 90% of your speed is due to the captain and 10% is due to the boat ( 14 vs 16 )
The cost is less on a 14 vs 16

Sorry guys but a 14 has lot of plus' if you are new to Hobies and you are not a person who only attends races.

Yup, but two adults on a 14 is way too much. If you sail solo and are not to heavy, that's a fun boat once you learn to tack it...

A Hobie 20 would be way too much boat for a first cat. It can be a handful for even experienced sailors. The Hobie 18 might be ok as long as he uses reasonable discretion. He also didn't say whether he has any prior sailing experience.

If he's looking for a very basic starter cat to go cruise around on with one or two people, he should consider the Hobie Wave or possibly the Getaway if there could be more than 2 adults. Otherwise a Hobie 16 is a classic starter cat for two adults about his size. A Hobie 18 only if he's up for more complexity and slightly more performance.

sm

Besides a much heavier mast (and boat to right) I think the dagger boards are a MAJOR reason why a TheMightyHobie18 is not a great choice for a first boat.

In my opinion, the dagger boards alone are not the reason to throw out the 18 - heck, even a Snark has a dagger board. It's more an issue of the overall complexity of the boat, the additional items to rig (properly) and the increased power.

The advatages that the 18 has over the 14 and 16 for a beginner (again, in my opinion) are the increased floatation (particularly in the bows) and the ability to furl the jib in high wind.

That said, the evolution towards the Wave and the Getaway makes them better entry level cats than the 14, 16, or 18 for sure. The Wave and Getaway take all the simplicities of the 14 & 16 (no daggers, simple rigging, light mast) plus the added flotation and furler from the 18 and stick them on a super durable hull that's much better suited for a beginner.

sm

14 turbos have a roller furling jib. They're a great boat for light sailors that like to solo.

Being someone who started with a 16, I have to agree with John Williams on this one. You can't be serious when you say the 18 or 20 is too much boat over the 16. The 16 is harder to sail because it is, for one, the easiest boat to pitch pole next to the 14 and has a sail area that goes from bow to past the stearn. It over powers pretty good in my opinion. If it had a modern hull design, maybe it would work with that much sail. I just remember thinking how much easier the bigger boats were to sail once I got one. Leave the 16's to the "A" fleeters and get a boat that holds a little more weight.

Lee

Lee, I think you and Mr. Williams have spent too much time on boats with boards <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

IMO, the Hobie 20 is quite a stretch for a beginner, but OK for an existing sailor as their first cat, and...I also think the 16 is an easy boat to sail, and sail fast, but difficult to make go efficiently around buoys.

I agree whole heartedly with That's why I like the 16 as a starter boat, you'll learn loads sailing one <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Watch Closely..............


Hobie 16 Hobie 16 Hobie 16 Hobie 16

>>>You can't be serious when you say the 18 or 20 is too much boat over the 16.

Ummm, so you'd recommend a Hobie 20 for a first cat??? Have you actually sailed a Hobie 20?

Here's a couple reason's why, for 99% of people, the 20 would be a very poor first boat:

1) The rigging is among the most complex of all cats with it's 4-way jib cars, barberhaulers, multiple mast rotation devices, powerful downhaul... And if you screw up the rigging, at best you'll be a little inconvenienced, at worst, you'll lose control of the boat or break something.
2) It is among the most fragile of the Hobies. Unlike the 14, 16, 18, Wave, Getaway you definitley don't want to drag this boat over beaches or pound it in the surf.
3) It is the most powerful of the Hobies. In any wind over about 10mph they'll most likely be overpowered, especially if they don't know how to depower the rig or use a trapeze. I still remember when it first came out and experienced 16 and 18 crews would complain how easily it was to get tangled in the lines and how beat up they would be at the end of the day.

