Sail Numbers

I'm a new member, but I've been a reader for several years There is some great advise on this board and I hope to add to it from time to time. My question is how do you determine what your correct sail number is? I'm in the process of putting a '86 Prindle 19 back on the water and the sails that came with the boat do not have a number. They are probably replacements. Can you tell from the ID number what it is? My number is SURE0142H86. Any help decoding it would be appreciated. The local club (and most others)needs a number for their races. Thanks

You can put any number you want on your sail, as long as there is not an identical number racing against you, you'll be OK. There really is no "Official" numbering system anymore like there used to be many years ago when it was just Hobie's and Prindle's and they used hull numbers like the Mono guys still do.

If you are going to join a one-design type class (I don't think the Prindle 19 has one at this time) you would have to check with the class registration people and see if anyone else already has the number you want to use, but other than that, pick your favorite "Lucky Numbers" and use those. Oh, and it could be just a single number, or two, three, what ever. We have had two boats show up with the same sail number at a few regattas but a quick modification with duct tape will fix that. 1 becomes 7, that type of thing.

Good Luck!

Thanks Timbo. I may have showed my age a little, but now that you mention it, I do remember a system tied to hull numbers. The boat is coming together great and I should have it on the water soon.

Any advice on the MX conversion?

Mx Conversion is excellent,especially if you sail heavy or in light air.Put a kite on it while your at it.I had an MX with a 475 sq. ft. chute, it was awesome.
Todd

My old boat had James Bond look after I rebuilt it so I chose "007". Sail marker will put any number you want on it. At least Sabre did when Bob Curry cut mine.

Doug

Here's a thought for you guys with non-sailing wives (like me) who might need a little -help- with new boat purchase approval.

30 years ago I flew for a charter company out of Boston. The owner wanted to buy a Lear Jet. Just like us with our boats, you can -never- have enough airplanes!

Anyway, his business partner (wife) said the same thing our wives say when we try to justify a new boat. So he says, "It's for YOU honey! So we can fly to our winter house in Sarasota in 3 hours instead of wasting a whole day on the Airlines."

But here's the part you need to put in your play book, "I'll name it after YOU!"

Well, nobody puts "names" on their Lear Jet, (this ain't WW2) so instead he put their wedding anniversary date on the tail as the official FAA Registered Tail Number: 856JB, which stood for Aug. 1956, John and Bernice.

So next time you want a new boat (or just a new mainsail?) tell her you are going to;

1: name the boat after her or
2: put your anniversary as the sail number.

Hey, it's worth a shot.

3: get a clean set of sheets ready... .you may be sleeping on the couch for a while!

I think my next boat will be named

"what part of HELL NO don't you understand?"

Or maybe "Over my dead body", but that sounds a little creepy

Timbo,
It's also a good idea to name your boat for your children. That's what my father did. His Lightning was Mary Bet, and his Shark catamaran was Mary Bet. It seemed to work, because Mary and Betty are still sailing and racing more than 50 years later.

Still my all time favorite boat name was the big IOR boat, back in the mid 80's I think, "FUJIMO!"

Everyone thought it was some type of Japanees word for Storm, or Wind or something because there was another big IOR boat named TSUNAMI. But when they interviewd the owner and asked what it meant he said, "I named it after my ex-wife. It means "F-U Jane, I'm moving OUT!"

Priceless.

My next door neighbor had a ratty old wooden cabin cruiser of a powerboat he named DILLIGAF. It looked like crap, paint peeling, missing a window or two, etc.

But that name?? I had to ask. He just looked at me and said, "DO I Look Like I Give A Fk?"

Do you have the newer longer elliptical rudders? Those are worth the update. The MX conversion is worth it if you are purchasing new sails.

No. I still have the original square bottom ones. What do the elliptical rudders do for the boat? Also, somewhere on this board I have read that you should keep the old style jib and just go with the MX main if you are going to run a chute. Any thoughts? I'd bet a used set up would be pretty hard to find. Plus when you consider the cost, it makes more sense to sell the boat and buy a newer one.

Longer rudders make up for the somewhat skimpy centerboards preventing lateral drift, providing lift, and better control going downwind with speed, especially with the MX sailplan. I decided that I ever wanted to sail with spin I would sell the P19 and buy a boat that was designed for one. I was perfectly happy sailing the original rig, original rudders for 12 years. If you would like more power, more speed, etc. then you might prefer the upgrades. The new jib comes all the way down to the level of the bridle tangs. That leaves no room for the spinnaker pole. I suspect you have read Harry's posts on the subject.

Hi Timbo

You can probably youtube, Kevin Bloody Wilson, theres bound to be his song from the same name DILLIGAF.

Thanks! I'll look for it.

My next boat will be

"Jenny"

Sail number

8675309

My ears began to burn and my nose began to twitch .... someone mention my name????

Hi Bob and Hi Derrick,

How's it going???

Derrick, have you researched some of my previous posts here on 'CatSailer' about the P19(MX)? Have you sailed on a P19? It's one of the best, smoothest sailing beach cats there is ... and the way the spray from the leeward bow makes pretty rainbows in the sunlight .... awesome. Its like you are making you own personal rainbow, it makes me smile everytime it occurs.

