If you were in my shoes?

Hi,

Just let me explain the situation.
I am becomming father later this seison.
Due to this I am without regular crew (did all regatta's with my wife).
Now I am not sure if I should keep my F18 cat or change over to a 1 person which we can use both at the time?
And what kind of boat would you choose?

Thank for you info.
BR

A class if you want a single hander only.

F16 if you want the option of sailing 1 or 2 up (good from when the Grandparents look after the little one!!!)

Baby carriages don't have hulls. You are out of luck buddy. For a while. MAybe forever, depending on your wife-handling skills.

B,

It will be the F16 or the A-cat. You've been exposed to spin racing and like the rest of us you're probably hopelessly hooked. The A-cat appears to be a great ride for something without a headsail :-)

But, as an F18 chairman I'd be delinquent in my duties if I didn't tell you to stick with the class. Train a newbie and get a new person hooked. I know it's a hassle and nobody is really going to be able to measure up to your wife (that's been my experience anyway) but it will have its own rewards.

BTW, congrats!

Take a nanny to the regattas.

If you can, keep the F18 and continue sailing with your wife. If this is something you used to do together, dont let go of it!
If you are unable to go sailing together, but you can get a kitchen pass, go A-cat or F16. If wife also likes to sail, and will have ago while you look after your kid, go A-cat as that is the lightest one to handle on the beach.

Primarily, I would look after someone to take care of the child while I went sailing with the wife.


Congratulations with the family! Take care of your kid, your wife and yourself

I'm a stay-at-home dad. I took a year off sailing after our daughter was born, but even with full-time parent responsibilities, I've been able to keep up a fulfilling race schedule. I'm not making the 20 or so events a year I did when I was single, but I'm still having a good time. I'm primarily a crew, but I bought an F18 in 2006 and have had a great time putting together events with quite a number of skippers in the last three years. I was fortunate to hook up with a steady crew for a full season, but a move across the country broke up that party. Even then, it was not too difficult to fall back into the routine of making some phone calls and drumming up someone fun to sail with for a weekend.

I would encourage you to hang onto the boat unless you have a sense it would sell without much effort for a price that you wouldn't regret. Here in the US, prices have taken a bit of a jump this year, so it may prove expensive to replace the boat later. If you think your wife is willing to give it a go, try getting a sitter, grandparent or nanny to watch the tyke for a day sometime next season - I've known several couples that got right back to racing once sleep deprivation and feeding schedules became less of an issue.

As others have said - congrats. It changes everything, but I think having a family is well worth the shake-up.

Personally, I'm still in my dating phase (trying to set a new record for that, mind you), but I can therefor relate to losing a crew/skipper.

There is always the option of finding another person and form a new doublehanded team; in that case you might as well hang on to the F18 you already have.

This is not what I did, however. I also never considered the A-class cat seriously. I do keep my boat on the beach for 6 months of the year and I wouldn't want to take out a passenger/crew on a A-cat or use it for a distance race on the North Sea. Beyond that I'm hooked on the spinnaker and I do appreciated doublehanding regulary (like the annual NAM-REM race that is held at my club). I noticed that you are located in the Netherlands as well. Are you sailing of the beach or on the lakes ? I do think this will influence any decision towards an A-cat.

My decision eventually came out towards the F16 boats and the reasons for that were simple :

-1- lightweight (under 110 kg ready to sail) but still robust
-2- Same performance when doublehanding as the F18's (sloop + spi has a Texel rating of 102)
-3- Same performance when singlehanding as F18 AND A-cats (mainsail+spi has a Texel rating of 101)
-4- Switched between singlehanding and doublehanding within the time you can raise or lower a jib ( <5min)
-5- Is very similar to the other boats like F18 I was used to. Is basically a slightly smaller but much lighter brother to the F18's.
-6- Cost. I did my own boat for 13.500 Euro's (fully race ready sloop + spi) back in 2003.


