Another Trap Harness Death

From Today's SA Front page:

<quote>Sail On
Peter "PJ" McGonigle Wenner, 19, A member of the University of Hawaii coed sailing team died this morning from injuries he sustained in a boating accident Saturday, UH officials announced he was sailing with several team members on a private high performance skiff off of Waikiki Saturday afternoon when the accident occurred, according to a UH news release. He was admitted to Straub Hospital in critical condition Saturday evening.

PJ was on a Phillipe Kahn sponsored Pegasus boat and according to one source, Shark was driving at the time, and they T-bagged and turned turtle in a lull. Peter "PJ" Wenner and Ryan Karnes were crew. Ryan is a past lifeguard, and strong swimmer. PJ was wearing a currently legal harness with no "Quick Release" buckle. In 2006 ISAF tried to make Quick-Release buckles mandatory, but was repealed. Ryan dove many times to untie half hitches to free PJ.

PJ was rushed to the hospital, and kept on a ventilator until the family could arrive and say good bye. “My heartfelt condolences go out to P.J.’s family and friends,” Jim Donovan, UH Athletics Director said. “P.J. was a loved member of the UH Athletics Department ohana. He touched so many lives at such a young age and we will miss him dearly.”

A memorial service is scheduled for 5:00 p.m. tomorrow at the Newman Center at UH-Manoa. The service is open to the public. A family service will be held in Los Angeles, next Tuesday.

Wenner, a sophomore, was a 2007 graduate of Loyola High School in Los Angeles. In September, he competed for the UH coed team at the Pacific Coast Conference Sailing Men’s Singlehanded Championships in San Diego, and took sixth place, according to UH officials.

“Peter represented everything good about being an athlete, sailor, and student here at the University of Hawaii,” said Andy Johnson, UH sailing head coach. “He was the heart and soul of our team and we will all miss him immensely.” Peter’s brother, Matthew Wenner, is a freshman on the coed team.

11/12/08</quote>

It's ironic that Skiffs lead Frank Bethwaite to develop the keyhole trap harness for this very risk.
I have been using this setup for years now on my T and have no major issues. It's much lighter than typical stainless hook & dogbone ring setups; It does not puncture holes in the deck/hull when new crew scramble aboard; It may save a life or two one day.

Tragic. Condolenses to friends and loved ones.

I switched to the Bethwaite system 3 years ago and now won't sail on boats that use the hook system.
It is brain dead that the ISAF did not adopt the Bethwaite system 4 years ago, instead chosing to wait until a fool-proof quick release system was developed.

Sometimes the followers must lead so that the leaders can follow.

Its a bit like car seat belts all over again. we know they save lives yet is still took years to make them mandatory. In some countries they are still not required.

I changed over to quick release harness as soon as they came out. still yet to deploy it by I am glad its there.

sorry to hear this...
where are the 1/2 hitches they were trying to untie?

I carry a nife in my lifevest.. that might have helped them... although in a panic, it may be tough to take out and use...

Mike,
You wouldn't call one breaking a "major issue". I have been considering them myself but at 260lbs, I'm not sold on the durability of them...especially after seeing one of your broken ones. I like the whole idea of them but in a distance race, that's one faliure that could cost a life.

I have never understood how one gets stuck with the old system, if i lean back to far i can fall right off the boat, of course i dont have a spring piece on my hook to keep the harness in (took it off)

The danger is not being stuck on your trapeze loop as this is usually mobile enough to move out. The danger is getting your hook stuck around a stay or a bridal or any line really...

For example you jump/slide/crash between the boom and the trampoline during a capsize and on your way down your hook catches lets say one segment of your nicely cleated 9 to 1 mainsheet. Your weight, now pulling on both the sheet and the boom, pulls the boat turtle pinning you under until you release that #$%^#@% hook. That's the danger.

Or you manage to hook onto the diamond wires on the mast while pitchpoling and pull the boat over. Got the scars to prove it;)

Release harnesses or the Bethwaite system is the way forward,

I think that one fatality in a UK skiff was when the hook got jammed in a fitting inside the hull as it turtled. it was stainless steel vs stainless steel so no knife would have helped

I never broke one of mine. They are the Carbon type...and have not heard of any failures on these. The original plastic ones did have a breakage issue. There is also an aluminum version that should be very solid indeed.

These units are available on Rick's Online store.

"I think that one fatality in a UK skiff was when the hook got jammed in a fitting inside the hull as it turtled. it was stainless steel vs stainless steel so no knife would have helped"

...except that you can (theoretically) use the knife to cut the person out of the harness.

Mike

I recall a story told to me by Alan Thompson. He capsized and got snagged under the tramp as she went turtle. He recalled not being able to inhale a full breath before being dragged under. He had a knife and tried first to saw through the mainsheet his leg or arm was tangled in. He mentioned getting to the knife was tough as one arm was tied up...luckily he had put the kife where he could access with either hand. Quickly realized he could not cut enough of the rope wraps fast enough, so tore into the tramp to get his head above water.
Things he told me to remember: 1. You likely will not have the chance to take a full breath of air as you go under, so you'll have less time than you might otherwise believe. 2. Knife needs to be as long as you can easily carry...shorties make line/tramp cutting much slower. 3. Knife needs to be accessible from either hand.

