Juana's Good Time Regatta - Sept 12,13

70+ boats registered as of last night!

thats awesome. We were ready to roll as of Friday morning but came down with the flu (hoping not swine). Damn Damn damn, wish we were there.

I was having a blast until i converted my spin pole into 3 pieces. It took over an hour to get assistance. Carnage for others include a daggerboard snapped in half and a TheMightyHobie18 snapped off his starboard hull at the beam while approaching the finish line. There were several other incidents.

Here is the funny part, I was standing with Kirk just before we started the race and he called the shop and told the staff to stay open late and open in the morning early. . . ."We're going to be selling alot of parts"

Any more news?

More details - The 70 boats is a record at this Regatta. Triangles start at 11ish today. The wind appears to calmer today(Too bad,I was the one that broke a board yesterday).

where are the pics from the regatta? I thought they were on beachcats but couldn't find them

Sounds like y'all had more wind than we did :P

not so much on the second day. would have been nice to take the average for both days. I figure high teens with puffs into the low/mid 20s on sat. 5-7kn on sunday maybe
that I20 thingie is crazy stable... rides like a cadillac, handles like a BMW
but is a raging BEEEATCH to move around on the beach.

Juana's was an official amazing success. What a blast. My 4th day on a Nacra 20, what an amazing boat and what a great race to be my first. Lets have 100 boats next year.

This coming from the owners of an HT18 and F16 . . . welcome to the dark side gentlemen.

Joe (Captn Cardiac) and I had a chance to sail together on Friday on the yellow N20 and had a great time. We were HEAVY and the boat felt great. Things are looking up for N20 class. There have been 5-6 boats in the area added to the fleet. Yeah.

I lost my crew so had to round one up on Friday night for the distance race. During the race she asked me if I always pick up girls from the bar to sail with. I had to correct her that she was not picked up in a bar, but picked up off the volleyball court. There is a difference. Volleyball players meet a higher standard for crew. :P

The Navarrepress has pictures posted here.
More pictures here.
There was another event photographer taking excellent photos, especially on Saturday, but I don't know how to reach him or the photos. I sure would like to see them. Anybody know who he was?

You guys looked a lot more at ease than I was. I don't think there will be much uni distance racing in my future. Too much work!!

They shot some really nice video. It should be up, eventually.
http://www.juanaspagodas.com/RegattaNews.htm

Pete,
I was anything but at ease. When you and I were beating back Saturday, the wind and the waves had built significantly. Those were very TOUGH conditions for me or anybody. Don't beat yourself up. You did very well. NOAA had issued a squall warning for the storm we were sailing in, which means minimum top wind speed 25 mph+ with gusts reported from the NOAA alert at 35 knots. The warning was issued about the time I was finishing jury rigging my boat back from the spin pole failure (131 channel marker) and got really bad about 5 miles east of the marker. Those are tough conditions for anybody. PS. I recommend that you always wear your VHF/weather radio for distance races and don't tell your new crew it was bad until you hit the beach!

More photos from the Sunday races here.

Can someone post a link to some results? Pictures are great though.

More Picks at this site as well:

http://www.jacoulterphoto.com/store/events

Was Mark Smith using his class sails or his aftermarket sails?

After market, note the patch on the main.

No EP patch

Aftermarket for Mark. Race results were NOT posted after the race, the RC was somewhat involved the the spirits of a "Goodtime". Only 2 races on Sunday.

Sundays race Mark took a bullet in the first race. Saturday he was 5th to finish but scored second after the lead 3 boat were dnf for missing a mark.

The aluminum rig was not raced at Juana's but was raced two weeks ago at BigMouth and Mayors Cup.

Any idea where, or if, the video will be posted?

For the record:

Next year the scoring will be done by an authorized employee of Juana's. Her summary with class results is copied below.

To the whiners about the distance course, all I can say is that will be the prescribed course for next year if I am RC because I like it.

I am proposing that Juana consider establishing the following perpetuals - Distance Traveled, Co - Ed, Tucker Youth Trophy, and a Master Trophy for competitors 65 years and older.

