Catsailor.com

America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday

Posted By: Jake

America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/13/10 04:52 PM

we're set to go for race #2 on Sunday. The weather is actually looking quite good. The forecast shows a sustained 20+ far offshore but with a steadily decreasing wind speed as you approach the coast. By 1pm the wind drops to 16 or so all around the race course area - again with the near shore wind being less. Given that this will be an equilateral triangle course (13 mile legs with the first to windward), I think we might again see a delayed start since the course will take them roughly 13 to 15 miles offshore. The only variable is sea state - the wind will have been blowing in excess of 20k offshore for quite some time.

Go the Wing!
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/13/10 05:04 PM

Jake, what is your weather source?
This what Windguru has to say about tomorrow:


Attached picture Untitled.jpg
Posted By: Jake

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/13/10 05:16 PM

windfinder. I believe the forecast you attached is for shore. Just a few miles offshore and things change dramatically near Valencia

http://www.windfinder.com/forecasts/wind_iberia33.htm

And here's a map you can click through a sequence of graphical forecasts:
http://www.windfinder.com/forecasts/wind_iberia_animation.htm

For distance scale, the distance from the point south of Valencia to the first of the Balearic Islands (the first small one) is about 40 miles.
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/13/10 06:01 PM

Windfinder uses GFS which is not too reliable, combining the forecast for Ibizi and Valancia I'd guess about NNE-10-15 knots.
Start wont be before noon local anyway.
Posted By: Smiths_Cat

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/13/10 06:13 PM

Indeed Windfinder is not the best source, but thez have at least the closest station: Valencia Boya
http://www.windfinder.com/report/valencia_buoy
After the predicted change in wind direction at noon, the wind drops to Alinghi (maybe) favourable conditions, but I guess that the northern winds will leave a lot of swell and this could cause a postponement again...
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/13/10 09:58 PM

Anyone know what the scheduled start time is for Race 2?
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/13/10 11:02 PM

no signal before 1154 CET.
Posted By: JACKFLASH

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/13/10 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by Smiths_Cat
Indeed Windfinder is not the best source, but thez have at least the closest station: Valencia Boya
http://www.windfinder.com/report/valencia_buoy
After the predicted change in wind direction at noon, the wind drops to Alinghi (maybe) favourable conditions, but I guess that the northern winds will leave a lot of swell and this could cause a postponement again...


I don't think that Alingi has favorable conditions.
Posted By: Will_R

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/13/10 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by JACKFLASH
I don't think that Alingi has favorable conditions.


As much as I want BMWO to clean their clock... I don't know that in a light air race that they would not be much closer in performance.
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Undecided
no signal before 1154 CET.


Thanks.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 12:06 AM

New story up on my site
JohnCaseyWorldwide
Mute the old guard and turn up our volume. Genny knows match racing and you all know my specialty. We had a great Virtual Eye interview that is used to do all of the race tracking etc. and they downloaded it on my laptop, so now we also have all of the real time info!
Posted By: catman

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 12:49 AM

I"ve noticed the cute cartoons from A have stopped.
Posted By: Jake

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by DUH
New story up on my site
JohnCaseyWorldwide
Mute the old guard and turn up our volume. Genny knows match racing and you all know my specialty. We had a great Virtual Eye interview that is used to do all of the race tracking etc. and they downloaded it on my laptop, so now we also have all of the real time info!


Ahhhh...now lets see more of that please!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 03:59 AM

Originally Posted by scooby_simon
Originally Posted by Undecided
no signal before 1154 CET.


Thanks.


So what time is that Central time? 5:54am?

Doug
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:02 AM

What is "CET". or better yet, what is it relation to GMT?
Posted By: TEAMVMG

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 09:48 AM

take off one hour to get GMT
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by TEAMVMG
take off one hour to get GMT


Paul

Not quite. Well in the summer anyway

Currently GMT(Zulu) is 09:23. BUT the whole of the northernm hemi is (I assume) on Summer time and so +1; Current UK time is 10:23; CET is CURRENT UK plus 1; so it's currently 11:23 in Valencia.

GMT never changes; local time; where daylight saving, or summer time is used may.
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by scooby_simon
Originally Posted by TEAMVMG
take off one hour to get GMT


Paul

Not quite. Well in the summer anyway

Currently GMT(Zulu) is 09:23. BUT the whole of the northernm hemi is (I assume) on Summer time and so +1; Current UK time is 10:23; CET is CURRENT UK plus 1; so it's currently 11:23 in Valencia.

GMT never changes; local time; where daylight saving, or summer time is used may.

Simon, you have to check which day you are on overthere in the UK but we are definitely NOT on summer time!
Current time in Valencia right now is GMT+1: 11:31
http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 10:49 AM

Valencia time clock here - live count down of time.

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=325
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 11:53 AM

Me stoopid. Sorry chaps not much sleep last night. Must be dreaming it's summer so I am better and can sail sand race again.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 12:04 PM

fuckin delays.
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 12:14 PM

For the multihull side of the sailing spectrum I dont see how BMWOs win will do us any good.
Ellison already said that his view of the future is scaled up RC44s (RC88??), that just sounds like a bad joke to me.
No I think that the guy selling overpriced handbags will get back into the game and they will go back to reducing the AC to another match racing series in slow boats between posh yachtclubs.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by Tony_F18
For the multihull side of the sailing spectrum I dont see how BMWOs win will do us any good.
Ellison already said that his view of the future is scaled up RC44s (RC88??), that just sounds like a bad joke to me.
No I think that the guy selling overpriced handbags will get back into the game and they will go back to reducing the AC to another match racing series in slow boats between posh yachtclubs.


Until BWMO looses the cup, then comes another DoG match and Zilla gets rolled out of the shed again. (Wishful thinking)
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 12:27 PM

Why does the BMWO show sound like they record it in the bathroom?
Posted By: Smiths_Cat

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 12:41 PM

<****.

Any starting time announced so far?
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 12:50 PM

From Dee Caffari's twitter:
"Well if the 33ACup does not get the show on the road by 1500hrs CET then Eurosport are out of there."
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 01:03 PM

from SA:
Quote
Race committee is 'Optimistic" and prepared to wait until 4:30pm if necessary
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 01:14 PM

Genny on SA just said the limit it 14:30, but I think she is wrong.
What was the starttime on friday?
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 01:20 PM

I think it was about 14:30 IIRC.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 01:25 PM

14:20
Improved a little again at 090 degrees direction 6 knots at the committee boat. And the race committee are now reported to be clearing the possible start area, asking spectator and media boats to move.
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 01:42 PM

Anyone watching OTWA on Justin.tv?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 01:51 PM

www.Justin.tv says 20 minutes till start.

Doug
Posted By: Keith

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by DougSnell
www.Justin.tv says 20 minutes till start.

Doug


Says that about every 20 minutes...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 02:03 PM

Commentary live now on ESPN360.

Doug
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 02:14 PM

I've given up and will watch the rugby until something happens in v. Will watch rugby on the tv on the pc and ac live via web.
Posted By: Luiz

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 02:24 PM

Helicopter sounds on the official feed. Must be good news.
Posted By: Jake

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 02:26 PM

yup - took them about 30 minutes after the helicopters lifted off to get the race started on Friday.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 02:41 PM

Jobson and Smyth said choppers have left. We should be going soon.

Doug
Posted By: Timbo

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 02:54 PM

3knots at A mark? YGTBSM.

I thought they were going to have a sailboat race...

