flaking the spinnaker

Anyone know an easy way?

I am sure i will get grief for posting here since yesterday i said i don't often flake my spin... but i have, and i do flake my jib... so here goes...

Get a helper....(it is possible solo, but easier with help)
lay the sail out as flat as you can.
start at the foot... and fold in 2.5' - 3' sections on top of each other (accordion style) till you get in to the head of the sail.

Thats about all there is to it...

Mine came flaked in a nice bag. Of course I didn't bother to take notes when first ripping into it! I've tried several different approaches, none fit the original, which I assume is the best way.

Until somebody tells me just why flaking the spi is going to extend its life, I'll not bother

I can only guess that if its flaked well (and tight) there are less "bends" in the fabric, and leads to less wear (and less creases) over the life of the spin.. but that is just a guess...

Take 3 sheets of paper.
Wad one up in a ball.
Fold one up, just like you would flake a spin.
Leave one sheet alone.
Now smooth the ball out and lay it on the unfolded paper.
Now smooth the flaked paper out on the unfolded paper.
Which piece smooths out closest to it's original size...
Do this 100 times, which piece falls apart first...

Man, that is a perfect example!!

That's kinda where I'm at. I stuff mine in a bag, its gotta be easier on it than pulling it into the snuffer when its being used. It does get stored hanging up in my basement though, but thats more to make sure its dry than anything.

I snuff my spi into a bundle about 10 times a racing day; why would not doing it once more at the end of the day into a very roomy bag make any difference ?

Typically, it goes into its bag as it sat in the snuffer. I use a small replacer line for the retrieval line and tie the corners together. This also allows me to hook it back on the boat much faster.

Wouter

This subject really isn't debate worthy. Either you think flaking has value or you don't. At the end of day it's your spin, time and checkbook.

Is this you trying to stop a debate?

Do we really need another Dill Baby Drill thread?

Well, FWIW, mine was always stored in the homebrew snuffer I had made for the low bow foil on a Nacra 6.0na.

When rigged, the end of the pole had a spectra line to each hull tip, which ended in a hole drilled thru the front of the bow.

I would undo one side of this bridle, so the whole pole with snuffer attached would get past the upright mast support on the front on the trailer near the tongue.

So my spin was stored, in the snuffer, with all lines except the halyard attached.
Which made for some great rigging and breaking down times!

It wasn't stuffed in, and it really wasn't folded either. It was out of the sunlight as my snuffer was a black plastic tube.

It was so nice just to attach the halyard to the head, and that's all there was to rigging the spin!

Flake Baby Flake - Tony the tiger says "There Greaaaaat"

I was told this example, but it went further than that...

Hold the 4 corners of the paper (you'll need a mate to help) and then drop a heavy ballbearing into the middle.

Does the crumpled one tear? Nope; does the folded one? Yes

IF you fold in the same place, you make certain points very weak because they are folded in the same (or similar) place many times. Stuffing it in the bag creates more folds, but they are smaller and more distributed and so the weakness is more spreadout.

Unless you have a problem with things flying into the middle of your spin I'm not sure how this is relevant. I think the point is to make a simple effort to keep the spin as crisp as possible.

But is it worth the 10 minutes extra packaging time, and the extra rigging time if flaked compared to the method Wouter described? Seems like the jury is still out on this one. I know what I will continue to do

Pete, I always just folded the spi along the foot first, then working up the length of it. Easy if there is no wind and two persons. Takes a bit longer if alone. Impossible without substantial effort if there is lots of wind.. Usually, I just stuff it in a large bag if it is dry. If it is wet, we hang it to dry in the boathouse THEN stuff it into the bag

The point is that flaking the sail makes less areas that are damaged/weak. But the areas that are damaged/wear are more damaged and so failure change is greater.

Hey Anyone need to buy a Spin. I know someone who makes a nice one at a good price. From the sound of this thread alot of people need one.

Apparently thats me! How much? what is it made from? Brand new? details, pics, etc
(PS i fly a Tornado sized spin)

Paranoia.

Top Tboat teams are religious about sail care and they typically only use them for a couple of regatta before switching to fresh. If you choose to go down this path, then I expect you will also remove your main battens before rolling up your main each and every day you've sailed. This "prevent" battens taking a set...though I've not seen this at a significant level with sails rolled up for years with battens in. You should also be taking your jib off your roller furler each day and alternating the rolling direction to reduce pre-curves (Top T teams will roll from the top one day, then roll for mt he bottom the next, switching direction each time).

