Alter Cup Updates from water

P Mumm is calling me to relay information from one of the mark boats. He just ringed me and said that they're a go - and that they're leaving now to go setup the marks. He said that it will take "a while" for the teams to sail from the Sailing Center to the Gulf.

Good deal! Will you be on SA as well?

Sure.

Maybe you can use a twitter account for updates?
That would be great.

Can't put enough information in a twitter post.

I'm not on the course, I'm sitting here in my home office.

Taylor Palmer flipped on the way out to the course. They're collecting themselves.

I basically told Philip that - since the names and numbers of the boats are going to change with each fleet changeup - just to get me the names of the top 5 finishers of every race AT THE VERY LEAST.

More information of course, would be more than welcome.

Wish I could promise more - but again, not being there...

Put that stuff over here. Please!

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=193289&gonew=1#UNREAD

About to start... Wind has backed down to 10.5 knots

BUT Waves 4 to 5 feet height - tight sets. Gets worse away from shore. Wind blowing 075 at A mark, 035 at committee so big shift on course.

1st start clean.

You can follow realtime weather from the station on the end of Pier 60 in Clearwater, the only local station on the Gulf side. It's less than a mile from the course (depending on where they set the marks). Some sensors may be damaged after yesterday's big blow. Look at that water temp drop!

Clearwater Pier weather station

Race 1 finish:
JC
boat 4 second
Jake Kohl

first three had a good lead
Batchelor
boat 2 "Teabagged" at the finish
boat 9 Newsome
Boat 6
Boat 1 Miami kids

One more boat Waaay out.

We'll try to clarify the competitors after the fact.

Livingston was the second place

Wind has died again to 7.5 to 8 knots and the waves are calming down too. Boats are on the beach swapping boats.

Philip has switched from the A mark boat to the safety boat so we might get some more info,

Correction, Third boat was Tripp Burd

Jake is in the next fleet... which are about to start.

2nd windward mark
Tomko
Newberry (strong second Philip noted)

Finish Order 2nd Race

Newberry (Philip is really impressed with them - "Perfect in all aspects of their game, from what I could see they were flawless")
Tortellino/HOlmes
Tomko
Pitt (malfunctioning downhaul reported)

Report saying that the wind is lightening up some more.

total finish order:
Newberry
Tartaglino
Tomko
Pitt
Kohl
Langefeld
Cope
Humphries
Carlson
Raybon

Course is .8 mile. Looks like the Silver fleet is heading out first. Wind at 040 direction.

at 2:30 - avg wind 9.0 NNE/20° gust to 13.0

55 degree wind shift to the left in the middle of the race.

Finishes for this race:
Marshack
Cope
Newsome
Witte
Dingo
Roots
Humphries
Langefeld
Carlson
Raybon


Gold fleet starting soon - just received the boat numbers/skippers info.

That'll certainly make you pull your hair out...

Mike

14 knots and building. Gold starting soon.

I've gotta run to the gym for an hour... sorry!

I think it was just the sea-breeze rolling in late

currently reading (avg) 17.0 N/0° (gusting to) 20.0

Finish last race
------------
JC (Big lead)
Burd
Jason
Tomko
Livingston
Tartaglino
Batchelor
Pitt
Newberry
Kohl

Pictures going up but is is slow with a cellular connection . . .Stand by . . .

great job with the reporting,.. thanks guys

.8 mile course, 065 wind direction, A mark about 4/10ths of a mile from the jetty, right on the channel line apparently.
two boats recalled at the start - only one cleared.
Burd/Easton retired from race - headed to beach. Reason unknown.
_________________________

I quickly put together a rough google earth sketch of the course layout from Philip's description just so viewers at home can get a feel for the terrain. You can also see the sail required to get out to the Gulf from the beach.

are they all rafting up at that bar before the bridge to switch from A to B fleets? That would be convenient.

Finish Order race 3A:
JC
Batchelor
Newsome
Marshack
Spina
Jason
Tartaglino
Tomko
Cope
Burd DNF

I think the boat exchange is on the Gulf beach at Sand Key Park.