I had the misfortune of getting trapped under a boat this summer and believe me, it is scary. We capsized a Hobie 16 and it was not very catastrophic. The skipper stayed on the top hull and I let myself down easily by stepping on the boom and then sliding into the water. I was at the front beam when the boat went turtle and the jib car cought the back top of my life jacket right behind my head. It took me under and all I could get out was "I'm hooked" and that was it. I barely got a gulp of air because it happened so fast. I was in a panic and I don't think I had the air or calm to be able to get a knife or untie anything if I had to. Luckilly, the skipper was close to me and pushed me down to get me unhooked from the car. I was struggling so much to get up when I really needed to just push away from the boat. I just didn't expect to be in that situation. It was only a couple of seconds, but it seemed like a VERY long time.

It seriously put some fear in me.

In my case, I was wearing a kayak lifejacket that zipped on the side, so you had to put your head through the top. At the time, I started to struggle to take it off, but it would have been very difficult. I switched to a kayak jacket that zips up the front and is easier to get in and out of. I know a life jacket is a life saver and should be kept on, but in this case, it could have killed me.

I think that you should add to your safety check list something about quick release gear in general. I am amazed at the people I see that have something around their neck by a lanyard like a GPS or cat key.

I had a life jacket hand up also i now wear a rash guard over the harness and jacket so there is nothing to get cought.
it works really nice and add sunscreen protection to my arms.

What a horrible story. My sincere condolences to freinds and family.

I had a pitchpole last year some time on the hobie 16. My crew slid forward and got caught up by the trap hook on the downhaul ropes at the base of the mast. I just had enough time to swim up and lift her off of the ropes before she was dragged under when the boat went turtle.

The scary thing was that it happened so quick. Also she was wearing a very cool quick release harness bar from a french company. Neither of us remembered the quick release until we got back to the beach. So i agree with previous posts that you dont have much time and in an emergency situation you may not even remember your quick release/knife.

The bethwaite system sounds like it might be the go to prevent things like this happening again.

That's why I said "theoretically."

I am quite superstitious, so I don't want to say too much that could literally come back to haunt me, but sometimes, there is only so much you can do.

I've had some bad experiences with trap hooks too, and fortunately, have been very lucky.

I really do feel for the families of the lost sailors. Losing someone is never easy, for any reason.

Mike

Sorry to rain on your safety parade,

but nowhere in the SA article does it specifically state that the guy's buckle was fouled.

All it says is that he was wearing a harness without a quick-release buckle.



From the HONOLULU STAR-BULLETIN Thurs Nov 13 2008
http://www.starbulletin.com/news/20081112_..._team_hard.html

"When the boat Peter McGonigle Wenner was sailing in capsized Saturday afternoon, the 19-year-old became entangled in its canopy, trapping him underwater for about five minutes, authorities said...."



What's next? Do we outlaw CANOPIES? rigging? Arms and legs do get fouled in rigging, you know...


How about we learn to sail SAFER and TRAIN ourselves for these sorts of accidents rather than imposing regulation...?

It could be argued that quick release harnesses and such give a false sense of safety, which in itself can be dangerous.

For this reason I will not be rushing out to get one, but I will be reviewing my, and my crews, apparel for items that can catch. Will probably incorporate the rash vest over the harness and all its damn buckles. Alternatively I will get the buckles removed and sew the harness leg straps into position.

My bad, Mike, I thought you had the broken one I saw. It looked like it had the kevlar strands in it too.

I just bought a new harness and life jacket because i wanted to avoid all the extra buckles. I wasn't thinking safety at the time, just how annoying it is when you are dashing for the other side during a tack and the harness buckle gets caught on the trap wire or mainsheet, or something else. I can now see it is a safety issue to. The new stuff is way more comfortable too.

Tami,

I agree the article doesn't say explicitly the hook was caught, but it does say:

"PJ was wearing a currently legal harness with no "Quick Release" buckle. In 2006 ISAF tried to make Quick-Release buckles mandatory, but was repealed. Ryan dove many times to untie half hitches to free PJ."

The implication is it was an issue...why bring up harnesses in such detail if this was not an issue?

Please hop aboard the safety parade.

So let me understand this...safer or quick-release harnesses give a false sense of security, thus you won't be getting one...but you're going to take measures to reduce risks from snagging. How is that any different from a safer harness?

Huge issue financially for those selling safety hooks which would all need to be replaced at high cost strait away so there is a while lot of reasons to ramp up the commentary.