As far as I know the new F16's are still at 15.000 Euro's ready to sail in sloop+spi mode using pentex sails by saillofts such as Landenberg, Glaser or Ashby using full carbon daggerboards, rudders and in case of the Stealth F16 a carbon mast as well. As such they are still noticebly cheaper then comparable race oriented new F18's.

I've never looked back since 2003. I have sailed/raced seasons on my own and did seasons with a dedicated crew, both using the exact same hardware. Typically, I just go to the beach when I feel like it and rig it up for for singlehanded sailing. Regulary a clubmember without a boat walks up and joins me to doublehand the F16. Quite a few times I started sialing 1-up before lunch only to do 2-up after lunch. In those cases, I often just forgot about the jib sailed 2-up with main and spi only. Performance is slightly less that way (wouldn't do a race like that) but no where near large enough to make a difference for some good recreational sailing. You'll loose maybe some 5 to 6 Texel rating points that way (5%), which is hard to tell without other boats around that are racing you.

This way sailing is a dream. You never have to phone around, just show up, and still get some doublehanded sailing in regulary. The latter is especially nice for long distance races. Basically, you'll keep all options open, even the one where the wife gets back into sailing. And you keep up your F18 sailing skills while extending it with a safe ( = solo righting !), fun (=fast) and practical (= ligtweight) singlehanding ability.

Personally, I would strongly suggest the F16's if you decide not to hang on to your F18.

Best regards,

Wouter

Taipan F16

Option #1
Buy an RV, keep the F18, and find a sitter or a new crew
#2 A Class and an RV
#3 F16 and an RV

Is thier some kind of trend here...?

I love the F18, and REALLY love my A Cat, but depending on where you are at, F16 might fit your bill. Go with the fleets, you wont lose.

BTW, congrats on the new addition...I was just out watching my 10year old practice on his Opti, cant beat that proud parent feeling

I am with John. Sailing with yer main girl is mui importante~
However, if your resouces permit, sail an A for the next 2 years.
E

I think you'll have at least one year (or more) to think about it. Depending on your spouse's attitude toward sailing now that the little 'peanut' is here in the world, and your logistics (opear/nanny/sitter) you may only be off the scene for a short while. Most regattas are family events, and your family will have a wonderful time with all the other families in attendence

If, however, your spouse thinks baby is more important than sailing, you could probably find crew around the sailing locations you frequent. Steady crew could be slightly more challenging.

If your spouse wants you home 'to be a family' all the time, sell the boat and crew for other skippers. It's a lot less aggrivation than watching your boat collect spider webs and dust..

Am I a bit jaded?

Not as jaded as my sarcastic response!

Get your priorities straight! Sell the wife and kid and sail year round! (just kidding, and congrats)

After our twins were born, my wife would stand in the doorway, one in each arm, and say nice things like, "Say goodbye to your daddy girls, he would rather go die on his motorcycle than stay home with you..." when ever I would take my BMW R100 out for a ride. The bike was gone a few months after the twins arrived. The boat (J-24) had already been sold for a house down payment, the appartment we were in didn't allow kids.

My sympathetic squadron mates had a "Name the Babbies" contest, the easy winners, "No Boat, No Bike". It was 6 long, dry years before I got another boat, and I still don't have a replacement motorcycle.

Wow.

I'll tell ya, you fellers say you don't understand women. Reading stuff like this, I don't either.

I just can't understand chix who marry a guy and then go about trying to change him. My sympathies. Really Timbo, she stood in the frickin' doorway and said that to your children? Did you just not help her out at all? Sorry, I'm honestly shocked to hear that.

I learned from having an alcoholic dad that I'd WAAAAY rather have a feller with a hobby than a drunken sh!thead. Maybe if you offer your gals that comparison then they might come around. I have made that very point to a couple of 'sailing widows' at regattas, girl comes up looking for sympathy for being left on the beach, don't get nuthin' from me. Go shopping, girl. You get the guy, you get the baggage. Vicey versy.

