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Comment on the new Nacra 20

Posted By: taipanfc

Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/08/10 01:45 PM

"it's strange to be sailing down wind with the kite up and two guys on the wire running to the front of the boat to stop it from doing a water-wheelie"

From the guys putting the new Nacra 20 through its paces in Thailand.

Certainly puts a new perspective on where cat sailing could go. Could be a case of not rushing to the back corner to hold up the bows, but more trimming hull angle to the water by moving weight fore/aft.
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/08/10 02:44 PM

Is it faster than other 20 footers? That is what counts in my eyes smile
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/08/10 02:50 PM

taipanfc: The only time we ever put two on the wire with the chute up is when spin reaching. Putting more than one adult body on the wire downwind usually isn't that conductive to downwind VMG.

And ask Scott to get back on Gchat smile


Can you ask them whether they were spin reaching or not?
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/08/10 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided
taipanfc: The only time we ever put two on the wire with the chute up is when spin reaching. Putting more than one adult body on the wire downwind usually isn't that conductive to downwind VMG.


With foils/banana boards, that might change, hence my question.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/08/10 03:02 PM

Hrrm...

I think the "New Nacra 20" that he's referring to is the Nacra 20 with the aluminum stick.

The Nacra F20 is the new boat with the bananna boards. I don't know to which one he is referring - you could be correct that its the F20 to which this thread refers.
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/08/10 03:05 PM

Whopsie, I read "new Nacra20" and automatically assumed it was the boat with all the bling and updates. My bad.
Posted By: taipanfc

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/09/10 12:29 PM

New Nacra 20 with banana boards.
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/11/10 04:20 AM

Hmm...for starters, lets call this boat the F20, not the "New Nacra 20". Nacra calls it a F20, lets stick with their nomenclature. Calling it anything besides a F20 just confuses things.

I think this boat is going to require re-thinking on the part of the sailors, namely with regards to the banana boards. Some test photos would be great!
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/11/10 01:24 PM

Ok YES THEN PLEASE CALL IT WHAT ITS NAME IS, THE NACRA F20!!!

I'm so confuse-ed.
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/11/10 01:28 PM

The new Banana 20 class?
Posted By: Codblow

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/11/10 02:35 PM

what about the New Nacra F20 , as I expect the one you are talking about perhaps aint the old F20 of which how many varities of them where there ??? at least 2 in uk .
Posted By: Biggie

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/11/10 04:39 PM

2010 Nacra F20

[Linked Image]

Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/11/10 04:46 PM

Intersting, so the boards lift so much that the boat wants to do a wheelie.

Thats pretty impressive. I'll take one methinks.

Hurry up honey and get that medical degree over and done with! smile
Posted By: TEAMVMG

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/11/10 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by Codblow
what about the New Nacra F20 , as I expect the one you are talking about perhaps aint the old F20 of which how many varities of them where there ??? at least 2 in uk .


Sorry, not with you....
Posted By: Dazz

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/12/10 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by Undecided
taipanfc: The only time we ever put two on the wire with the chute up is when spin reaching. Putting more than one adult body on the wire downwind usually isn't that conductive to downwind VMG.


bear in mind the the comment comes from Thailand where the average weight of a man is SIGNIFICANTLY lighter than of an American or Australian.... It would not be hard for those guys to have a total crew weight of less than 200lbs.

Thats what happens when the average daily wage of a nation is less than $10....
Posted By: TEAMVMG

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/12/10 11:15 AM

If this is the pre-production testing of the F20 you can bet that it will be a certain blond Dutchman and his slightly larger mate on a trip to the sun! No locals involved.
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/12/10 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by TEAMVMG
If this is the pre-production testing of the F20 you can bet that it will be a certain blond Dutchman and his slightly larger mate on a trip to the sun! No locals involved.


Agreed.
Posted By: hobiegary

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/13/10 05:20 AM

Quote
2010 Nacra F20

Quote
Design and Development, ... Head - P.Vink


Where's the head? Is that a toilet seat on the spinnaker pole?

