Tornado!!!

What could I expect for tear down and setup times om a tornado?
Does everything need to come off? Or can some of the rigging be stowed attached? Mast up is not an option.
Any other drawbacks to a tornado?
Also, how tall is the rig when tilted on a tilt trailer?
And, Where could I find plans to build a tilt setup?
And
And
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It takes 2 hours to assemble a Tornado from a breakdown trailer. Tearing it down takes 1 hour. At least for us when we both had good routines and knew the job.

We tore it down completely every time. With a tilt trailer you can save quite some time as the trampoline can be attached and you can actually trailer the mast rigged over very short distances.

Contact Mike Dobbs for tilt trailer info.

You can get in touch with a great Tornado community over at the Yahoo group: TornadoCat

The Tornado is an incredible boat, but without mast up storage or a thriving Tornado fleet close by I would not go for one and I love that boat. I sailed and owned tornados for 8 years.. They are quite hard to get the best from.

I agree with Rolf. My tornado has seen little use due to the lack of mast up storage. It takes me 4 hours the first time I set it up and 2 to breakdown. Once I have set it up a couple of times, I am back down to 2 up and 1 down.

If you have a tilt trailer that carries the boat upside down and rotates it down onto is dolly, setup/tear down
time is substantially reduced

Only the rudder assembly and mast are removed from the boat.
The spin halyard is detached from the spinnaker, cleared from the mast and coiled in the pocket on the tramp.
The shrouds are detached from the mast only and secured to the hiking straps.
The forestay, jib halyard and trapeeze equipment are tied to the base of the mast.
Everything else is secured in place to the boat.

30 minutes from parking to putting up the sails.

Beautiful boat and a really nice package! Gougeon or Houlton cold moulded? Is it yours?

1980 Houlton boat. Tornado's are special primarily due to their
10' beam, but the resulting difficulty of transporting and assembling the boats has always been the primary factor in its lack of popularity. When I had a breakdown trailer it was such a hassle to put the boat together that I got a Prindle 18-2 (my all time favorite boat) and sailed that much more than the T.

About 10 years ago Greg Scace and I designed and built some tilt trailers that worked really well. A rotating cradle picks the platform up off the blocks and and rotates it 135 degrees so it rests upside down at at a 45 degree angle. It's a simple wire rope mechanisim that does the lifting. I hooked mine up to a small 12V winch. I think Greg still has plans. To me it was always worth the hassle to build the trailer because the boat is so great to sail.
Kevin Cook

Just qurious: Do you know the weight of the boat today and what is the hull and beam seating stiffness like? (I assume the beams are the small diameter ones). I always try to get real info on wooden boats and how they hold up under high stress like on a T.

Rolf,
I built a Houlton Tornadu in 1981. The platform weight is 284 lbs. (apologize for english units!). But that is the class minimum. A 4 oz. layer of glass on the outside will add 6 lbs. The connections are not as stiff as Marstron but I don't have any numbers on this. Perhaps David knows?
Kevin

I think wood is even better than glass/foam sandwich (lets keep carbon out if it) when it comes to being stiff/string and durable that is why I ask

What happens to the centreboards. how come they don't fall out when you store it upsidedown? do you take them out to store them separately?

Now on a tangent I told my wife yesterday that when she wants to start sailing again we are going to have to get an F18, she stears i pull the strings, she didn't like that idea or stearing until i told her that we would be better with the brains at the back and brawn at the front. When i said "or a tornado", were she replied "Cool!"

God I love her.

I built my trailer from CAD plans I bought from Greg Scace.The plans were wone of my best investments.
The boat has held up to heavy use in San Francisco Bay conditions. I pulled out one chainplate due to operator error but have had no other structural problems with the boat.
The platform is not as stiff as the Marstroms primarily because of the small cross section beams, but given the choice I would rather upgrade the boat with Marstrom foils rather than fat beams.
The hulls have been holed and repaired a couple of times and the platform is still within 2kg of minimum weight. I have only seen one Gougeon/Houlton/Walker boat that needed correctors. Building to minimum weight in wood is difficult.
The beams seats are epoxy/micro balloons and do wear. I redid the beam seats 4 years ago and have not taken the boat apart since then.

The cold molded Tornado has outlived all the glass cats I have owned. I think the strip plank F-16's are worth the extra time and effort in construction.

