n20 mast

this was just sent to my e-mail. Looks like an aluminum stick is in our future.

FYI

Copy of the letter sent to N20 class members



[ Nacra N20 Sailors

In August 2007, do to an increase in pricing of the carbon mast, the F17 Class was notified that the factory was going to make the Nacra Infusion aluminum mast extrusion standard for the F17. The project took about 6 months to get the F17 aluminum mast up to speed with the carbon rig. It took team work and diligent testing to get the project completed by utilizing two sail makers working with top 17 sailors. The goal was to have a mainsail match the bend characteristics of the aluminum mast and be equal to the performance of the mast /sail plan of the carbon rig. The top F17 class members were in agreement that the Nacra F17SW (alu) was up to speed with the F17 carbon rig. [note: F17 North American results for 2008 out of the top four boats, two were aluminum rigs & two carbon rigs]

For the last six months, Performance Sports Int’l, Inc. has been working on that section to be used as an optional mast on the N20.. Due to the bend characteristics of the longer aluminum mast, a new mainsail is needed for development. Also under consideration is a possible lower spin bail location which means a slight change to the spin. Just like the F17 project, this development is needed to ensure the equality of performance.

Nacra will have a number of top N20 sailors teaming with the same two sail makers to give the same developmental effort to the new rig. If favorable, a proposal to the class will be sent out by spring 2009.

International Nacra Class Association

1800 East Borchard Ave.

Santa Ana, Ca.

USA ]

Aluminum N20 wingmast already delivered in Singapore:
https://boatsbikesboards.wordpress.com/

Edit: Also, Taddypoo NOT HAPPY about alum masts.

First off, having sailed with one of their top 17 sailors for more than 10 years now (Bob Curry), anyone who knows Bob's ability can easily recognize the difference in talent level when looking at the 2008 NA Results. Bob has put on professional level campaingns the last several years on the N17, which have been part of the boat development. Not to even dream of taking anything away from Bob's talent (natural and developed), one could easily say Bob could beat you with an extra XX lbs onboard (i.e. heavier mast).

In case you can't tell yet, I bought into an N20 over a year ago and love the carbon stick. We all expected to see this development come eventually with the rising costs of carbon (although not sure they shouldn't come down eventually). I would like to see the list of top teams who will be doing the development, and be kept up to speed on developments and results. I don't think you should be taking Mischa or Macca and putting them up against a Joe-the-plumber weekend warrior such as myself. While I have a lot of tiller time over the 30+ years I've been sailing, this must be a realistic trial period. Only thing I've seen so far is someone in Singapore who has never sailed an N20 before. Not sure how he gets one of the first batch?

its not his "fault". He was basically given an option to take the alum mast now, or wait 6 months for a carbon one.

I would have taken the Alum too.

It's not going to be that bad. I believe it's actually the only solution that can prolong the class. The modern aluminum mast will probably weigh very close to the carbon stick and be more of a wing profile. I am a little concerned, however, that they may be lowering the bail and reducing the kite size.

There was chatter awhile back about a "double spreader rig" ,I guess lowering the bail is the cheaper solution.Smaller kite would suck. Although a few have been going out small lately anyway. It's an option I don't want to have to take.
Todd
p.s. Karl how'd you get on a mailing list???

Definitely agree with you guys on the lower bail and smaller spin.
If any changes are made they need to make sure to try to keep all current equipment on a level playing field, having a smaller spinnaker would make all the current spinnakers have a clear advantage.

I also got the email... must have been automatically added from N.A.'s

I don't think the lowering of the bail will be a bad thing, especially if it is less the 12". You can lengthen the leech and foot to keep the same sail area with the same sheeting point. Might be the optimum time to also update the draft and fullness! I think it will all be good. Plus, it will be more affordable. Just look at what we did with the F17!

Testing of this magnitude will produce interesting results, both positive and negative. Please keep in mind the testing results will most likely not be made public. There were approximately nine F17 prototype sails made before the final versions. Like the F17, the end result will be fantastic.

Bob
F17 Class Home Page

Probs I have with changing the kite also is, You break your mast and you have to buy a mast, a main, and a kite. Still probably way cheaper than a new carbon mast but it negates all your spare sails also.
Just thinking ,
Todd

Lowering the bale will mean a shorter luff; this will give a lower aspect sail. Thus slower.

