Anybody else unemployed?

I'm not really unemployed, I preffer the term "self-unemployed", but its been a really tough year. I'm running out of savings and it sucks! I started my cabinet shop in 2004. 04' wasn't great. 05' wasn't too bad. 06' was pretty damn good. 07' was rockin. 08' has been shite. Starting around this time last year things started to fall apart. A couple of really good jobs fell through, and its been all downhill since. I haven't done one single job this year that was either a decent size or had much profit in it.

I had one employee. Started him green, he was just getting good too, and I had to let him go. I was just starting to build steam, things were getting better, the jobs were getting better, and I was befinning to make pretty good money. I was building momentum, now I feel like I'm back where I was my second year, but not as single, or living as cheaply.

The only thing that has been good is that all of the cabinet shops around me are starving too. I still have very little debt, (truck payment and a mortgage thats all), and the business carries zero debt. All of the shops that have big debt are in serious trouble right now. Many have gone out of business and I've bought alot of equipment. Probably smart buying equipment cheap, probably not so smart burning up my reserve doing so.

I'm just pissed off and venting. Make that, poor, pissed off, and venting.

Carpenters in Iraq can make up to $15k a month though! Seriously considered it, its gotta be safer than working in DC, Philly, or Detroit

Yep; got credit Crunched out of my investment banking job in sept.

Now a part time Ski instructor. being an SI, will streach the redundancy out some more; but I think we have another 2 years(maybe) of dosh and then the poo hits the fan.....

Client I saw today who works for a large commercial fittings company here in Adelaide told me that his company is only just holding and haven't laid any staff of.... yet.

Karl
the trouble is, it's the companies with the big debts that have got us all in this mess. they will be the 1st ones to fold and disappear, so if you can keep your company going, or at least on show in the meantime - you will be there to benefit when things do get going.
the good thing about a trade like carpentry is that you can try to go out and find some work rather than sit and wait in a shop or on the end of a phone for someone to come and buy something.
One door closes and another opens somewhere

Paul [Carpenter/builder]

I think the situation in the UK is a lot worse than people are admitting. My wife lost her job earlier this year when the airline she worked for stopped trading. She won't appear on any of the lists of unemployed as I am working so she does not count. Loads more people are now employed on temporary contracts, lots of my friends have lost jobs in the auto industry and as they are contract staff so they won't count either.

Many people are too proud to register as unemployed, or will have lost a skilled job and taken an unskilled job just to get by, these kind of people won't count.

The other consequences you don't see are people who now have to work unsociable hours at the detriment of their family, I was talking to a guy yesterday who says his factory has to work Xmas day to meet orders, normally they would be able to turn down this kind of work but not now.

There is no doubt its tough out there.

Gareth

I appreciate the fact that people are having hard times....

However, I've worked more 16 hour days in the past 3 months than I care to admit. We're too busy, and keep getting more and more work from the pharma industry. We're expecting a lot of it to dry up next year as the annual budgets are cut from our clients' research funds - but we have plenty in backlog and non-competitive contracts.

We build production equipment for the food and beverage industry. We're fortunate to be doing quite well right now...we're actually breaking sales records and though we're trying to keep the belt tight in preparation for "what could happen", things are good. The company has no debt and we all feel pretty secure.

In some ways, for us, companies still need to manufacture products for people to eat and drink...and people are eating at home more now.

(a little sunshine for this thread I guess).

My brother works for Malt-O-Meal. They're having a good year as well.

... three pence from continental Europe: I have the feeling that my country (Germany) is talked into recession. Sure, the car industry and their suppliers are in trouble but this is mainly their own fault and would have occured sooner or later anyway. I personally don't know anybody who became unemployed this year or whose business runs on a critical level. 2008 was the best year my company (music industry) ever had - but if the media continues to paint everything that black, our ecomomy will follow soon ...

Our son-in-law works for a community college, and it is thriving right now. Enrollment is WAY up, because people cannot afford to go away to one of the big colleges. They are even constructing new buildings on the campus!

And here we have one of the root causes of the issue.

