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Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension?

Posted By: JFR

Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/01/08 09:22 AM

Standard Telescopic Tiller Extension that comes with most F18s I don't like very much due to glitches etc. I've seen some upgrades to Big T systems but don't know where to get them or if alternatives exist. Suggestions?
Posted By: bvining

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/01/08 10:23 AM

Solid piece of aluminum works great. 1/2 aluminum tube is $4/foot, usually lasts a couple of seasons before its bent enought to need replacing.

Much lighter, cheaper, and the telescoping action works like a charm.
Posted By: popeyez7

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/03/08 08:02 AM

I used PVC pipe on my 17 & 18... use Gorrila tape. Been on for 3 yrs. now
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/03/08 08:51 AM

Ronstan have telescopic and non telescopic

I have never been a fan of any telescopic extensions

[Linked Image]

non telescopic - http://www.ronstan.com.au/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=RF3137&admin=admin

telescopic - http://www.ronstan.com.au/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=RF3124&admin=admin
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/03/08 08:53 AM

Marstrom telescopic

[Linked Image]

type in tiller in the search bar - http://shop.marstrom.com/
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/03/08 08:58 AM

And my favorite, from CST.

http://www.cstcomposites.com/tiller_extensions.htm

Quote
TILLER EXTENSIONS

CST Tiller Extensions combine the properties and appearance of carbon fibres, aramid fibres and heat cured epoxy to produce what we think is the best tiller extension yet for dinghies like the 49er, laser... the list goes on.

We couldn't see the point of having a tiny tube with added padding - we've made ours 22mm untapered so it's easier to grip. Also the fibres aren't unidirectional -by orienting fibres off axis we've engineered a little bit of bend and improved the durability. The final layer is an open weave spiral helix in aramid (Kevlar) fibre which further improves damage tolerance and grip. It also aids to keep the extension in one piece even if the carbon fibres are broken. This could be the difference between a finish and a DNF...

Suitable for Optimist, Cadet. MJ, Sabot, Flying ant, Laser, Finn, 470, 420, NS14, I14, B14, 49er, Hobie, A-Class Cat, 18' Skiff, and more....

[Linked Image]

Construction: Carbon and Aramid fibres in heat cured epoxy matrix.

Production Method: Computer controlled filament winding.

The tiller extensions below are supplied with end cap and fitted polyurethane universal unless otherwise stated.

[Linked Image]

Posted By: Mugrace72

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/03/08 11:59 AM



Absolutely CST!

5 days before the Mug Race I realized I somehow didn't get a tiller extension with the H20 I bought off Ebay and so I called around for one. The short of it is that I found a reference to CST and emailed them. They are is Austrailia of course. The lady there called me right away.

We had one DHL'd in and amazingly it arrived just in time and it is the best I've ever had.

Nothing fancy...no telescoping...just light and has a nice feel.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/03/08 01:34 PM

Quote
Solid piece of aluminum works great. 1/2 aluminum tube is $4/foot, usually lasts a couple of seasons before its bent enought to need replacing.

Much lighter, cheaper, and the telescoping action works like a charm.


Wow, you can get an 8' stick of 3/4" .065 wall aluminum tubing for a little over $10 at McMaster Carr (plus shipping). I think this is the route I'm going...I can have eight of them for the price of a simple carbon one.
Posted By: Mugrace72

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/03/08 01:40 PM

Quote


Wow, you can get an 8' stick of 3/4" .065 wall aluminum tubing for a little over $10 at McMaster Carr (plus shipping). I think this is the route I'm going...I can have eight of them for the price of a simple carbon one.


I agree that the aluminum stick makes the most practical sense Jake.

I also believe that you have the ability to make a really trick stick out of carbon in your own workshop.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/03/08 01:58 PM

Quote
Quote


Wow, you can get an 8' stick of 3/4" .065 wall aluminum tubing for a little over $10 at McMaster Carr (plus shipping). I think this is the route I'm going...I can have eight of them for the price of a simple carbon one.


I agree that the aluminum stick makes the most practical sense Jake.

I also believe that you have the ability to make a really trick stick out of carbon in your own workshop.


Yeah, maybe...getting it off the mandrel without an elevated heat cure could be tricky though. I've got a great vacuum setup but no oven. The carbon stick I have with my A-cat has had several repairs done to it (and not all too well). I have the original aluminum tiller that actually weighs less than the carbon one.
Posted By: dacarls

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/04/08 02:12 AM

Half-inch Aluminum tubing will last a long time. Mine got pretty bent in A-cat learning wrecks. It is still being used 5 years later by the new owner. It is soft enough to take the bending/straightening abuse.
I also got 2 nice gold-anodized aluminum shuffleboard sticks at a junk-yard/recycler for $5 each: perfect! Very light, strong, straight and unbroken after my nice carbon stick has been broken 2 times. #2 is a spare. I smear a little Marine Goop on it once a year for "sticky hands".
Posted By: Tri_X_Troll

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/04/08 02:47 AM

My Paint-Stick-Pro gets the job done. You can't see it, but it has a snappy plasic handle on the end.

$14 for the telescoping model 50" to 85"
$8 for a fixed length.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Posted By: mbounds

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/04/08 12:54 PM

Not that it applies to anybody in this thread (except maybe Jack), but if you plan to race Hobies, electrical conducting tiller extensions are prohibited. No aluminum or carbon fiber allowed.

Quote
11. TILLER ASSEMBLIES
11.1 The tiller extension may be either an extendable
or non-extendable design but shall be a single
tiller with one end connected to the crossbar in
the same location as the factory supplied tiller.
THE TILLER EXTENSION SHALL BE MADE
OF A NONELECTRICAL CONDUCTIVE MATERIAL
ON ALL NORTH AMERICAN REGION
BOATS. NONELECTRICAL CONDUCTIVE
TILLER EXTENSIONS ARE RECOMMENDED
ON ALL BOATS WORLDWIDE.