Thats the spiritual aspect, now onto some technical issue ....

First check you front crossbar for stress/fractures/cracking at the end of were the dolphin striker attaches to the crossbar near the hulls. You will find a post on how to reinforce and stiffen this area of the crossbar but it must be done before it fractures.

The issue w/ the origonal 'short' rudder blades is when you are reaching along the leeward bow is driven deeper into the water and the sterns lift up .... until the bow is actually deeper in the water then the rudder blade. This means the rudder blade is in 'disturbed' turbulent water w/o any laminar flow over the rudder blade .... this results in ... NO HELM CONTROL!!!! You find yourself on a screaming beach cat and you can not steer. Now this is a minor issue until you are in a fleet of other boats (like P19's) racing along and you notice the guy in front of you looking at their rudders and looking around nervously ... and the guy in front of him is also looking at their rudders and nervously looking around ..... and the guy in front of him is .... And everyone is praying the samething ... Please Lord, don't let anyone screw up ....

Now the simple solution is that the rudder blade must be longer, this can be done several ways. The 'origonal' P18 square bottomed rudder blades were longer and some owners have converted to them but they are getting hard to find. You can extend your P19 blades cutting off the last 1", hollowing out the inside (3-4"'s), adding a wooden core shaped to fit inside the hollowed out blade, and then re-skin w/ epoxy and fiberglass cloth. Or you can purchase the new longer 'elipitcal' blades ... but .....

The new blades have a habit of splitting along the seam from the top down. The blade is manufactured by making the two fiberglass sides seperately , then they are placed in a mold and injected w/ a "filler. Think of the filler as a "putty". The splitting at the rudder head along the seam is caused by internal shear stresses generated by the blade deflecting/bending. (Example: Place your palms together, and slide one palm against the other while tring to curve your fingers to one side or the other ... see what happens???) Look carefully for the seam cracking at the lock down pin up and over the head of the rudder blade. This can be prevented by locking the two sides together, I did this by drilling a pattern of 18-20 3/8" holes from side to side and installing 3/8" wooden dowels set in WEST Epoxy. Sanded them flush (also removing the gelcoat) and I also using 3" wide fiberglass cloth tape sealed the seam w/ two layers of epoxy and tape/cloth. Then I the re-skinned the head of the rudder blade (I needed the room to fit into the rudder casting after the re-skinning hence the removal of the .10"/side of gelcoat earlier.) When I re-skinned the rudder head I did each side seperately making sure to lapp the cloth over to the otherside covering the seam ... sanding and fairing in between. (that makes 4 layers on the seams) The rudder blades have held up for +5years now w/ no problem. I course when I had to do this my blades were already split (one quite badly, so first I had to bond the pieces back together first w/ epoxy and clamps), so I had to do a little extra so salvage the blade vs a new 'out of the box' blade. You maybe able to just 'dowel' the blade, seal the seam w/ 1-2 layers ....

I also filled the lock-down pin so as to be more rounded and sloped where it locks into/onto the casting. Makes locking down the rudders easier.

Oh, before I forget .... my boat ... serial #SURE0231B686 .... sail#86 (origonally and still current)

If you have any questions research my old posts or contact me and I'll try to answer them

HarryMurphey
TheMightyHobie18(Mag)/P19(MX)

Hey Todd,

I'm curious .... does your I/N20 make pretty rainbows like your ol' P19 did?????

Sounds like you had a great time in Texas.

Harry

The N-20's so fast the rainbows are way behind you. Can't look back that far so I couldn't tell you.I think the speed of light has something to do with it.
I can't recall my P-19 making rainbows. You sure your not reliving your party years(did you have party years?)ala a flashback? Maybe you need to fair your hulls.So are you a member of the Rainbow Brigade now?
Sounds like the guy I sold mine to has let it go way down hill, breaks my heart to think about it. I've still got the 15' pole and the 475 sq. ft. kite.maybe I'll stick it on my P-16. Sorry I missed Rockhall, the GT was a fun one. We had alot of boat issues, which held us back right much, but had a blast anyway.
Tawd

LOL

Hehe, awesome


HAHA!! the best one yet!

Todd,

To answer your question, while I was not upset upon hearing Micheal Jackson passed on .... I do miss Jerry Garcia!!! ... one of my Top Ten Songs is "Mexicali Blues" .... I also believe I read somewhere that according to "Official" government surveys that 91% of the younger population had tried "MaryJane" at that time ....


When you are on a fast reach on a P19 as the bows carve through the water, let the bows drive down until you have 4-6" of freeboard ... the spray coming off the leeward hull will make a rainbow in the spray if the sun's angle is just right .....

Of course those big square hulls of the I/N20 skip over the water ..... splash, splash, splash ... no rainbows ... boo hoo, boo hoo ......