Which camp full of asshats picked this race site? I really don't care who wins, both owners are jerk-offs and the teams are so mixed there really is no "National Pride", but I would like to see a decent race...in winds above 6 knots...
Posted By: Smiths_Cat

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 02:54 PM

time limit is 1630. if the race isn't started until then, no race will be held today.
Course is changed again to make it possile
Posted By: Timbo

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 02:57 PM

That's 10:30 am for you US East coaster's.
Posted By: Chris9

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 02:57 PM

Randy is giving Jobson a Clinic.
Posted By: Timbo

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 02:59 PM

I wish I could hear that ESPN360 feed but my local internet provider doesn't cary it. Yes, I sent them an email about that, no reply...
Posted By: Smiths_Cat

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 03:00 PM

officicial transmission starts in 4mins
Posted By: catman

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 03:02 PM

Game on
Posted By: Smiths_Cat

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 03:11 PM

start at 1625
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 03:17 PM

Postponement flag down. 10 minute of prepare. Get ready boys and girls!!!!

Doug
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 03:19 PM

Does anyone elses jerk when at full screen on ESP360?

DOug
Posted By: Smiths_Cat

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 03:22 PM

penalty for alinghi
Posted By: Wouter

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 03:29 PM


That was just a dumb penalty to incurr; completely unnecessary

Wouter
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 03:32 PM

Ernesto should have left his ego at home and let someone else drive Wouter. Wish this damm thing would not skip at full screen.

Doug
Posted By: Chris9

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 03:35 PM

I need a wing! Might be able to catch that unny looking blue boat that visits from the outerbanks.

Would be really cool to see that wing on the A. After winning, if it were me I might offer it to them. Jobson just said race coming up, they are taking a break to get ready.
Posted By: Wouter

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 03:40 PM


Loick peyron on the helm at Alinghy now and A. goes ALOT better now.

Wouter
Posted By: Wouter

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 03:41 PM


A. leading now by 70 mtr coming from 600 back.

Well made manouvre.

Wouter
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Wouter

A. leading now by 70 mtr coming from 600 back.

Well made manouvre.

Wouter


Anyone care to guess how much lead A need to take the pen?

2 minutes? Also; will they take it before the windward mark; or will they try and get one back?

Remember it's a GYBE before the WW or a tack at the end.
Posted By: Wouter

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 03:45 PM

That penalty was just stupid !

Who was that guy that said A. lost alot through bad boat handling. I agree with him on friday and it looks like that is the right judgement today.

Ernesto of the helm and we have a race !

A. is extending the lead !

Go Loick ! (Famous ORMA skipper and Round the World cat/tri record attempts)

Wouter
Posted By: Wouter

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 03:51 PM


250 mtr lead by A. and extending.

Wonder wapon the wing is not doing its magic now.

Wouter
Posted By: Smiths_Cat

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 03:52 PM

Alinghi is fater upwind now. Seems like EB on the helm again
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Wouter

250 mtr lead by A. and extending.

Wonder wapon the wing is not doing its magic now.

Wouter


They are far apart for the wind to be different winds.
Posted By: Wouter

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 03:55 PM


Quote

They are far apart for the wind to be different winds.


True but remember how much margin BMWO had in race 1 ; how much difference in wind speed and direction do you think A. need to extend their lead to over 400 mtr when 600 mtr behind at the start ?

I think A. is handling their boat better as well. Good choice to go for the small jib and not loose to much height (as the did with the Genoa)

The rest is tactics and luck with weather but that is part of the sail boat race right ?

I'm hoping for a 3rd race ! (against the odds, I admit)

Wouter
Posted By: Jake

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 03:59 PM

that different mainsail is kicking butt on Alinghi! (or they've redlined their ballast water). We have a race! It will be interesting to see them get back into the same breeze.
Posted By: taipanfc

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:03 PM

That penalty was school boy. Basics of match racing, before the warning flag for entry, don't go between start boat and pin. Must stay on your side. They have judge you on vertical lines from each start mark Being between is just stupid.

But why wasn't Peyron steering the first race???
Posted By: Smiths_Cat

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:04 PM

looks like a fuller main today for alinghi. surprising how they could improve in 1 day
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:10 PM

The A5 mainsail looks a bit fuller.
Yedi master on the helm.
Posted By: Wouter

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:10 PM


Scoob,

They keep saying Loick is on the helm and not Ernesto.

Wouter
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:11 PM

What does this mean for the wing?
Posted By: Jake

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:13 PM

what's Alinghi protesting!?
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:16 PM

Something to do with the prestart?
Or windshift?
Dunno
Posted By: Smiths_Cat

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:16 PM

lawyers back in race
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:17 PM

Looking at the plots on the Sky sports it looks like A is pointing higher a bit; but speeds appear to be similar and so the layline will NOT be the same for both boats; it COULD mean A is in fact a bit more ahead
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:17 PM

They say it is a technical or measurement protest. Who know. Now we will see a drag race. If the pitching keeps up Alinghi may pitchpole.

Doug
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:20 PM

This is going to be close........ But USA17 one tack ahead.....
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:28 PM

Doing 28 to 30 kts in 7-8 kts; Fantastic!!!
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:28 PM

Both of them hitting 30kts, in what? 8kts of wind?
Posted By: Smiths_Cat

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:32 PM

only bmwo going 30kts
Posted By: P.M.

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:33 PM

Randy's commentary is splendid.
Posted By: Smiths_Cat

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:33 PM

wider boat is faster as simple as it is
Posted By: Smiths_Cat

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:35 PM

guess it is 5kts for bmwo.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:35 PM

The small jib is hurting Alinghi. I am interested in seeing what the protest is. Oracle boat speed is killing them. 4 knots is huge!!!

Doug
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:40 PM

Oracle is walking away from them now....1100 plus meters.

Doug
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:41 PM

has the Sky coverage gone down?

http://www.skysports.com/americascup
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by scooby_simon
has the Sky coverage gone down?

http://www.skysports.com/americascup


Feckers have stopped coverage!
Posted By: Smiths_Cat

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:49 PM

its about 3min now. I would say race is over if BMWO makes nothing stupid, still I am afraid about that protest flag
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 04:55 PM

30 knots vs 25 knots...Alinghi is toast!!!! Protest should not fly. Jobson saying Oracle was one to many people today. What the &(&(*( does that matter?

Doug
Posted By: Timbo

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 05:09 PM

Is BMWO wider? Cam Lewis keeps saying that, but I thought both boats were 90' x 90' ?
Posted By: Smiths_Cat

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 05:12 PM

BMWO is carrying their gennaker hoisted but furled and draging the sheets through the water and still faster.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Timbo
Is BMWO wider? Cam Lewis keeps saying that, but I thought both boats were 90' x 90' ?


Looks wider to me too. Think just the waterline matters in rules?
Posted By: Smiths_Cat

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 05:41 PM

the rules say 90 x 90 static water line. Actually alingh true lwl is 101ft and BMWO 130ft, BMWO is 90ft wide, Alinghi somewhat less, two tennis courts. You can see it if you look from top. But now that's history. I hope this protest is nothing serious.
Posted By: Timbo

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 05:41 PM

Another 5+ minute butt-kicking, wow.

I had hoped it would be closer with more crosses, tighter racing, etc. But you cannot deny how much faster and more stable BMWO was, although Alinghi did look much better today, still a lot of snake-wake on the downwinds vs. BMWO who looke to be on rails.
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 05:44 PM

Protest does not really matter that much I think. This is going to the courts anyway methinks.

Question is what will AC34 look like now that Larry have won.
Posted By: Smiths_Cat

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 05:47 PM

protest retreated
Posted By: TheManShed

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 05:50 PM

Was that great or what!
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 05:52 PM

The upwind leg was amazing!
Posted By: Timbo

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 05:57 PM

Last I heard Larry wants to do it on San Fransico Bay, have not heard what type of boats, but SF Bay is known for high winds and I'm not sure his wing mast will fit under the bridge, so I doubt it will be on Dogzilla, although I would love to see that thing go in 20 knots of breeze!
Posted By: Will_R

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 06:04 PM

Last thing that I heard was lighter sportier mono's and a return to the proper format.
Posted By: Dermot

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 06:04 PM

Well done USA smile Great spectacle.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 06:23 PM

West River Sailing gets a plug by Jobson. He said he wanted to come race an A at west river.Sounds like he has seen the error of his ways.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 06:29 PM

Pretty awesome first leg! *Yawn* for the rest though.