How say Ye? At least the RC did not wave a rule book around even thought the competitors strictly required that the RC wave a rule book at itself. Now,that's strategy - gather a posse of top shooters and trail down the RC - too bad we got away:-) Here's Mandy's take. Please be advised Shane Gaston informed me there was an error in the H 16 Class: however, I understand that has been resolved - this scoring report does not feature the change in results.

----- Thanks so much for coming out to the Regatta last weekend. We had a record turn out this year with 70 boats registered and 5 windsurfers. Below is a list of award winners, committee/safety boat members, and sponsors.


AWARDS

Windsurf
1. Bert Rice
2. Jim Leonard
3. Steve Bogan

H-16 (has been revised)
1. Carl Renelt and Bridget Precise
2. John Bizzeil and Jackie Robbins
3. Jerome and Jane Vaughn

Formula 16
1. Chris Amador and Rene Humphries
2. Andy Humphries and Austin Evans
3. Mike Bordon

Nacra 20
1. Kirk Newkirk and Glenn Holmes
2. Mark Smith and Michael Rice
3. John MacDonald and Tony Thomas

H-18
1. Damon Linkous
2. Paul Price and Crew
3. Glenn Bolner and Terry Turner

Open A
1. Randy Smyth (A-Cat)
2. Mark Ederer and Danny Roberts (18 H-T)
3. Kenny Boudreau and Ricky Klein (F-18)

Open B
1. Kris Ridgeway and Michelle Sutherland (H-Getaway)
2. Duly Charltain and Ross Roundtree (P-18)
3. Ray Breneman and Crew

Cruisers
1. Auk Tui (Mike Pedersen, Jason Knoll, and Crew)
2. Perigee (Doug Craig, Deb Haywood, and Crew)
3. Tristan (Tom and Diane Pelczynski and Crew)

Best overall co-ed
Chris Armador and Renee Humphries

Carlton Tucker Award
Glenn, Gregg, Mark, and Mike Tepe



Best Breasts Award

Kris Ridgeway and Michelle Sutherland

Thank you to safety boats, photographers, and videographers (John Hays, Jim Schafer, Jeff Harris, Donna Harris, Karl Marusak, Ron Wilson, and Ben Wilson)

Thank you to race committee (Bert Rice, Mark Smith, Tommy Garner, Jim Leonard & Leslie, Kevin Rejda, Adrian Solomon, Leigh Knox, Kevin O'Leary, Christi O'Leary, and Cindy McBride)

Thank you to sponsors (AAA insurance agency, Euro-Tan, Navarre Press, All American Heroes, Gulf Properties, Re/Max Total Properties, Baird Chiropractic Center, Republic National Distributing, Best Western, Run With It, Cactus Flower Cafe, Island Style, Express Pharmacy Navarre, Century 21 Island View Realty, Navarre Beach Flower Boutique, The UPS store, Days Inn and Suites, Navarre Family Dentistry, Version Wireless agent Dave Mobley.)

Let me know if you need any more information.

Thanks,

Mandy

I had a hard time with the distance race, but that's okay. Challenge is good. Special thanks to "Sea Flea" for hangin' around.

Great party, thanks to all! See you next year!

Best Breasts Award

Kris Ridgeway and Michelle Sutherland



Someone want to explain the critera for this obviously prestigious award? I'd like to enter my man-boobs...

how does the saying go? "pics or it didn't happen"?

NO PIX FOR YOU! You have to drive the 11 hours and see for yourself.

Have a quick question, if Kirk DNF'd on Saturday's distance race, how did he take over all winner for the NACRA 20 class?

The winds and voices of fate ruled that the race on Saturday for the NACRA 20 Class would not be counted toward final scoring. We will try and have mark boats doing roundings in the future. Nuff said!
RRS. 28.1 applies.

Pardon my interest in this, but I am the race committee chairman for my club and curious about your methodology. Are saying that under RRS 28.1 you threw out an entire race for a specific class because THE race committee decided the wind wasn't right and a few racers complained; therefore voiding the printed sailing instructions?

If so, how does 28.1 apply?