Yes you can add back area by making the leach and foot longer, but this will put you at a disadvantage against the longer luffed sails.

Luff length is king.

wonder if the boat's rating will go to 66.7 also when it gets a mast like the N17....

That was part of my point too.

I still don't like it. I don't see why an alternative carbon mast supplier wasn't more vigorously persued.

I don't think it would change the situation that much. The new mast (using modern construction methods) would have different bend characteristics...though you could design it to leave the spin hoist height the same.

So I'm assuming that the carbon stick will be grandfathered into to the class rules so we wont be forced to get rid of it... I hope.

If they change the spin it will hurt the class. Period.

This is all (the alum. stick) a mute point if the N20 new MSRP is not priced in the mid to high teens. After all, there have not been alot of $25K boats sold, if any. I "believe" the new boats (carbon rigs) that went to P'cola last month were acquired at the old price (<$20K). You would expect the new price to be similar to the Infusion price. My thoughts here are concerning the US market.

Not saying it is Singapore N20's fault.....but would expecet the development by top sailors as stated to take place before it went out into open market.

Does anyone know how much weight the alum masts will add to the boat? And what generation mainsail did Singapore N20 get?

Jus tgot word that an '09 N20 showed up in SoCal with the alum mast. Its gone domestic. I don't know if its a "testing" boat or not, nor who the owner is.

don't worry guys, the new alloy rig was tested properly before release, some might say it was pushed really hard

I went for a quick sail today on the Singapore boat and its great, for anyone who doubts the rig is equal to the carbon stick, say try it out before you condem it.

Macca,

How much more / less does the Alu mast weigh. The old Carbon one was built like a tank I am told.

C'mon Macca ,spill the beans.

Todd
p.s. Love those VX 40 vids, just get a decent cameraman.That one's funny lookin'.

I think th weight difference is negligible, anyone who has lifted a N20 carbon mast knows its no featherweight! particularly if you have a Marstrom T mast next to it....

I'm not that interested in the mast weight since I realize that the carbon one isn't that light, but I am worried about the fact that I just laid out $3000+ at the beginning of the year for a new main and spin - presumably going to be obsolete by this mast. If the bail is lower on the mast for a smaller chute, thats unacceptable.

Andrew,
Tested by whom, . . . where, . . . when?

Pesumeably they are using the Infusion mast extrusion at required length.
It would be silly of them not to.

I don't think length is the spin bail issue,I doubt they'd shorten the mast. I'm guessing it's strength above the hounds, i.e. lower bail gets it closer to the supported section.There was word floating around awhile ago about double spreaders for support,but that's alot of weight aloft.
Todd

Hoist height is the same guys, no change.

testing was done by Nacra Europe team.

Karl,

In your note from them, did they offer any price estimate for a new N20 with this setup? Or prices for replacement aluminum stick, main and spin?

I liked the "idiot resistant (not idiot proof)" toughness of the carbon mast, but if the aluminum one is as tolerant, is recycleable, and cheaper.....

How did the wing shape affect the performance as seen by the testers? Would we be correct in presuming the mast rotation settings would be different?

And they need something other than a 10:1 mainsheet? Because of the taller mast?

ANNNDdddd, not to anyone in particular.... has a carbon 20 mast been successfully repaired?

New Alum mast pics up at velocitysailing.com

Big Thanks to Scott McCook from Singapore for sending them to me!

Where does that line go and what does it do that is going down into the board well?

Also I noticed the diamonds go into the mast here. I'm assuming the mast is sealed above that point? Where do those diamonds attach at the bottom? And how do you adjust diamond tension?

I hope this all works out. I'm very concerned about it.

I used to hoist that 6.0 and H20 mast and they were a lot heavier.

I also really hope that the hoist hieght is not changed on the spin. That would be really disappointing. Our current kite already uses the entire hoist hieght without an inch to spare.

Look at pages 19 - 21 of the Infusion Assembly Manual to get your answers regarding the mast plug and how to change the diamond tension.