I've always used the stock tiller (non-extendable fiberglass) on the 14, 16 and 17. Most of the other racers do too.
Posted By: Mugrace72

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/04/08 01:17 PM

Quote
Not that it applies to anybody in this thread (except maybe Jack), but if you plan to race Hobies, electrical conducting tiller extensions are prohibited. No aluminum or carbon fiber allowed.


Hey Matt,

Since I only use the 20 for distance racing, it doesn't really matter, but I tested my carbon core CST extension and it does not conduct electricity. As you probably know, they are heavily coated with epoxy. Without grinding away the epoxy outer skin, i don't think it should be considered a conductor and hence, not class legal however.

The rule does not say "no carbon fiber".

I would say that aluminum sticks definately wouldn't pass the intent of the rule, which I understand and support.
Posted By: mbounds

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/04/08 01:47 PM

Hey Matt,

Since I only use the 20 for distance racing, it doesn't really matter, but I tested my carbon core CST extension and it does not conduct electricity. As you probably know, they are heavily coated with epoxy. Without grinding away the epoxy outer skin, i don't think it should be considered a conducter and hence, not class legal however.

The rule does not say "no carbon fiber".

I would say that aluminum sticks definately wouldn't pass the intent of the rule, which I understand and support. [/quote]

You are correct - the rule doesn't say "no carbon fiber". When the rule went into effect (late 70's as I recall), carbon fiber was still rediculously expensive and nobody ever thought if would be used for something as frivolous as a tiller extension.

There isn't a standard conductivity test for the tiller extensions, nor is there a prohibited material list. It's something the IHCA Rules Committee should consider.
Posted By: Mugrace72

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/04/08 02:05 PM

Matt,

Perhaps you can shed some wisdom on the whole issue of non-conducting tiller extensions. This has probably been hashed over to nausium in the past.

Comptip masts are one thing, but how does a tiller extension become a target when you are sitting on a metal frame (14, 16) or completely insulated from the mast support network when sitting in the normal helm positon?

What situation would you be worried about by having a metal tiller extension in your hand?

Hard to imagine running into a powerline while trapped....but?
Posted By: mbounds

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/04/08 02:10 PM

I don't recall the rationale for the non-conducting tillers. Like I said, the rule was introduced in the mid / late '70's. I would be surprised if it did not have a story similar to the Comptip (it being the result of a lawsuit settlement order).
Posted By: mmadge

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/04/08 03:37 PM

I bought the Nacra carbon fiber telescopic one.Felt great while it lasted but broke like a popsicle stick the first stress it was under.I think it is poorly designed as the end where it connects to the cross bar is really thin and the grip end is thicker.
Mugrace what did they charge you to have that shipped (the CST one).I also looked at there,s and it is really popular on skiffs and catamarans in Australia(some of the guys were using them at the hobie 16 worlds)but the shipping costs were very high.
Posted By: Mugrace72

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/04/08 04:16 PM

Quote
Mugrace what did they charge you to have that shipped (the CST one).I also looked at there,s and it is really popular on skiffs and catamarans in Australia(some of the guys were using them at the hobie 16 worlds)but the shipping costs were very high.


It was way too much...but I panicked and had DHL priority do it since I just really, really, really wanted the stick!

Just one of those unexplained moments.

The way to get one is to get a bunch...like 10 or 20 shipped at once, without a priority.
Posted By: Andinista

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/04/08 11:12 PM

It's not unusual to have an unused pair of ski poles. Make a long one with both. Very fancy!
Posted By: Simon

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/05/08 12:04 PM

I have just made a composite one from the business end of a broken aluminium tiller extension (Dart 18), plastic tubing of the same diameter, and a bamboo cane slotted into both, all taped for a tight fit. It is stiff enough to push / pull against the rudders, and flexible enough to bend in a capsize and return to 'straight'. It makes me wonder why I spent £80 on a carbon spare. Mind you, I use the carbon one for real, and the "composite" one is taped to the boom as a get you home spare.
Posted By: JFR

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/17/08 02:38 PM

Alive,
The Ronstam extensions are nice but seems to not be very light.

The Marstöm extension looks nice and also costs plenty. The CST looks to be the smart choice, if it would not be the massive costs for shipping it all around the world.

I could see one Moth-guy building his own carbon tiller extension really light (and cheap), but probably don't have the time even if it would be fun. Waiting for reply from CST.

Questions: Always use telescopic? Wouldn't 2 meter fixed be enough (on a boat where skipper don't have to be in front of the front beam unless really extreme)?
Posted By: Jake

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/17/08 02:58 PM

Quote
Alive,
The Ronstam extensions are nice but seems to not be very light.

The Marstöm extension looks nice and also costs plenty. The CST looks to be the smart choice, if it would not be the massive costs for shipping it all around the world.

I could see one Moth-guy building his own carbon tiller extension really light (and cheap), but probably don't have the time even if it would be fun. Waiting for reply from CST.

Questions: Always use telescopic? Wouldn't 2 meter fixed be enough (on a boat where skipper don't have to be in front of the front beam unless really extreme)?


2 Meters is definitely not enough if you're talking about F18. You'll need the extra length in light air and I don't think 6 feet will give you enough to drive from trapping at the middle of the boat. In transitional breeze, I sometimes trap well forward.
Posted By: mikekrantz

Re: Suggestion for Upgrading Tiller Extension? - 08/18/08 12:37 PM

8' 2" overall, weighs 11 oz, includes universal joint

Carbon/kevlar construction

http://www.layline.com/product/16589/162
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