And apparently at least some sailors have some money, because:



It is hard to imagine how people can afford to bring their kids to Miami during the week between Christmas and New Year's for this regatta, when it is the highest-rental-rate time of the year in South Florida!

Education and food service are the big gainers in this economy.

People are retraining for new jobs and taking classes to improve their worth to their companies. One of my properties has an ITT Tech school as its only tenant. We just completed a $1.2M expansion for them. Their stock has gone from $42/share in April to $88/share today.

The best performing stocks I own right now are McDonalds and YUM! Brands (KFC, Taco Bell, Pizza Hut). People are cutting back on the "higher end" fast food (Applebees, Bennigans (now in Chapter 11), etc.) and going back to the "traditional" fast food.

It depends which sector of foodservice a person is employed in. Many independant restaurants are struggling as well as some chains. In the NE the ice storms last week shut many down for 6-12 dqys at a crucial time. my former restaurant has been without power for 8 days and the entire town is still out. As far as fast food goes, this truly does not say much if you believe that eating anything from there is remotely healthy.

How so, if she is signing-on, she is counted?



How so, if they are signing-on, they are counted?



Agreed.

My wife did not work over 40 hours and so is not signed on so does not count, The contractors work through limited companies, in order to sign on they have to disband the company, if they don't have a limited company they can't get more work, most people take crappy jobs to see them through.

Perhaps your ITT should have a chardioligist programm to meet all the demand your YUM brands will bring into that "industry".... lol

I don't even know what "YUM" is.

You're always welcome to come and eat Top Ramen with me Karl

J

YUM! Brands (KFC, Taco Bell, Pizza Hut)

YUM! Brands, Inc. (YUM) is a quick service restaurant (QSR) with over 35,000 units in more than 100 countries and territories. Through the five concepts of KFC, Pizza Hut, Taco Bell, LJS and A&W (the Concepts), the Company develops, operates, franchises and licenses a worldwide system of restaurants, which prepare, package and sell a menu of food items

The whole stinking thing is mental. Banks are afraid to give loans, businesses are afraid to buy, people are afraid to buy stocks...it's all mental but it is one BIG mental machine that is very difficult to influence with anything.

Bailouts and buyouts are like mental drugs. They can't eradicate the problem but they hope they can keep the lows from being AS low.

Jeremy, i take it sales have dropped off since earlier this year when gas prices were through the roof (and we "officially" recognized our recession?

I agree that confidence is what is needed here ro fix the markets.. the cure is mental (confidence) but the causes were not... that is from a culmination of poor business choices and bank practices

A lot of the big banks (City Group) are actually insolvent because of their (stupid) derivitive investing schemes, trying to make the big-bucks. That is why even with all the bailout money they have been given, they won't lend it out, they know they are insolvent and keeping the money (our Tax Dollars) to try to clean up their mess before they implode completely.

But underneath it all, is what really causing the "Mental" part, and that is lost jobs. 8 years of Bush and the R's saying (and doing) "Outsourcing is Good for America" is finally catching up. Our politicians are paid by foreign lobbiest to make it happen.

All that growth in India and China over the last 8 years is actually jobs that have been shifted from the West. Until the manufacturing jobs come back (not any time soon) it's only going to get worse. Watch this series and see what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwyPi9hbN0I

Welcome to our new "Service Economy" minimum wages, no benefits.

You want fries with that?

I was wondering how long it was going to take until someone blamed Bush for them losing their job....

My industry tried outsourcing to India. It didn't work - its in the process of bringing those jobs back to the US and European offices.

That being said, I still have a team of Indian programmers that I manage - and I spend more time babysitting the work they do than I would have spent coding the work myself.

Nah, I was just commiserating with Karl.

Actually we had an extraordinary year. Way above my projections. The summer was good for Kayaks and people rehabbing older boats. The trend that I saw, mid summer when gas was out of control, was that people were selling power boats and getting sailboats and kayaks. I can't tell you how many fisherman went from powerboat to kayak. I had no idea it would be so popular.
We had a late season Tiger sales, and a few new 16's so that's always good. Christmas was good so far. Some cat sailors are going to get some nice stocking stuffers.

