Whats the preferred method to taper a mainsheet?

I have done a few searches and can't find the answer. I know it has been discussed (at least mentioned) but i am interested in learning how to taper my main. I currently have 9mm Robline Racing Sheets (12 strand, single braid) but would consider other types...

Thanks

I use Robline spliced to 1/4 Vectran. I like it alot. I put holes in the sides of each then run the other through so it will be in a locked position (similar to how a figure eight locks). Then I push the tails into the opposite side to hide them. You will need to shave the Robline into a taper before stuffing. The Vectran goes in okay.

Later,
Dan

Dan,
Gotta pic?

Which would be better?
spicing two lines or
tapering a line by removing the cover

Andrew, do you have feminine hands???? 9mm is pretty damn thick! you will find that going onto a thinner sheet will reduce the friction through the blocks and the amount of effort required to pull the main on. 7mm should be heaps.

tapering will help to reduce the load further.

i have deleted 3 very sarcastic responses to you and am trying to "take the high road" here.

i wouldn't describe myself as having "feminine hands".

I dont use gloves often anymore. I had 7mm and it didn't work for me when there was 15-20 knots (or above)....

This is why i am asking about tapering it...... !!!! ..... !!!! i know it is a bit thick and will run better if tapered to a lighter line...

if you are going to 1/4 vectran, why not 3/16 or even 1/8? it isn't like you are pulling on it and even 7/64 dyneema is certainly strong enough.
guess the transition point may get a little lumpy though and the core of the robline may not fit into the really small dyneema. but maybe you could bury the taper super duper duper long .

Thats Ok Andrew, I had to delete what I was going to write at least three times... and that IS my version of the "high road"

maybe we should look at the reasons why your suffering, do you not have enough purchase? does the ratchet not grip the rope well enough? are you using a poor technique to grip the rope?

I know I am kinda new to this forum to be trash talking but Andrew judging by your avatar Dazz may be on to something... The pinky point out may just be your problem unless you are taking noon tea.

Hi,

actually there is a third method:
Take a double braided line and remove the core. The big advantage is thet the transition point is very smooth and it is done very easy (no splicing, no tapering).
Liros offer a sheet called Magic Sheet 7 or 9mm with a PP core and Lancline in various diameters called Diminution.
Liros Lancline
Actually you can take any double braided line, but if the core is stronger (e.g. dyneema) than the outer braided, ropes tend to kink or curl, ones a high load was applied. Something I learned from Dinghi sailors and it is true.

I use currently 7mm and think that is ok, if your main has not more than 15sqm. But agreed, it is pain in more than 20kts of wind. I guess 8mm is the good number.

Cheers,

Klaus

I had APS Ltd 's rigging shop make up my mainsheet...it is Maffoli Swiftcord 5/16 (or metric equiv.) where I hold it. This line is very easy on the hands and provides a great grip (soft, fuzzy, not hard). Tapers to a 3/16 (3mm) spectra (dyneema) tail that runs through most of the blocks when fully sheeted on hard. I have 9:1 on 57mm quad blocks (upper) plus a lower triple with two 40mm blocks hanging off the cleat support arms.



The line flys with this taper.

Here's another extreme example:




But, I've now got a cool 9:1 internal (boom) cascade to swap in the next time I head out for a sail. It's similar to this one:



I also had APS make up a forked tail of more 5mm spectra section on my traveller line. The fork is used to tie off to the beam after the traveller car. There are two small ring fittings either side of centerline which is where the tails are tied. This setup gives a very good centering effect on the traveller when pulled in.

You can measure out what & where the splicining/tapers need to go and APS will do the rest for a reasonable fee. It is fussy to get the whipping/tranistions done right so they hold up well...esp. for the mainsheet.

Haha... its cool Wing nut... i typically don't keep my hand like that... i was doing a dakine hand gesture for the camera...

i am certain my harken 8-1 ratchomatic system is working correctly. my grip has not ever been an issue (as far as i know).

i was "suffering" in high winds because the line digging into my hands more than i prefer (only in higher winds)...

We have had bigger air than usual this spring and i decided that when its blowing 25 is when i need to have the best grip... so i swithced to a bigger line.

It actually runs through the blocks very well, but i recently swapped boats with Catman for an hour and loved his tapered sheets...

Yes, but Dyneema Blended Single Braids (robline racing, Swiftcord , Salsa) are very nice on the hands... unlike any double braid i have felt.



That size was not available

Agreed, the Lancline Diminution is dyneema blended, but I am not sure if it is available over the pond.

Cheers,

Klaus

I care little for what you think of me but I like a nice soft feel for the mainsheet. I sail Formula 18...maximum purchase allowed is 10:1. I would make that doubled if I could. I sheet the main the whole time as Eileen does not want to. The line I hold is very thick, I admit, that is why I like to taper it for the blocks. For that I use 1/4 Vectran, I do not think 3/16 makes much difference. The problem is when going to splice it you need to make sure you can hide the thicker line in the thinner line so there has to be enough room for it.