Nacra Infusion Assembly Guide

The diamonds appear to be setup just like the infusion mast...which is a really slick system. There is a foam plug above the diamond wire hole in the bottom of the mast to seal the rest of the mast. Diamond wire tension is adjusted with a big nut at the bottom of the mast...really easy, really slick. I really like having the rotation limiter down low too.

These developments are all coming out of the F18 class and it will be nice to have them on a 20.

Yeah, great for those of us that just blew a wad of cash on a new trampoline without the proper gromets to upgrade! :P

Gromits are easy to add....

Not when you have a tramp bag in the area where those grometts are supposed to go.

Well, that's your own fault ;-)

Ahhh yes,

I forgot to invoke my innate clarivoyance and tell the sailmaker exactly how to make a new trampoline for a rotation system that neither of us had any idea was coming.

I do not understand all the complaining about the alu mast, for months now, a lot of people were discussing the high price of the carbon mast. now there is a new alu mast to overcome the problem and now this... i'm lost here

How often are you guys breaking masts?

Can you use your old rotator system on the new mast? Seems like you could with a little "tweaking".

personally I'm upset because it doesn't appear that they made ANY effort to find a different carbon mast supplier that could supply the SAME mast for a more reasonable cost that wouldn't obsolete every sail in my inventory!

If you've got a Ferrari with an engine problem do you replace said engine with a prius engine.
Masts don't get broken often but for most of us the thought of $11,000 for a new one limits how hard your willing to push it.
I have no problem with the Aluminum mast if all you have to change is the main, as long as it's competitive. I only have 4 I-20 mains that would be useless, which kinda sucks ,but I can replace all my mains and the mast for less than the carbon mast.I guess I can make duffle bags out of 'em. We'll see what shakes out, if it lowers the price of the boat, stays as fast, and gets more people sailing them it's a good thing.
Todd
p.s. Tad, your fortune telling skills suck. You shoulda just asked Will! And Tad Jack said he made an effort to find a builder, I just don't know how much effort.

As usual, I was being a smart @ss....

Go figger.

Guys, a LOT of effort was made to source a new builder, but with projected volumes and tight requirements on the built spec to maintain the same bend and weight as current masts its just not a viable option. Trust me it was explored to the full.

The Alloy mast is a great option, the grade of alloy used and the weight for size is much better that in use from any other manufacturer and the only real change is to the mainsail but how many times do you break a mast and not destroy the mainsail?? plus if you have 4 old mains lying around (not that you us them much..) you can simply change the luff curve and they will work just fine. (as well as old sails will anyway for club races etc)

Plus you get the nice infusion style setup with the diamonds and cunningham etc

Thanks for the information Andrew,
Is there a new mainsail cut or are you using the old stock setup? . . . and, in testing, have you raced the alloy rig against the classic carbon? If so, how much? Again thanks for the updates.

Have I-20s always had carbon mast?

How much does it weigh.... how much more then the carbon stick..... Is it on par with the Tornado tear drop alu stick of old or closer to the back breaking nacra 6.0 NA stick ?

(you need to know when to run when they ask for help in raising the stick)

Si!

Really, I believe mine is alum. from southern spars.

Really, I think mine is alum. and from southern spars.

Unless your boat is an '09 or a non-class boat, then your mast is carbon. And yes, Southern Spars did make our stick.

Humm, it's a '04 It thumps like alum and scratches like it and even drills like it. Maybe I got cheated by the dealer.

Th mainsail cut was changed to suit the new style mast, but it would be possible to recut the luff curve on an old sail to get it to work pretty well with the new mast.

testing as done with old v's new and the difference was negligible pretty much straight away.

I'm assuming that the extrusion is the same as on the Nacra Infusion...and if that is the case, I would not be surprised if the mast is nearly the same weight as the current carbon mast. Nacra made a huge reduction in the aluminum mast weight with the Infusion. The carbon mast on the I20 is very heavy compared to modern carbon laminations....it's old school carbon.

I haven't weighed them both together personally, but from carrying them around and raising them there is no difference really.

yes.

I think Mike Krantz told me it was less than 10 lbs. difference.I do like the section shape better,lot more chord length.It'll be interesting to see the price.
Todd

Cool. Could you elaborate?

Marstrom sells the Tornado carbon stick for ~$5k. I got mine back when it was $4k. Can't understand what a heavier, less tightly controlled I20 stick should cost $11k. Did anyone approach Marstrom for a design quote?