We had a lot of great events on the West Coast this sailing season. The 40th was awesome. That always helps dealers out.

I designed my business to have extremely low overhead and to be able to adapt to trends extremely fast if need be. I attribute our success to the fact that my family, Sarah and Jaylen (2.5) are extremely flexible in the summer. We take family trips with the parts trailer to many events during the sailing season--14 hour days are not uncommon. Also, I view my customers as friends and try to treat the m as such.

The yacht brokerage is taking off. Man, if you want to buy a big boat and have cash on hand, wait 3 months, right before people realize it's summer, there will be some deals to be had!

I have no used boats in stock right now. Usually I store up over winter and sell in spring. Things seem to be changing hands quickly these days. Desperate sellers and bargain hunting buyers with cash.

But in the Wintertime it's chill and I get to talk smack with you guys.

Still though with all the talk of doom and gloom, I've shelved a few projects and stashed away a bit more dough than usual. I have 5 customers that have lost jobs and are in dire straights, and 3 more that are about to lose their house. So blaming the media or whoever doesn't change the fact that there are some people in dire straights right now.

The future is going to be interesting to say the least.

J

Well in truth the outsourcing has been going on for what, about 20+ years? So I'm not putting all the blame on Bush, but he did spew a lot of "Outsorcing is Good for America". Here is part 2 of the above, you might want to watch it and then decide. I think this was made back in about 2003-4?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAVoVTQRrsM&NR=1

From your post above: That being said, I still have a team of Indian programmers that I manage - and I spend more time babysitting the work they do than I would have spent coding the work myself.

So, who used to do those jobs? Americans?


BTW, I fly full airplanes to India and China, and guess where is next? Africa. The Chinees are now outsourcing to Africa! Why? Because those upity Chinees workers want too much and they can get Africans to do it cheaper.

The whole stock market is a mental game where real value is not that important. What matters is making more money, fast (sounds familiar from all the spam, dont it).
Becouse the financial institutions now are clinging to what money they have out of fear of loosing it all, the rest of the economy is now hurting.

USA have gone from being a producer to being a consumer. That is not sustainable over time, so things will have to change sooner or later. I do prefer the USA to be a strong economic power compared to China or India, so I hope you are able to restructure and get moving again fast (which will be good for our economy as well).

At my company at least, Americans still do that job. Nobody was "let go" because we openned up shop over in India. Reference my previous comment about working 16 hour days. That kind of workload isn't sustainable - and I wasn't the only teammember sufferring from long nights in the office.

Fact of the matter is that we couldn't find any more qualified people to hire at the rate at which we needed to hire them when we got a huge bolus of work. India was the logical solution from a resource management perspective. However, as our competitors have found out, it costs more overall to hire over there since its requires more domestic human resources to effectively manager and quality check what comes out of there.

[/quote]

Fact of the matter is that we couldn't find any more qualified people to hire at the rate at which we needed to hire them when we got a huge bolus of work.
[/quote]

So... if you had paid more ... you would have found the workers?

Funny how they always leave that part out of the conversation. Like when Bush said, "The jobs Americans don't want to do." What he left off was, "...for those wages."

Or are you telling us there are no unemployed American Tech workers that would not have taken the jobs?

$5,000 a year in India (or China, or Africa) is a huge amount of money for them. Any wonder our own minimum wage didn't go up for 10 years?

Catch Lou Dobbs any night on CNN.

Outsourcing is a fact in a global economy. yes we have problems and pitfalls but we will prevail.

The % of income people had to pay for food and clothing (and furniture and transportation) was significantly higher 50 years ago. we may need a "paradigm" shift back to actual value of products, not discount to restore the good old USA as a producer (sorry wal-mart).

I think there is some irony (and perhaps a metaphor) in the fact if you want to eat natural food, without chemical and synthetic additives, it costs 25% more (organic).

Jeramy, i am glad to hear you are still doing well. Perhaps
your shop needs some new cabinets that Karl can build out of ROMIN Noodles for cheap?