Wind on course 10.5 to 12 knots.
A mark direction is 065, at committee its 090.

i had heard the Sheridan Hotel at Sand Key was allowing them some beach access... this is not verified but the source was pretty good.

Last time the event was there we used the Sherton Beach for change overs, but sailed the boats back to the Clearwater Sailing Center each evening.

A couple of times at or slightly after dusk!!!

Finishes:
-----
Tomko
Tartaglino
Root
Langefeld
Humphries
Kohl
Cope
Newberry
Witte
Carlson

Gold fleet on the way out, wind building 12.5 to 14.

Bonnie waves a big foam finger in the air for Jake and Tom then retires to the bleachers.

Thanks for all the updates!

About to start next race. Wind at A mark oscillating between 050 and 065. Wind at committee holding at 090.

Apparently Tomko put a real hurt on the fleet after he got pushed to Silver.

Race 4A:

two boats over. Batchelor went over going around offset.
Raybon took a DSQ for outside assistance. Burd is seeking redress.

Finishes:
JC
Burd
Spina
Jason
Newsome
Marshack
Pitt
Ingram
Batchelor
Raybon


Philip says "there's probably going to be a bit of turnover time on this changeout"

Wind 9knots at 100 at the A mark. Silver fleet about to start.

Philip said he just saw a Hammerhead.

Finish for 4B:
Newberry
Cope
Humphries
Ingram
Langefeld
Raybon
Kohl
Carlson
Witte DNF - did not go through leward gate apparently.

Technically, RC can't score a boat DNF for a mark rounding error. If the boat acknowledges the error and withdraws voluntarily, she should be scored RAF. Otherwise, someone must protest. If Protest Committee determines that the boat broke rule 28, they will disqualify her and direct RC to score her DSQ.

Of course, the score is the same, so if nobody contests RC's action, the end result doesn't change.

Regards,
Eric

I just went down to the course. perfect conditions. 81* great wind (around 10-12) no chance of rain...

you can see the action very well from the hotel... but no one at the pool could care less. there was a sign at the state park but i didn't go in to see if there were "spectators". the course is a little more south than the picture above depicts (well clear of the sand key pass) and i could see the race from many different locations as i drove through Clearwater beach.

Tomorrow i will go again but bring my iphone to snap some pics (or my real camera if i remember it)

...that is correct Eric. That's a huge pet peeve of mine too.

Of course, there's almost zero chance that anyone would get redress for this, since it doesn't meet the RRS 62.1 requirement of "no fault of her own."

Of course, some people have nothing better to do with their time, and different juries have been known to act differently at times...

Mike

The Alter Cup does have provisions for protest hearings to be heard on the dock between races. This is necessary because of the way the fleet is divided and seeded after each race. It is possible the hearing was held on the dock between races and only reported as a DNF for the purposes of these updates. It is also possible the competitor did not finish after realizing the error.

Gold fleet results:
Spina
Burd
JC
Marshack
Pitt
Tomko
Roots
Tartaglino
Jason
Newsome

First race JC didn't win!
Sorry for the delay .. was at the gym.

There is a possible scenario for a DNF: the crew notice their own mistake, stop racing and cruise to the next start never passing the finish line. I've done that before...

I didn't mean to hijack this thread, so let's move the rules discussion to http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=194029 which pgp started to discuss this topic.

Regards,
Eric

Most likely what he saw was a Shovel Head shark.....but, Hammerheads are out there.

I know the difference. Hammerhead, nuff said. As for some of the posts I have just read regarding wind speed and direction, the data I'm providing is real time, from multiple calibrated instruments, ON THE COURSE, so please, refrain from youe interweb prognog. It doesn't get anymore accurate than this. As for the waves, JC just sailed around the 4-5 footers, and only found the 2-3 footers. He's that good.

Very nice banquet last night, which addressed the future of the Alter Cup, Olympic multihulls, etc. That deserves it own thread.

Thanks Tad!

"Very nice banquet last night, which addressed the future of the Alter Cup, Olympic multihulls, etc. That deserves it own thread."

Let's see it! I'm sure lots of folks are interested in that.