And, why not through out the other classes that raced the same course?

The leader in the race missed the skippers' meeting and failed to navigate the course as described in the SIs and course diagram which included marks of the course, distance, and bearing. The rest of the black sheep except for a couple boats followed in blind faith and then scapegoated the RC for "complicating" the course. I decided to deep - six the race for the N 20s. They need to buff out their navigational skills on catamarans:-)

This was the only Class that made an issue of the course. A heavy rainstorm did play a role. I was running the windsurfer course when the first N 20s arrived at the finish, and I reported to my RC assistants that those boats missed a mark. They did!

you deep-sixed the entire class for that entire distance race? Because the person who didn't round the correct mark didn't attend the skipper's meeting? I hope you aren't serious... and the excuse of the sailors that you "complicated" the course? Yes, I thought it was kind of goofy too but if that was what was said at the skippers meeting then why are you punishing those that actually paid attention? I suddenly realized that I wasn't paying attention at the end of the race and wondered if we had ran the correct course but my skipper knew where we were and was paying attention. If we had missed the mark and took an DNF or whatever, then that would have been fine... because those were the RULES. I guess you get enough people to go against the rules then you can throw them out after the fact.
I love this regatta and I know it is very informal, but that is pretty bad if it is true.

by the way... if I don't go to the skippers meeting at Nationals next month and decide to say "I didn't know there was a windward mark, so i didn't go to it" does this then allow me to hit the reset button?

Again, please don’t take this the wrong way, just trying to understand the methodology.

So let me review the facts; the leader of the race missed the skippers meeting and this is an excuse for not knowing the course and other racers followed him therefore missing the mark and complaining that the race course was bad? Few questions, what if the leader decided to quit the race because of……. and the other followed him? Would you have still DQ’d the others? Were the instructions posted anywhere? I mean as a race committee chairperson this is something I always do as well make sure each racer has a copy in their race entry packet. And for the others outside of the leader, were the instructions articulated at the skippers meeting and if so were there any questions from the group that needed clarification? Certainly you will agree there is really no excuse for NOT KNOWING THE COURSE.

As for the other “blind faith followers” what the heck, that is racing, and they should have sailed their own race, or did they miss the meeting too? If I may, and again please don’t take this as an insult, I would have asked each of the racer about the course they sailed and disqualified them or scored then as a DNF, but to disqualify an entire race? In all my years of racing; first this has never happened - that is a race committee DQing an entire race, and with the exception of one event that I will get into later, many of the sailors I have raced with are honest and will be the first to admit they didn’t sail the course as noted in the initial sailing instruction or violate the RRS, unless of course they are a cheater or are in collusion with a cheater which has been known to happen.



There are not many cat sailors I know that would think of doing a distance race without some sort of GPS navigation, unless of the race rules specified other. I think if you polled this group you will find my statement pretty close to the mark or in this case the missed one!!!! Did you have the “lats and longs” in the instructions and if so why did you do this?



So if I am reading this right, in place of pulling the skippers from the NACRA 20 class together that afternoon or evening, explaining the situation that you were confronted with, presenting a few remedies, and letting THEM decide THEIR fate, you the race committee decided to pull the plug and penalize the few entrants that played by the rules and sail a good race. Dude!!!!!!!

I had mentioned earlier we had an issue like this a while back. Very similar, a few racers didn’t round a mark that were part of the initial printed race instructions and when we all got back to the beach and addressed the committee for a protest it sort of fell of deaf ears, that is the race committee/promoter was looking to favor a few specific entrants at the expense of the others and decided to change the rules at that time. Oh! That race died a quick death as many of us decide not to enter it the next year.

Again, please don’t take this the wrong way as I am looking at this from afar, but is sounds to me like decisions were made to penalize those that did the right thing and favor those that didn’t, or your dealing with some cheaters and a race committee failed to take this into consideration.

And for laughs and grins, why not post the result of all the NACRA 20 class races that is both Saturdays and Sundays finishes. Like I said, for laughs and grins!!!!