Gary
Posted By: Baltic

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/13/10 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Undecided
Intersting, so the boards lift so much that the boat wants to do a wheelie.


For those who are not familiar with every possible expression in regards to sailing: what is a "wheelie"?
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/13/10 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Baltic
Originally Posted by Undecided
Intersting, so the boards lift so much that the boat wants to do a wheelie.


For those who are not familiar with every possible expression in regards to sailing: what is a "wheelie"?


Nothing to do with Sailing.

Motor bikes do a wheelie when the front wheel lifts under acceleration etc.
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/13/10 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Dazz
Originally Posted by Undecided
taipanfc: The only time we ever put two on the wire with the chute up is when spin reaching. Putting more than one adult body on the wire downwind usually isn't that conductive to downwind VMG.


bear in mind the the comment comes from Thailand where the average weight of a man is SIGNIFICANTLY lighter than of an American or Australian....


TaipanFC is an Ex Pat (Skip) and I beilieve a significant number of their club's sailors are ex pat.
Posted By: Will_R

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/13/10 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by scooby_simon
Originally Posted by Baltic
Originally Posted by Undecided
Intersting, so the boards lift so much that the boat wants to do a wheelie.


For those who are not familiar with every possible expression in regards to sailing: what is a "wheelie"?


Nothing to do with Sailing.

Motor bikes do a wheelie when the front wheel lifts under acceleration etc.


The I/N20 will do a "wheelie" in extreme conditions!!
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/13/10 08:42 PM

I thought that was more of an "endo" when the bows dug for clams or stuff in the back of a wave..

The "wheelie" concept of the bows flying way up high does seem counter-intuitive.... But those banana boards are a strange little creation...
Posted By: Jeff_Bowers

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/13/10 09:30 PM

If you look at the AC boats the curved boards are forward of the front cross bar. This would make sense since the purpose is to just keep the bows up. I wonder if the placement of the boards is to far aft. The placement works for a balanced sailplane. But the further aft the boards the more the nose comes up in porportion to the lift the boards create. They may need to move the boards or reduce the amount of curve thus reducing the amount of lift.
Posted By: sbflyer

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/14/10 12:04 AM

Did somebody say wheelie? (p.s. Marstrom btw, not the new Nacra...)

Attached picture wheelie.jpg
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/14/10 04:55 PM

wonder if you can figure something out on T foil rudder (or canard) to adjust the stern up & down to counter the boards. Like twist the rudder stick and it changes the angle of attack on the rudder foil?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/14/10 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by sbflyer
Did somebody say wheelie? (p.s. Marstrom btw, not the new Nacra...)


no way!!! are there t foils on that?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/14/10 05:08 PM

Here's the sequence and short explanation Andrew
Marstrom 20 w/Banana Boards
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/14/10 05:12 PM

thanks.. and WOW!
Posted By: Nacrasailor

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/22/10 07:49 PM

Visited Nacra Europe today, they were putting together the new 20 it just arrived at Nacra Europe. All were very proud on the boat. Peter Vink [Technical Director Nacra]told me that the reason the mast is not on, since they are awaiting the new CARBON mast!! It looks out of this world, it is sooo wide and sooo long, realy cool boat!!! I took some pictures with my phone which I will try to upload later. The bows are the most spectacular, never seen anything like it
Posted By: Nacrasailor

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/22/10 08:10 PM

pics

Attached picture 101.jpg
Attached picture 103.jpg
Attached picture 111.jpg
Posted By: Nacrasailor

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/22/10 08:12 PM

more pics

Attached picture 112.jpg
Attached picture 115.jpg
Attached picture 116.jpg
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/22/10 08:13 PM

Assymmetrical topsides? Nice.
Posted By: Nacrasailor

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/22/10 08:16 PM

and more pics

Attached picture 110.jpg
Attached picture 114.jpg
Attached picture 108.jpg
Posted By: Nacrasailor