You're all welcome. I have to atone for the multiple transgressions that I've perpetrated on the catamaran community. Consider this my penance

Nice little article on SA about the Alter Cup, with credits - JC At The Alter
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/index_page1.php

Just got the boat/team matchup from Philip. He's on the beach taking some pics that he's gonna email to me shortly.

They're expecting some higher winds and flatter water today so they dialed up all the diamond wires from 33 to 35 on the loos gauge.

Sounds like they're getting off a little later than scheduled. As soon as I get wind/water conditions I'll post em.

what were your "transgressions"....

To many to name, and to egregious to pass my errr lips?...

Wouter is getting nicer, now you as well.
What Is This World Coming To?

Wind 075, course 6G, upwind finish, 8 knots, first race underway.

Ingram first to A mark.

Finish:
Tartaglino
Jason
Kohl
Ingram
Newsome
Humphries
Langefeld
Carlson
Witte
Raybon

Gold fleet heading out now. Wind has shifted to close to 090 Philip says.

"Nice smooth water"

Finishs Gold
Burd
JC
Tomko
Roots
Spina
Newberry
Batchelor
Marshack
Cope
Pitt


Burd/Easton stood the boat up going around the A mark first lap - "I mean the boat was vertical" but recovered and came back to win it.

Pictures or it didn't happen
These guys love pushing the boat! At HPDO they crashed hard at the finish while showboating for the photographer.

Are there any pictures up?

Unfortunately there don't seem to be any pictures online. It really stinks. Like I said, Phillip is going to try and send me some pics when he can.

Silver fleet back out there, wind has gone to 10.5. Course 6G.

Ingram retired from race "looks like a spin sheet or halyard issue"

Finish for Silvers:
Cope
Newsome
Pitt
Marshack
Carlson
Raybon
Langefeld
Humphries
Witte
Ingram -retired from race (God help me I'm not going to report him as DNF this time!)

I will do my best to get some pics up around 5

UPDATE: philip has over 300 pics from the event on beachcats.

http://www.thebeachcats.com/index.php?module=pictures&g2_itemId=67619

Punk has been holding out on me!

How is Emilee holding up for Nigel? I'm glad to see that Nigel is including his daughter, but I was really surprised to see her crewing in an event like this. I know my 13 year old daughter would not have the strength and stamina to handle a 5 day event, more less handle the spin. Is she able to hoist and douse the spin? I noticed one picture that it appeared that he was doing it. ....don't get me wrong.. I'm not casting stones. I'm glad to see more dad/kid teams and it makes it a lot more fun when I take one of my daughters to a regatta and there are other kids racing. I've been racing with my daughters for 4 years now, but only at certain events on the H16. Not sure my 9 or 13 year old could do more than just be rail meat on an F18.

Finish Gold:
Tomko
Roots
Batchelor
JC
Easton
Tartaglino
Newberry
Kohl
Jason
Spina

Lots of lead changes. Tomko had to cover Roots at the finish to win. Lots of holes all over the course Philip says. Wind is all over the place - its laid down quite a bit apparently and the boat that could find the wind won that race.

She seemed very active from the stills.

http://www.thebeachcats.com/index.php?module=pictures&g2_itemId=67619

Day 2,I think. Start about 7886

I talked with Nigel at Nationals and his daughter doesn't do much on the boat from my understanding, but she does have a good time according to him. He sailed with her a number of weeks ago on an F16 at the GYA regatta.
I have a few more years before my daughter can crew with me. The goal is not to scare the hell out of her before she is ready for it!

I went and took pictures.. unfortunately today's course is way off the beach and i couldn't get any good pics.. but here are some anyway...

Memorial Causeway (driving to Clearwater Beach)



The race (from Clearwater Beach at the Sand Key Pass)
if you look real close.. and squint.. you MIGHT see a mast or 2




From the Hotel on Sand Key

Finishes for Silver Fleet:
Spina
Marshack
Witte
Carlson
Humphries
Ingram
Kohl
Langefeld
Raybon
Jason * - retired

The standings are posted on the Alter Cup web page at USSAILING.

Link to US SAILING http://championships.ussailing.org/Adult/USMHChampionship.htm
check "standings" for current positions.