I was one of the N20's that made the mark on saturday. It was a great race and I don't feel that the mark had any real effect on the outcome of the race. i could have been a lot more competitive and opinionated if i didn't spend ~8 minutes dealing with a capsize and a broken centerboard. ( i had a GPS to help tally the wasted time ) the extra mark was a little unusual since it was essentially enroute to the turning route. i suppose rulz is rulz and the RC has their reasons but the outcome would have been the same had everyone hit the mark. However, I think i may tuck this lesson away and next time i miss the skippers meeting and i don't go to the windward mark i'm going to raise some hell if they try and DSQ me!!!! Its all good. Its call Juana Good Time Regatta for a reason... see you all next year...


cc

What johnes said!

Half assed race management does not help our niche of the sport.

This certainly doesn't encourage beginners to get into racing when the top sailors are allowed to bully the RC into changing the rules after the fact.

I had a GREAT TIME!


P.S. I'd like redress in R2 Sunday as I scored a DNF because I tried to go around an extra time. When I got to the bottom mark and the chase boats were lifting it I said "Hey, did you change the course? You're not flying a flag or anything. They shrugged and then I thought ... they cancelled the race early ... only to find out it was ME that was confused.

BTW, the SI CLEARLY stated all races would be twice around up wind finish (which I had read and heard at the skippers meeting)

BBTW, I only wish I'd been leading the race so that I could have had my fleet follow me around too

. . . Depends on who's RC.

BTW, I do recall the leader at the skipper's meeting! You've got to do better than that. Nice pink hat!
Oh my!

According to RRS
"SCORES DETERMINED BY THE RACE COMMITTEE
A boat that did not start, comply with rule 30.2 or 30.3, or finish, or
that takes a penalty under rule 44.3(a) or retires after finishing, shall
be scored accordingly by the race committee without a hearing. Only
the protest committee may take other scoring actions that worsen a
boat’s score."
Where finish is described as:
"A boat finishes when any part of her hull, or crew or equipment
in normal position, crosses the finishing line in the direction of
the course from the last mark after completing any penalties."

So, a race committee is obligated to record a boats finish. They are not allowed to judge whether or not a boat has successfully sailed a course, that is for the protest committee. It is not appropriate for the RC to hand out DSQ's or DNF's to boats that did indeed finish.


Who was and who was not at the skippers meeting should have no bearing on the decision. There should be no information disseminated at the meeting that is either not in the SI's or posted as a notice to competitors. Attending the meeting is not a requirement for successfully navigating a race.

I seem to remember some unhappiness with this same RC at last year's Juana's.

You all need also to write DIRECTLY to Juana and let her know your thoughts.

This was not a good decision. The only way to deal with this is:

- The faulty boats should all retire.
- If not, a non faulty boat should have protested during the time limit.

If none of this happen the results stand. If you're not happy you should have protested. But throwing the results away is not a possible solution in any circumstances.

The same situation happened during an event at our club. The SI and the board displayed at the back of the committee boat called for 4 laps. The leader stopped at 3 laps, finishing in the middle of the F18 who started 10 minutes in front of us. Everyone followed but me and another boat. So most of the fleet sailed the wrong course.

As nobody retired (And they should have. They all knew: I told them) the RC rightly assumed that everything was fine and was ready to publish the results as is. The two of us who sailed the right course had to protest every other boat in the fleet to gain some attention. Being reasonable and not willing to DSQ everyone we proposed to the committee to drop the protests as long as we got redress for the 1 and 2 place, the rest of the fleet scoring after us.

The offer was accepted and the end result was nicer than simply DSQ 15 odd boats. Everyone was happy with the outcome, considering.

What's the scoring penalty/handicap for that?

This race seems kinda like a backyard streetfight. Rules we don't need no stinkin' rules. Interesting approach.

This is the hit for the main assuming it's the same area, if the main is bigger, then there is an additional hit:

MN For non-class legal mainsail, of same sail area or less than class legal mainsail (formerly square top adjustment) 0.995 0.990 0.990 0.995 0.995

There is no hit for after market jib or spin.

We've done this before Mr. Leghorn.

