New Project -20' Trimaran

I've decided to stray from the cats for something different.

I'm building a 20' two person tri foam / fiberglass with 17' beam and you sit "in-line" 6 inches above the water line.

Target weight <500 lbs. with 30' mast. Looking for 25 plus knots.

I'm going to document the project for those that want to follow along from plans to water.

I'm having the plans modified, flair in the main hull, to give about a 32-inch beam above the DWL.

Yeah I must be a nut job? Why fly just one hull when you can fly Two?

www.TheManShed.net

I would have thought that to make any 20'er perform, you would need to move the crew weight to windward

you are a nut job
in uk we have a small trimaran that one or two can sit in line in central hull , they are for disabled folk and their helper (if needed to sail) , they are pretty fast and give a great time to the sailors , but I bet given half a chance they would want to get out to the windward float and really power it up .
Ask my Fin Law he's 88 and sailing them.

If you insist on depowering your fine looking beast by sitting in the middle you best put a windscreen infront , the challenger trimarans I refer to are the wettest boats in the world to sail , with the spray from three bows meeting in the middle .which can kinda take the fun out a windy sail.

If you are building it in your "man shed " to do it justice , you should ditch the seats , at least tramp out to sponsons, and to be real "man " trapeze off them too , the design looks up to it .

full carbon construction too would be cool.

ps if you do build it with middle seats , do my fin law a favour and invite the ole fella out he would love it , even at 88 he still has the "balls" , but best not go into that , he's always wanted to put a big cat rig on his challenger .

good luck

SOmeone is claiming to use bamboo fiber instead of carbon for a "green" build. Wonder what the structural differences would be. Babmoo's got to be cheaper...

The city I work for just finished a project constructing a gazebo at a local park. It was a partnership with a local college of architecture. Students designed and constructed the gazebo. Bamboo was an intergral park of the structure due to its high strength and "green" attributes. BTW....the structure had to meet current Florida building codes and wind load requirements. That should say something about the properties of bamboo.

I recently saw a thing on tv on some channel where a company in California (where else?) was building a line of bicycles from bamboo and using hemp fibers with epoxy resin to join the tubes.

Calfee bikes.

Cool Stuff.




http://www.calfeedesign.com/bamboo.htm

so here's the thing...

is it similar in strength/weight as carbon composites?

Is it more cost effective?

Is it more readily available?

It certainly is renewable and carbon neutral...

I got about 100 net acres I could grow bamboo on if needed....

How? I thought carbon was the ultimate.

I am thinking about putting hiking wires on it for the option of hiking out. There is going to be a flair in the hull to reduce the spray.

Bamboo Hmmm all I remember that was really useful was for homemade bongs in the 60's - 70's it was great. Seasoned really well, water tasted like hell ripple was not much better.

The boat was actually designed for the Worrell 1000 when it was an all out race.

What was the name for the "Fin in Law" boat design I'd like to look at it.

I still have my cat on the beach so it will be another toy.

I'm looking for speed. How fast can I make it from West Palm to West End.

" ripple was not much better" Nor "Boone's Farm".

Ever make brandied fruit?
1 heavy glass jar
1 can fruit **** in heavy syrup
1 bottle maraschino cherries
1 packet Fleishcman's yeast

Mix ingredients in the jar and put on the back of your 'fridge so it will stay nice and warm. Should begin to bubble in a day or two. When the cherries are transparent and colorless, the fruit is about 80 proof. Pour over Bryar's ice cream. If you've been test driving your bong, there's nothing better.

Codblow
I googled challenger trimarans. I hope it is like the difference between an Alfa Cat and Inter 20.

If not maybe I can get some free money from Obama for Civic Services.

I'm not a spring chicken any more but I got a few years from 88.

Sail side up everbody at least most of the time.....

Pete sounds good! I've had green things in the fridge been afraid to eat - nothing bubbling yet - but I may give it a try.

Isn't it impossible to get anything to 80 proof through natural fermentation? The yeast kills itself off after 10ish percent I think.
AND... While we are digressing.... at what point does the amount of chemicals required (epoxy) to bond all that green stuff together pretty much negate the "green?"
Or did you all mean green by the amount of green those bikes cost? 2300$ is a lot of cash for fancy wood

I went to website for the bike and here is a quote from the text:
The bike is made from Bamboo that has been smoked and heat treated to prevent splitting. Lugs are made of hemp fiber

Just as I thought Recycle bongs - soaked in Ripple I suspect. I bet Arnold the governator had something to do with it.