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/22/10 08:23 PM

most say I was impressed by the build quality, considering this is hull #1, see the pictures how the beams are in the "bedding" really small tollerance. Peter told me that they put a lot of effort in these tolerances for stifness and in the overal build quality.
Sails looked, felt rather different, the cloth is a bit "solid", => I realize that it sounds stupid but don't know a better way to explain
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/22/10 09:00 PM

Thanks for the pics and summary.
Looks like the same aluminum beam extrusion, or is it carbon?
Seems if your going all in ,you would have carbon beams.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/22/10 09:08 PM

Quote
Sails looked, felt rather different, the cloth is a bit "solid"


I know what you're talking about. They feel more like a thick roll of plastic than cloth.... is that what you mean to suggest?
Posted By: Nacrasailor

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/22/10 09:09 PM

beams are alu, according to Peter, they are strong enough to do the job and he was rather spending his money on the carbon mast :-),
Posted By: Nacrasailor

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/22/10 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided
Quote
Sails looked, felt rather different, the cloth is a bit "solid"


I know what you're talking about. They feel more like a thick roll of plastic than cloth.... is that what you mean to suggest?


not really, what I mean is that the sails feels more "solid" like if it would be very hard to fold [they didn't let me...}. I have a N20 one design, with 2 year old sails, but my sails really feel different

btw. the sails are crosscut
Posted By: Jake

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/22/10 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by Nacrasailor
Originally Posted by Undecided
Quote
Sails looked, felt rather different, the cloth is a bit "solid"


I know what you're talking about. They feel more like a thick roll of plastic than cloth.... is that what you mean to suggest?


not really, what I mean is that the sails feels more "solid" like if it would be very hard to fold [they didn't let me...}. I have a N20 one design, with 2 year old sails, but my sails really feel different

btw. the sails are crosscut


That looks like a fabric with a much wider scrim pattern and thicker scrim threads.
Posted By: engineer

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/22/10 10:33 PM

Is anyone considering a purchase?
My salary won't cover this one.........
Would like to know how much "buying" interest there is on the F20 Carbon?
Posted By: TEAMVMG

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/23/10 07:11 PM

Is that you NACRASAILOR?


Attached picture !cid_828EF956-DB91-4D2C-89FF-B2CFDA0094CE@home.jpg
Posted By: TEAMVMG

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/23/10 07:12 PM

LOOKS SLOW TO ME!!!!!!!!

Attached picture Carbon 20 (Medium).jpg
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/23/10 07:24 PM

Any boat looks slow with no mast on it :P
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/23/10 07:29 PM

I wonder where they got the idea to rubberize the decks...
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/23/10 07:33 PM

its not really rubber if its like the infusion I saw with it. Its really like a powdercoat type material.
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/23/10 07:36 PM

Its the same stuff that they use on the Wildcat, nice for sailing but a PITA if you have to do a repair.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/23/10 07:37 PM

I don't think it is. I inspected both a wildcat and an infusion (with the decks that look just like pictured above) and the materials are quite different. The Wildcat deck tops are more "rubbery" and the Infusion isn't.. its a harder, more tough type of material.
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/23/10 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided
I don't think it is. I inspected both a wildcat and an infusion (with the decks that look just like pictured above) and the materials are quite different. The Wildcat deck tops are more "rubbery" and the Infusion isn't.. its a harder, more tough type of material.

Are you sure?
IFAIK the Infusion decks are not normally covered with anything other then some nonskid sand-like coating.
I could be wrong though.
[Linked Image]
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/23/10 08:11 PM

Aye - I took note of it when I saw it because, like you, I thought it was the same stuff as the WC.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/23/10 08:14 PM

You can kind of see it here. Different color. I asked them if they asked for it to be put on and they said no... that it just came like that.... so I'm GUESSING that its the same material as the grey **** on the F20. But, I've been wrong before.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: wildtsail

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/23/10 08:14 PM

The area of nonskid on the side of the hulls and between the beams can be colored. Mike & Tripp have this in black... it's just black gelcoat and non-skid. IMO it's a tiny bit more aggressive than the standard stuff but that probably is just their specific boat and nothing to do with color.
There are a few other Infusions out there with this too. Couldn't find a better pic.
[Linked Image]
Posted By: wildtsail

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/23/10 08:15 PM

Damn Tad just beat me.. but they did ask for it to be put on. They paid a bit extra for it.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/23/10 08:28 PM

oh ok... I was drunk at the time.