Doesn't look like either of these boat could handle much rougher water though. Hard to tell what the sea state was just because of the massive size of the boat throwing off perpective, but BMWO was really twisting, and Alinghi was really pitching going to weather. Makes me wonder how long they'd last in much more wind.
Posted By: pgp

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 06:57 PM

Tim, do you still have the Jobson link? He and Smyth did a great job on ESPN360. We should all send a thank you.
Posted By: John Williams

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 07:12 PM

All F18s now being offered with an optional wing upgrade package... if you have to ask how much, you can't afford it. shocked
Posted By: Timbo

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 07:12 PM

http://www.jobsonsailing.com/

Posted By: Wouter

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 07:17 PM


Congrats BMWO

Well deserved win.

Wouter
Posted By: Timbo

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 07:21 PM

So...should we all be looking into building wings? ;^)

I would like to see Ben Halls get more on the water testing, maybe with a taper towards the top like BMWO's, maybe a mid wing slot with a better camber adjusting system?
Posted By: MUST429

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 07:32 PM

if you were listening to Randy, the cheaper yet effective next step up in performance is the curved daggerboards.
and I'd guess the ability to "Cant the rig" would be another performance enhancing mod that might be applicable to a boat that joe sixpack could someday hope to afford.
Posted By: Timbo

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 07:36 PM

Unfortunately my internet provider did not allow me to listen to ESPN360.

I would have loved to have heard what Randy had to say.
Posted By: John Williams

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 07:39 PM

I think you can get it on Jobson's site now...

Oops - not yet. Pretty sure you'll be able to later.

Cat guys are headed to ABYC later for beers and a replay.
Posted By: MUST429

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 07:42 PM

I was really quite amazed by the errors in judgment by Team Alinghi.
I mean Really, drawing fouls in BOTH races prior to the start ?

but then, I guess I shouldn't be all that surprised given the errors in judgment EB made off the water.

I am reminded of a couple of life's little truisms,

"The lawyer that represents himself has a fool for a client"
I Think EB should have let someone else drive the boat.

and

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely"
I think that EB has so much money and so much power that there was no one in his circle of familiars that could make him see that he was making SERIOUS errors in judgment.

Forcing it to a DoG match = Error
Losing in court time after time = Error x 11 at last count
Failing to upgrade to a wing = Error
Helming and judgment errors on the water = Error X at LEAST 3 or 4 that were obvious even to me.
Posted By: Timbo

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 07:43 PM

Thanks JW.

Have one on me...

OH... and don't forget it's Valentine's Day!

If Mamma ain't happy, nobody's happy!

I already filled that square yesterday, so I could sit at the computer for hours today, watching the match.
Posted By: MUST429

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Timbo
Thanks JW.
Have one on me...
OH... and don't forget it's Valentine's Day!
If Mamma ain't happy, nobody's happy!
I already filled that square yesterday, so I could sit at the computer for hours today, watching the match.


Me too, Dinner, Movie, Flowers, Candy and a Card.
She even sat and watched most of it with me this morning.
:::::Sigh::::: Life is Goooooooood.
Posted By: TheManShed

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 11:14 PM

I wonder if the 360 commentaries will be available? Can somebody post if they become avaiable?

Email sent to Gary:

Mr. Jobson,

I hear that you and Randy did an outstanding job on your commentary for the America's Cup races. Unfortunately my ISP does not carry the ESP 360 broadcast and I had to listen to the Official AC33 commentary. Are there plans to make your commentary available to the general public? I would be very interested in obtaining a copy of the broadcast, as I know others would from the blogs on the Cat Sailor forum.

Regards,

Mike Shappell
Posted By: Dermot

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 11:28 PM

Mamma sat with me watching the race today - and was as enthralled with it as I was - well almost grin

Tim, your cousin is on the Sailing Club committee with me this year - her maiden name is Bohan, and her father is from Carrick on Shannon !
Posted By: _flatlander_

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/14/10 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by Dermot
Mamma sat with me watching the race today - and was as enthralled with it as I was - well almost grin
...and mine did as well.

Here is where I'll throw in a huge "thank you" to Jake for piquing my interest in something I previously had absolutely none.
Thanks Jake for your hours of posts, glad the racing turned out so damned exciting. smile
Posted By: Timbo

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/15/10 12:15 AM

Dermot, tell her I said HI! And you can give her my email too, maybe we are cousins for real?

One of my 3 sisters did go over to visit the homeland back about 20 years ago, and she did find some of our cousins in Carrick, so ask her if she met a Jannet Bohan back then.

Thanks!

Time for a Guinness I think...
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/15/10 12:33 AM

My wife slammed the door to my office when I was watching it because I was yelling at the damn computer screen. I was soo worked up over this event and I've never wanted a team to win so badly as I wanted BMWO to win this one - if nothing else than to just stop the lawyering.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/15/10 01:05 AM

SNG race committee goes on strike against start.Anybody else hear about this. Just reiterates the entitlement Alinghi thought they had. Scroll to Part 59.
http://bit.ly/b32KXU #
Posted By: Dlennard

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/15/10 01:21 AM

I just read that it is hard to believe. I did see some cameras on Bennentt in the RC boat and he was pushing the them away a little before the start
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/15/10 02:37 AM

Yep,
I saw that too. I figured he was just stressed because of normal race decisions,now I know why.
Posted By: ejpoulsen

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/15/10 04:06 AM

Originally Posted by Timbo
Last I heard Larry wants to do it on San Fransico Bay, have not heard what type of boats, but SF Bay is known for high winds and I'm not sure his wing mast will fit under the bridge, so I doubt it will be on Dogzilla, although I would love to see that thing go in 20 knots of breeze!


The San Francisco Bay is one of the best sailing arenas anywhere, for both sailors and spectators. I really hope the Cup comes; it would be a real treat and allow more spectating than any other venue I can recall. "High winds" are a relative thing--Summer afternoons to see 25+, nasty currents and square wave in the Slot. Many different types of boats--especially in the hands of pro sailors--would do just fine. Conditions in the Fall and Spring are often more moderate, both in terms of air temp and breeze. GGYC would be a great place to bring it home too.
Posted By: Jake

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/15/10 01:27 PM

Did you guys hear this!? SNG's race "committee" aboard the PRO / start boat refused to start the race yesterday citing that the waves were over 1M. Harold Bennett, PRO, enlisted Tom Ehman (BMWO's representative on the boat) and the security officer on the boat to hoist the flags while Bennett ran the start clock while SNG's people refused to start the race.

http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/
Posted By: Dlennard

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/15/10 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
SNG race committee goes on strike against start.Anybody else hear about this. Just reiterates the entitlement Alinghi thought they had. Scroll to Part 59.
http://bit.ly/b32KXU #


Jake

I guess you missed Todd's post about 4 above yours. Are you skim reading again ?
Posted By: Jake

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/15/10 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Dlennard
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
SNG race committee goes on strike against start.Anybody else hear about this. Just reiterates the entitlement Alinghi thought they had. Scroll to Part 59.
http://bit.ly/b32KXU #


Jake

I guess you missed Todd's post about 4 above yours. Are you skim reading again ?


hah..yeah. I do have other things to do periodically.
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/15/10 01:49 PM

No you don't, stop pretending Jake! grin

Posted By: Jake

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/15/10 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Tony_F18
No you don't, stop pretending Jake! grin



I had to watch the Daytona 500! - and it had several delays due to pavement coming up on the track...so I watched sports from 5am to 8:30pm yesterday.
Posted By: TheManShed

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/15/10 03:26 PM

I taped the 500.