Perhaps consider trading out baby duties and working out a sked. Marriage is about compromise, right? You EACH should be able to engage in activity outside the family duties or there will be bitterness.

Debbie and I have a traditional marriage, who ever yells the loudest wins.

Hu? How that even possible? Who's enforcing this, the landlord? Let me guess: there are also policies against pets, noises after 8pm, loud sex at anytime and parking a cat in the car park?

Yes, all of the above, here in the land of the Free...

Seems illegal to me (not a lawyer... but i did stay at a holiday inn last night)

It was in the lease we signed.

How do you explain "Adult Only" communities? Or "Over 55 Only" trailer parks. Some won't even allow the grandkids to visit!

I am probably the most jaded person I know... but here is my take on the wife/kids thing.
What I always found interesting is that somehow you are supposed to feel guilty if you occasionally go sailing and the wife is home taking care of the kid(s). I didn't have a problem not sailing to take care of the kid but I never understood why both of us had to be home and miserable when we would rather be somewhere else doing something else. My wife is somewhat into mountain biking and I was always saying "if I am going to be here, then go for a friggin bike ride or something." I think, in the end, my wife just wanted me to be home AND as miserable as she was. Made (and still makes) NO sense to me.

The landlord can make any rule(s) about the property they wish to. As long as it's in the signed lease and consistent for all tenants, then it's not discrimination and is also enforceable in the courts.

Throw you out because you get prego?

BAaaahhhhhhh (humbug)... even a signed lease wouldn't allow your civil liberties to be violated... i would bet a good attorney could successfully argue (and win) a case against such a "clause" in a lease.

Tami, for the above quotes, I will from now on always like you.

There's more reasons than that.

yeah, she's a keeper.

well shucks... thank you boys.

Y'all comments really made me feel better. Especially since I'm nursing a phenomenally, EXCRUCIATINGLY, painful hardhead catfish spine impalement to my left leg. Note to self: watch husband carefully as he brings in fish.

Sumbitch (fish, not husband) IS going in the oven, this evening, after having been marinated in lemon juice.

FWIW, sorry for the hijack, but I have learned something about hardheads: they taste like other catfish, so if you like catfish, don't just kill 'em and throw 'em away. Cut the head off, gut the fish, but leave the skin on. Scrub the slime off with one of those 3m scouring pads. Doing it this way makes cleaning much easier.

I like 'em baked, flesh comes right off the skin, just like salmon. I expect that a panfry would crisp the skin Asian style and that would be pretty good too.

Damn! I'll bet you even bait your own hooks. You're my kinda gal.

Maybe I can ship my wife up to you for summer camp.

Amen, known this girl for over 11 year (internet only, unfortunately), she's the real deal. One of these days I'll get to meet her in person.

Tami, is there any chance you could think about running a 3day "Sailor's Wife Camp"? It could feature healthy attitude adjustment for abandoned wives. Mine claims she spent a lot of time crying while I was "off sailing in regattas"- tho I still have her. AND she was REAL friendly this morning.

Hey, guys, I agree with absolutely everything Tami said.

However, this can work both ways. In my family, it was my sister who was the ardent racing sailor, and she gave it up when she married her husband, a wrestling coach. They had a couple of children. She went to all of his wrestling meets and totally supported him in his teaching career. But there was no hobby or sport that they did together.

I don't think she ever would have thought of saying anything about missing sailing. So one night many years ago at Put-in-Bay Rick got them both drunk and convinced them that Betty had to get back into sailing and that Dick had to be part of it. At the same time Rick sold them his old, beat-up Tornado.

The next morning Dick woke up and asked Betty, "Did I dream this, or did we buy a boat last night?"

Well, Betty trained Dick to become an excellent crew, and they have been racing together ever since. It's not a sport he would have chosen, and maybe not one he even enjoys that much. But it makes him happy to make his wife happy.