Sorry Tad. I had run into some issues with the uploads. I had to get the website owner to help out. When I left for racing this morning they were not ready. It's probably to late to call you right now so I will get with you in the morning. Working on todays pictures now.

The hundred dollar question is did I get a picture of "THE STUFF"? Well, I got the second half of it, shooting directly into the sun. I was busy shooting a sequence of JC/Williams rounding the offset (in first) when Jill hollered and I pulled up looking for the expected (2nd boat) and bam!

I think it's awesome that Nigel brought Emily along to crew the Alter Cup, much less in these conditions. If you're going to dive in then by all means dive in head first. She's probably a better crew than I am, I'm sure JC can vouch for that.

Philip posted some more pics. All photos credit Philip Mumm. Don't still his stuff. He'll get angry and put giant watermarks on his pics again if you do

More. Credit Philip Mumm.

fanstastic pics!

Here's a teaser . . . .

MORE! MORE!

"OK, you can ease the main now..."

Wind at 095 at 9 knots, smooth water. Gold fleet on the water.

Course 6G, Philip says they're going to get 3 races in today.

He obviously is over-steering.. .look at the angle on that rudder!

Just washing the spinny? I hope the pole didn't hit bottom!

order at 2nd Windward mark:
Burd
JC
Cope
Pitt
Roots
Tomko
Newberry
Tartaglino
Batchelor
Newsome

Burd with a ~2:30 lead.

2nd leward mark:
Burd
Cope
Pitt
Roots
Tomko
Newberry
Newsome
Tartaglino
Batchelor

JC broke spin pole, retired from race.

Report that the starboard spin pole bridle pulled out of the hull.. holing it. JC/Williams seeking redress even though, according to them they've "never seeked redress ever".

Everything changes in regards to redress when it comes to supplied boats!

Some drama went down in a redress yesterday.

Humphries was sailing in the Silver Fleet yesterday and was leading the fleet in the race when his mainsheet broke about 100 yards from the finish. They fashioned a repair on the water and finished in 4th place. They filed for redress and the committee gave them a finish averaging their previous results.

Well the competitors didn't quite like that determination so they forced the committee to reopen the redress and they instead awarded Humphries the 1st place finish for that race as they rightfully should have (according to the competitors involved).

So they'll be joining the Gold fleet next time they race.

Finish

Burd
Cope
Pitt
Roots
Tomko
Newsome
Batchelor
Newberry
Tartaglino
JC - under redress for broken pole

how/where did the mainsheet "break?"

Not quite sure. He said no less than three things when he relayed the story to me - from shackle to block to line.

So I donno with any certainty.

So here we have one of the drawbacks to relaying information. The spin bridle didn't put a hole in the hull... the bridles are run through a hole in the bows... the line just pulled out of the hole. No hull damage. The spin pole has already been replaced and boat is back on the water.

The new Viper I saw a couple weeks ago came with the Ronstan Orbit mainsheet system with dyneema link.
That would change the "shackle" story.

soft shackle

JC/Williams awarded a place of 2 for the redress.

Capsize right at the A mark. Righted then went back over again. Philip focused on someone "wearing something pink, and small" on the beach...

oh boat is half righted, hanging on by an edge...

was Tartaglino.

Silver fleet finish:
Jason
Batchelor
Raybon
Kohl
Newberry
Carlson
Langefeld
Witte
Ingram
Tartaglino

"Well the competitors didn't quite like that determination so they forced the committee to reopen the redress and they instead awarded Humphries the 1st place finish for that race as they rightfully should have (according to the competitors involved)."

Excellent, good to see sportsmanship is alive and well (although, I'm not really surprised with US cats). I only wish more classes would act this way. I'm going to use this story this weekend (kids regatta).

Mike

Wind building to 13.5 knots... last race of the event about to begin.

This leaves two points seperating 1st and 2nd place with two races to go if in fact they get 3 races in today.

They should have no problem getting in at least 3 races, the wind is blowing, east at 10-15 at my house (90 miles to the south east of there) and the sun is shining, it's been a very good week for wind.

I've been told that the race going on now is the last race of the event.

