TYBEE, and SCHRS

Wow.. the earth moved under the feet of US Sailors today.

Not only did the Tybee get scored on handicap and in one design class... (My personal favorite old saw)

BUT... they are using SCHRS measurement ratings and not portsmouth

Woo woo!!

Whoever made these calls... Thank you!

What is interesting is the very obvious split in the corrected time results. Typically this occurs if either the ratings are up the creek or the weather gave one class a huge advantage.

So the question is, if this was F18 prefered conditions (in comparison to N20) when will the N20 be clearly advantaged?

A third option, is that those sailing the F18's are better sailors and made better decisions regarding route......

Looking at the video from yesterday(light winds), the N20's SHOULD have romped it as they could get on the wire as they have more power?

There has been some mention of heavy weather, on the nose, later in the week.

But then their kites may not be able to be carried to the same height. Meaning you end up with nacras 2 sail reaching Vs F18s 3 sail double trapping. This was definately happening for some of the race. Its hard to believe (although possible) that all bar 1 F18 crew is better than all the Nacra 20 crews. I actually think what we are seeing is evidence the N20 needs a new sail plan it if wants to stay dominant in this style of racing. Passage races are rarely straight upwind or down so the sails need to be able to cope with other options.

But then the F18's have smaller rigs and similar righting moment. What would you choose.

F16!

Time will tell but the I've always heard the 20 is a better open water boat. Longer, fuller bows and all that.

With all respect to the guys sailing the 20s (I wouldn't even attempt this race), the 18s have more talent on the water.

The only thing I'm certain of: catamaran sailing is marketable.

There is a lot of racing left, let's give it a couple of days. And yes there is a lot of talent in the F18 fleet.

It was a very tight reach starting with about 5 knots of breeze building to 15+ over the course of the day. The F18's were able to set their spins early in the light air and hold their line, whereas it was too tight for the N20's. Then once the breeze came on, the F18's were again able to hold their lines while the N20's set their spins, drove down to the beach, drop, reach back up and reset.

The N20 that won line honors (Royal Yellow) set themselves up high early on, and it paid off.

We took the low road and passed 15 boats in the last 40 miles.

The Infusion was a machine in those conditions. We were both chickenlined in at the back beam reaching at 20knots. We would blast through a 4' wave up to the beam, drop down to 15 knots, shake it off, and take off again.

So are you saying the N20 kites are cut too full and so cannot be carried high enough?

Yes the F18's have less sail and similar RM so will be able to carry their kites higher is the wind gets to the critical band; however, I was very surprised in the footage I saw that the F18's were twin wiring with the kite up and the 20's were just sitting in with the kite in the sock, why did the 20's not pop the kite, drop the halyard 18 inches (flattens most kites except really bad ones) and continue the fight, maybe with dumping some traveller?

Kudos!

What are you doin to me man? You're given away the code. I haven't tried 18" in a while, but certainly some easing of luff tension is good while trying to go high.

wow... when i try to point higher (with the spin out) i always make sure the halyard is all the way up, and sheet in as hard as possible... please explain how dropping the halyard helps you point higher.

thanks -

It flattens the entry to sail. It does allow you to carry it higher but it also moves the forward vector further aft (am I saying that right?) giving more healing moment with less forward speed. The trick is knowing when to pull the plug, just because you can carry it doesn't always mean you're going faster. As with anything sailing it just depends.

It's really easy to see. Go out on on a light air day sail as high you can with a full hoist then drop halyard the change really jumps right out at you.

Thanks David. I will try it next sail...

Will you be around to help me right my cat? (kidding)

I'll tell you why. In those conditions you pop the kite on the N20 and you hold it for a minute. The littlest puff comes through and suddenly you have to turn 50 degrees downwind to keep from flipping dragging you into shore where you are just going to have to drop it immediately to come back up. So instead you reach high and fast gaining height without any loss in speed. Then when you are high enough you pop the chute and try to hold it high as long as you can. Rinse and repeat. That's what Steve did and he won the leg.

This was definitely F18 condition with the high reaching. Heavy air upwind the F18's will kill also. The N20 comes alive in the 8-12knots dead down wind condition. If and when they get that you will see the opposite result of what they had yesterday with all the N20's killing the F18's.

Exactly! There is so much racing left.

For further guide, I look at the spin luff looking for, lets say a knuckle or bend in the luff not due to wind. When my halyard is all the way up the luff is tight, you can grab the luff and try to turn it and get nothing. I usually have my spin haylard eased 4"-6" in light to moderate conditions. Moderate and above tight. I would prefer to be able to ease the tack line, but I have an end pole snuffer. I had a sailmaker out with me one time who was trying to figure out the 6.0 since he was making us new sails. at ont point we had the old Worrell style spin up and needed to get above an obstacle. He eased the tack line off so the tack was near the leeward bow and I could drive much higher. Not sure about going faster as Dave points out...

Interesting info. Thanks for the data

i will have to try this out. I have let off on the tack line in light air before, but not to point higher...

We had almost the same thing happen on the last day of the Sakonnet 100 last year. All of the F18's and I-20's finished within about 7 minutes of each other. In a fresh breeze, the boats are pretty equal, because of the reaching speed with the F18 chute up and dbl traps.

are the boats about equal in dealing with lumpy water?

Let's just imagine that for the purposes of this question, the wind direction/speed were to put the boats at equal footing

The Nacra 20 owes the F18 3 minutes 56 sec per hour of racing under SCHRS. (Scooby... is that an official rating/)

It's a little less under Texel of 3 minutes 34 secs per hour.

Under USPN the difference drops to 3 minutes (2min 59 sec)

The rating system differences are swamped by the prevailing wind direction and pressure.

As Smyth proved over and over again... you need to have an advantage in the light air. In time on time racing... you just can't make up the time when the breeze is on.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the N20 sailplan had been developed to the degree of the F18's. I bet they would have the same low end gears.

Likewise, if the breeze is on... the 20's really want extra beam oh... say about 10 feet to take advantage of the power....

This is a classic horses for courses game! Who knows what mother nature has in mind next.

Yes. It's official if it is on the site.

The rating detail is here

F18's are 8'2.5" beam, correct? so 98.5" vs N20's 102". Maybe about 3% difference in righting moment? I had a N20 and sold it, partly due to the complexity of rigging for a somewhat-casual sailor like myself, but partly also because of Performance's insistence on one-manufacturer "one-design" sails. This may be eased a bit now, I saw a report of the "Skip Elliot" spinnakers failing. Back in ought-seven, Elliot/Pattison was the maker of record. Anyway, hope the best sailor wins and nobody gets hurt out there.

Andrew the F18 is 2.6m wide same as the N20. the n20 is 3 kilos lighter and has a bigger main.

What weight are the N20 boats sailing at?

Well this is what they advertise... the actual weight might be something else.


http://nacra.us/N20/n20index.html

Length:20' (6.10m)
Width:8'6" (2.59m)
Mast Length:32' (8.13m)
Weight:390 lbs. (177kg)
Mainsail with Mast:208 sq. ft.
Jib:53 sq. ft. (4.15m2)
Spinnaker:270 sq. ft. (23m2)
Construction: vinylester foam, sandwich hulls

This is nothing like what the boat we have measured for SCHRS.

All up weight is different(we have a heavier boat), Spi area different(we have 25sqm vs 22), Jib Different (4.72 vs 4.15), mainsail similar.

however there is not need to panic.

i just plugged the other values into the rating engine and the reduced sail area and reduced weight changed the rating to 0.938 instead of the measured boat at 0.939 so I do not think this will make a lot of difference.