Mike.

I've heard that the marstrom name was dropped to the manufacturer by someone who is very influential in the overall rig design.

Also the N20 mast is 2' taller I believe than the Tornado mast.

So, you get 2 extra feet for a mere $5k more?

Seriously, Marstrom can make a mast to any required spec...spar-making is their main busniess. They should be able to make an I20 mast for well under $11k...possbily well under the $5k T-baot sticks since flex tolerances/weight are presumably less strict.

when you compare the price for Tornado masts from marstrom you have to consider that he knew he would be making more than 100 masts in avery short period of time and that he had a vested interest in supplying the class.

If marstrom were to make masts for another class such as the N20 they would have to make new moulds to suit their production methods (approx 40k USD) and then build to the same spec as the old masts which isn't their prefered way. So when you throw in the very low volume of sales projected.... the cost per mast blows out to unreasonable levels.

Is this speculation or facts after an inquiry/quote?
With the cost difference ,it would only take 7 masts to make up the tooling cost.

I'm sure it wouldn't matter now, even if Marstrom, Hall,Guck, etc. masts were dirt cheap. PC opted for the Infusion extrusion and that's the way it'll be rather the N-20 owners like it or not(who asked?). Makes better financial sense for them to use the same extrusions. No stocking worries of separate masts.Better buys on extrusions etc.
If the boats will be as fast with the Alu mast as the old carbon one ,think how much faster they'd be with a newer marstrom,hall,guck,whoever mast. If they did turn out, faster everybody would be upgrading just like was done with the rudders ,the tramp, the self tacker,etc.. There's your volume increase. I don't see everybody jumping on the teched down version even if it's the same. That carbon mast(as clunky as it may be) carries a mystique, just about everybody else has aluminum.Yeah, maybe that's vain, but I'm willing to bet I'm not the only one that feels that way.
Andrew, Thanks for the input and info as there seems to be a void in that dept. from anybody else in the know.

Todd

Personally, I don't think it's "tech down". The carbon mast on the 20 is a stump. It was designed a loooong time ago before modern mast making methods and fiber orientation and placement were refined. It's way heavier than it needs to be and is very unresponsive to adjustments (that's why "full downhaul" means permanent hand scarring).

F18s across the world, on the other hand, have done an incredible amount of development and alloy research to achieve a super-light and responsive wing section mast for their boats. I've sailed them and the masts are incredible. I'll put a good bit of money down that the "development" on the new sails is largely to make sure the performance isn't increased too much. The F18s I've sailed against with the 20 is outrunning me now in almost every condition...it's not the hulls and the boat weights are the same.

And now I'm just busting your chops...but at a 15% profit on a $10,000 stick, it takes 27 masts to break even. That's probably two years worth of Nacra 20 sales. If they're a more reasonable $7000, it takes 38 masts.

"And now I'm just busting your chops...but at a 15% profit on a $10,000 stick, it takes 27 masts to break even. That's probably two years worth of Nacra 20 sales. If they're a more reasonable $7000, it takes 38 masts."

Not if your getting $11,000 for a $5,000 stick.

Well it is here we have a never been in the water yet new N-20
with an Alum. Mast and the beat news the sails are not made by E/P (MBYC San Diego) All up that's 14-15 N-20s here. That's all I know so don't ask any questions

I think a drawback to a Hall/Marstrom/etc mast would be durability. In use, I'd expect them to be about as tough as the current carbon stick, however since their masts are not as over built as the old stick, I wouldn't push it as far.

I can say from first hand experience, the M20 mast is LIGHT LIGHT LIGHT, in the realm of A-cat light. To get the mast that light, there is a LOT of material that's been left out compared to the Southern Spars/Omohundro stick. After a break on a M20 mast, while looking for a replacement, Ben Hall told me that masts in this range could be damaged by someone squeezing too hard with a bare hand on the tube! What are you going to do, start putting a sticker on it that says, "caution, don't squeeze"? While handling that mast, I know I have a little pucker factor and am extra careful. It just doesn't feel as robust as the I20 mast.