Me, I leave my spinny in the snuffer between outings, while trailering, storing boat etc.. Main (& Jib) battens stay in unless broken (save for Top main batten..can't roll with it in). Jib gets rolled in whatever direction is easiest for that moment.

I feel there's way too much still to be gained by better sailing skills than these anal-retentative practises.

Bravo Mike!

Well, for my two cents:

In the past, I've religiously folded (flaked) my sails. Over time I've noticed the material wears, weakens and tear along the "fold lines".

More recently I ensure the sail is completely dry and I use a stuff sack for "between use" storage. Since this change, I've not experienced the wear, weakening and eventual tearing along the fold lines. That is probably because the fold lines are random, when using the stuff sack.

Wow, look outside, it's Spring and time to get the boat ready for the season....waaa hoooo...!

Andrew
Sent you a pm on the spins.

How about my trailer tires? should i remove them and stuff them in a bag after every use? I hear the UV rays will degrade rubber

I have sunbrella covers for my trailer tires.

Now that takes the cake!!!!

That's the guy I want to buy a used boat from!

SO is the cape actually to keep the UV off your shirt/pants?

I am just kidding... i have just replaced a tire that had cracks though it.... and need to replace the other one. I may spray 303 on them to help protect them but i doubt i will go so far as to get covers for them.

But just yesterday i was thinking about making a cover for my spin/snuff and maybe even the mast (up to the spin bail).

What Dave said.


I know a guy that puts wood(1X6) with a chock at the end of it and puts his trailer on those instead of parking it on the ground. I think the ground is probably worse for a tire than the sun. Heck, the boat covers the tires so there shouldn't be a whole lot of UV exposure.

Super anal people are the ones you want to buy a used boat from that's for sure.

No pun intended for Jake here.

Jake, i think Mike just called you Super Anal... is that your "alter ego's name"? and i thought it was "squeegee man"....

Just remember, I asked "how, not if" .

Yep, don't bother.

Will flaking prevent the panels in a spinnaker stretching - which is what typically ends up degrading their performance?

- I don't think so.

If you like the "Japanese Tea Ceromony" ritual of neatly folding the kite with the help of someone else then power to you.

If you think life is short then leave it in the snuffer bag.

Chris.

Thanks everyone. I'll fiddle with it a little more. If it continues to be a pita. . .

LIFE IS SHORT!

Here's the cover for my SNU on the HT.

Dave

NICE~ are those button snaps along the side of it to secure it?

Dennis has covers available for the Snu now too.
http://www.gobarefootstudio.com/snu_cover.html

Yes to the button snaps, but I like the look of the fasteners on Dennis' version. The snaps have become a bit more difficult with time. Nice fabric, and good protection. I think I paid closer to $120. The guy made tramp cover as well that I'm pleased with.

Dave

Just to add more fuel to the fire.....

Having made sails for 14 years for some of the premire lofts, the consensus on folding kites is that you always fold them in half from head to mid-foot, then fold them toward the foot, and then roll from the middle of the sail toward the leech and luff to avoid crushing the last foot of cloth leading into the tapes. This is the way we did it on the AC boats, TP52s and what we do on our own F18.

Probably 6 to 1/2 dozen in the end since the snuffers kill the cloth of the kites in about 2 regattas.

Good info, thanks.

One more point to consider - if you flake your spinnaker, it goes into a spinnaker bag easily with no pressure. This means no, or very little, pressure on the folds.

If you wad it up and stuff it into a spinnaker bag, the bag is constantly sprung and all the micro-folds try to push out. It results in stress on every bend and every fold.

I went through this with a expensive backpacking tent. Same thing, folding the same way does more damage than stuffing. If your worried about your chute being "sprung with micro-folds" then how about a slightly larger bag?? Inquiring minds would like to know.

Somebody just needs to come up with a injection molded spinnaker that would be wickedly cheaper. Then we could treat the sail exactly as it is, a flimsy disposable film somehow called cloth.

Mike,
Why do you flake paper? I was wondering why my receipts were folded so weird.
Tawd