Thanks for all the updates, almost like being there! Any words on how the sailors like the Viper? I think only a few of them usually sail in the F16 class. I know JC and JW did the AC on the Blade a couple years ago, I guess some of the others did too. But how about the -big boat- sailors?

JC lost two positions - rounded A mark in 4th.

Burd/Easton broke a mast.

JC told me on the phone earlier that the Vipers handled the chop and waves nicely. Thats about all the feedback I've gotten to be honest.

That sucks - where were they? The winner here could be decided on redress.

Burd/Easton broke a mast.


How? Did they first flip and it got driven into the bottom while they were righting it? Or did a spreader let go or something like that?

Donno where they were. Philip just called me "BOAT 6 BROKE THEIR MAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*click*"

According to my spreadsheet, thats Burd/Easton.

Will post more info as soon as I get it. I don't know anything other than who it was.

anxiously waiting!!!!!!

2nd A mark rounding order
Tomko
JC
Spina
Newsome
Cope
Roots
Pitt
Marshack
Humphries

No info yet on the mast. They're being towed in now.

Here's the finish, about as close as it gets Philip said, between the top 3 boats

Tomko
JC
Spina
Newsome
Roots
Marshack
Cope
Pitt
Humphries


"Coolest finish you've ever seen" JC on starboard, Tomko on port, tacked right in front of JC to finish. Philip thinks that there are going to be a protest for the finish. He also things Burd/Easton are going to get an average score for their redress.

Good job! Thanks a bunch.

hey - no problemo.

Just got off the phone with the unofficial winners, JW and JC.

JW tells me, and I'm paraphrasing here...

"We knew what we needed to do... so we kept with them all the way out to the left side of the course....we were the only ones out there. We we to windward of them and a little behind them when their mast went. I mean, it folded up like oragami, I've never seen a mast fold like that. We blew all our sheets and stopped and made sure they were ok. Trip and Mike looked up at me, both ok, and gave me a look like 'What are you doing here? GO WIN IT!' so we raced off and finished it off."

JC added -
"The wind was so shifty and everyone got so much faster during the week. I think we tacked what, 6 times on the last upwind leg just on shifts alone."

So there you go, a little first hand knowledge about the mast issue.

I'm signing off now to install windows 7

Thanks Tad and Philip(!!!) for bringing the cup info each day.

10000x better coverage than if i had been at the beach watching!

It was Tartaglino who flipped at the A mark.

The mast broke near the spreaders. Early examination think that the spreader moved downward, then twisted, and then the mast tore in two front to back.

Many photos of the start with a port boat, that was hairy! Many pictures of the finish. I'll will post the sequence. I'm sure it will start a new rules thread.

More later. . . .

Thanks Phillip.

The dyneema link is basically a loop of dyneema or similar with a stopper ball and knot. We replaced all of the boat with brand new links or soft shackles. Several of these let go this week. It is the stopper ball that is failing. It will be changed. A little thing and simple. The other recurring issue was a spin halyard getting off the sheave. That happened several times and is a design change, most likely a different brand and/or size of block.

Thanks for the updates Phillip. Great work. Well done JC and JW.

Why are they using the soft shackle on the mainsheet? Just to save weight? What does a little stainless steel -won't ever fail- regular mainsheet shackle weigh? I think sometimes people go a little too far just to save one ounce.

And I had the same problem with my spin halyard until I replaced the Ronstan hoist block with a little Harken carbo, no problems since.

That's the second Alter Cup they have won on F16's, I'm seeing JC joining the fleet soon! And JW, we can ship you one out to Cali too! ;^)

Congrats and nice job guys.

Also, a very impressive job by all the females out there in the big air too! I would love to hear from some of them as to how they liked the boat.

And some kind of an award to the 13 yr. old Emily as well! Is that a record for the youngest crew in any Alter Cup?

We took special pictures of the females (11 out of 40) and the youths. I'll get them up later. JW will be heading to Houston to address youths and sailing, so I'm excited with what has happened and happening.

Congrats to JC and JW.

And thx to the guys for the excellent updates.