I've got to say something cause this has gotten a little crazy.

This regatta and a few others on the coast of Florida-Mississipp is very laid back. So, not too many people say anything about stuff like this. HOWEVER, most of these regattas, there is a question on the entry form of what RATING you should be at, and if you answer truthfully, good for you, if not, then oh well.

So, lets race and have fun!

Generally, the fast people come out on top no matter what.



Yes, some of these people do care, but most of them don't. And these regattas on the coast have done pretty well over the last couple of years despite a clubhouse getting completely destroyed in a hurricane and other things.

Ding,
Then your in a portsmouth race and not one design, right? If you have a one design fleet and one sailor breaks rank, do you put him in the open class or score him with the one design w/ the penalty?
The last time I remember going over any of this "before" was back when I had my MX.
These aren't rhetorical questions, I'm curious. It also has nothing to do with this regatta, if y'all want to let people cheat at your regattas ,than propagate on, none of my biz,until I come to one, which prolly ain't gonna happen.
I can't believe Mark Schneider's not on this thread.
Todd

Apparently in EMSA, there's a desire to move away from scoring OD fleets 1,2,3 and just score the top place in each fleet and instead go 3 deep in the open handicap class.

I can't tell you how much I don't agree with this, but whatever....

That's the way I see it.



Depends. If the fleet in question unanimously decides they are okay with it then I would have no issue (why would I). But, if there is one no vote then off they go to open with the modifier attached, assuming I'm the OA.



It was a while ago and it was when Mark first got his sails. You may have missed the thread.

Mark sails stock for OD events and the Area qualifier, he can't sail with his new sails for the area qualifier because it would require a modifier and modifiers are not allowed at the area qualifiers.

For the record there is no wiggle room in SMOD, either you is or you aint.

I apologize for the hijack.

Ding
Agreed on all points!

I'm down with that... second place just means you're the first loser :-)

I think that's crap. Why? Save money on trophies? What's the point of trying to get together enough starts for one design class start.
Tad ,you should probably start a new thread about this and un double hijack this one.

Todd.... I did weigh in... IMO... this kind of crap is not good for the sport. The old as dirt gripe about cat sailors was that they don't know the rules of the game.

Well... this thread is evidence for that charge.

The gulf coast sailors seem pretty clear that they don't like the hassle factor of all these rules. Ah well.

I bitch about clubs which half butt the organization of their event... (Why waste a sailor's time)... It would seem that the gulf sailors are happy with a level below half assed and are much happier with the motto. "Rules...we don't need no stinking rules."

Like you... the events don't get put on my I would like to do this event one day list.

Fortunately, some cat sailors are working very hard to raise the bar and be included in the Gulf Yachting Association. I wish them the best of luck.

Plus One.

. . . until they are maliciously leveraged for a tactical advantage . . .

This is a great regatta at one of the best locations in a 500 mile radius (my opinion and any pictures will show it). It has traditionally been a small regatta with a focus on fun. The last few years has seen the attendance grow (70+ boats this year). You cannot manage a large regatta with "fun" rules. Boats are going to be on top of each other all the time. Accomodating 70+ boats and varied racer expectations is going to require more race management personnel.

Mark has been sailing with those sails in one design I20 fleets for at least a year (not every regatta, but some of them), the local I20 sailors should call him on it if they disagree (I personally have not seen an advantage and that may be why they do not call him on it). If they dont care, then let him sail. All it takes is one sailor to kick him to Open Portsmouth (and I bet Mark pulls out a EP I20 sail - dont bitch about the lack of sail development and then crucify Mark for trying something new).

The other complaints are not enforcing the closed start/finish gate and the throw out of the first race for the I20s. This can and should be addressed. It is expensive to travel to a regatta, pay for accomodations, pay for food/beer and any potential boat break downs due to weather (which were plentiful this year). Most people have a limited amount of discretionary spending, it is important to remember that each racer deserves fair conditions and has equal expectations.

I like all the Panhandle guys and they should not be villified. My opinion is that this regatta has outgrown it's orignal intent and the organizers need to decide if it is a "real" race or not. Any issues from this year's race can be fixed.

