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Let the Big Dog eat!

Posted By: Timbo

Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/02/08 05:35 PM

From today's Scuttlebutt news letter:

NOTHING LIKE THIS HAS EVER BEEN SEEN BEFORE
August 31 2008 -- The uncertainty of the next America's Cup, locked as it is
in the New York courts, took another twist last week with the launch of
Larry Ellison's American challenger, and the enormity of the problem brought
into sharp focus when a 100-foot long trimaran hit the waters off Anacortes
in Washington State. This gigantic three-hulled vessel has a 158ft mast.
Nothing like this has ever been seen before and its proportions would
indicate that Ellison's BMW Oracle Racing team has covered all possible
bases. The entire structure was completed in a specially built complex in
order to control the temperature and humidity within fine limits.

The trimaran was launched by Melinda Erkelens, appropriately the legal
advisor of the Golden Gate Yacht Club through which Ellison's challenge was
lodged, on 22 August, 157 years, exactly, after the original race around the
Isle of Wight that began this competition. It marked the culmination of nine
months' work by the 30-strong design team and a vast number of builders,
involving a total of 80,000 man hours.

Construction is principally in aerospace-quality carbon fibre, chosen for
its high strength and lightness, and uses other materials more usually
associated with this high-tech industry. Nothing has been left to chance in
the design and construction of this boat and the sailing team is anxious to
begin sailing trials. The 500 square-metre mainsail - more than twice the
size of the ones used by the boats in the Cup races last year in Valencia -
was due to be put aboard yesterday and hoisted for the first time today. It
will be complemented by headsails of up to 350 square metres and asymmetric
spinnakers of up to 700 square metres - a total downwind sail area of almost
two football pitches. -- Bob Fisher The Observer, full story:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/aug/31/sailing

Anyone got pictures or video of this thing sailing? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: TJP

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/02/08 07:00 PM

Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/dogzillabuzz/BOR90InitialSeaTrial

Discussion, more photos, and video: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=77902

That thing is gonna be FAST...
Posted By: warbird

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/03/08 02:52 AM

Too much rig.
It will be reefed all of the time in AC sailing window.
Posted By: warbird

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/03/08 06:18 AM

More then anything the sight of this boat makes realize just how arrogant the mono sailors are. To imagine they will be up to speed with this boat is a joke.

XL
Posted By: Timbo

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/03/08 10:50 AM

Wasn't light air one of the problems they had in the last AC? I don't think they designed this thing for ocean racing around the world, more of a megga day sailor.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/03/08 07:06 PM

seems kind of pricey for a daysailer, doesn't it?
Posted By: TEAMVMG

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/03/08 07:09 PM

You haven't checked out the i-shares vx 40 results lately have you?
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/03/08 07:33 PM

For you an me... yes. But when uncle Larry cashes his paycheck they just weigh the pallets of cash.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/03/08 07:37 PM

what you mean everyone doesnt have a team of 30 working with space station grade carbon fiber in their barn (hanger)?
Posted By: Timbo

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/03/08 08:35 PM

"Pricey" is a relative thing, I just wish he were MY relative. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'd sure like a ride on that thing.
Posted By: F-18 5150

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 04:12 PM

now this looks like fun
[Linked Image] http://bmworacleracing.com/de/interactive/images_2008/erste_ausfahrt2/erste_ausfahrt_16.jpg
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 04:19 PM

mmmm bananna boards <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 04:37 PM



That looks very fast, and not very windy.....

I want one.......
Posted By: Jake

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 04:37 PM

ohhhh...that's some real eye-candy right there! What's it blowing in that picture? 8 maybe? Holy moly.
Posted By: Robi

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 04:39 PM

The wind may appear not very fast on the surface, but remember that mast is almost 200 feet high. That said the wind up there is very different than the wind on the surface.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 04:41 PM

it's 160 feet.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 04:53 PM

It is impressive to fly 2 hulls without hydrofoils
Posted By: John Williams

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 05:03 PM

Love how they're using spray suits with dark material at the seat... it won't show when they crap their pants at Mach II. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Robi

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 05:11 PM

Quote
it's 160 feet.
I couldnt remember the exact number, that is still pretty high up in the air. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: IndyWave

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 05:28 PM

Quote
Love how they're using spray suits with dark material at the seat... it won't show when they crap their pants at Mach II. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Maybe those are white pants, and they already did! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: dacarls

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 06:00 PM

Yes, I spot 'Naner boards' to add insult to injury...

Well, you can be sure that they will NEVER try to lift the lee hull out of the water, because that could be "Hydrofoiling", probably already declared illegal in the AC Challenge. OOoop? Nobody thought of that before because AC sailors never read this humble Catsailor Website?

Hooray for Larry! Another LAWSUIT!
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 06:40 PM

Quote
It is impressive to fly 2 hulls without hydrofoils


Fair number of tri's were doing this 10+ years ago.