PS i would hate to see the person whose stockings a Hobie would fit in

I used to eat a lot of Top Ramen, but I've been trying to go easy on it lately. It's true you can get a 48-pack from Costco, and it's filling and cheap, but it's really high in Sodium. Since high blood pressure runs in my family, I gotta go easy on it.

DHo
TheMightyHobie18 1067

Has anyone seen those anti Wal Mart ads lately? The 'paid for by' goes by so fast I can't ever catch it. It's crazy those ads are hitting the mainstream these days.

There was a news article in the SJ Merc News about the local KFC using a call center to take their drive through orders. Anyone catch that? You order and it goes to India, then they email it to the cashier. That's really crazy!

If Karl gets out here, he'd better bring his boat!

Hey DHO, come visit sometime!

PAID FOR BY K-MART!



PS i am not a wal-mart basher.. i shop there from time to time.. I have friends that boycot them... and purchase their "Made in China" goods from Sears



Theres the entrapanural spirit!!!

We could probably pay whatever it would take to get more people in our US-based offices. However, we cannot do that and remain competitive as a business when our competition can cut costs more effectively that we can.

And when my company stops winning contracts because we aren't competitive, then we're all out of a job over there.

Believe me, I was LIVID when my VP of my business unit told me, to my face, when I got my last raise that "[he] isn't going to get in a bidding war for programmers when [he] can pay $10k/year to get the same Human Resource over in India"

I wanted to punch the guy, I really did. However, since then I found that my job has gone from being technical to being the liason between the technical human resource units to the non-technical client representatives. I spend most of my days on presentation teleconferences instead of actually programming much.

Just for the sake of my own blood pressure keep the political stuff out. You got your golden boy, shut up. I'm tired of it.

Jeremy- I'll make it out there sometime, but I doubt it'll be next year. It'll take a year of having lots of work for me to get caught back up again.

Top Ramen is crap, the Ichiban ramen noodles are awesome, a bit more money at $.40 a pack, but when you eat it, you'll know the extra $.15 was well worth the expense.

Karl, remember Forrest Gump. His shrimp business sucked until the hurricane wiped out all the other boats. If the heavily leveraged shops go under you become the only game in town.

There are no problems, just opportunities.

The two major industries here in my town are gone now. We lost the pulp mill, The ice and cold storage, lumber mill and no salmon fishing and a shortened crab season. People here are working at fast food with college degrees, (if you know someone to get you in). I'm unemployed for a while now, with no prospects of employment.

Just curious, but what did you do before?

Industrial Gas mechanic, and cryogenic plant operator.

As a matter of interest. What do any of you know that just keeps growing..unchecked, without getting unstable and collapsing? Why do rabid capitalists think that never ending economic growth is possible? Because they are short lived biological organisms who want power and money for themselves right now! That is the mental idea, trusting super rich to be honest and responsible!!

Welcome to socialism guys. Like it or not the West is about to grow up with any luck and I expect it will be painful.
12 trillion dollars of debt has been realised but not all secured and there is another 20 trillion to come! : ) It has only just started.
If the US etc just keep printing money it will slip into a hyper-inflationary economy and it is Zimbabwerama for all of us.

For what it is worth I bought gold.

Expect social unrest and very angry people when the real damage is realised.

The French might be derided by the US but they invented our individual freedom with the creation of meritocracy by the chopping off of a whole lot of rich and powerful heads...I say it needs to be done again to remind them of the dangers of treating everyman with such contempt.

No doubt I will be thought crazy but a whole lot of heads on spikes at the outskirts of the city will have a better effect than long drawn out court cases and light punishments for too few.

There will be a social cost created by these men and women that is outrageous and I for one would be happy to get the big blade out.

I hear ya, and that's kinda what I've been banking on. Keeping my overhead super low, all my equipment is paid for etc. But its starting to get rough for me. The nicest thing about having a 1-2 man operation, is that it doesn't take a heck of alot to get and stay busy.