It should be noted that I was not at this year's regatta, but I've spoken to many racers and none of them were "satisfied".

I will always support Juana's and hope to be there next year. I love the area and the "Good Time". I hope this race not only survives, but continues to prosper.

Juana's is a GOOD TIME. It needs to stay that way. it is an excellent chance for people that are tentative of racing to give it a go. The number of boats needs to be managed well but if Juana loses the Good Time relaxed, no stress aspect of this event it will die out. Its a lot like a sand lot football game with your friends. There can be some disagreements but it needs to end with a friendly 'beer'. The focus needs to be on the inexperienced racer and the serious racing can take a back seat and can take place at every other event. At Juanas, the Beer flows freely, the door prizes are easy, the food is plenty and the camaraderie is everywhere. Enjoy the fun and come back again! next week is the 'tune up' for the Nacra NA's save all the Bi#$%ing for this event and the 4 days of the NA's. No one will remember the 'controversy' of Juana's in a couple of weeks and i hope we get 100 boats in Navarre Beach next year! Cheers

I agree whole heartedly to keep it a fun event and think it is an event to [plan for.

BUT I would spend $100+ in gas, $175+ in lodging, $100 in outside food/beer and $50 in registration (at least).

That's $400+. Should I expect fair racing or should I skip the event?

It is a hell of a lot easier to live there an push your boat off the beach (total investment of $50). I am a HUGE fan of this regatta, but it MAY get a reputation of not worth the effort.

Again, Capt_Cardiac - I don't wnat you to think I am angry/hold a bad feeling....

I think the FL Panhandle is one of the best places in the world to sail and I LOVE the fact the you share it with us. It is quite a bit of work to put on a regatta and any effort is MUCHLY appreciated.

I'll be back as much as I can afford.

I spent more than that and thought it was well worth it. The distance one day/bouys the next is a lot of fun. See you next year.

Just to clarify. Having a set of sails built on your own accord ,with no input and trying to use them to get an edge, with no benefit to the rest of the class is not sail development. Don't try to polish a turd.
Personally I'm for sail development in that class, just not like that.
Todd

Todd, you know what's going on with Mark's sails how? Do you know who cut them and why the particular shape was chosen? And you've discussed Mark's motivations when?

Yep, John, Your right. I don't know Mark or his intentions. If all his rivals said it was OK then so be it( I didn't see where that happened). I raced portsmouth for years and prefer not to on my N-20. If he IS doing R&D I'd sure like to know about it and help it along.

I think he'd tell you that the main has more "umph," but the little squaretop on the jib doesn't seem to do much. I'm sure he'll be glad to talk with you more about the ideas that led to them. The loft he got them from has some interesting ideas and a good track record with Panhandle multihulls.

Gents,

I designed and help build Mark's Inter 20 sails. Performance Catamarans came out with some fat head sails and larger jib for testing so Mark isn't the only one. We made the sails at Schurr Sails out of curiosity to see if overall performance would be improved or if the boat would just be too overpowered. Looking to current sailboard designs, we felt pretty confident the head could be blown off through downhall and we would greatly improve downwind vmg. The squaretop on the jib was a stab at minimizing a choked slot where the jib comes into the mast. I have seen others try it in trimarans since we built Mark's sails.
Big picture- Mark isn't trying to cheat or overthrow any powerhouses. He's a big boy and just wanted some sails with juice and was willing to throw down to try it out.
He takes the rating hit and doesn't complain. Anybody who has a problem with it really needs to get a life.

Any questions, feel free to e-mail me at bertrice05@yahoo.com or call at 850-221-8471.

Cheers,
Bert Rice Jr.

It's clear to me that what we need at this regatta is a Catsailor Open Forum inspector to ensure accountability and transparency. This person must be knowledgable of the rules, unbiased toward any competitors/boat brands, and...most of all.....throughout the entire event weekend....sober.

NOT IT!

Either that or Juana's version of justice in the sand. I nominate the H16 fleet as jury! Let them be the sole arbitors of whether a good time was had.

NOT IT 2!