Now, if you go to Marstrom's website, right now the M20 mast with VAT is listed as 8,415.13 USD after the exchange rate (6,562.5 Euros). That mast is only three feet longer than the I20 mast. I'd not expect making the mast shorter to significantly affect it's price. For reference, the A and T masts are right around 5,100 USD. I think there was some agreement with the T class a/b locking a price in but I don't know for sure. Factor in shipping... another 1k USD?

You can't deny that the I20 sailors are going to want a heavier mast. Now, they may not want the weight, but they will need the strength. We put these boats in places where you really should just stay on the beach. Do you want to be on the water and have such a fragile mast as your partner?

I've seen a broken I20 and M20 mast first hand. Put them side by side and there would be no comparison for wall thickness of the tube. I think that as cool as the Marstrom/Hall/etc option would be, there's some inherent liabilities to Performance unleashing such a delicate mast on the general public.

I always wondered a/b the Riba/Bim 18HT tube. Beef it up...?? Seems like it's tube was a little tougher. Given the options, the Al stick sounds to me like the best option. Regardless though, PC is going to have plenty of people b*tching a/b a mast change, regardless, so they were damned if you do, damned if you don't.

-- flame on -- My turkey needs to be roasted anyway!

Will thanks for the valuable insight into the Hall and M20 masts.

I can't tell if you are for or against the aluminum mast.

I heard of a recent incident where a M20 pitchpoled and the mast snapped. I was wondering why it would do that, but I guess it's a wall thikness issue? Or was the mast stuck in the mud on the bottom or something else?

The only other incident I've heard of a mast breaking during a pitch pole was an A cat but the mast hit a mark on the way over, which provided the lever to snap it.

I love my alum. wing mast on my Blade, if the new I20 mast is the same section, just longer, it should be an improvement over the shape of the present I20 carbon pole. What the wt. difference will be is unknown, I know an A cat mast weighs about half of what the alum. F16 mast weighs (19lbs. vs 36lbs. or there abouts) Anyone weighed their stock carbon I20 mast?

I dont know how the I20 masts were built, but Marstrøm masts are built with pre-pregs in autoclaves. If the I20 carbon masts were done with wet layup and different fibers/cloth, you can get both the toughness and light weight if Marstrøm was to build them with his methods. I dont know the design parameters for the M20 mast, but it was probably not designed for toughness.

His deal with the Tornado class was that he was the sole manufacturer for two years (I think it was two years), then anybody could license the design and get moulds.

Do I have to be for or against it?? I think they were backed into a corner on the mast issue and made what is probably the best pick of the options available.

If you think a/b the angular velocity of the mast head as it hits the water, it might as well be a solid. If they pitchpolled hard enough, I'd think it plausible that it broke before it got to the bottom. When I saw the thickness on that mast tube, I said, "really, that's all that's made of!!!"

Those things are works of art and designed to the limits of engineering and design stress. I think there is a greater margin for error with the old stick... but that's why it's heavier.

What is the rationale behind that? Better building materials and process can give the same strength/impact resistance/durability as a heavier mast built with a different process and materials. Do you know how the old I-20 carbon masts were built?

Jake,
I agree with Will, there's no need to be for or against. I'm not , I just want to see the boat progress if there is a change. Not be engineered to stay static. I still think it's a convenience for the factory to use the same extrusions, and that's what made the decision.
What's a new Infusion mast cost? 'cause isn't that the main issue,$11,000 carbon vs.????? Aluminum.

Who are the 2 testing sailmakers and who got to test it?
Anybody know?

Rolf I firmly believe you are right. Check out enclosed pic and see if you can determine how it's built. I would guess just lay-up.

I think I remember seeing something on Southern's website showing these sticks being made in a split female mold. The layup was done then the molds clamped together and then a bag was inserted and inflated to consolidate the laminate. The wall thickness on the mast is considerably more than some of the more modern masts which would suggest that there are alot of fibers in the 90 degree orientation (hoop) which would make the mast alot tougher without being alot stiffer (these masts are not stiff!).

Personally, I'm ok with the Al. stick provided the price of a new boat drops. Can't grow the fleet when a new boat is $24K. I think we can grow the fleet if a new boat is in the $16-17K range.

I would also really like to see more movement in the sail development, as Jake said, the latest generation of F18's are about as fast as the 20 in all but the lightest breeze.