As I said, the Hobie 18 could be a suitable first cat for someone who know's what they're in for. For all but maybe 1% of first time sailors, the Hobie 20 is too much.

sm

I think the Hobie 18 is a great beginner boat, because as mentioned above, it doesn't pitchpole like a 16. If every 8yr. kid in an Opti can figure out the boards, I expect any adult can too.
The only real drawback to the boat is raising the mast, but he's going to have to learn the proper technique sometime, and as soon as he does, no problem. And it has a rolling jib which, if the wind comes up and you are new and overpowered, is a nice option to have.

My first cat was a Hobie 18, I sailed it solo and with 2-3 kids on board, the 16 is harder to sail well and will pitch you off if you make a mistake, the 18 is more forgiving so therefore a better beginner boat.

I stand by my opinion that an TheMightyHobie18 has to many adjustments and its weight make it not a great choice for a first boat/begginer.

The boards are a major concern if you sail anywhere's near or in shallow areas.. you have to be able to jump around from lea to windward and lift them out in a moments notice (and mine would jam up often) or you could be in real danger near shallows... the mast rotator adds confusion to new people (not a big deal, but more items to learn), i never liked the travler (the plastic sliding bearing wear out quickly, and you cant let out the travler without sheeting out the main) and stepping the mast is a struggle... even for experienced sailors.

Not to mention the Pre-86 rudders don't pop up.... i learned that the hard way and then paid the $600 for the upgrade kit (cost more than i paid for the boat)

Don't get me wrong.. it can be done... and is a fine boat... but i would recomend a H16 or prindle16, or a G-Cat (or H17) before a TheMightyHobie18.

I based my recommendation (rumination?) mostly on their combined weight of 325. I have sailed many 14, 16, 18 and 20-foot boats. 325 on a Hobie 16 is not as much fun in conditions most new sailors will hazard. I'm not saying it is a bad boat - far from it, as in other threads I whole-heartedly recommend it. In this case, I think the pair in question would enjoy something bigger - the Hobie 18 is a good choice, and the Hobie 20 is, IMO, the pinnicle jib-and-main boat in design and performance; they would grow into it quickly, I think. Is it a technical boat to race? Yes it is, but I also find it a very nice cruiser and more tolerant than the 16.

All recommendations aside, it is a buyer's market - I'm sure they'll find something that suits.

? Are you eatting your words?

Merriam-Webster: Etymology: Latin ruminatus, past participle of ruminari to chew the cud, muse upon, from rumin-, rumen rumen; perhaps akin to Sanskrit romantha act of chewing the cud

H16' are all over the place, cheap to purchase used, easily find used parts for, and easy to sell in a season or two if and when an upgrade is wanted.

Karl:

As an old 16 sailor. 325 is a LOT of weight for most wind condition. Nothing will discourage them more than sitting out on water not moving and thinking they are doing something wrong. When the problem is not much weight. I say 18 or 20.

Just my 29ys 2 cents,

Doug

>>Nothing will discourage them more than sitting out on water not moving and thinking they are doing something wrong. When the problem is not much weight. I say 18 or 20.<<

A Hobie 16 with 325lbs of crew may not be ideal for top-level racing, but to say that it won't move is a bit of an overstatement. I've seen pictures of H-16s with four adults on board flying a hull.

Here's something that will discourage them more...
Spending three or four hours on the beach trying to figure out how to rig their new (used) overly coplicated Hobie 20. Still getting it wrong. Then going out for a sail in too much wind (which for a newbie on a H-20 would be anything over about 12mph) and flipping 5 times and being totally out of control. Then crashing their new to them $5000+ boat into the beach and damaging it.

I don't see how anyone with experience can possibly recommend a Hobie 20 as a beginner boat. Seasoned racers have trouble handling it even before the wind hits 20mph. If you're recommending a Hobie 20 to a total newbie, it's most likely because you have never sailed one- if you did, I think you would feel much differently.

sm

18 would be fine. Not hard to rig and you can furl the jib if you need to. Yea 16 would move, but slow. And with that much weight would be real likely to pitchploe when the wind come up. I would go with the 18.

Doug

Erm... we simply disagree. I love the 20 and even early on, I did not find it to be as daunting as you describe.