Final Official Results
1. Casey/Williams
2. Michael Easton/ Tripp Bird
3. John Tomko/ Paige Railey
4. Leondro Spina/ Jamie Livingston
5. Chris Batchelor/ Taylor Reiss
6. Julian Roots/Taylor Palmer
7. Nigel Pitt/ Emilee Pitt
8. Ken Marshack/ Timothy Zenderman
9. Jeffery Newsome/ Susan Korzeniewski
10. Olli Jason/ Kelly Jason
11. Haywood Cope/ Tina Pastoor
12. Sandra Tartaglino/ Glenn Holmes
13. Sarah Newberry/ Elizabeth Newberry
14. Jake Kohl/ Tom Hall
15. David Ingram/ Kathy Ingram
16. Andy Humphries/ Chris Amador
17. Greg Raybon/ Dan Rodriguez
18. Karl Langefield/ Beth Bonifant
19. Eric Witte/ Eric Witte, Jr.
20. Brent Carlson/ Chris Rothmeier
My apologies for any misspellings.

Actually, Easton/Byrd were awarded 1 in the changed redress, so they went into the last race 1 point apart. It is a crying shame the mast broke.

Should have made them match race for it...

Seriously, well done by all. It was great fun to "watch" from here.

Mike

If it is the stopper ball, it must have been the piece of line that attaches the clew of the mainsail to the top mainsheet block - encircling the boom. It is a loop of Dyneema with a stopper ball on one end.

String it up by taking the loop end through the eye on the clew around the boom, through the shackle on the top mainsheet block and around again. The loop then slides over the stopper ball. I guess the stopper balls were cracking under load (?).

The soft shackle on the Orbit maisheet blocks are on the bottom block. Mine did not seem to twist very well.

Sounds like some close racing. Awesome job!!!

We went to soft shakles because they where ment to be more reliable and simpler.

The problem is if the plastic ball isn't top quality it can crack under loading.... might have to look at the more reliable part ... i'll have a new solution by lunch time.

Great reporting and photos too.

Isn't the "more reliable part" made from titanium instead of plastic? Just out of curiosity, why use a ball at all? Wouldn't a button knot on the end be stronger and more reliable?

Regards,
Eric

Congrats to JC and Lil' John.
Thanks Tad for keeping us up to date in real time! This is huge in promotion and coverage of major regattas.
Talked to Mike and Tripp about the mast snapping on them. There is only one thing to do when you go through circumstances like they did today (drink heavily) but they were able to clearly iterate that they were clearly in the lead double trapped upwind with 75% downhaul on when the mast suddenly snapped at the spreader without any warning. They are obviously disappointed.
Chris

Button knot would be more reliable, but the dyneema is so slippery we decided to use the ball... a plain knot might be the way to go.

Well, the examination was damn near spot on. The starboard spreader moved up, not down. I was at Robbie and Jill's taking the images off the card to the computer, and damn near fell off the sofa when I saw it. Holy **** guys, take a look at this picture. Greg, Robbie and all jump up and there it was. I just happen to have taken a picture of them as they were heading out to the start line showing the spreader at a sharp upward angle.

Yeah, this tidbit is common knowlegde (at least should be in F16 circles) ever since 2004. Ronston (plastic) blocks should not be used in the spi halyard systems. Several of us have had this experience. In my opinion the simple steel Harken small blocks are best in this use.

Mainsheet ? Simple (small) shackle on the bottom and a 8 mm or thicker S-hook on top. Quick release possible (even quicker then with a shoft shackle) and heavily tested over 5 years now. Never failed on me.

Wouter

Wouter

I have tested these softies with only a double figure 8 knot (button knots are too complicated IMO) and there is no way the knot will slip out or the shackle break unless you expose them to thousands of pounds. However, any abrasion in the system (like from a stopper ball) and you should just use a metal shackle

I think I'll go put some tape on my spreader tips today, keep them from slipping upwards! Ouch!!

is "slipping" common or even possible without some impact?

i had one spreader slip down (on my TheMightyHobie18) after a capsize (or demasting, or lowering the mast on the beach) and was able to smack it back into the right spot. but it needed a good amount of force.

I don't think it's common but it might have been hit by a flying body part on an earlier capsize. Either way, I'm taping mine today!

can someone post the pic of the spreaders being out of whack? it can have phil's gooberness over it, I don't care.

these work great with a line from luff track through the center of the block to the other side and a pigtail from the tang.

