US Football in London?

Hey, what the...??? Yes, it's true, the New England Patriots are going to be playing (with) the Tampa Bay Bucks this Sunday at Wibley Stadium in London!

Why?

I have no idea. Maybe it's because the owner of the Bucks also owns Manchester United?


But I would like to hear from the locals over there, your impression of American Football both before and after the game, and I know you think they are a bunch of poofters wearing all that padding and all, but if you have any questions about the rules of the game, please ask.

Carry on...


Oh, and any of you Yanks care to pick a score?

For the Brits, the Tampa team is on a 10 game losing streak and the Pats scored 5 touchdowns in 15 minutes last week, a new league record...it should be a blowout by the Pats but you never know.

errm.... that would be Wembley Stadium, Tim.

You're right though that they're a bunch of "poofters wearing all that padding and all" especially since they don't even play a full game out actually ON the pitch!

They wouldn't last 10minutes in a game of Rugby (League or Union)!!!

Ooops, sorry, my spelling sucks but my typing is worse!

I never could figure out why Rugby hasn't caught on over here. I like it but not too many of us have ever seen it.

Now Cricket? You can keep that. ;^)

Go Pats!
we were at the Irish pub last night as our bike ride got rained out and some Brits were asking why we call it "Football" as they very rarely kick it.
Any one know why?

Because "Handball" was already taken?

Or how about we re-name it to "Cripts vs. Bloods" Ball, espeicially if Rush ever becomes an owner...

Or "Over-paid, cry-baby, jackass ball" in honor of TO?

Actually, the average NFL player would lay waste to the average rugby player on the open field.

Padding or not.

In the NFL, they hit hard enough to separate the spine from the pelvis. They've had hits so hard that its cracked the skull THROUGH the helmet.

To call the NFL players "poofters" for wearing pads is like buying a sports car because your lacking for something. These guys would literally kill each other if they didn't have protection.

Rugby Union is alive and well in the US. Many colleges and universities have teams. There are also quite a few working teams (guys who are out of school). I ended my 20 year rugby career 16 years ago (Drew University , White Plains , Bergen Bruisers, Morris Old Boys) and loved every minute of it. One of my sons played for Middlebury College. There are teams in Florida too, just look and you'll find them. We even have a national team (the Eagles).

the NFL has had pre-season exebition games in london for over 20 years. i went in 1988 to a game in london.

I was at the buccs game last week and could tell they were "saving up" for London



I predict Bucs 3, Pats 0

As a former College A-side Rugby player, I can tell you that while we were tough, even ex-college American Football players were too much to handle. They have NO regard for their bodies, much less ours. Being hit by a 250-290 lbs player traveling at speed (40 yard at 5 sec or less!)is akin to being hit by a train.

We had a match against some former A. Football players during my third-year at the university. The match was stopped, as we started to run out of players and ambalances.

An ex-defensive end hit one of our fly-backs and SHATTERED his jaw and skull. He was in the hospital for a couple of months. Another player from our side had a punctured lung and I was so sore and bruised that it took a few days to get out of bed afterwards.

I could not even imagine if they had been NFL players...............

"I was at the buccs game last week..." So sorry to hear that.

Seriously, comparing the games/players is apples and oranges. The football guys are super tough and hit incredibly hard, but the rugby guys are also far tougher than the average Joe, but have far more stamina than football players. As mentioned, they are on the field for much more time. They are also constantly moving, where football is more of a series of sprints, with short breaks in between (and a fair amount of substitution).

I don't watch much rugby, but I can't recall seeing rugby players being given oxygen after making a major play (such as football players are commonly doing after running 20 yards).

Anyway, GO PATS!!!

Mike

Unfortunately it should be a very lop-sided game, one of the best teams in the league vs. one of the worst.

BUT...you never know, the psycology might kick in and the Pats might just slack off and not go all out, while the Bucks might -finally- step up their game.

The line is Pats by 2 TD's which is a pretty big spread. I'd put money on the Pats if it wasn't being played in the UK.

I donno what kind of shenanigans are going to happen over there that will have an effect on the game.

True about the continuous nature of the Rugby match. American Football players have plays that take a few seconds and then get to rest for a minute or so. Rugby players are more akin to Soccer (real Football!) in that they are almost constantly moving up and down the field.

I can't tell you how many times that I have had this discussion over adult beverages after a match. My A. Football buddies have pretty much convinced me that there are positional players in A.Football that could RULE on the Rugby pitch.