Warbird- buying gold is definetly a good plan. Silver isn't a bad investment either. Gold has been on the climb since early November, it was down around $740/oz (USD), but a few months earlier it was over $900, (around $930 I think I saw it top out at). Gold will always be worth something, even if currency fails in a severe economic collapse. So will whiskey, and bullets for that matter.

One thing is that there is always more people. With a steady population the end result of capitalism is a monopoly on everything. Wall-Mart is pretty much a poster child for capitalism. Whether or not its a good thing, I don't know.

"Will sail for food" Can anyone spare a buck? Please send all donations to the "Rich Vilvens save a Tiger fund"

My goal is to once again see large packs of tigers roaming free all over the world. So I call my fiber glass guy a vet, and the PRO a pack leader, and the lakes and bays we sail Tiger refuges, then start collecting donations. I'll list Jeremy at surf city as a "Tiger Breeder " releasing new tigers to the wild with their sponsors. This should work for about 3 years then its off to prison for fraud. Anyone know a good lawyer?

I bought gold @ 890 but I did that as I expected the NZD to drop and to wait would make me pay more as gold is in USD.
I am 35% ahead even with the drop to 750 because of the exchange rate dropped way more but now gold is climbing again I think I will get a double win as even though the NZD has jumped this last week, it will not last as we are a country that has been creating private wealth in the housing market and actually producing nothing.
Apart from dead animals we have no economy.
Really I have done it because back in August I was clear the banks would fall and I even took a lot of cash out just to have under the mattress.
They say the NZ banks are safe but I do not believe a word of it.
I am self-employed and used to living on light funds and I have not built a "safe for retirement" portfolio so I cannot really understand how the cheated feel but if it was me, I would be looking up addresses.

I think it is simple. If they are not punished severely why should they not do it again? I would. Trusts need to be broken down to the actual user of the funds and hidden money taken and ALL assets taken and at least hard labour for life working to pay what has been taken so cynically. If they don't think that's fair give them a gun and a bullet.

It is going to really PMO watching high end lawyers dragging this out and all of the lip service given to "regulating". Keep it simple. Steel-pay the price. Steel lots-pay a bigger price.

Breaded Tiger? (...in the process of deleting all wisecracks that I wanted to post about the new fast food that bites back)

Actually, J should be appreciated for having a biz plan that keeps overhead low. Something it would be nice to see more of. Like in the auto business.

Suspect, however, there are many businesses that are doing well. But they don't get recognition. A lot of this is mind games. There are a lot of businesses doing well.

Yup I f----d up there but oh well maybe thats why in unemployed. Yes Jeremy does do a good job A small shack as an office and Using his friends / customers to build and store boats. He also takes care of his customers well and supports the racing alot. He supplies chase boats and committee boats for alot of races. Along with John at WindToys. We are lucky here in Cali to have such great dealers.

Hey Rich, what's "Windtoys"??? Inquiring minds in Northern California want to know!!!

Ryan
Whiskeytown Sailing Club
Redding California

P.S. Sure wish you'd bring that Tiger to Whiskeytown, I want a ride!!!!!
Maybe next year, the 45th Whiskeytown Regatta!!!!

Wind Toys is the Hobie Dealer in Santa Rosa. I had the tiger at whiskey town a few times this year. I'll try a few more times once I get my leg better.

Heck I've been known to go out in the middle of winter too just for the fun of it.

Did I miss something? I don't recall seeing you talk about leg damage!!! BTW, I'm unemployed too, somebody need a good PC Desktop Support Guy that likes to sail??? I have my own boat, but I'll boat whore if I need to!!!!

I blew my knee out. I'm looking at a mri early next week, the doctor thinks I need surgery to put it back together. But I'm hoping its not that bad and won't have to miss alot of time.

Damn, what a drag, so if you need somebody to sail your boat while you get better, I'm available!!!!

Yea you and Jeremy both volunteering. He wants me to bring the tiger, rig it, supply my crew, and run the committee boat. Then derig it and haul it home. I let him "Rock Star " one weekend and now he expects it.

http://www.windtoyswatersports.com/

It looks like they've given up on cats and have gone kayak.