So who said to put an M20 mast on an I20? I suggested getting Marstorm to build an I20 mast...to spec. It should not cost $11k, that was my point.

Marstrom had a 2 year exclusive on the Tornado mast to let Goran make back tooling costs. That has expired, so in theory, others can make a T mast, but is must be to the layup scedule Marstrom came up with...and a royalty is to be paid. That alone kinda makes it tough for a new builder to stepup...I've also heard Marstrom has not released the layup schedule...apparently going against the original agreement with the class.

The T class has decided to go one-design. Marstrøm is the selected mast... in fact, Marstrøm is the selected boat.

I thought it was already one design. Do you mean now it's "one manufacturer"?

Yawn; T was NEVER one design until now.

You could design Tornado hulls with a tolerance of 10mm here and there. Enough to make things interesting. Lots of things not regulated too strictly in the class rules and thus open to development. Now it goes one design, but I dont think it is finalized exactly how strict one design it is going to be.

I think it was the T used(?) to have a measurement tolerance of 1" in section at each hull measurement station.

Cheshirecatman

Yes, but A-cat mast won't hold up F16 use (2-trap, spi, etc)

The lightest F16 carbon masts (without corrector weights) are about 26 lbs or roughtly 75% of an alu F16 wingmast. Note that such a carbon F16 mast requires corrector weights to be F16 compliant ! A compliant F16 carbon mast is about 28 lbs (80%)

The F16 carbon masts so far have proven to hold up under general abuse. I think since 2002 two carbon masts have been broken, one because the diamond wire snapped.

Wouter

A standard BIMARE 18HT section should be fairly good for the N20 (it is considered too stiff by a large majority of 18HT owners).
It scales up at just under 16 Kg or 35 lbs (its "heavy" weight is due to its "low" profile - 145 x 59 mm).
In Europe the complete mast retails at 3,300 EUR (USD 4,290)

Wouter, is there a formula to calcualte the weight of a mast (lets make it a uniform tube) based on the tip weight; I can work out a rough approximation based un the summation of torques at points along the tube but that will not be accurate enough for some....

In Madrid, the T-class presented their new plan. All hulls will come from the same mould (nearly all already do), one mast has been chosen, one supplier of foils, one sailmaker with only one pattern, one supplier of hardware and all of it mounted in the same place on every boat. They're calling it "total one-design" to distinguish it from the previous one-design Tornado.

I'm not Wouter, but the answer is no.

A tip weight of 10.5kg could either be an 11 kg mast (1 kg extrusion with a 10kg weight at end) or a 21kg mast with a constant weight throughout, or for that matter a 1T mast with most of the weight at the base.

For the most part I'm fine with the aluminum mast. Most likely there will be more consistency from mast to mast, I'm guessing the weight is comparable. The one thing I'd question is the diamond adjuster block being made of brass (from the Infusion assembly guide). How long before the threads are toast? I'm assuming there's enough miles on the Infusion to validate it, but still...

This thread went through a lot of side-bars, still waiting to hear exact weight difference and cost of new boat, from people "in the know" (i.e. Nacra Europe).

I'm with you John, seems the price has been asked more than a few times, as well as WHO tested the new rig, etc. . .

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this one of the reasons why the T went to a carbon stick? Wasn't it because some campaigns were ordering multiple alum sticks and picking which one worked for them since they all differred so greatly from one another?



and I second this statement.
(or third..whatever)

So I'm curious on this decision...doesn't the class membership need to vote on such an important issue? We had to vote on previous, less important issues.

Decisions with class member consulation (unlike the I20 going to a new alu mast) has always been an important aspect of the T-class...to me any way.

Maybe, there is to be a NEW class called the "one-design Tornado" which will be used by the rockstars for the ollies and campaigns. All current T's will remain "Tornado's".

I dont see how they can do such a thing and still qualify as an international ISAF class. Surely there will be a vote, and I think the changes will pass. If current tornado class members dont have this information, I think they should ask the ITA (I let my membership elapse when we sold the boat).

Undecided, you are partly right. The top teams went through a lot of masts to find the one suiting them bests. Dies for extrusion change over time and together with other variables this was a big enough concern for top teams to spend funds on. What caused the definitive change over to carbon masts was when some teams began developing special profiles and alloys which others could not buy on the market.