Sorry smile

One interesting thing I noted from the pics is that it doesn't appear to use the standard Nacra rudder castings that are on the infusion and the N20 unless my blindness is kicking in again.
Posted By: stampede

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/24/10 09:24 AM

hi from southern germany,
i have purchased a new f20 carbon in november 2009. thanks alot for these pic's. although currently the biggest bootshow in europe is running in germany, nacra was not able to present this new cat. When i purchased it they said it will have an aluminium rigg (same as infusion). befor christmas they decided to change to a carbon mast with aluminium beams.
I sailed the past decades a dart 20stampede. This will be my first (and hopefully my last) new boat. If you have any additional information or even pic#s from details i will love it. By the way my car is worth a small fraction of the price.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/24/10 03:12 PM

When do you take delivery???
Posted By: stampede

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/24/10 03:26 PM

delivery is sheduled to mid of march 2010.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 01/24/10 10:08 PM

you should name it "my last boat II"
Posted By: Biggie

Re: new Nacra F 20 - 02/22/10 09:14 PM

[Linked Image]
F20 first test sail

[Linked Image]

Posted By: Biggie

Re: new Nacra F 20 - 02/22/10 09:25 PM

[Linked Image]

Carbon Rig

[Linked Image]
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: new Nacra F 20 - 02/22/10 09:52 PM

Wow the main and the jib both look like crap in the on the water shot. Couldn't get any better than that?
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: new Nacra F 20 - 02/22/10 10:04 PM

I am curious how to handle the boards.
When you pull them up do you stand over them, or on the tramp pulling in the curve direction?
I'm guessing they do have to go up a bit when going downwind above a certain windrange?
Posted By: mbounds

Re: new Nacra F 20 - 02/22/10 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided
Wow the main and the jib both look like crap in the on the water shot. Couldn't get any better than that?


No s**t. "Dude! put on some downhaul!"
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: new Nacra F 20 - 02/22/10 10:18 PM

Looks like the main hasn't "flopped" over yet.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: new Nacra F 20 - 02/22/10 11:26 PM

So does this boat have to be taken apart or come with a tilt trailer? 10.5 ft beam right?
Posted By: catman

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 02/22/10 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by Nacrasailor
Originally Posted by Undecided
Quote
Sails looked, felt rather different, the cloth is a bit "solid"


I know what you're talking about. They feel more like a thick roll of plastic than cloth.... is that what you mean to suggest?


not really, what I mean is that the sails feels more "solid" like if it would be very hard to fold [they didn't let me...}. I have a N20 one design, with 2 year old sails, but my sails really feel different

btw. the sails are crosscut


That looks like a fabric with a much wider scrim pattern and thicker scrim threads.


I believe the sail fabric is dimension "Flex". The scrim can be poly,carbon or kevlar. It's designed to be sewn cross-cut.
Posted By: wildtsail

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 02/23/10 01:50 AM

Ok... you 20 sailors are going to bite my head off for this one...
The F20 looks like a refined and stretched Infusion hull...
Should Nacra take this design and make an Infusion2?
I say according to F18 spirit... ABSOLUTELY!!! If they have the technology they may as well use it.
I think the Infusion is a great but there are obviously flaws in every design.. maybe the F20 hull is better in the lighter range than the infusion.
Posted By: TeamChums

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 02/23/10 04:29 AM

Put the crack pipe down Todd.
Posted By: F-18 5150

Re: Comment on the new Nacra 20 - 02/23/10 07:24 PM

Doesn't standard logic say Add down haul to get the sail to flop over in light air.
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