I don't know a lot about pro ball, but image Ray Lewis, who is a great runner/athlete, hitting you without pads! No thinks. How about some of the NFL running backs or linebackers? Most of the linemen would probably get too tired to handle the whole match, but don't underestimate the fitness of those horses.

The USA must have something in the water (or needle?) that breeds these monsters. The IOC considered American Football at one time, but decided that no other country could compete with the USA in terms of the lineman (lots of 300-330+ lbs mutants)needed. Maybe the Europeans and other countries could field the folks at quarterback, running backs, kickers (absolutely)and receivers, but not in the "trenches".

I would love to see a Rugby match between some NFL players with a few months training and a top professional side. Even better, a A. Football game between them.

Just daydreaming.............

Well they start them young and they grow them big, and many are on the juice no doubt. The shortest kid on my son's High School Basketball team is 6'3". Most of the Divison 1 College football linemen are huge, 6'4" or taller, and 300+ lbs.

You might have heard a couple weeks ago, there was a very good running back from (I think) University of Southern Cal who dropped the barbell on his neck while doing his regular workout bench pressing...285 lbs! His spotter actually sliped and dropped it. But he's just a "little running back", not a big lineman!

LOS ANGELES -- Southern California tailback Stafon Johnson is unlikely to play again this season after a falling weight bar crushed his neck and larynx.

The senior who scored the No. 7 Trojans' go-ahead touchdown against Ohio State two weeks ago was bench-pressing when the bar slipped from his right hand and fell onto his throat.


Pac-10 blog
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Johnson was in critical but stable condition late Monday night after more than seven hours of surgery, said Katreena Salgado, a spokeswoman for California Hospital Medical Center.

He was treated for crushing injuries to his neck as well as severe injuries to his larynx, said the hospital's trauma medical director, Dr. Gudata Hinika. Stan Johnson, the player's father, told ESPN's Shelley Smith that his son needed a tracheotomy to enable him to breathe.

According to the Los Angeles Times, a source close to the family said surgeons worked to realign Johnson's larynx in hopes he will be able to use his voice.

It's unlikely Johnson will be able to play again this season, but his prognosis is good and doctors expect him to make a full recovery, Hinika said in a statement released by the hospital.

"It hit him with a lot of force, and it hurt him," coach Pete Carroll said after the Trojans' brief practice Monday night but before the surgery was finished. "No broken bones as far as I understand, but he's got some damage in there somewhere, and they're working it out, trying to figure out what it is. ... It is serious. He did get hurt, so we don't know exactly what it is, and they're not going to know until they go through the surgery."

Immediately after the accident, Johnson was coughing up blood, a source close to the USC football program told ESPN's Smith.

Carroll said Johnson "was OK," but couldn't speak, when he left the weight room for California Hospital Medical Center. Johnson's family and friends gathered at the hospital on Monday to await word on his surgery.

Carroll tweeted his concern later Monday evening. "Please keep Stafon Johnson in your thoughts and prayers ... still in throat surgery after weights accident this AM," it read.

Earlier, Carroll said that weight room incidents are not entirely uncommon.

"That happens sometimes when you're doing bench presses, but this one just hit him wrong," Carroll said. "You can miss the rack or something. This was right at the end of his set, and he wasn't putting the bar down on the rack yet."

An assistant strength and conditioning coach was standing over Johnson at the time of the accident.

"I've seen players have the bar slip and fall onto their chest, but never in my 25 years of coaching have I heard of someone dropping a bar on their throat," said head strength and conditioning coach Chris Carlisle, who was standing 10 feet away at the time of the accident. "We're fortunate he was being spotted."

Johnson, a 5-foot-11, 210-pound senior from Compton, Calif., is the Trojans' second-leading rusher and goal-line specialist. He's rushed 32 times for 157 yards this year and leads the team with five touchdowns. He entered the season with 1,395 rushing yards and 14 touchdowns.

Johnson's absence likely means more carries for 235-pound junior Allen Bradford or perhaps 225-pound sophomore Marc Tyler when USC plays California on Saturday.

Information from ESPN.com Pac-10 writer Ted Miller and The Associated Press was used in this report.

No one could touch the American quarterbacks. In athleticism perhaps but that's the least of it. They are the result of a lifetime of selection from a huge talent pool.

Tight Ends are actually some of the most versatile athletes on the football field. They have to be able to block huge Defensive ends/tackles. They have to be able to run receiver routes and be able to have good enough hands to catch the ball.

2 different games here. The players have been chosen to fit the position. Put one of those 300+ lb linemen where they have to run continuously up and down the field and they would all be gone, replaced by a better body type individual who could do that.