But I must admit I’m probably the last person on Earth to not get Cable or Satellite TV. I still use Rabbit Ears now they are High Definition. When I first moved out on my acreage it was not offered, thought I was going to die, after I was weaned off of it I did not miss it. Then when it was offered many years ago my kids were young and I figured it was one less distraction. Both kids went to school on scholarships. Now I’m thinking about getting it after all these years mainly for F1 auto racing but I still don’t watch the tube much after football season. Boat building takes most of my time.
Posted By: Will_R

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/15/10 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Doesn't look like either of these boat could handle much rougher water though. Hard to tell what the sea state was just because of the massive size of the boat throwing off perpective, but BMWO was really twisting, and Alinghi was really pitching going to weather. Makes me wonder how long they'd last in much more wind.


I think BMWO could have raced in more for sure... look at the conditions that they've tested that boat in... definitely more than they sailed in yesterday.
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/15/10 06:44 PM

Official AC Press Release, you can never have enough statistics:
Quote
The 33rd America’s Cup in Numbers
The second successive victory for BMW ORACLE Racing against Alinghi on Sunday 14th February 2010 marked the end of the 33rd America’s Cup in Valencia. As an international sporting event it was without precedent in terms of the organization.

One month before Consorcio Valencia 2007 jointly with an international team of specialists staged a global event which again placed Valencia on the world stage.

The Société Nautique de Geneve delegated the land-side organization of the 33rd America’s Cup to Consorcio Valence 2007.

On 7th February the Port America' S Cup located in the Marina Real Juan Carlos I of Valencia inaugurated the 33e edition of the oldest international sporting trophy in the world in front of more than 60.000 people.

Over 10 days, more than 150 people of 10 nationalities were engaged in the smooth operation on the ground of an event which welcome over 200, 000 visitors and which concluded with the ceremony of handing-over of the spectacular trophy crowned by an exceptional fireworks display.

TV
39 TV channels acquired the broadcasting rights : Sky (Great Britain), Canal + (France), Teledeporte and Canal 9 (Spain), Eurosport (Europe), Show Time (the Middle East), ESPN (the USA) FOX Live (Australia), TVNZ and Sky (New Zealand).
15 hours of live broadcasting to 216 territories
27 hours of special programs
2,160 million potential viewing audience.

INTERNET (www.americascup.com)
2,800,000 visits
1,200,000 unique visitors
656,000 unique visitors watched the live racing direct through the official web site
(this audience does not include the streaming broadcasting by 350 other Internet sites worldwide)
346,000 was the record number of unique visitors, occurring on the 12 of February 16,000 Facebook fans and 13,000 followers on Twitter in the three official languages of all the communication of the Web (Spanish, English and French)
More than 300 articles published more in three languages on www.americascup.com

PUBLIC AT THE MARINA REAL JUAN CARLOS 1(from the 7th to the 14th of February)
Global number of visitors: 201,000 between the 7th the 14th of February
Record: 7th of February 2007 - 60,000 people at the event inauguration
More than 2,000 children of Valencian schools in organized visits
More than 1,200 hamburgers more served
More 5,000 served plates of paella
More than 800 fondues (150 kg of cheese) served
More than 1,400 kilos of powder in `mascletás'

PRESS CENTRE
965 Requests accreditation requests from 37 countries (Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, the United States, Great Britain, Argentina, Australia, New Zealand, Belgium, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, China, Czech Republic, Denmark, the Faeroes, Finland, Greece, Hong Kong, Hungary, Israel, Japan, Holland, New Zealand, Poland, Portugal, Puerto Rico, Ireland, Singapore, Slovenia, South Africa, Sweden, Turkey, Islands Vírgenes and the Ukraine)
More than 8,000 articles were published
400 daily users connected to the Internet to the Wi-Fi network of 120 Mbs
10 kilometers of optical fiber installed
15 official Vehicles that have realised 13,244 kilometers in more than 700 services
5 official press conferences in the conference hall

PROMOTION
2,000 sq m of canvases
500 banners
180 bus stop advertising panels
1,000 1 minute adverts of the 33rd America's Cup in the trains of the Mediterranean corridor area
Continuous advertising of 35 seconds in 345 buses of Valencia
10,000 official programs distributed.
Presence in airports of Madrid and Barcelona

THE REGATA – 33rd AMERICA'S CUP
2 boats: the catamaran Alinghi 5 and the trimaran the USA
2 regattas: 12th of February and 14th of February 2 formats of racing: Windward/Leeward (12th of February) and triangle (14th of February)
79 nautical miles of racing: 40 in the first and 39 in second
24 sailors in the official crew listing: 14 on Alinghi 5, 10 in the USA
2-0, the score in favor of BMW ORACLE Racing
15 minutes and 25 seconds, the delta of first race, the 12 of February
5 minutes and 29 seconds, the delta of second race, the 14 of February

AMERICA'S CUP
33 editions of America's Cup between 1870 and 2010
4 countries have defended the America's Cup: The United States, Australia, New Zealand and Switzerland
28 editions defended by the United States: 1870 to 1983, 1988, 1992, 1995
1 edition defended by Australia: 1987
2 editions defended by New Zealand: 2000 and 2003
2 editions defended by Switzerland: 2007 and 2010
7 countries have reached the America's Cup Match (England, Italy, Canada, Switzerland, Australia, New Zealand and the United States)
6 venues in 159 years: New York (the USA), Newport (the USA), Fremantle (AUS), San Diego (the USA), Auckland (NZL) and Valencia (ESP) 1 trophy: the America's Cup
1 America's Cup

Posted By: Timbo

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/15/10 06:48 PM

4 countries have defended the America's Cup: The United States, Australia, New Zealand and Switzerland

Ummm...England?

They were the originators, right? I believe it was called the 100 Guinea's Cup, which the yacht America won, then the name was changed, or do they not count the -first- race?
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/15/10 07:02 PM

I think the Poms British only competed/challenged but never actually won.

See: 7 countries have reached the America's Cup Match (England, Italy, Canada, Switzerland, Australia, New Zealand and the United States)
Posted By: TEAMVMG

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/15/10 07:12 PM

'Great Britain' if you don't mind, old chap!
Posted By: Jake

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/15/10 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by Timbo
4 countries have defended the America's Cup: The United States, Australia, New Zealand and Switzerland

Ummm...England?

They were the originators, right? I believe it was called the 100 Guinea's Cup, which the yacht America won, then the name was changed, or do they not count the -first- race?


From Wikipedia

1851 America wins the Cup

In 1851 Commodore John Cox Stevens, a charter member of the fledgling New York Yacht Club (NYYC) formed a six-person syndicate to build a yacht with intention of taking her to England and making some money competing in yachting regattas and match races. The syndicate contracted with pilot-boat designer George Steers for a 101 ft (30.78 m) schooner which was christened America and launched on May 3, 1851.

On August 22, 1851, the America raced against 15 yachts of the Royal Yacht Squadron in the Club's annual 53 mile regatta around the Isle of Wight. America won, finishing 8 minutes ahead of the closest yacht. Apocryphally, Queen Victoria, who was watching at the finish line, asked who was second; the famous answer being: "Ah, Your Majesty, there is no second."[5]

The surviving members of the America syndicate donated the Cup via a Deed of Gift to the NYYC on July 8, 1857, specifying that it be held in trust as a perpetual challenge trophy to promote friendly competition among nations.
Posted By: Timbo

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/15/10 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by TEAMVMG
'Great Britain' if you don't mind, old chap!


Roit roit, sorry, so sorry...

"You damn Brittish think you're Soooo superior!"

Name that movie.

;^)
Posted By: Mike Hill

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/15/10 10:40 PM

A Fish Called Wanda.

Kevin Kline was great.
Posted By: Timbo

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/15/10 11:03 PM

You mean Otto?

Jamie Lee was pretty hot too, "Speak Italian to me Otto!" but that was before she started selling colon blogurt!