Safety is a problem for us all as we are all too safe. Every time one person dies for any reason authorities want to over react. Only sensible place for the mitigation of the loss of human life is not to sail.
I was watching some old Indianapolis footage and people died and the boys just kept racing. We are all soft now and getting softer.
What is the step too far?
People make safety hooks, if you want one buy one, if you don't be prepared to die if you are the one unlucky dude this last year out of all of the sailors on the planet who might have died because he was hooked up.
I looked into the ball style and too many people wrote into this forum and said they just dropped off the side of the boat...I sail all alone out past the Islands here with no boats in sight. What do I do if I fall off the side of my boat when it is going 15 knots in a big sea?
Where is the balance for me of how many times I can get back to my boat and how many times I am going to hook up and be drowned?
It is awful that someone died but he died with the freedom to have the ball style harness.
Are there any stories out there about the hook Saving a life? One such story a year would balance the deaths.
I had an experience where my leg was caught up in my mainsheet. Do I 86 the mainsheet?

Ball-style harness:
"too many people wrote into this forum and said they just dropped off the side of the boat"
Those stories resulted from using the plastic spreader plate made by Hobie.
There are no breakage issues with the aluminium or carbon/Kevlar spreader plates.

The only disadvantage is that the trapeze wire ball does not disengage from the harness by itself, you have to push it. Some skiff sailors claim this slows their tacks by some milliseconds.

Stein

The article at SA's was written by Tempesta, who inserted his opinion about the harness. The news articles don't mention anything about harness, only 'canopy.' Which is exactly why I looked to the news, because I wondered whether there actually was a harness issue. At this point, I've not seen any evidence from the news media reports which indicate the harness hung up.


I'll quote my response on the subject from SA:

"Back in the 70's and 80's, when Hobie was ruling the world, and thousands upon thousands were sailing the overpowered H16 with their scary old laceup harnesses, did you see legislation come out about changing harness design? No... the MAST was legislated. Which is fucked up right there, but that's another argument.


We have enough outside involvement in our lives and a depressing trend towards absolution of individual responsibility. Get the kiss outta my business. DON'T tell me how to equip myself."

No one here has brought up legislating anything. Chill out.

I always thought you were humorless, now I'm sure. Have a nice life.

Tornado,
Yes, you have indeed brought up legislating things... the SA article you quote is a chastisement of ISAF for not enforcing the quick-release rule. That rule would be legislation. No thanks, really, no more steenkin' rules.


Pete, as usual, you have nothing salient to say. Apparently you have no ability to make a real argument thus your need to degenerate to insults.

More details on the incident...apears it was the hook:

"Wild was on the recreational boat with Wenner the day of the accident, 1.5 miles off Waikiki Beach. The high-performance skiff, which capsizes easily if not moving forward, had already capsized five times that day. On the recreational boat were teammates, instructors — all experienced sailors.
Wenner, wearing a harness, was standing off the edge of the boat. When the boat started to tip, he knelt down, and the harness hook got caught in the weblike netting that stretches between the hull and the outriggers of the boat, Wild said.
"Almost immediately someone from the chase boat jumped off and tried to save him," Wild said. Everybody already in the water dived down and "tried as hard as they could to free P.J."
It took a while before they figured out where the problem was.
"It was twisted so tight, we couldn't free that," he said. "We were all diving underneath," Wild said, but without goggles "we couldn't see how to free him."

I think it would be really hard to twist-up my aluminum ball harness plate in anything like mesh. The ball has never come out, if it was in the slot in the first place: 4 years racing in the ocean now on my A-cat.

Also- Wearing a long-sleeve rash-guard over the top of everything really helps to NOT stick the tiller extension thru your life jacket arm-hole or strap. I really hated it when that happened.

I was dumped by my quick release last weekend in 28 mph winds. Crew took over and single handed the boat back to me. If he had gone over it would have been a long swim back to shore. I have since flipped the release to face down. Video is on youtube "Wet Kitty Catamaran". the release is just a few seconds after the video stops.

Condolences to the family.
we all hate to hear these things. take heed. No fear.

Condolences to the sailors family. Loss of life is a terrible thing.

But it happens less in sailing than many sports and just life in general. After all it's living that kills you.( If you don't live you can't die).

As far as trap hooks go, I rescued a cat sailor that was caught under the tramp on a wire strop that connected the Boom Vang. But it wasn't caught on the hook it was caught behind the plate that held the hook. Just can't fix every possible cause of entrapment.

Have fun and don't do anything that "you" are not comfortable with, that's as safe as you can get.

I am pitching a sailing program for TV at present and have written a few sail quotes I created. I went back to them after reading this again and found these.


"Risk on the water must be mitigated with a rigorous attitude of crossing "t"s and dotting "i"s."

"Plan to be upside down and see right way up as a plus. Plan for rough, cold weather and see warm, calm as a plus. No matter who says the weather will be fine, do not believe them. Ever."

"I am happy with the risk that the sea presents to me because I know I have enough experience but more importantly enough forward planning to give me a good chance of survival if I have no chance of outside help."

" Rough weather is no time not to take risks. It is those very risks that keeps one safe and that is the beauty of it."

Sailing is a risk and I am all for it. That is not to say we should not take care.

Sail safe and sail fast..well I will because it is the season down here.