As far as pads - They protect the hitee and the hitter. Get rid of them and you would see the reckless abandon go way down.

I would put The Beast (SA)up against any NFL pro if you want to start comparing individuals.

Ok.

I'll pick

Troy Palamalou (sp)
... crazy mofo ...

I'll take that bet. Can't remember they guys real name, but the question is how do we arrange it?

Need to find someone who's in line at the Make-A-Wish foundation, or get those History Channel guys who set up the simulations comparing Ghengis Khan VS Supeman and stuff.

Palu has a busted knee at the moment though :P

Man you come with a lot of excuses

Thanks for the reporting on the AC.

Just in case this was actually gonna happen, I might as well put the * by it.
:P

Tendai 'Beast' Mtawarira is his name. He is a little smaller than Ray Lewis, but is a real beast! Some NFL folks checked out and say his speed in order of 5.0-5.4 sec for 40 yds. Too slow....for the NFL.

Some initial considered him as a "possible project" as a linebacker. He is a head above the competition in Rugby, but would struggle to make any NFL team, according to those who know.....

Haha, thanks Mike. I was very bummed that i couldn't talk my GF out of the game, and crew for my friend in a race in BIG Air, but she is from Europe, never seen a real game, and 0-5 made it easy to get 10th row tickets! it actually was a good game despite loosing in the end.

You have a very large gene pool, and rich availability on nutrition (just choose the right sources). The only (ex) A football player I know about is Bob Sapp and while he is strong as an ox he has the stamina of a crocodile on land. Huge bodies and endurance dont usually mix well. In fact, endurance training will produce catabolic hormones like cortisol that actually breaks down muscle mass.

Genetics will take you far. Just look at russian Alexander Karelin during his height. 6'4" (193cm) and 130kgs. As an olympic wrestler he was able to lift and throw 130kgs heavy opponents like they weighted 80kgs. A line of such guys would not be broken and there would be some stamina/endurance as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfDDXpjFtP0



285lbs is about 130kgs. That is achievable for a lot of guys if they work strength and power. A football is definately a power sport as I know it.


There are a couple of A football teams here at the north pole as well, but the sport is not catching on. Regular football is huge..

I can press 225 now. I bet I could press 285 once if I really amped myself up for it.

Yeah but like I said, he is just a skinny little running back, only 5'11" and 220 or so. I saw a lineman benching 400 when I was in college, but that was back in 1981, way before they all started on the Roids.

At the NFL trials, football players have benched 225lbs as more than 60 reps! Power and endurance!

Yup, and there is a big difference between benching 285
-once- and benching 285, 3 sets of 10 while also doing curls, lats, etc. at your daily workout.

To be clear, the NFL test is for the most reps at 225lbs in a single set. NO stopping! Amazing!

One of the guys on our A-side in college benched 225lbs 8 reps and he was THE MAN. He was our DESTROYER. Same year, our A-side went unbeaten until Norfolk Blues beat us in the islands. We had good players for a US college. I know that it does not compare with the International guys, no more that college football (American) does with the NFL.

Stength is onlyu part of what makes NFL players fascinating. The brutality of their hits is ridiculous. They don't make pads big enough for me to let them hit me.

A football guys aren't all that tough. I once blew through the Superbowl winning 49ers offensive line without being touched. Of course, it was in an aisle in the Redwood City, CA Costco and I was pushing a large cart.

OK.........43-17 New England.

The two games are VERY different.

A football is, as stated a very "stop-go" game. Rugby is a go game whith short breaks when the ball goes out of play.

A Football had off the ball blocking/tackels and so this becomes the dominiant part of the game and so people who fit that profie excel and so form the basis for the teams; you also have vast "teams" for A-footy where as the whole rugby squad will be 22 to play and maybe 30ish to pick from.

THe only real skills that instantly trransfer is the kickers and there have been many rumours of some of the top trugby kickers being offered large amounts to join the special teams of the big clubs in the US.

they are two games that look similar in the fact the ball is of similar shpae, but they are very ver different.

And American Football is all about strategy, that's why they stop and think about each play before they send it in from the "play calling coach". They agonize for days over which plays to call, they watch hours of films of the other team to find their weak spots, then design plays to exploit them, then they go out and attempt to execute them. They even have special players who they put in for certain situations. But it doesn't always work out, obviously, we usually just tune in to see who makes the most mistakes!

I know the Rugby guys have designed plays too, and they are certainly in great shape, what with all that non-stop action, and they have to think on the fly as their coach can't send in a special play or player for each situation.