I have no count on how many blocks I have ruined with the spi halyard. Oversize or steel is a good move.

That's what I put on two years ago, no problems since, but I sail mostly in fresh water.

I think the salt water might be an issue with the original Ronstan plastic blocks, salt and sand eating into it and causing problems? Or is there just too much room between the sheeve and the wheel and the halyard gets in there?

Last season I have seen all of them explode, no matter the make or type.
Just something to check a lot, it always fails at the worst times though,
like that time I had to take the spi down and the halyard slid of the block and jammed!

Was the boat whose spreader slipped the same boat that had to be laid over on its side to fix the spin block? Could the spreader have been displace during that tip-over?

The spin block failure happened when the skinny halyard jammed between the sheave and the housing. I don't think the block "blew up".

When I chartered my boat to Mischa for the 2007 T500, he put the tiniest little harken bullet block as the spin turning block on the mast. I was like "holy crap you trust that thing?!"

Its still going strong. Same one. I check it everytime I rig up the boat and its still as good as the day he put it on there.

I have put those on 5 boats and they all haven't have a problem. I guess if you decide to taper the halyard down to 1/16 line or some siliness like that then there might be a problem.

There are plenty of knots with a good enough nip to hold in dyneema. As a class, lanyard knots might retain their shape under load better than button knots, but I'm partial to the form of a 2-strand 8-part button. That's what I put in my soft shackles.

Regards,
Eric

Pic, or do you know which model?

its the tiniest little metal bodied blocks that harken makes I believe.

this small?

Is this the one?

http://www.harkenstore.com/uniface.urd/scpdinw1.ShowProd?B4RPMEB9Y98P5S


Dang, we are hijacking what was a really good thread.

that looks like it.

Also note that during the T500, I had to install a second inline cleat on the front beam to keep the halyard from slipping - and the head of my chute blew up - but the block is still ok.

We broke two or three of those on the Tornado when sailing with 200kgs crew weight (we also broke cleats and other stuff).

I think this little baby was what finally held together but things are getting a little fuzzy: http://www.harkenstore.com/uniface.urd/scpdinw1.ShowProd?409Z56LC3VXJE

Wouters suggestion is probably best if your halyard fits:
http://www.harkenstore.com/uniface.urd/scpdinw1.ShowProd?B4RPMEB9Y9AN94

I like this one because you can thread the line through the center of the block and will then keep it in a nice alignment

Tad,

Do you have a picture of the second cleat? How its arranged? I'm having a problem with my spin halyard at the moment.

Here it is goobernessless, just for you Patrick.

yeah, that ain't right.
thanks Phil

Great job with the pics Phillip. Were can I find the pics of "The Stuff", they are not on the beachcats site.

Thanks dude,
I appreciate the compliment. I will post a link once I get the pictures done. There is alot of work on my end. I have the start sequence and the finish sequence which is owesome. I will post the awards and "THE STUFF", and everything else once I get home. I'm traveling now.

Chris: its not too difficult to imagine. My spin halyard comes down to my front crossbeam to a small turning block on the front of the beam. Then behind the turning block are two cleats almost back to back.

erased

Good questions. We talked about this at length last night and this morning. Both Easton and JC boats were gone over carefully and in detail before leaving the beach for the last race. Greg feels very confident that it was square when the boat was stood up, but you never know. Two theories 1) When they righted the boat on the beach the person walking the mast up walked it up along the diamond wires as apposed to the side stay, and might have bumped it up. 2)the head of the spin in the spin set could have got caught on the spreader and been forced up when raising the halyard.
When the boats left the beach they were all on the same tack and downwind, making it unlikely that Tripp yanked it up with the halyard, as the picture showed it was already that way. So it was likely yank up in a previous race with a different team on the boat, or done on the beach. I don't think it is likely that it got moved on the beach as the diamonds were set on 33, but who knows.

Is the little machine bolt still in place?

I'm going to see if I can find a picture of the spreader on that boat from a previous race, but that is a long shot . . .

yes, on all boats. This was a freak thing to happen, as was the spin pole bridle on JC's boat.