Hey, maybe you can buy your ol' P19 back CHEAP

Harry

hey Harry,
Try looking for the next puff instead of tripping out on bow spray.
I wouldn't mind having a P-19 again to fool around with, but I'm up to my eyeballs in boatwork as it is, no time for anymore.
Tawd

Harry,

Thanks for all the great info. I crewed on my brother-in-law's P19 in the early 90's all over northern California, including a few races in San Francisco Bay. I also owned and raced a TheMightyHobie18 and H16 before that. Although my time at the helm of P19 is limited, I remember now the sensation you have described. Scary at that speed! I want home and checked the front crossbar and all appears fine. I don't think this boat ws ssailed too hard. The bottoms look great for the age as well as other items. Teh bows also look and feel straight ahead of the crossbar. I couldn't find the post about the crossbar reinforcement after looking through your past posts and searching, but I am new here and may not be searching it correctly.

Also, as you can see form early in this thread, my boat is also a '86 as indicated by the last two numbers in the hull number like yours. I have been told the last two numbers in all hull numbers (powerboats and sail) indicate the year built. Yet your sail numberis 86. My bother-in-law's was an 85 and his sail number was 71. Who knows?

Please send my a clue on how to find the post on reinforcing the crossbar and I could really use the tuning guide with mast rake, rudder rake and diamond wire numbers.

Thanks,

Derrick

Nacra F18 #856 Where's my matching Lear Jet? It was not delivered with my F18. (I could use it this weekend at the Statue of Liberty Race; it is the only way we will ever go fast enough to win!

ere 'tis from another thread. Unless you go with the mx rig then it's different.
Todd

Who made your jib?

Performance. Why do you ask?

I didn't see the patch and it's not fully battened, so I assumed it wasn't a Vink sail. I was just curious.

Todd,

If you meant to send me a link to the info requested earlier, it is not showing up. I am running the original rig, no MX ...yet.

Derrick

Tuning guide

Great info Bob and thanks.

I think there is also a guide to set info like mast, rudder, and spreader rake, shroud hole location and diamond wire tension. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Derrick

I will copy the e-mail Skip Elliot sent me when I asked for this info. But it relates to the MX sailplan.

In Rick's book there is a whole chapter on the original sail plan by Randy Smyth. I think he said he put the rake at 8" in front of the rear beam using the trapeze wire to measure. Then the rudder rake is set to provide desired weather helm.

As I said before I sailed it for years with original equipment using only the guidance in the owner's manual which is still available on the performance cat web site. With all due respect to Mr. Murphey, I would buy a different boat if it were necessary to do all he has done with his. I have been too lazy to reinforce my main beam or my rudders.

Hi Robert,

The way I set up The Prindle 19 mainsail with the mast.
Start by setting the spreader back behind the mast 2"
This is with a straight edge set from wire to wire and measuring the distance to the mast groove.
The next is to set the tension on the wire so the mast has a perbend of 1" measure at the spreader with the mast set side way so the line from the top of the mast to the gooseneck will sag only to the ground and not to the mast. The line need to be tie to the groove at the top and bottom.

This is where I would start and from. If you are sailing light and need to flatting the sail start first by putting on more tension or the wire. so that you have more prebend

Now if you are sailing with more weight you may take out some prebend with looser wire tension. or you could take out some spreader down to 1.5"
When it come to the spreader rake be carefully of putting in too much in
This will make the mast bend too much in the middle and make the upper part fall off and the boat will not point up wind very well. This will start start to happen when you get past 3"

Keep a record of what you set the mast too and only change on think at a time. In this way you will know if the change was good or not and will be able to go back and try another setting.


Good sailing.

Skip

Hi Derrick,

The fixes/improvements I done haven't cost much in $$$$s but have just taken a little thought and some time. It gives me something to do after dinner in the evenings, also I was using the P19(MX) for doing point-to-point distance races here on the Chesapeake Bay .... no safety boats ... rough conditions sometime ... so when something important broke I fixed it and tried to strengthen/improve it. I had heard of previously of front crossbars failures on NACRA's and some Prindles ... when mine failed after I had up-graded to a MX rig and 25sqM spin I thought ... you've increased the loading from increasing the sailplan ... what did you do to increase the strenght of the platform itself to handle the increased loads???? Hence the reinforcing of the front crossbar and actually it was easy to do requiring the old broken crossbar for material, a Bosch Jigsaw, a 13lb sledgehammer, couple blocks of wood and a solid backstop (concrete curb).

And I did most of these, one improvement at a time ... over the years as I fixed what broke.

As for the rudder blades my first "elipitical" set split in approximently 40hrs of sailing ... the replacement set (of the replacement set) followed suit after the same amount of sailing. So I wasn't going to buy a third set and I couldn't locate a set of P18 Blades .... into the garage after dinner I went ... again not much $$$$, just some 3/8" dowel stock, a 3/8" drill bit, a little Epoxy&cloth, sandpaper and elbow greese(cold beer?).

I'll try and locate that thread where I reviewed how I strengthened the front crossbar.

Enjoy the process of rebuilding your P19 .... it makes sailing her all that much sweeter .....

HarryMurphey
TheMightyHobie18(Mag)/P19MX

Oh, I forgot or am I mixing threads ... the mast rake for my origonal Smythe "pinhead" sailplan was 12-14" in FRONT of the rear crossbar .... Smythes MX Sailplan; 12" behind the transom.

Harry