And John Clese was, as always, extra great!

Truely a clasic, wish I had it on DVD.
Posted By: Jake

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/16/10 07:34 PM

There is quite a little buzz about the America's Cup here at work this morning with all the non-sailors. Several media outlets are reporting on it now that it's over mad. I've been getting peppered with questions about it all day.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/16/10 09:12 PM

For those of you SNG supporters. Here's what the PRO had to say about your clubs shameful behavior:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10626650
Posted By: pgp

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/16/10 09:20 PM

It's a shame there wasn't a smaller regatta scheduled to run with the AC, just to keep up spectator interest. Something like X 40s, F18s, ( I can't help myself) F16s.
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/16/10 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided
For those of you SNG supporters. Here's what the PRO had to say about your clubs shameful behavior:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10626650


You and I both know Larry is going to pull the same Sh!@ at his venue. It's just hyper rich douche bags doing what hyper rich douche bags do.
Posted By: Jake

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/16/10 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by Undecided
For those of you SNG supporters. Here's what the PRO had to say about your clubs shameful behavior:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10626650


You and I both know Larry is going to pull the same Sh!@ at his venue. It's just hyper rich douche bags doing what hyper rich douche bags do.


I really don't believe that. I think the next several iterations of the cup will see reasonable teams sit down and agree before hand on reasonable limits to the sailing conditions together.
Posted By: pgp

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/16/10 11:04 PM

laugh
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/16/10 11:17 PM

Everything coming out of the BMWO press machine says that Jake is right. They aren't rushing to release what they'll race in, where they'll race or when they'll race. They want to get a consensus of the viable AC teams together and see what they want.

While "Uncle Larry" might be a dickhead to work for and in the business world - he was the guy who put an end to the SNG/Alinghi shenanigans. He knows damn well that the sailing community is now going to hold his feet to the fire like they did to Ernesto.
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/16/10 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided
Everything coming out of the BMWO press machine says that Jake is right. They aren't rushing to release what they'll race in, where they'll race or when they'll race. They want to get a consensus of the viable AC teams together and see what they want.

While "Uncle Larry" might be a dickhead to work for and in the business world - he was the guy who put an end to the SNG/Alinghi shenanigans. He knows damn well that the sailing community is now going to hold his feet to the fire like they did to Ernesto.


We will see, Ernesto said the same thing when he took the cup from the Kiwi's how it will be better and fair and blah blah blah.

You both under estimate Mr. Ellison, but hey I could be completely wrong he could be in it just for the love of the game, maybe he won't use the power and influence his money generates to tip the scales in his favor. Maybe, he'll even impose a spending cap, 2 billion maybe I mean we do want try and keep some of the rif raf out of the cup don't we?

Posted By: PTP

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/16/10 11:49 PM

so so so sad that Curling is on major network TV but the AC couldn't even be on some PPV cable channel. Pathetic

edit:
ok... it is women's curling which I figure might have some merit... but still smile
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/16/10 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by PTP
so so so sad that Curling is on major network TV but the AC couldn't even be on some PPV cable channel. Pathetic


Curling costs nothing to produce and people watch it. Sailing costs a fortune to produce and nobody watches it, not in numbers that pay the bills anyway.
Posted By: Keith

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/17/10 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by Undecided
Everything coming out of the BMWO press machine says that Jake is right. They aren't rushing to release what they'll race in, where they'll race or when they'll race. They want to get a consensus of the viable AC teams together and see what they want.

While "Uncle Larry" might be a dickhead to work for and in the business world - he was the guy who put an end to the SNG/Alinghi shenanigans. He knows damn well that the sailing community is now going to hold his feet to the fire like they did to Ernesto.


Maybe Uncle Larry will give all multihullers a break on Oracle license fees in celebration!

Posted By: Isotope235

Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/17/10 12:30 AM

Here's a couple of suggestions for the next contest:
1) Madate that all crew on board be citizens of the country their boat represents. I think it's absurd to require that the boat be constructed entirely in country, but allow teams to shop the world for crew.
2) Require the defender to guarantee a purchase of at least $1,000,000.00 of television advertising across whatever networks/stations broadcast the race live nationwide. Assuming a LV Cup runoff, require each challenger to similarly buy $500,000.00 of TV advertising and the winner to kick in an additional $500,000.00. Maybe then we could get at least one channel to cover it.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/17/10 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by Isotope42
Here's a couple of suggestions for the next contest:
1) Madate that all crew on board be citizens of the country their boat represents. I think it's absurd to require that the boat be constructed entirely in country, but allow teams to shop the world for crew.
2) Require the defender to guarantee a purchase of at least $1,000,000.00 of television advertising across whatever networks/stations broadcast the race live nationwide. Assuming a LV Cup runoff, require each challenger to similarly buy $500,000.00 of TV advertising and the winner to kick in an additional $500,000.00. Maybe then we could get at least one channel to cover it.


My guess is that you will actually see some movement in the national sailor direction. Probably something along the lines of a particular percentage of your team must be from your nation.

If the event is large enough (like the 32nd cup), TV purchases rights to broadcast the event. Unfortunately for us, Versus (in the US) lost their butt when they covered it in 2007 - we may be watching on the internet again until some AC racing takes place in US waters.
Posted By: Jake

Re: America's Cup Race #2 on Sunday - 02/17/10 02:22 AM

From Sailing World



"A Bit of a Mutiny"

As was widely reported, Race 2 of the 33rd America's Cup was the race that almost didn't happen—and not for the reasons with which most sailors are familiar. Struggling against a fickle breeze and with poor weather looming for the foreseeable future, 33rd America's Cup principal race officer Harold Bennett kept the two multihulls on the water until late into the afternoon on Sunday. A half hour before the 4:30 p.m. cutoff for the start, the breeze finally solidified, 7 to 9 knots from the east, and Bennett indicated the he was aiming for a 4:25 p.m. start.


Courtesy www.AmericasCup.com
New Zealander Harold Bennett was the principal race officer for the 33rd America's Cup.
However, the Swiss team on Alinghi 5 didn't want to race, feeling most likely that the waves were too high, and relayed that to members of the Société Nautique de Genève working on the race committee boat. What happened next is just one last piece of absurdity in what has been a fairly unique chapter in the history of the America's Cup. Bennett sat down with four journalists yesterday (myself, Stuart Alexander of the Independent, Angus Phillips of the Washington Post, and Jim Doyle of the San Francisco Chronicle) to talk about the incident.

Harold, what happened on the boat when you tried to start Race 2? Is it true that the SNG members on the boat refused to perform their jobs?
We had a bit of a mutiny. I don't think SNG wanted to go, so they decided they weren't going to do flags. So Tom [Ehman, BMW Oracle Racing's head of external affairds] took the AP down and my boat driver, who's also an international umpire, he shot up forward and did the rest of the signals.

Does this stray into Rule 69 territory. Would you normal write a report for ISAF?
Yes I do have to and obviously that's going to be included in any report. That's what you do, you've got outline what's going on on the boat, whether it's good or bad.

What could've been their motivation? The wind was as light as it could get and still be stable.
We had a perfect breeze the way I saw it. I had good weather information from the Alinghi weather team. It was perfect, everything lined up, 8, 9 knots up the course. And it was like, well, let's do it.

Have you heard of a race committee at any regatta deciding they want to prevent the race being run?
No. Well I've certainly never experienced it. No I've never heard of that before.

When you said, 'Let's get this race off.' They just said, 'We're not doing it.'? No reason?
Well one guy was over my shoulder, telling me that the waves were too big, that the boats were going to break. I just said, I don't believe that. I know that boat boats when they were going upwind the alarms were going off. I understand that, I was told by the sailors of both teams afterward, last night. They were taking a little bit of strain. But crikey, if the boats are that flimsy, I guess it's a problem, isn't it.