They helped organize and run a sailing club, they got an old Prindle for their kids to learn to sail on. So another generation learned to love sailing.

Thanks to Dick taking up his wife's sport, at this point all four of us are racing Hobie Waves against each other, and they and their daughter are now introducing the grandchildren to sailing, just as Rick and I are.

It's just an example of how marriage is a two-way street.

Hi Phil, you have a PM ;-)

Have you boys thought about maybe sending the girls to a spa weekend or something while y'all go race, or alternate weekend?

Here in Miz'sippi we have the casinos, so the beach widows tend to go gambling, or since NOLA is close they can go shop or hang out in the Quarter. One year for Round the Island a gang of us girls followed the guys around Santa Rosa I. by land, barhopping along the way. That was fun, even though I was missing racing myself. We brought food to a prearranged stop for one of our race teams, it was quite the fire drill, with much flinging of Taco Bell bags off a dock.

I do kinda find it hard to relate to spending time crying just cause the other half is at a race. Like I've said above, my perception is a bit colored from my childhood experiences. I'm not bullsh!tting y'all about that. I'm absolutely sure that my Mama would have just been on her knees thankful if my sire (can't call him father) was into some sort of sport. Please feel free to use my example if you like. something like, "Look, I could be a career drunk womanizer, but nooooo, I go sailing."

Now on the other hand, y'all might want to have a hard look in the mirror, too. I mean, does the other half get to go and do? Are the family duties biased? Maybe take a page from JW, what's that quote from O Brother? 'look to JW for your paradigm of hope."

Good grief, Tami! You are a lot more understanding than I am. I can't even imagine wanting to go to a spa. I hear they torture people there.

Thanks to Dick taking up his wife's sport...

I think you need to thank RICK, for getting them both drunk enough to buy his old Tornado!

[/quote]
Amen, known this girl for over 11 year (internet only, unfortunately), she's the real deal. One of these days I'll get to meet her in person. [/quote]

Yep, she's the real deal (excellent crew if you can get her off the helm) I miss you guys Tami! Ya'll need to come west, lake house is done, boat (cat) lift is going in soon. I'll host my own regatta soon.

Clayton

Hi Clayton! You got pix of the camp? It's at Chenier au Tigre, right? Regatta, mais yeah man, we can do that... Do it, duude...

How's the guys at Lake Chuck? Did anyone over there ever get in touch with Tommy G. about Bob Young's Stiletto? Granger may also want to sell his Stiletto "High Heeled Shoe" stock boat.

Speaking of Stiletto... Tommy G. has just about done with that absolutely bada$$ modified Stiletto. We are hoping that Jay will get a chance for a ride for Memorial Day weekend over at Lake Travis TURNBACK regatta...

It's a coincidence that I still get a kick out of - Mary's brother in-law was my high school coach and I knew him well (long before I knew anything about sailing catamarans). When he was coaching, he was an incredibly inspirational person who stood up for and inspired people from all walks of life. His coaching style was strict but completely approachable. He taught much more than wrestling in practice, and still managed to joke and have a great time with everyone while turning out a lot of state champions.

It may have been the Hobie 18 he setup during a PE class that set the bug in my brain that would develop 12 or 14 years later...who knows...but I do know that I was pretty shocked to discover this coincidence in 2002 when I went to Put-In-Bay with an old high school buddy to race my Nacra 5.2 during race week....and I got to race against (and be "over-served" in the evenings) with my high school coach and his wife Betty.