John is still active with the cats volunteering his chase boat and committee boat for the bodega bay regattas and making donations to alot more. Also provides boat storage and refurbishment on site.

Rich- You're really bored aren't you? You've been on here all evening. Don't worry, I have no life either, and I don't even have an injury.

I live here now.

That's funny

Could be worse, it could be summer and you've got an F'd up knee.

Yea but the doc is talking about mid summer before I can sail again.
Its not a scope operation its an open and cut replace , close thing. Hopefully its not that bad but I'll know soon. And I just mailed off the check for the north americans. If I can't sail it'll be HavaBummer week.

Sweet! You'll be suckin hind teat with me. Different class of course, but can't stack all the losers in one class now can we. At least I won't get beaten by more than 5 boats. hehehehe

But I was the First RSVP and The First Pre-Reg So I got Two firsts already. (I'm winning till Nov atleast)
And even if I can't trap I'll be there for that regatta.

HavaMega is 2000 miles away and my employer is putting everyone on a 4 day week. So....My gross income is down 20% but I'm still employed for now. Office Furniture just isn't selling with all the lay-offs at the banks, insurance companies and large "Blue Chip" companies. After 22 years I may be looking for a new job soon.

Hi DVL,

I know your pain ... I am one of those crazy nuts who meets the truck and installs the cubicals/furniture. It's been tough here in the Northeast for awhile, only Delaware w/ all the financial institutions were doing well ... now who knows ???

Who do you work for??? Steelcase???

I see that you have a TheMightyHobie18 w/ Magnum Wings ... me too ... Great Boat!!!

HarryMurphey

Is anyone keeping more cash around the house like I am or wondering when they make a deposit if they will see that money again?

I heard the other day the Treasury's 3 month (bills?) were paying 0% and people were still buying them. I remember reading that during the Depression people bought government notes at NEGATIVE interest and I thought THAT would never happen again. HA!

For the folks that have entered a response to Karls original question...... How long do you think you will be out? Can you survive in your occupation or will you need to find other work?

I live in a HUGE tourism state and I think this will be ugly for at least 2 years.

I think The City of London will be a nightmare for at least the next 12 months; they are just not hiring in my salary range at present.

I am expecting not to find "proper" work for at least another 12 months; maybe something will come along; I think the UK is in big crap for at least 2-4 years, but some of the banks will start re-hiring when they can get SOME finance and start some speculative trading again.

Gold, gold, gold. But be sure to pick up the coins and know they are real and yours. Do not trust any agency to hold them for you.

Am I paranoid or what?...that doesn't mean they won't wrought us when it comes to the pinch.

Bet the manufacturers of safes are having a bumper year.

Pre-1933 coins? Non-confiscate-able ???

Are Krugeerands still a common coin for gold?

South Africa still makes Krugerrands.

But you can buy Canadian Maple Leafs:

(known for their high purity)
and even American Eagles / Buffalos:



I've got a handful of pre-1933 double eagles that my grandfather squirreled away:


The St. Gauldens dougle eagle is one of the most beautiful coins ever made.

Harry, I work for Haworth but all of the big players (except Hon) are within 30 miles of where I live. Haworth is listed as number 3 behind Steelcase and Herman Miller, Haworth is still privately held. I talked with the founders son for a few minutes and he looked to be under a lot of stress. It will be several rough years for the industry. Usually they are last to go into a recession, last to come out.

Matt, some beatiful coins. I may look into buying some coins but I first need to pay the bank for the house. Hope to see you at Austin Lake this year.

I would venture a guess that firearm manufacturers are having a brisk year with the rumors spreading about the incoming US administration. Perhaps the rumors were started BY the manufacturers to boost sales..

Anyone want to sell their rocket launcher, or medium range cruise missile? I'm sure they'd be great for "home defense"... "Get them before they're banned"....

I AGREE W' H1616. my wife is a realtor in South Florida. Her strategy is to continue putting cash into her marketing program as other realtors start to conserve. So far it is working, phone keeps ringing, closings keep happening. In the long run she will reap more benefits from being the dominant name in the area when the economy recovers.

six sigma