I spend my day on a Tornado today. Nothing that exciting however, it's one of the rib we use for safety duty...

I would rather have used one of those wooden tornado!

How tall is it when sitting on the tilt trailer?

On my trailer it was about 8 feet 10 inches high if memory serves me. And David's trailer is the same design now that I look at it more closely.
Kevin

Sharp eyes. The centerboards are held forward in the slot by shock cords that disappears in the beam. The bottom board can only fall down a couple of inches before it hits the deck of the trailer, and I always put a strap around the top hull at the cb case so the board is restrained from falling out, even though it has never shown any tendency to do so. The trailer is heavy enough that even crossing the Golden Gate Bridge with
25-35mph gusts hitting at 90 degrees it does not blow around noticably.

I calculated it could take 60 MPH sideways without tipping with 300 lbs of ballast on the deck of the trailer. I used a couple of cast concrete blocks. I think Greg used something more elegant like lead filled steel tubing. Weight of the trailer/ballast was 940 LBS.

Is this including the height of the trailer? My shop is 11' tall and I need to know if it will fit.
Also, how hard would it be to right? I have a large righting bag and total skipper and crew weight #360.
Are there areas on the Marstrom that I should check spacifically for wear? My understanding is that this boat was used for olympic training somewhere along the line, but I dont know if it has been rode hard and put up wet since then.

azcat,
I have capsized several times on my boats and always been able to self right without help. The mast tube is sealed so you have a minute to get crew weight out to windward before the boat turtles. We use a righting line on the mast base that hooks into the trap harness and thats all you need. The only exception was once in a violent squall when we blown end over end and dismasted. If you ever do turn turtle on a 10 foot wide boat you would need help to right her. But there is so much more stability you have to really work to capsizie in the first place. 11 feet is enough headroom to fit the trailer with the boat on it.

I just got a Tornado about a month and a half ago. It took me about 3 to 4 hours to set it up the first time. Now, it's about 2 hours together and about an hour and 20 minutes to take it apart and get it on the trailer.

My T is also a Marstrom. They should be pretty solid. I didn't find any problems with mine. I would check for wear and tear on the standing and running rigging mainly.

Also, the TornadoCats Yahoo group has lots of good info. Mike Dobbs has plans for a tilt trailer.

Hope this helps,

--Jorge

My Dad & I designed our flying hull trailer based on a design popular in the '70's.

Made completely out of alloy, it can be built using a hand drill and circular saw...no welding is needed (or recommended...reduced strength by destroying temper of the alloy).

The advantages of the design are that the boat can be carried tilted or completely dismantled (much better for long trips to save fuel), the boat can be stored on the trailer flat for mast up/drysail yards and the boat can be "floated off" the trailer for ramp launching...makes it possible to launch/recover completely single-handed.




I have used the original prototype for quite a few years now, doing 3 trips from Ventura, CA to Houston, TX, 1 trip to Miami & back plus many weekend excursions to Long Beach & San Diego.


More pics and assembly photos here:

Full Tilt Trailer Construction

Hey Tornado Fans!

Got a question I just picked up a bare Marstrom Tornado CF spar. Although I’m not using it on a tornado I’d like to rig it out like a tornado. I need to get information on the rigging such as boom, heel, and spreaders. Also I’d like to know where I could purchase such parts new or used. Any information would be helpful.

Thanks

When you say "bare"...you mean you've got the spar but no fittings at all? Strange...they usually come from Sweden with everything in place.

Spreaders are CF "winglets" with adjusters for rake angle. Ultimately pretty simple setup, but the stock shape is impressively nice. Rod diamonds are spec'd for CF masts in the class rules, though cable could work. Do you have the mast foot? It has the diamond tension adjuster built-in. Boom is pretty usual...gooseneck on the CF mast is a simple stainless fitting that pivots left/right:



Boom forward cap has a solid stainless square-rod that slips into the pivot and secures via single bolt. Some teams have fitted the Marstrom cap to different boom sections like the Tiger (more square...allows for easier internal mainsheet setup).

Check out Marstrom's web store for parts list & most items have good pictures. That is the only place you can find new components. Used, you've got to track down campaign teams.