The photo looks like it was boat #6 that broke the mast. I'm pretty sure it was boat #8 that was flipped to fix the spin halyard block. It was the race that Ding probably got redress for on Wednesday. Can you check if it was #8 or #6?

Okay I see. My cleat is on a swivel. Yours is not?

chris, the double cleats are the small harken's to match the line size of the halyard. the fair lead for the double is a harken 16 mm air block sewn to the tramp a foot or two back. This allows you to hoist in any direction. You should position the 16 mm block so that you can pull the halyard through the jaws and it's always cleated. to release you pull the halyard between the 16 mm and the cleats while pulling on the retrieval line.

Boat #6 David

We had more than one of the sheave issues, and boats were regularly being turned over for various reasons.

Here is what I have found so far in the forensics of the pictures. I have many pictures of the spreader square on the end of day 3.

Day 4 the team on boat #6 in the previous race was Jake. I have a picture of the spreader in the compromised position. There was another race before (A fleet) that I have nothing on yet, so the spreader was raced in the compromised position for at least 2 races. Remember in all the hoists the spin was to port.

Tad, Is there a way I can attach the picture larger than 100K. Send me some magic . . .

Philip: not on catsailor you can't.

email me the pics and I can upload them to velocitysailing.com to embed them here.

Here's the pic on race 4 I guess.

Ask Jake about that little block on the spinny halyard.

Before Tybee we looked over the boats pretty well and JC had one of those on the "General Lee" (a.k.a. Team Seacats Orange) the strap was torn through about 2/3 or 3/4 of the way. Replaced it and all is well but they need to be inspected regularly.

The shock on Jake's face was priceless, who knows how many times that boat raced with the block compromised, I know tradewinds and some others. Probably some races when JC had it as well.

I understand the tramp thingy; my crews didn't like the block being there. Dont understand the double cleat thing.

Just a clarification, no one "forced" anything, we reconsidered our decision and decided to make the change.

Incorrect, their request for redress had been denied and nothing was changed later, don't know where this info came from.

We aren't hearing much about the Cup itself. What are the future plans? Will you continue to be involved?

Pete,

Yes, I plan to stay on as Chair, we had discussions during the week about the future in conjunction with the youth event and JW is at the AGM in Houston right now trying to sort some things out with US Sailing. The good news is that I was contacted during the week by a manufacturer willing to supply boats in the spring! More on that in the coming weeks. From my perspective the event was a tremendous success, thanks to all to helped make it happen, Jill, Robbie, Greg, and Dan with AHPC and Fun in the Sun, Dick Boblenz with Clearwater Sailing Center and Clearwater Yacht Club, our fantastic PRO, Fairlie Brinkley, Judges Ann Newton, Judy Hanlon, Tom Rinda, and Henry Poole, Mumm for the photos and updates, and everyone else who helped put together this championship. Thank you all.

Well, let us know what's happenin'. Looking forward to D south in a few weeks.

Day 4 photos are up. I have created a folder for the start sequence of the final race. Check out Spina/Livingston going for broke on Port. It was crazy exciting.

I have also created a folder for the finish sequence of the final race. Top three approaching the finish line were Tomko, Casey, and Spina. JC was leward and ahead and tacked to starboard to set up and protect finish at the pin. Tomko's laying the pin on port and Spina (on port) was close behind Tomko. As all 3 converged on the finish, it got interesting and fast. JC now on starboard is laying the pin at speed. Tomko pirouettes in front of JC. Spina ducks JC and speeds in above JC on starboard and with much more speed than JC, because JC has to slow down behind Tomko. In the excitement Spina almost picks off JC, finishing 4 ft behind JC. Try to imagine the sequence playing out at speed, and with the added yelling. In the last image you see Livingston watching from the leward side. Damn, it was friggin' awesome. It just doesn't get any better then this!
photo albums

Album Race Day 4 includes the awards ceremony and also pictures of the youth competitors as well as the female competitors. More to come . . .

Where's the picture of Mike & Tripp stuffing it?

There's commercial interest in the shots. I've got to let that play its course for now.