There are other lines designed for tapering. You peel off the outer layer and you have a tapered line. They look cool in the pictures. I do not use them so cannot give you any information other than to say they are available.

Later,
Dan

Thanks Dan.. sounds like what i want to do. i am not sure i understand the method "I put holes in the sides of each then run the other through so it will be in a locked position". can you eleaborate or do you have a picture?

thanks

I am sorry Dan, I have looked and cannot find any reference to max purchase in the f-18 rules. Might be a practical limit rather than an actual rule.

Ok andrew just for you, some close up pics...

you can see the core exits the outer about 5 inches from the end, the outer is then through the core. so basically both the outer and the inner pass though each other... then the remaining outer is buried inside the core. the constriction force of the core wrapped around the out will make it a very strong joint.

Dont pay some one to do it, gets some fids and do it yourself, its pretty easy once you get the hang of it.

If you do it, make sure to taper the extremities properly so the join is smooth. Last week end at Rutland the leading F18 had to come back ashore without finishing the first race because their main sheet broke right at the taper. The transition was really abrupt. From your pictures Dazz I'd say the outer is not tapered enough inside the core in yours.

And I agree with Dazz, nothing in the F18 box rule limits your main purchase. However more than 10:1 without a cascade would be quite a lot of rope around...

Thanks Dazz. I have lots of fids and even a Brian Toss wand.

Did you use a double braid and removed the outer or is that 2 different lines spliced together? It sure looks like the later to me...

PS Brian Toss calls for a taper to be 24 x the diameter

thanks

It's a liros magic pro sheet that comes with a spectra core. originally its only a 6mm rope but i removed the core and added another 4mm core inside the core. the extra core fattens up the sheet just nicely.

24x4mm = 96mm or 4 inches there abouts. but the splice has no structural value as the core runs the entire length of the sheet without joins and carries the load.

Pepin, your right about the taper, havnt finished this sheet yet, just happened to be making a new one tonight.

so you have a 6mm outerbraid with a 4mm core ...

shouldn't it be 24x6mm? (144mm /5.7inches)

New wildcats have a 11:1 main sheet. Bit overkill i think, thinks it o just try and outdo the infusion, but 11:1 is too much on a f18, 10;1 is plenty. Bundy had cut his down to a 9;1

I think they put more purchase on the Wildcat mainsheet because it has a fatter head and shorter foot thus requiring more force to "close" the top.
Personally I think 9:1 is fine.

I like the first setup Tornado posted (maffioli swiftcord to dyneema), any chance to find instructions somewhere to do this???

I still like 8:1 - it takes a lot of muscle, but you can actually trim from the skipper position with an arm movement.

Andrew, the 6mm outer becomes a 4mm line without a core in it. have a 6 inch splice if you want, not going to hurt either way.

Jake, when you move onto a sail with 1 meter square top you need less travel to have the same effect. I agree 11:1 is too much, I find 10:1 is over the top sometimes.

We use an 8:1 with the Harken 75mm block at the bottom. This seems to reduce the sheeting effort vs. the 57mm and you avoid the extra rope of the 9:1

I use a double braid and bury the cover into the core in a taper splice. I don't weave the cover through the core - just a straight bury to keep things smooth. I lock stitch at intervals along the double braid and once in the buried cover section to keep things secure. I don't whip - this stiffens up the line and screws up how it runs through the blocks. I use 3/8 regatta trophy braid and replace the core with 1/4" spectra. I then splice in 3/16" spectra into the 1/4" with a taper splice.

Doing splicing on old sheets is a lot harder than starting out with brand new line. In fact sometimes if a sheet has been loaded up hard it is impossible (or certainly beyond my skill level) - so do yourself a favor and learn your taper splicing craft with some new line - just sacrifice a couple of feet for experiments.

Splicing robe line or maffioli swiftcord can be a little fiddly. One secret I found is to extract the strands you wish to trim for the taper starting at the end and working back towards where you want to cut. This is different than working with 12 strand single braid high modulus (e.g. spectra or vectran) where you can pull the strands out right where you want to make a cut. The 'fuzzier' robe line seems to snaggle up if you try and pull out a strand all at once.

Use the resources on the yale and samson websites for splicing instructions.

Main sheet size is a trade off - if a sheet is a little larger there will be more friction through the blocks - so it won't unsheet quite as fast and there will be more effort required to sheet in vs. a thiner line. On the other hand - a larger sheet can be more comfortable to pull on under high load. This can make it more likely that the sheet will be played in a puff rather than leaving it where it is and steering. The longer you are on the water the more this can matter - so skinny sheets might be a better choice for buoy racing vs. distance racing.

Chris.

I agree if you are sailing around a buoy course with refined upwind sailing. However, we often find ourselves (in distance racing) on a gonzo reach and the 10:1 is just too slow to get back in after a gonzo blast.

Thanks to all that helped with data

I love my 10:1 and you'd have to pry it out of my cold dead hands before I go back to 8:1. Real skippers trim their own main :-)