But my original thought in posting was, is there any interest at all over there in American Football? I've never heard anyone over there say, "Gee, I wish we could watch more of your football..." So why is the NFL spending the money and time to put on an American Football game in wEmbly stadium anyway? Is it just because Glaser wants to make some money on a freak show? Or is he trying to grow the sport internationally?

Will anyone -other than expat Americans- even show up to watch it?

We have been going to London for 25+ years... the Glaser have only owned the bucs for 10 or so years.. (maybe 15 now).

I seem to recall a pretty good turn out at the game i went to (20 years ago or so).. but have no idea how many "locals" there were. I had gone with a bunch of Navy guys i was stationed with in Scotland.

What I'm curious about is whether or not they'll be cheering or booing the "Patriots" :P

Well that might be why they go, to "Support the Troops", which makes sense.

Now, for you history buffs, shall we discuss how the "Boston Patriots" will be recieved by the "Losing Team"? ;^)

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=97865

Hijack.

Will they have to worry about snow in the UK? Pats played in a nice little blizzard last week and managed to put up a beat down on a hapless team that I can't even remember :P

Leave it to a carolinan to call a couple inches of wet snow a blizzard

The issue is the US national team (Eagles) is about a level below the Super 14 teams.

he is ok.. but I dont think he is a a head above the current competition......

Will people go and watch (US)Football in the UK?
If an event like that would be organized in Amsterdam I doubt anyone would bother going (maybe if the tickets where free).

True. It used to be closer, but since Rugby Union went professional to gap has increased. The US team is in fact semi-pro, they have to hold a "real" job in addition to playing rugby while the other teams can concentrate exclusively on rugby.

Some years ago I was on a Buenos Aires layover (Luiz, did I come close to spelling that right?) and the South African Springbok rugby team was staying at the same hotel. I stood next to a few of them in the lobby while we waited for our room assignments. They were big guys no doubt, but not as big as most of the NFL guys I've seen up close.

Of course, being only 5'9" myself, they all look pretty big to me!

If an event like that would be organized in Amsterdam I doubt anyone would bother going (maybe if the tickets where free).

I guess the only time we would want to go to Amsterdam is if we wanted to shop for a whore or do some herion.

Speak for yourself.

http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/

What an extremely polarised and warped view of Amsterdam!!!
It's a beautiful city with many, varied attractions.

Does Boston still have the Combat Zone?

Wouter, you gonna take that??

Hey, Amsterdam was one of my favorite layovers! It's a very clean city with lots of stuff to do and you should see the beaches with all the cat clubs! It's got bike trails all over the place, trains, trollys, very easy to get around and I never did score any smack or -crack- either!

You can go window shopping at night though...

;^)

I am not really sure what provoked you do say this, but I feel a bit sorry for you if that is your small view of Amsterdam.
Most of Amsterdam has now been mapped by Google Streetview, so I suggest you go check it out for yourself.
http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=en&am...89474&spn=0.008463,0.055747&z=15

And if you are looking for heroine I suggest your local dealer, since the use of heroine in the US is twice that of the Netherlands:
UN Report

Believe me, if you want whores and heroin, they're available right off main street USA!

Nekulturny.

Cricket is a classy game, Timbo. A game of style. Well regulated. No overpaid goons. See it at its best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9xmiaIdSSI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsOBkNi1sDM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD0U_RJDaus

The best Criket hit (or what ever you call it when they hit the ball well) was some Indian kid who drove it out of the park, 3 rows deep, then ran up to the pitcher (or what ever you call him) and laughed in his face while swining the bat over his head. I didn't know they could actually unload on that little ball just like A-Fraud did the other night, but it was one of the prettiest "Home Runs" I've ever seen.

About all we could watch for sports on TV while on a 48hr. Mumbai layover was Cricket, and I still have no idea how you keep score! It might have been too many Kingfisher beers distracting my attention though.

And what the -heck- is a "Test" in that game?

Nope. Long gone. 20+ years anyway. Now it's the Theatre District.

Pats should win huge unless they are so overconfident. The field last year was miserable in Wembley. Something about being very wet and both teams complained bitterly about it. Hopefully that won't be an issue.

Greg

P.S. Just curious why a lot of the same people that bitterly complain about Drill baby Drill being non-sailing are participating in this thread. Hmmmmm.

Less vitriol and you don't have to think. Most people come here to escape and relax.

Greg, I only started this thread because Catsailor has many regulars who reside in and around the London area. I just wanted to get their take on American Football.