They said they were pushing the boats as hard as they'd ever pushed them.
I think the guys have said that to me, that they did push them hard.

Strain in those situations is a matter of mainsheet load, and a lot of other things. There are a lot of things they can do to ease the strain.
You're right with that. But I guess if you look at the intricate systems that's underneath that cat, God you'd only need one of those to fail and the whole thing would fold up like a pack of cards.

But they always knew that?
I guess they would, they would know that.

I don't know of any race boat that you don't push hard on occasion.
Isn't that what you do with the boat, you drive it, you drive it hard. I don't know, I guess both of them have built their boats to a, I don't know, a fairly low spec as far as strength is concerned. They're obviously very strong, if you have your alarms going off yesterday, stuff like that…

Well it depends where you've set the alarm?
I guess it is, yeah.
I said in the press conference, after the first or second day we didn't race, I had now idea where the limits where in these boats. Up until we'd had these boats on the water that was the first time I'd seen the Oracle boat, apart from one day it came past us and then went in. I'd not seen that one wound up in anger, if you like to put it, around us. I'd seen the Alinghi boat a bit, we ran a couple of races for them leading up to the regatta. I had no idea where the limits are, I don't know, but I've got a better idea now. I don't think you would be able to put them out into much seaway, it would be dangerous for them.

What kind of wave heights were you seeing yesterday?
I would've thought the swells were close to a meter. They were some quite big swells that came through at one stage. They were long; they were fairly well apart. But I think for those boats they were probably not quite straddling them. They were into them and over them, so I guess that was putting quite a lot of pressure on them, when they dipped the hull into the wave in front.

In the U.K. there's an obsession with health and safety, duty of care. Were those concepts being voiced at all by fellow members of your race committee.
No their concern was more over the club's insurance on the event, liability for the event, if there was an accident, which if I understand it, surrounded the notice of race. So what was written in the original notice of race, and subsequently pulled out, left them in a bit of a position where it was like, 'Wow, if we're outside of these parameters, we've got a problem.'

So the concern was financial and not for people?
I can't answer that. I don't know what their thinking behind it was. I certainly was concerned about the safety of the guys on the boat, if one of these things folded up, or they had a collision, that was a concern that I had. That was one of the reasons with the length of the starting line. I had no idea what we should do with the starting line. I know that for match racing, a 30-second line is ideal, but with these boats, a 30-second line is only like 400 meters. You put them head-to-head doing 20 knots, that's a 40-knot collision course as they're coming together. If one of them got it wrong, you'd have a real problem. That's why I settled on what I did, which was like 800 meters. At the end of the day I don't think that was too far wrong.

What parameters did you think the conditions yesterday exceeded?
Yesterday, that was the point that was being made to me, that the waves were too big.

It's a tough job, being a PRO. There's no real hard and fast standards. Everything is on a variable scale. There's no way of saying this is OK and this isn't other than common sense.
Absolutely. It's common sense, it's what you see; it's your gut feeling. Which was a point I was trying to make with the guys on the race committee with me was that you can't make a committee decision on every thing that's going to happen on the water. It doesn't work. One person has got to deal with that and that's what a race officer does. From my perspective looking at that, it's your gut feeling about what you think is going to happen, what you can see, and you do it. From my point of view; that's worked out fine. But there are people probably have other views about that. I did it the best of my ability and I don't see an issue with that.

Who was on the race committee boat?
Lucien [Masmejan, Alinghi counsel] and Tom Ehman were the two observers from the team. Not participating, there just to observe. Then myself, a boat driver who's Spanish, who's also an international umpire. Then another Spanish guy who coordinated my thoughts about what I wanted on the race track as far as position on marks and stuff like that. He did all the communications for me. The guys on the mark boats, they were all Spanish as well, so his role was vital. The SNG guys there were four of them, one was Fred Meyer, he didn't really participate, he watched. The other three guys, two of them were doing flags, one was doing the time keeping and calling the flags. I have to say that Pascal, the guy doing that, he stood by his post, he did the job, doing the time and calling the signals. I applaud him for that. I thanked him sincerely for that. If he'd have walked off too, we had a problem. So my boat driver did the flags on the front, Tom Ehman took the AP down when it was time and we just got on with the rest of it.

Can you remember the names of the other two guys from SNG?
One was Marcel and the other was Nicolas Grange. Granche is the cat sailor, who was, I guess, the expert for multihull sailing. [ed's note: Grange is president of the Swiss Multihull Assocation]

Technically they were under your direction?
Absolutely. That's how you operate on a boat. My role was to coordinate the whole thing and make the calls and the rest of them were to do the job.

Larry Ellison made a definitive statement at his victory press conference that he will use an independent body to manage and run the 34th America's Cup. How do they do that so that you can do your job, without your impartiality coming into question, warranted or not?
I think the concept of America's Cup Management [the body set up to run the 32nd America's Cup] was fine. It got to be an ugly animal, there was a lot of people involved in it. But the race side of that, the racing part of it, was like it's own group that was in ACM. Dyer Jones headed that and Peter "Luigi" Reggio and I were the two principal race officers doing the job, well he was principal and I was senior. There was a committee there that was three of us, plus two Spanish guys who were our deputies, that was the race committee and we would discuss things. When you go to the water, the two race officers, they do that. I think what Larry Ellison has pointed out, and Russell has mentioned it as well. An independent body to run the racing, yup, I think that's a damn good idea. You pull n from wherever the key people to take up those roles. As long as it's not all from the same country, or something like that, then you probably have a pretty good mix of people.

How do you make it independent? ACM was ostensibly independent, but we still had these questions.
I would think they may set up a company that has a board which involves people from all the teams, or something like that. That's what I would think, I don't know, but that would be sensible and they'd hire the right people to do the job. If I happen to be one of those, then so be it. I'd probably do it again. But that's for someone else to decide.
Posted By: catman

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/17/10 03:09 AM

Originally Posted by Isotope42
Here's a couple of suggestions for the next contest:
1) Madate that all crew on board be citizens of the country their boat represents. I think it's absurd to require that the boat be constructed entirely in country, but allow teams to shop the world for crew.
2) Require the defender to guarantee a purchase of at least $1,000,000.00 of television advertising across whatever networks/stations broadcast the race live nationwide. Assuming a LV Cup runoff, require each challenger to similarly buy $500,000.00 of TV advertising and the winner to kick in an additional $500,000.00. Maybe then we could get at least one channel to cover it.


I would like to see the helm and half of the rest of the crew be from in country. Strict CIC.

After watching on the net to hell with TV. No commercials every 5 minutes. The ability to play it back at will. Watch when you want. I want to be able to see everything unfiltered. We could chose the feed (commentators) we listened to. The camera work was good. I wish they would have shown more from the starboard side of USA-17 on that reach. Could you imagine sitting on that ama just in front of the board on the reach. Wahoo! To that I hate EB even more for not allowing cameras on board. We were denied so much by that move.....but I digress.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/17/10 03:24 AM

I thought that they dropped the nationality requirement because it just forced people to change their citizenship for their employer. It was simply too easy to work around the requirement.

More to the point... what does it matter?

Just watching the Olympics... the Canadian internet mogul guy jumped to Australia to board... I think he won a medal. The Japanese girl jumped to Russia to compete in pairs figure skating.... she needs a visa to go home to see her mom. I think I remember Navratolova represented the USA in the tennis Olympics.

Bottom line... it's not a big deal and I don't see how it builds support for a US flagged sailing team funded by a rich US owner... The modern Cup is not even as nationalistic as the Olympics.

Besides... We only notice winners...
Posted By: Isotope235

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/17/10 04:00 AM


Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
I thought that they dropped the nationality requirement because it just forced people to change their citizenship for their employer. It was simply too easy to work around the requirement.