You might like to review my rigging photos for other details here:

Tornado Shots

A mini towing a tornado !!! What about a Hummer H2 towing an Optimist ? Did you have to tow your tornado down the highway ?

Were you in SW Florida with your Father lately?

I was there with my father to pick the boat up about a month and a half ago.

--Jorge

Did I "have to"...No! Did I? Yes! Mini has loads of power (160 hp w. supercharger) and is actually quite heavy for its size. Trailer (alloy) and boat weigh in at under ~900 lbs. Pulls quite easily on the freeway and even up the big grades we have around here. I used to pul a steel tilt trailer with a VW Rabbit...that was more challenging...less power, lighter car and softer suspension.
I no longer use the mini for longer trips (>100 miles) as I have a Eurovan pop-top weekender for regattas...no more stanky motels.

Thought so. I tied it down with you. Hope all went well on the drive home.

Bob, you and my dad did a really good job getting everything secured. We didn't have any problems at all on the drive. Thanks again for your help.

--Jorge

You should give Robbie and Jill a call. 727-793-8743. They may have what you're looking for.

Mike Dobbs,

Thanks for the information great pic. I'll look at the link.
Mike Shappell

What is the chance anybody has a pic of the mounting bolt. Is it a SS bolt with a ball? Does it go to a dolphin striker? Any pics?

The mast mounts on a simple stainless steel stub about the size of a thumb tip. This is the end of a long bolt passing into/threw the main beam into the striker post. There is no hinge mechanism so stepping the mast is always fun ;-)

I will try to get you a pic tomorrow...my boat is sitting out on the driveway.

Mast step:



More mast related pics posted here:

Rigging Album

Mike,

Yes I see and that may work for my application. I will be mounting a “post” in a bulkhead that will come up through the deck for a mast step. Since this is all inches over my head I’m looking for a proven system. That gives me enough meat to fabricate off of. Is the ring a collar or washer? Interesting no type of hinge now I see why this boat was selected for an Olympic event.

Can anybody tell me if this a weak point of the design, the mast foot - step should I look for something else? With all of race time for the tornados under extreme conditions any word do these break?

What is the trick for stepping the mast besides having a carbon mast? I’m sure there are many stories.

Thanks for the pictures it is a great help.

Mike Shappell

The ring at the stub base is more of a shoulder/flange...all the same material...either machined or forged as one.

The early T's (that were the boats "selected" for the games did have a hinge system. Marstroms dispensed with it...even on the earlier alu mast. The trick to raising/lowering the stick is to keep downward pressure on the foot as another person walks it up/down. I stand at teh beam, put one hand onto the mast foot and lean heavily on it. Other hand holds a trapeze handle and exerts as much force as possible forward. Critical angle is about 45 degrees...then the weight starts to shift down onto the foot more and stub engages better with the cup.

Robbie Daniel showed me a neat technique...with the mast positioned to raise, stand on the front beam with one foot on the mast foot while holding a traphandle. Start leaning forward, putting wieght on the foot and on the trap. The other person acts to guide, start the list...but the work is done by the human gin pole effect. Trick is to keep the mast from rotating under your foot, which can cause you to slip off the mast foot, creating a dangerous spar fall. Lowering the mast is the reverse of this procedure. Brillant when/if it works.

One thing to consider for your application...since there is no captive mast foot, you cannot use things like shroud extenders/hyfield levers etc to assist in boat righting after capsize. Also depending on how much flex your design has, you might need to look at a different base setup...excessive flex might slacked the rig enough to cause an unstepping situation.

In all the years of Tboats I have, have never heard of these mast feet failing...and they do run higher rig/mainsheet loads than the usual 20 beach cat. Some of the older cast alloy designs have reported to crack...after 20+ years and perhaps with owners running more modern rig settings/tensions on older boats.

Within a year of the carbon mast introduction. Marstrom notified owners that the base of the mast where the foot inserts into was developing cracks...due to the higher than spec'd main downhaul purchases (8:1 vs 16:1) being used by lots of teams. Since the downhaul acts against the foot, forcing it into the spar base at very high loads, the spar end was failing. The fix was to wrap a layer or two of carbon tape around the lower edge to reinforce the area. You can see this wrap in some of my photos. I likely used way more width on this tape than was needed...but it was my first ever carbon work.

If your spar is a recent build, I suspect it has likely got more layers there already.