Test drive the bong, then try the fruit. You tell me.

was just my scottish humour often misunderstood , but i think you got it .
good to hear you are considering hiking the boat , would be a shame not to, may even consider one myself when older n wrinkly to take on the lead mine and sportsboat racing locally , when i get too unfit for beach cats.

I think there is a real market for 20 foot tri's that could take on melges etc and only need two crew , keep up the good work.

ps if you use the alternative build materials above you could call the finished article "Big Bamboo" to keep da jamaicans amused

If you are looking for speed, put the seats out on racks off the ama's. There is/was a cross altantic f18 attempt that had racks with molded seats, looked comfy.

My question is, are you going to locate all the controls in the "****" so you can sail it from there (like a Rave) or are the seats for passengers? If you have the controls going to the ****, then hiking and driving or triming might be an problem.

I say lose the seats in the ****, make them benches that go fore and aft. Make the controls easily controlled from the amas.

If its a nice sunny day, I'd rather be relaxing on the tramp or the ama, and if its an all out speed run on a windy day, you are going to want to be on the ama's or hiked out.

Bill

I agree and the M23 looks promising
http://www.multi23usa.com

I agree - it gives you all the flexibility in the world for any weather and an array of passengers. Use for example, any of the Farrier/Corsair tris.

"Why fly just one hull when you can fly Two?"

"put the seats out on racks off the ama's"

These 2 statements don't fit togther, Keep those amas clean and smooth if you want 2-up!

West Palm to West End probably could take as little as 10 hours under the right conditions, but that Gulf Stream can get really ugly...fast. And if your GPS goes, you can only hope to find land...

Try Lauderdale to Bimini. I think that's only about 60 miles (4 hours)

I’ve been out of town working the last few days. Jake I was in South Carolina. I have Craig’s (team cyberspeed) Supercat 20 completed so we are launching tomorrow and I’m also taking my Gcat5.7 we are going out off of Singer Island. The weather girl is calling for 85 degrees and 10-15 knot wind.

Codblow - It was cool and I did look up the tri you mentioned it is a good idea and I may consider doing something like that in the states. I'm 54 and I’m starting to have some physical problems, degenerative spine disease. I have problems in my neck, shoulders, and fingers. I’m thinking of something that does not tear me as much as I’m not a young lad anymore. I started sailing/racing cats when I was 25 after I crashed a motorcycle at 95 mph “street racing”. I’ve had 4 surgeries on my shoulders over the years I have good days and bad days. So I have this serious crazy streak but as Jimmy Buffett says: “You treat your body like a temple and I treat mine like a tent”---got a lot of tent years.

Bvining and Jake – I’m torn between seats and ama helm. The design calls for foot steering and sheets leading to the ****. It also calls for a skeg type rudder in each hull. In south FL we need to have a kick up rudders. So I’m thinking of a way to combine it. The Naval Architect, Kurt Hughes, says it is designed for **** helm and there is not a need for ama hiking.

As a cat sailor we think different. Kurt says it will out point cats. The fastest speed we know is with a big reacher or spinnaker. So does a 17’ beam tri down wind balance enough to negate hiking? Is the beam wide enough for a beam reach? Last winter I meet with Randy Reynolds for a day on his boat and we talked designs, sails, hulls, and beams. Randy proved on his 33 that a narrow beam is faster then a wide beam. One would think the opposite but he had the data to prove different to my surprise.

Do I set up dual helm for the conditions? One for ama helm and for **** helm? Or just make it one or the other? Do I set up two wires or is just the crew on the wire enough? When the NACRA 5.2 first came out I bought hull number 325 it was a one-wire boat. The wire configuration and the portsmith number made the sol cat 18 a go to boat. Not because it was fast they had about a lap on you for a handy cap. These are the things I have to weigh out. Also what is the speed sensation sitting 6 inches above the water line compared to hiking out at what 6-8 foot level? Have you ever land yachted. You sit about 4 inched above the ground and I was clocked at 48 mph. Then when I flew a wheel it brought tears to my eyes. The wind was blowing in the 20’s. I only did it once in California about 20 years ago what a rush!