So if I snap an aluminum mast (any type of boat), do I get any credit toward the purchase of a replacement if I send back the broken parts?

Or should I just drop them off at my local metal salvage station and get the $ per kg credit...?

What's the current cost of aluminum?

And what do I do with a broken carbon mast (presuming it can't be repaired)? Grind it up and use it as landscape mulch?

You cry for a while, try to mount the parts over the fireplace at home only to cry some more when your wife makes you throw your creative work in the bin.
Seriously, they can often be repaired. If not, put them in storage or donate them to a project.

Where did the carbon mast break?

Is there enough left so it might be cut down for use on a different boat?

Sell it to a big boat campaign as a carbon boom.

I personally have never broken an N20 mast, but I figure it would only be a matter of time with my "extrodinary" skills at breaking stuff.

I'm just looking at the possible "green" side of aluminum vs. carbon.

My trophy consisting of a small section of Ryan's N6.0 aluminum mast does look rather nice on my bookshelf. I guess you could cut a broken carbon mast into sections and make trophies out of them for future regattas....

And if N20 carbon masts can be successfully repaired, why aren't they? Did the insurance company require you to toss out the broken mast?

Aren't you missing a key requirement that would preclude the breaking of said mast?

I didn't say "MY" mast. I said "A" mast....

Are you saying I can't break yours?

I probably should have... I think I truly pitchpoled only once (the rest were bow burying stops followed by sideways capsize) because I sent Slaughter around the forestay so hard I saw his outline on the lee of the spinnaker before he went under.

Can't remember where we were, but I think it was over on this coast for a weekend regatta (maybe Tradewinds?). It was 1/2 way to C and we were seriously trucking down on a bunch of ya'll double trapping because there was an offset mark at A and a slight windshift. Big puff stuffed the bows and made that Kodak moment for Slaughter. I think the PRO heard the F word from Slaughter despite the wind noise.

Insurance companies dont generally care about the broken sections and you can usually keep them.

I have repaired 3 carbon masts, its a fairly complex repair.

On my HT mast the break was a compound fracture, and I had to make a cast to recreate a shattered 12x4 inch section of the mast. I used this missing spot to do both the internal repair and the external repair at the same time on one side. I then repaired the other side from the outside. I still have this cast in case anyone breaks an HT mast. Gettting a new one from Italy is about $5k and that was a 2005 price.

Most carbon mast breaks I've seen including the i20 and Acat masts are much cleaner breaks.

For all 3 masts, I ground off the splintered area using a dremel and got back to solid material. For the Acat and i20 mast I created a hollow internal sleeve that served as a way to align and add structure to the repair. (This is a bit tricky and I now have a mold for both Acat and i20 sleeves) The last step is to taper back the old material and add layers of new material. This step is easy and straight forward.

So the question is why isnt this done as a matter of common practice? The answer is that
1. If you had to pay someone to fix them it would be expensive if they didnt have a method to do it.
2. It changes the bend charactoristics of the mast.
3. Its easier to get a new one.

The interesting thing about the HT mast is that Peter Cogan made me a beautiful kevlar square top main, and he has recommended a stiffer mast to hold the square top section in breeze. So the HT mast works as good or better than it did originally, especially in big breeze.

Many of the Acat sailors are actually adding carbon to their masts to stiffen them up for the newer square top mains, so an older Acat mast could be repaird and used competitively I believe.

The i20 Mast might be a stiff in the middle. If you can test the bend charactoristics of a new carbon mast, you could tune the repair so that it bends in the same range. If you did that, I'd bet that you wouldnt be able to tell once you were sailing it.

Anyone who wants a mast repaired is welcome to send them to me in CT. I can either fix it for a fee, or sell you a sleeve and instructions or buy the mast from you.

The i20 mast is for sale as well.

Bill.

The manufacturer of the mast would only replace it if you could prove it was defective. Which is probably not the case, and would be hard to prove.


The good news is that you can make an insurance claim on a broken mast. I dropped my Dart 16 mast and dented it in the middle. The insurance company paid for a new one plus shipping from England.

I've received *rough* measurements on the N20 stick in Singapore from Scott who provided me the previous pics:

How do they stack up to the current mast?