My opinion is that jumping citizenship would be a blatant attempt to subvert the rules, and I'd hope that a threat of a rule 69 action might discourage it.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/17/10 05:33 AM

hmm... a birther scenario...! Show me your birth certificate to sail!? That will make for interesting rule 69 protest hearings.

Isn't there enough crap to litigate in these cup competitions?

What value do you see with the nationality requirement?.... It's not like the public knows any of the sailors, designers, builders, much less their nationality. BMW proved that the team approach was decisive but; do you have any idea what the mix of nationalitites was? They certainly did not have any affirmative action members on the payroll... Why set the game up this way?

I see this as reality tv... the PR machine can build the owners and helms public persona for the fans and they are the only ones the public will know .... at least the owner will be a country man.... so that's 50%.

I would drop both equipment and personnel limitations and may the best team win!
Posted By: Stewart

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/17/10 09:14 AM

may I just point out the "Australian" mogul skier left Canada at 15, sat out a year because he did not wish to be in the Canadian team training. Not because he wasn't good enough but did not like their system.

He now has one Olympic gold and a this Olympics silver and 3 world cups.. Is very involved in bringing new skiers of many countries through the ranks..

He also is well off enough not to need sponsorship. In fact gave the world cup winnings last year away to Haiti..
Posted By: Jake

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/17/10 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Isotope42

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
I thought that they dropped the nationality requirement because it just forced people to change their citizenship for their employer. It was simply too easy to work around the requirement.

My opinion is that jumping citizenship would be a blatant attempt to subvert the rules, and I'd hope that a threat of a rule 69 action might discourage it.


Perhaps...but you are either a citizen of that country or you are not. There's really no other measure in between unless you want to drop back to "born in". (wrote a song about it)
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/17/10 12:55 PM

One third of the Alinghi crew where Swiss, Butterworth, Van Nieuwenhuizen and some other guys all have Swiss passports.
In F1 there is a budget cap to keep things fair, the only problem is how a defender can get some serious practice in without building two boats and competing in the challenger series?
Posted By: Isotope235

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/17/10 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Isotope42
My opinion is that jumping citizenship would be a blatant attempt to subvert the rules, and I'd hope that a threat of a rule 69 action might discourage it.

Well, let me soften that a little. It would be much simpler to say that everybody on board must have been citizens since a day before the previous America's Cup was held. If a sailor possesses dual (or multiple) citizenship, he must have declared a primary affiliation for that same period. That wouldn't require any threats.

Frankly though, I don't want someone becoming a citizen of the USA (with the intent of switching allegiance again afterward) for the sole purpose of sailing in a regatta. If you don't intend to keep the vow given to gain citizenship, don't give it. Naturalization under false pretence shouldn't be just unsportsmanlike; it should be illegal.
Posted By: Isotope235

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/17/10 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Isn't there enough crap to litigate in these cup competitions?

More than enough, I agree. But a citizenship requirement wouldn't require legal action or even any investigation. Every crew member of an America's Cup team already has a publicized biography (or at least a long, long sailing resume). If a non-citizen is crewing, you don't have to file a lawsuit - a simple protest is sufficient.

Quote
What value do you see with the nationality requirement?.... I would drop both equipment and personnel limitations and may the best team win!

The Americas Cup is set up as a nation vs. nation contest. I'd just like it to be an honest contest. Otherwise, you might as well take the country codes off the sails and change the regatta name to the "Corporation Cup".
Posted By: Isotope235

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/17/10 02:03 PM

Let me preface this post by saying that I don't get broadcast television, so it is a moot point personally. I live in a place with no antenna reception, cable is unavailable, and I refuse to pay the price of satellite service.

Originally Posted by catman
After watching on the net to hell with TV. No commercials every 5 minutes. The ability to play it back at will. Watch when you want.

Which feed did you watch? Did you count the number of ads on the Sailing Anarchy site? They even had a hover-ad covering the video. With view-on-demand and tivo, you can watch and play back at will. Oh, and where did you find play-back of the races? All I found were rebroadcasts on the live feeds and a pirated torrent file that I couldn't play. And besides, being on broadcast tv doesn't preclude internet coverage. It just widens up the potential audience.

Quote
I hate ... not allowing cameras on board. We were denied so much by that move.

I'm with you 100% on that one. Remember the past AC race when BMWO was leading Alinghi on the leg to the finish? Alinghi caught a puff and threatened to roll BMWO. They had the crew mic'd and broadcast the conversation on board. At one point I heard Peter Isler (who was tactician) say "We're two boatlenghts ahead - let's just gybe". Well, the skipper decided to heat up instead. Alinghi rolled them and won the race.''
Posted By: Luiz

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/17/10 03:26 PM

"Nationality" essentially means that you pay taxes to an administration for the common benefit of a group, but more often just because they have the power to enforce payment.

IMHO nationality is an irrelevant concept for anything but administrative/tax issues. The world needs no passports, less "governments" and better management.

over
Posted By: pgp

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/17/10 03:56 PM

laugh You're probably going to need your flame suit.
Posted By: Mike Hill

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/17/10 03:58 PM

I thought they got rid of the Nationality requirement to try to help teams that could use help. Teams like China and Japan. I think some other countries could use the help too but I'm not naming names.

So it actually brought the cup to a more even playing field by getting rid of the Nationality requirement.

Personally I'm on the fence. I've seen how it plays out both ways. When you put the requirement in place it does make for a lot of fudging on the rules. I don't like to see that. So open at least you don't have all of the fudging like the Olympics. I also hate to see that our American team had to use a bunch of Aussie's. Nothing against Spithill or Coutts. Great guys. I'd just like to see Americans win it themselves.


Posted By: pgp

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/17/10 04:03 PM

I'm indifferent to all these concerns. I do think we should try to invite ourselves, cat sailors, to the party. That would give the cameras and commentators something to do during the waiting periods.

If the AC isn't an excuse for a regatta, what is?
Posted By: DanTnz

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/17/10 04:04 PM

Luiz, I'm with you there for the most part. Although I think nationality does matter in sport generally, I don't think it matters in the AC. Someone above said it's always been about nation vs nation, but that just isn't true, in the deed of gift the challenge is made between clubs. More akin to the world club challenge in football or rugby. You wouldn't expect Man U or AC Milan to be exclusively one nationality.

Anyway, if you tightened the nationality rules NZ would lose even more of its brightest and best overseas....
Posted By: Stewart

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/17/10 04:19 PM

Quote

The Americas Cup is set up as a nation vs. nation contest. I'd just like it to be an honest contest. Otherwise, you might as well take the country codes off the sails and change the regatta name to the "Corporation Cup".


I think you may find it is a club vs club event.. not national
Posted By: brucat

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/17/10 05:12 PM

I don't think that's entirely true. Look at the past events. When there have been multiple clubs from the same country (USA) in the defender series, if a boat from a club other than the host club won the defender series, my understanding is that she would sail in the finals on behalf of the host club.

Not sure that it ever turned out this way, but that has been the main concern about if the cup could ever return to Newport. Common knowledge is that it would have to leave the country, and be won back by NYYC (or another club in the area).

Maybe that has more to do with the specific "agreed protocol" for each cup, which is what the monohull fans use to drive their goal of match racing with similar boats. (And for those of you who want to reiterate your idea of what the DoG says, it's almost irrelevant when an agreed protocol is used.)

Mike
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/17/10 09:38 PM

I agree, if it's a club-v-club thing, then who cares who designs, constructs or staffs a team. Let the billionaires play...

If we're all wanting to get a shot at being the best sailor, why not consider the match racing circuit? I thought that's what it was for....
Posted By: brucat

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/18/10 12:04 AM

The way I see it, they want it to be match racing on equal-but-not-really-equal boats. They still want to be able to buy speed.

The thing is, they know it's good for publicity (and sponsor money) to have as many teams as possible, and for the racing to be close. The last cup on monohulls was considered by many to be the best ever because of how close the finishes were.