Hi Jake, Hi Mary,Hi Everyone,
I think I must comment on all of this. My husband Dick, as Mary said, is a high school wrestling coach, teacher and athletic director. From November to March our lives revolve around the wrestling schedule and lots of other activities at school. From May to October our lives revolve around sailing.
When our two children were born (2 years apart)there was a period we did not sail. The ONLY reason was money. We had none. When Rick got Dick drunk and sold him his old Tornado, we were ready. We would pack up the kids, the dog, the babysitter and the boat to go almost every weekend to a regatta.
The point being, I involved myself in whatever Dick was interested in AND Dick involved himself in whatever I was interested in = remember it works both ways.
Women = either go sailing with your man or find something to do on shore that you enjoy.
Men = do things with your women that they like OR watch the kids so she can go off to do her thing, whatever it is.
I don't understand all the complaining - probably because Dick and I have found out how it works for us.
As far as babies - congratulations - and remember they are coming into our life NOT us coming into their lives. After the first 8 weeks - believe me they will adapt to whatever livestyle you throw at them.
Dick and I hauled our kids to all the wrestling matches, football games, track meets, and regattas in the rain, sleet and snow, from the age of 3 months and I don't think it hurt them in any way.
OK so much for my two cents.
BR - sit down and talk to your wife. You may be surprised.

I am in a similar situation, but for a different reason. Looking after children is not a subject anymore (17, 19, and 21 in the meantime), so I started my first steps into sailing a few years ago with my wife. In the meantime, she is more into yacht-sailing. I recruited new crew, and with two of them I am able to participate in races, but I bought a pretty old A-cat for the rare occasions I find nobody to sail with. Right now, I sometimes join my wife and her buddies on the yacht, and she joins me from time to time. So, my advice is: keep the F18 and buy an A-Cat. You're in Europe: the time to buy such a boat is better than ever. Due to the conversion to curved dagger boards, the prices for 5-8 year old boats (Flyers) are dropping dramatically. At least here in Germany ...
Kai

Hi Wouter,

Thanks for the advice, F16 looks like a good option.

See you are located in NL.
Going to Texel this year? I be there sailing with my brother.

If so let me know, I might want to have a look at your cat.

BR
Jeroen

Hi Jeroen,

Actually, I'm not going to do Texel, sorry.

But you are always welcome to come take a look in Zandvoort. The importer for these boats (Viper and Blades) is also located there and he has some second hander F16's you can look at as well.

http://www.catamaranparts.nl/boatmarket%20f16.htm

Note : The FCA Blade F16 has been sold recently, leaving the other 4 options. I know the history of all of these so if you ever want to known more about them. Just contact me.


Looking at my cat is fine, but remember that it is a homebuild. It is actually the prototype F16, the first boat commissioned according to the rule that was then newly developped. She was also used as a test platform for the first try at F16 specific components and due to some financial squeeze over the last years she is still fitted out as she was during early 2004. While I love her to bits, she may not be of demo quality anymore. But she still looks nice from a small distance as shown in the provided picture from the F16 Global Challenge 2007 (where I raced 1-up).

Ohh, before I forget. In the past, "looking at a boat" typically included having the interested party sailing her as well.

But we do have two other (commercially build) F16's at Zandvoort, that are alot newer. So maybe meet there later in the year ?

Best of luck and enjoyment at Texel !

Wouter

Hi Wouter,

Thanks for the info.
Will consider looking you up this summer.
However I suppose it will be later in the season.

BR
Jeroen

I think a lot of previously active women think they are expected to stay at home like their mothers did and nothing makes them grumpier than watching the bloke go and have fun while they sit on the floor with the kids. They just get more tired, grumpy and bored. When they're in that routine and you stay home and say you'll do whatever they want, you end up sitting reading the paper in conpanionable silence.
(Don't ask me how I know)
My wife crewed the 5.8 last year and now crews the 5.7 and we have heaps of fun together. Now she's grumpy with me when my mate comes down to sail the big races. Let the grand parents hold the kid while your racing, let her know she's not a boring slob because she's had a kid and you need her company every Saturday.
If that doesn't work get a Blade F16, the one that sailed here last weekend was unbelievably fast just behind the F18 Infusion well ahead of me and looked hot on the water.
regards