The good thing as the builder is that I will have time to tweek these things out and the first will be my “mule” to test. I hope that the boat is all that I hope it will be. I’d like to go into production of the boat. I’m also thinking of building an 18/20’ Hawaiian sailing canoe. My plan is to have 3 molds that would give a configuration of 5 boats. But that is a long-term plan.

Next week we will work on the website so I can put some more picture up.

Mike aka TheManShed

super yeasts go up to 18-20%, which i think is near enough to 40 proof

Mike,
I've sailed a DN iceboat, so I get the comment about land yatching, but I dont think the center console will give you the same rush.

Given that you have physical issues, I would go with seats and set it up for center controls. Your crew can always hike out, or trap out.

Kick up rudders are pretty easy if they are hung off the transom, I'd recommend Dotan rudders because you could reach back and flick them up or down and not have to leave the ****.

Speed question on a tri is about being able to fly the center hull, so you will need to make sure that the ama's have enough volume to fly the center hull without submerging.

The Reynolds narrow beam is faster because he can fly a hull sooner and reduce drag from the windward hull.

Your tri needs to be able to fly a hull to get real speed. I would focus on making the ama's big enough - look at the ORMA 60 tri's for proportions and reduce weight, foam on carbon for the hulls and ama's. Most cruising tri's dont fly the main hull, or barely fly it, so they are slower than a 20ft cat. Look at the Oracle tri, that has a huge sail plan, 90 ft wide and lightweight, its probably the fastest tri on the planet at the lower end of the wind scale. It will fly a hull the center hull at 5knots.

I'd go with center controls only and you can alway add trap wires later if you need them.

My armchair naval architect 2 cents.

Bill

To add; this is while the wind is light and the wider beam boat isn't yet flying a hull. All other things being equal, additional leverage = more speed when it can be applied.

Bill cool on the DN iceboat sailing! I had one chance in the late 70’s when I lived in the upper Midwest to iceboat and Mother Nature hosed it. As you know the ice has to freeze level and that is not always the case. Those ice speed bumps can crash you at 50+ mph and the snow can’t be very deep. The Ice was finally thick enough and level then it snowed like hell that night. It was right about the time I moved to Florida so I did not wait around for another chance. I’d like to Iceboat before my final chapter is written. Do you have connections in the Iceboat world? I almost moved to CT with Pratt & Whitney about 10 years ago. I quit instead to stay down here.

The TMS-20 (The Man Shed 20) tri is built to fly on one ama. That is why the ama is almost the full length of the main hull it is about 19’ loa, 14” beam, has a slight rocker, and each ama has a rudder and board. Each ama is about 6 feet from main hull on the respective side. The main hull does not have a rudder or board. The flair I added to the beam of the main hull is above the waterline to give about 32 inches of wiggle room but no additional wetted surface on the hull. For those that are the engineer types the two connecting beams need to support 850 lbs. What would I need to have in Carbon Fiber for that type of stress?

I noticed the Multi23 has a swing keel and main hull rudder. You can’t fly that too high and I’m sure that has a lot of drag. The TMS-20 design had the rudder and board in the center hull in the original design and it was found to have too much drag, so it was moved to the hulls “cat” style.

Let me apply the Reynolds, Jake, and My theory. And the hell of it is they all make sense to me! Where is Bill Roberts when I need him?

Reynolds - Narrow beams less wetted surface. (Also better parking)

Jake – Additional Leverage more speed (this is where the 17’ beam comes in play plus say a crew on the wire.)

My thought – Down wind speed flat, fast, and hopefully enough buoyancy w/ three hulls.

Update Team Cyberspeed SuperCat 20 almost made it in the water today. It is about 30’ short. It is under the bridge on the launch beach at Singer Island. We had a problem with the re-welded alignment pins holes in the main beam - the tolerance was too close. Tomorrow we will have it fixed. The weather lady lied today anyway. Sunday should be a bit nicer for a shake down sail. The beer cooler we built in the hull worked great!

Later,

Mike