I didn't say it made sense...

Mike
Posted By: Steve_Kwiksilver

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/18/10 10:04 AM

I think we might be missing the point here :
The modern AC has nothing to do with sailing.

I recently found reference to EB having been offered 50billion Euros for the match that just happened in Valencia, with a further 100billion if he defends it and re-nominates Valencia as host venue.
Yet he fought so hard to have it in RAK, so who knows how much they offered him.
The same article claimed that Valencia has offered LE the remaining budget of 100billion Euros to host it there - which is why he said in his interview "It`s a great place for sailing: (7knots and 2 deg C, I could find better places..), and is considering it as an option. He will choose the venue that pays the most. Reference to "having enough space for the teams bases" is an excuse, 100billion Euros can buy a lot of space.
I`ll say it again - The AC has nothing to do with sailing, and everything to do with how to become the Defender, because countries will pay a lot of money to host a high-profile event, and the DoG says the Defender chooses the venue, so there is a lot of power there.

My take on how stupid Alinghi was to lose the cup : They fought hard for a Northern Hemisphere venue in winter, which is clear in the DoG it should be a Southern Hemisphere event.
Had they selected Cape Town or Australia in February, all they needed to do to win the cup was to arrive in an Orma 60 and sail in the predominant summer conditions these places have, which is seldom under 20-25knots with 3,5m swell.(When windguru forecasts 17knots for Cape Town, it averages 17, ie 12 gusting 23) My guess is that it would then be BOR who would request wind limits, and not get them, since both teams should bring seaworthy yachts to a race sailed on the sea.
Posted By: DanTnz

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/18/10 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Steve_Kwiksilver
I think we might be missing the point here :
The modern AC has nothing to do with sailing.

I recently found reference to EB having been offered 50billion Euros for the match that just happened in Valencia, with a further 100billion if he defends it and re-nominates Valencia as host venue.
Yet he fought so hard to have it in RAK, so who knows how much they offered him.
The same article claimed that Valencia has offered LE the remaining budget of 100billion Euros to host it there - which is why he said in his interview "It`s a great place for sailing: (7knots and 2 deg C, I could find better places..), and is considering it as an option. He will choose the venue that pays the most. Reference to "having enough space for the teams bases" is an excuse, 100billion Euros can buy a lot of space.
I`ll say it again - The AC has nothing to do with sailing, and everything to do with how to become the Defender, because countries will pay a lot of money to host a high-profile event, and the DoG says the Defender chooses the venue, so there is a lot of power there.

My take on how stupid Alinghi was to lose the cup : They fought hard for a Northern Hemisphere venue in winter, which is clear in the DoG it should be a Southern Hemisphere event.
Had they selected Cape Town or Australia in February, all they needed to do to win the cup was to arrive in an Orma 60 and sail in the predominant summer conditions these places have, which is seldom under 20-25knots with 3,5m swell.(When windguru forecasts 17knots for Cape Town, it averages 17, ie 12 gusting 23) My guess is that it would then be BOR who would request wind limits, and not get them, since both teams should bring seaworthy yachts to a race sailed on the sea.


Steve, I like the second bit of your post, I especially like using something like an ORMA 60, they could easily match race, just check out the youtube vids of the ORMA series. They even feature on the AC computer game (which is really good!)

The first part of your post however is grade A bulls**t, 100 billion euro amounts to 10% of Spain's GDP, i.e. five times more than the size of their agriculture budget or their spend on defence. There is no way Valencia are going to come up with that kind of money, especially now that Spain is crippled by debt. 100 million, though, in case you mistyped, I could believe.
Posted By: Steve_Kwiksilver

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/18/10 11:10 AM

"100 million, though, in case you mistyped, I could believe."
You could be right, might have been million, not billion.
My point is still that money drives it - the boats and the races were just a way to get at controlling the money. Pity I can`t find that article again, must make a note to remember on which websites I read stuff.
My reference to the Orma 60 was just that, if Alinghi wanted to win the event, they could just have chosen a high wind venue and a boat that is moded to suit, in the southern hemisphere which is deed compliant, as they knew what BOR was bringing to the match, which is NOT a heavy air and big seastate boat. They had the advantage of being able to choose a venue after knowing what BOR looked like, surely they could see it would not cope with high winds? Instead they designed a boat that was even worse in that regard, and then squabbled their venue-choosing rights away. I really don`t get their thinking.
As an aside, could someone explain WHY Valencia was more deed-compliant than RAK ? I`m confused on this one. As far as I can read into the DoG (without all the amendments), the only stipulation is that it be a Southern Hemisphere event at the time of year it was held. I don`t get where, in the DoG, the challenger has the right to contest where the venue is held, assuming there is no mutual consent in these decisions.
Posted By: Steve_Kwiksilver

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/18/10 11:12 AM

Mitch Booth makes the case for multi`s in future AC :
http://www2.worldpub.net/images/sw/4-SWPodcast100214.mp3
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/18/10 02:41 PM

okay, so if you want nation / club participation, you'd probably want an affordable (less than $5M) boat that doesn't take too many crew (less than 8 per boat) so you don't have to fork over big money to house/feed/train. If the price is right, you can have multiple entries from a nation/club.

You'd also want some sort of match series or circuit that would draw the clubs/nations in. Maybe like the LV series, but different venues over the course of a year or two (so the boats/teams would have to handle a wide variety of conditions), with the final year being a points/elimination finale leading up to the AC match. The different venues would draw spectators & money to the series and locations, improving relations....

If you want thrills & chills you need boats that can move and cross, bump & run, and can be fixed quickly

If you want spectators, you need fast boats that can work on small courses where viewers can get up close.

Sounds like some variant of the VX 40s to me, doesn't it?
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/18/10 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
okay, so if you want nation / club participation, you'd probably want an affordable (less than $5M) boat that doesn't take too many crew (less than 8 per boat) so you don't have to fork over big money to house/feed/train. If the price is right, you can have multiple entries from a nation/club.

You'd also want some sort of match series or circuit that would draw the clubs/nations in. Maybe like the LV series, but different venues over the course of a year or two (so the boats/teams would have to handle a wide variety of conditions), with the final year being a points/elimination finale leading up to the AC match. The different venues would draw spectators & money to the series and locations, improving relations....

If you want thrills & chills you need boats that can move and cross, bump & run, and can be fixed quickly

If you want spectators, you need fast boats that can work on small courses where viewers can get up close.

Sounds like some variant of the VX 40s to me, doesn't it?


I proposed exactly that some time ago....
Posted By: Wouter

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/18/10 04:03 PM


VX40's

We can have in a event organised in a year and welcome easily 10 AC teams.

These boats have been tested and proven by know and will blow the doors off the AC5's mono's for a fraction of the cost.

Then later open de boxrule a little and allow for more development.

Wouter
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/18/10 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by scooby_simon
I proposed exactly that some time ago....


So, basically, you're telling me I'm living in the past ... smile Oh, your time zone is ahead of mine, so you're really just living in the future....
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/18/10 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by scooby_simon
I proposed exactly that some time ago....


So, basically, you're telling me I'm living in the past ... smile Oh, your time zone is ahead of mine, so you're really just living in the future....


Always looking forward.... grin
Posted By: DanTnz

Re: Suggestions for the next America's cup: - 02/18/10 09:15 PM

For me both the VX40 or another AC5 type design would be boring. The AC should be at the cutting edge, there's not many events in sailing that are (design wise). That Mitch Booth interview kinda implied he favoured a catamaran box rule. I personally would like to see a box rule that allowed cats, tris, foilers, whatever, but with a greater range of allowable sea and wind states. If costs were an issue, just introduce a few restrictions, almost like a giant NZMYC Open 8.5 Rule.

Using an existing class for the AC would reduce it as a spectacle.

Still, we all know it's going to raced in monohulls though don't we? Lets not kid ourselves.
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