I'm thinking of the "Apricot" series of Tri's and "Biscuits" series as being prime examples.
Posted By: Timbo

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 06:52 PM

Look at where Couts is standing to steer. Now look at where the traveler is. Now think about what's going to happen in a gybe. Russel had better move quickly or he might be cut in half! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

And how long is it going to take him to -run- from one wheel to the other during a tack, and who is steering while he makes the transition? Or is he on a teather, and he just jumps off the back and swings over to the other side? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: F-18 5150

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 07:15 PM

not that much travel in a gybe with the spin up. looks to me like the logic choice is to hand of the wind ward wheel go lee and have the gybe controlled from the lee to windward side .
Posted By: Jake

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 07:47 PM

Quote
Look at where Couts is standing to steer. Now look at where the traveler is. Now think about what's going to happen in a gybe. Russel had better move quickly or he might be cut in half! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

And how long is it going to take him to -run- from one wheel to the other during a tack, and who is steering while he makes the transition? Or is he on a teather, and he just jumps off the back and swings over to the other side? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


The steering station is actually off the rear beam well clear and aft of the traveler. I don't completely understand why it's where it is but getting to the other steering station looks to be a rediculously arduous task. I suspect that they may intend to have two helmsmen and they trade off in tacks and gybes while the other meanders into some position on the high side. Transitioning one helmsmen between stations on a boat that wide would leave a long time where the helm is not being managed well - no matter where the stations are located...from this perspective it makes sense to have two helmsmen. Maybe that's it?
Posted By: pepin

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 07:49 PM

Quote
Look at where Couts is standing to steer.
The one steering is Cammas, not Couts. At least they have the good idea to give the helm to somebody who knows how to steer a multihull. This should avoid repeat performance of the disasters they had with extreme 40 and Orma 60...
Posted By: Seeker

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 07:55 PM

Look at the hull shape...flat bottom and hard chines...the only way to get planing is with hard chines...as any power boater knows.

Regards,
Bob
Posted By: windswept

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 08:31 PM

Quote
it's 160 feet.

158 I believe.
Posted By: windswept

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 08:34 PM

Cammas is on the helm, but I believe Spithill is to helm as well.
Posted By: catman

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 08:41 PM

Quote
Too much rig.
It will be reefed all of the time in AC sailing window.


Looking at the latest pic's I would say they seem to have it figured out fairly well.
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 08:46 PM

Anyone got full stats for it.

I'm guessing luff of the mainsail is around 155feet, anyone know area? Ditto Jib and Kite.

LOA is 143 feet?

Weight?



yes, I am thinking of trying to calc an SCHRS for it ..... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Timbo

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 08:47 PM

I thought the LOA was only supposed to be 90 feet, and 90 feet wide.

It does look a bit different with the flat bottom hulls. Who designed it? And what about Alinghy? When is theirs going in the water?
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 09:05 PM

Quote
It does look a bit different with the flat bottom hulls. Who designed it? And what about Alinghy? When is theirs going in the water?


According to the Front Page of SA, early next year.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 09:13 PM

Quote
Anyone got full stats for it.

I'm guessing luff of the mainsail is around 155feet, anyone know area? Ditto Jib and Kite.

LOA is 143 feet?

Weight?



yes, I am thinking of trying to calc an SCHRS for it ..... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Alinghi sure wants the stats! (seems they are not too confident that appeal will be upheld)...all of that information is not yet public. The deed says something like "as soon as possible" for the boat certificate to be delivered to the defender...it says something similar for the defender to do the same for the location the event is to be held - a feat which Alinghi has not yet performed either.


Alinghi Letter to GGYC Aug 22
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 09:17 PM

LOL!!!! thats awesome!

Let me Paraphrase.... We want your stats! But you wont give them... even though your protest is baseless... and you dont deserve to race... waaaaaa
Posted By: F-18 5150

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 10:10 PM

5oo sq meters for the main
Posted By: Dan_Delave

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 10:53 PM

[Linked Image]

I was curious after reading here so: I put the picture into my CAD package and scaled it to 90ft for the hulls. I had to put a white box in the picture to show where the back of the closest hull was. I do not know if the 90 is exactly accurate. You can see the scale on the bottom of the picture. Then I drew an area around the sail including the mast. I came up with 4004 Sq Ft. If that is accurate then in meters it is about 375 Sq Meters.

Later,
Dan
Posted By: Dan_Delave

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/04/08 11:06 PM

[Linked Image]

In musing over it I realized that the height of the sail is almost the same as the width of the football field (160 ft.). The bottom of the sail is 37.5 feet. So if you could take the play the length of the boom you would have a first down.

With the jib and the spinnaker flying you would have about 1/4 the area of the grid of a whole football field. That's a lot of cloth!

Later,
Dan
Posted By: hobiegary

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/05/08 12:30 AM

Quote

Quote:
it's 160 feet.


158 I believe.


I think it is more like 157 feet, 5.76378 inches because that would equal 48 meters.

GARY <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: F-18 5150

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/05/08 03:16 AM

After leaving the dock at 11am, the team first hoisted the 5,000 square foot (500 meters square) mainsail up the 158-foot (48-meter) carbon fiber mast towering above the trimaran.
Posted By: erice

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/05/08 08:54 PM

click the video of it coming out of the shed for some video of it sailing

http://www.cammas-groupama.com/do/m...at=152&page=0&media=1988
Posted By: Timbo

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/06/08 02:31 AM

There is also a good video of them training for -match racing- on two 60 foot tris.
Posted By: F-18 5150

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/10/08 08:37 PM

The sails are similarly off the charts: a 5,000-square-foot mainsail; a 3,500-square-foot headsail; and 7,000-square-foot gennaker.

100 ft long main (90 at waterline) and 90 by 90 on the outside. just what they said 90 x 90
Posted By: cyberspeed

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! - 09/03/09 09:33 PM

Ok TJP,

What up with using my pre-cooler pic for your avatar?
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