If I had wanted to pick a fight with any of them, then maybe I should have put it in the Drill Baby Drill thread, but I consider all Catsailors friends, that's why I stay out of it.

Can we now talk about Religion?

;^)

We abandoned that when we left Ireland.

It's a good point and exactly what I wanted with D.B.D. Namely, an expression of ideas and to see what others where thinking. No name-calling or vitriol. It's much more fun that way!

Go Protestants!!!

Well I was reading the Tampa paper this morning, about the Bucks in London and all that, and they said the NFL is seriously thinking about getting a franchise team over there in London! They said the 90,000 tickets for today's game sold out in 90 minutes and they had to do a lottery there was so much demand! Who Knew?

So, they said there may be more games scheduled over there in the coming years and maybe even a real NFL team based over there.

What are the Local London papers saying about that?

*ROFL* Funny perception on what you were doing there and what that thread is about the last time I checked.


Back to topic, here is a norwegian american fotball team: http://www.oslovikings.com/
Apparently there is a series of games as well. Who knew, totally under the radar.

General consensus across the UK papers seems to be that there is a lot of 'novelty' interest only. Most pundits seem agreed that unless UK TV antes up for coverage rights there won't be a series - and most agree that there is very little sign of any appetite for it from those TV companies.

At this stage then it's just a curiosity.....

edit to add: Yahoo news on NFL in London

Sooo... is there no inserest because there was zero press leading up to it, or was there zero press because there was no interes? Over here the usuall way to "hype" some event is to first invite the press, for Free, to all the pre-game parties, hook them up with the cheerleaders, what ever it takes to get you on the front page. I guess somebody in the PR dept. "Fumbled the ball" there...

Still, at half time, the Pats are not crushing the Bucks as badly as I thought they would, and Brady has just thrown -another- interception!?

There used to be weekly coverage for US grid-iron here in the UK, and there were leagues set up. TV coverage died off but there is a website for UK leagues.

http://www.bafl.org.uk/aboutus.asp

Cheshirecatman

Thanks Pats

You made me a benji this weekend!

Brett Favre failed me though :P

How'd you make money on the Pats beating Tampa? Point spread was only 14 1/2, I was surprised it wasn't 35. Didn't EVERYONE know the Bucks were going to get killed?

Oh, and in today's Tampa paper they said the Bucks have a Bye week next Sunday, even the Bye is favored by 7...

;^0

Yep, spread was 14, I bet that they'd beat it.

Last time I did the math, 35-7 > 14

:P

I understand the math, you misunderstood my post. What I want to know is -who- did you Dupe into taking that bet? Only 14? Maybe if Brady had stayed home. As it was he had one of his worst days, 2 interceptions, and they still had no trouble covering the spread. Hell the Pats D scored 7 in the first 3 minutes and Brady hadn't even stepped on the field yet! The spread should have been 35.

"Yep, spread was 14, I bet that they'd beat it."

Gutsiest move I ever saw Mav...

yeah its a family pool. My 88 year old grandfather is the bookie :P

And he must also be a Gruden era Bucks fan! Those days are gone.

How'd you do on Brett and the Vike-queens?

Tim there is something in the water. Belle Glade has some of the biggest mo'fo's I've seen in high school football. They're in the middle of sugar cane country and south of Lake Okeechobee (known for quite a bit of stuff in the water).

See? better living through chemistry!

Belle Glade, no doubt, and Clewiston!


So all you Brits, what did the papers say about the game today?

Any mention of ever having an American Football team based in London? We can send you some of our 6'6" 300lb. high school kids as -seeds- to get your program up and running!

Bet agsinst the Pittsburgh spread and got hosed.

Was looking promising there with seconds left to go. I believe the spread was Pittsburgh by 4, and I *think* they were going down the field to close within a field goal when Farve go stripped and the wheels came off. Its ok, I still won on the pats, Indy, SD, Saints(double downed) so I made off like a bandit this week. Lost on Falcons, Vikings. I kind of felt that the Falcons were posers.

I kind of felt that the Falcons were posers.



Yeah but so are the Cowgirls...I was hoping they would both lose, or at least a 0-0 tie in overtime!

test is a 5 day game played between national teams

I guess the difference is work load done during a game.. The second rowers in rugby U (as opposed to league) tend to be 6'5-7 weighing 130Kg.. so smaller than a line backer.. but then linebacker is an immovable object.. Dont ask him to run for 90 minutes..

Im not sure what the average super 14 player does but the Aussie rules guys (6'6 weighing 90kg) run 17+ km every game.